Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: A Simple and Clean Finish

[King Marth 64]

I was kinda wondered what Final Fantasy VII charaters will might appear in the Spirit Board when Sephiroth comes on the specific date in this month? I am not too sure if they're going to use the original Final Fantasy VII artworks or go with the Final Fantasy VII Remake artworks for Final Fantasy VII DLC Spirit Board since we know that Cloud only used his Ultimate artworks while the Dragon Quest content did used their artworks from their games.

I'm kinda wondered if Sakurai might going to use the Final Fantasy VII Remake artworks for Final Fantasy VII DLC Spirit Board and the Spirits since might only put Cloud's team from Midgar arc as Tifa, Barret, Aerith, and Red since the others like Yuffie, Cait Sith, Cid, and Vincent weren't involved in Part 1 as we know that could be not show up in the Spirit Board? Also, I do think Sakurai could put the Avalanche trio Biggs, Wedge, and Jessie be grouped together since Final Fantasy Vii Remake Team did managed to gave them involved more in the story and maybe Zack Fairs in it as well.

Edited December 12, 2020 by King Marth 64

[Lightcosmo]

1 hour ago, eclipse said:

Except when you do see him, it's mostly to needle Cloud.  So I'd say both interpretations are correct!

Now, as for the One-Winged Annoyance. . .not sure if he'll be my play style, but I think having  a little more reach on his, erm. weapon is a point in his favor.  In terms of swordsmen, that is.

Yeah that's true, but sadly they dont give you just enough, but considering they kinda rushed it, I suppose they deserve a break. The fans couldn't be patient enough, sadly. 

 

[Jotari]

8 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Can we talk about Sephiroth stalking Cloud into Smash Bros being the most in-character thing ever?

Doc main here, we always find a way with our stubby little arms and Ganondorf level speed.

That's what I was thinking when his wing sprouted in the trailer after taking hits. But I love in jrpgs when they enter "pissy boss mode" at half health. And in general I'm anticipating him to be pretty slow with his dramatic animations and walking around seemingly in slow motion. In this game they've been pretty good about giving characters with absurd range really low movement speed with Byleth, Min Min, Simon, etc. 

In character for Advent Children Sephiroth. OG Sephiroth barely even knew who Cloud was.

[omegaxis1]

7 minutes ago, Jotari said:

In character for Advent Children Sephiroth. OG Sephiroth barely even knew who Cloud was.

Apart from the mere human that actually beat him. And someone that Sephiroth could enjoy making suffer the same pain that Sephiroth felt. 

Then Cloud ended up overcoming that pain and Sephiroth hated Cloud for it, hating that a human could overcome a pain that Sephiroth hasn't gotten over.

[Interdimensional Observer]

13 minutes ago, Jotari said:

OG Sephiroth barely even knew who Cloud was.

True, considering...

Spoiler

...Cloud was a nobody Shinra grunt who literally backstabbed Sephiroth once and that was their first significant interaction, everything else was Zack. Even factoring in whatever seeing Sephiroth does of Cloud via his Jenova proxy during the story in progress, it doesn't amount to a whole lot. Cloud thinks more of it than it actually was (okay, Zack and Tifa got badly wounded), because of the Jenova cells in him messing with his mind.

 

Edited December 13, 2020 by Interdimensional Observer

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

True, considering...

  Hide contents

...Cloud was a nobody Shinra grunt who literally backstabbed Sephiroth once and that was their first significant interaction, everything else was Zack. Even factoring in whatever seeing Sephiroth does of Cloud via his Jenova proxy during the story in progress, it doesn't amount to a whole lot. Cloud thinks more of it than it actually was (okay, Zack and Tifa got badly wounded), because of the Jenova cells in him messing with his mind.

 

If anything Cloud is the one literally and figuratively (and like psychomagically) stalking Sephiroth in Final Fantasy VII.

Fun fact, Sephiroth never once speaks throughout the course of Final Fantasy VII. We see him speak in flashbacks set before the game, and Jenova disguised as him speaks, but Sephiroth himself never once has a line in the course of the story.

Edited December 13, 2020 by Jotari

[Lord_Brand]

All this talk about stalking and obsession reminds me of why Garland is my favorite Final Fantasy villain. No complex corporate conspiracies, no aliens, no psychological manipulation, no leather coat or fallen angel fetishes...just a badass knight in a full suit of armor with a baritone voice, a transforming greatsword, and elemental powers who kidnapped a princess (granted, he was obsessed with her, but they didn't spend the whole story focusing on that), tried to knock the Warriors of Light down, and created the Four Fiends. I know Sephiroth is the FF villain everyone expects, but Garland is the one I want. To me, he is the Bowser, the Ganon, of FF. He is the Final Fantasy villain. And my FF itch won't truly be scratched until he and the Warriors of Light are added to Smash as playable fighters (I won't complain if Princess Sarah is as well, though I realize she's more likely to just get a Spirit with Zelda or Palutena as her fighter).

But in the meantime, I'll have fun giving Sephiroth a go, pitting him against Cloud, Ganondorf, Link, etc. And of course I gotta kick his arse with everyone in the trailer at least once to vindicate them! Especially my boy Link.

[Lightcosmo]

1 hour ago, Lord_Brand said:

Especially my boy Link.

^ the best kind of fans, the dedicated ones!

[vanguard333]

On 12/13/2020 at 3:46 PM, Lord_Brand said:

But in the meantime, I'll have fun giving Sephiroth a go, pitting him against Cloud, Ganondorf, Link, etc. And of course I gotta kick his arse with everyone in the trailer at least once to vindicate them! Especially my boy Link.

This makes me wonder what competitive banter between Ganondorf and Sephiroth would look like:

Ganondorf: I'm the more iconic villain of the 5th console generation! I actually conquered Hyrule for seven years!

Sephiroth: I actually killed one of the main supporting characters. Tell me, how alive and well was Zelda at the end of Ocarina of Time?

Ganondorf: If I had wanted to kill her, she would've been dead.

Sephiroth: You mean like that nothing mere mortal in a floppy green hat that you impaled in the forehead? Oh, wait; he did that to you!

Ganondorf: There is nothing "mere" about that mortal. And what about you? Getting backstabbed by some nothing grunt and then beaten by him again.

Sephiroth: He could do nothing to truly kill me; I am the son of Jenova!

Ganondorf: You were made in a lab by a mad fool; nothing but a lab-made boy with cells from a parasite spliced into your body.

Sephiroth: And what of you? As I understand, you're from an all-female tribe that has to find males among Hylians. You're just the son of a desert thief and some random Hylian. 

 

…I probably went overboard with this; didn't I? 

Edited December 17, 2020 by vanguard333

[Lord_Brand]

Dialogue can be fun to write! Speaking of, now I kinda want Gilgamesh to join the roster in the future, simply because of the comedy gold his Palutena's Guidance could offer. My take:

Spoiler

Gilgamesh: Butz of the Wind! We meet again!

Pit: W...What did you just call me!?

Viridi: Pfff...*uncontrollable laughter*

Gilgamesh: Oh, sorry! I mistook you for someone else. Butz - I mean...Bartz, my one true rival! He's a Warrior of Light who saved his world from my former boss, the evil Exdeath.

Pit: Warrior of Light? That sounds cool!

Gilgamesh: Long have I wished to see him again, that we may have yet another fine duel. Forgive me, introductions are in order. I am Gilgamesh, traveler of the Rift, collector of fine swords.

Pit: My name's Pit, angel of Skyworld, Champion of the Goddess Palutena!

Gilgamesh: Well met, winged warrior! Tell me, have you by chance seen Bartz around here? He's a young man with hair much like yours who rides on a large yellow bird called a chocobo and wears a variety of different outfits.

Pit: Er...Palutena, you know if they've added anyone like that to this game yet?

Palutena: Not at this time, but fans are always hungry for more fighters, so it's possible he may show up sooner or later.

Viridi: In the meantime, why not entertain yourself by beating up on poor Butz - sorry, Pit here?

Pit: Hey!

Gilgamesh: Very well! Your angelic friend shall make a fine sparring partner!

Pit: Hmph. With "friends" like her, I don't need enemies...

Gilgamesh: Enough banter! The time has come to fight like men! And ladies! And angels who look like ladies!

Pit: HEY!!!

Gilgamesh: For Gilgamesh...IT IS SMASHING TIME!!!

Not to mention, Gilgamesh could have secret taunts for fighters who use swords.

Spoiler

• Link - "The Master Sword...the Blade of Evil's Bane, the Sword that Seals the Darkness. Truly a match even for the magnificent Excalibur!"
• Ganondorf - "That Gerudo sword...such weight, such power! Why don't you use it more often?"
• Young Link - "The Kokiri Sword...should a kid really be running around with a sharp blade like that!?"
• Marth - "The Falchion...bane of dragons, legacy of the Altean royal family! Reminds me of the Wyrmkiller."
• Lucina/Chrom - "The Falchion...it looks different, but its dragon-slaying power is unmistakable."
• Roy - "The Binding Blade...the sword that sealed the legendary Manakete Idunn and blazes with a fierce flame all its own. Be careful with that thing, or you'll hurt yourself!"
• Meta Knight - "Galaxia...the sword of Meta Knight, hero and part-time conqueror of Pop Star. It may be tiny, but it packs a punch! Just like the guy who wields it..."
• Ike - "Ragnell...the twin blade of Alondite, the only weapons capable of harming the Black Knight. Its Aether is great indeed!"
• Toon Link - "The Master Sword...but it looks different. It's shorter, stubbier. Kinda like the little guy who's wielding it."
• Shulk - "The Monado...a blade that foretells the future itself. Ooh, and it has an energy blade like the Ultima Weapon! So cool!"
• Cloud - "The Buster Sword...you could chop a Behemoth in half with that thick blade!"
• Cloud (Advent Children) - "That sword...it looks like the Buster Sword, but it's a bunch of smaller swords combined together. A homage, perhaps?"
• Mii Swordfighter - "That weapon you're holding...it's not a bad likeness, but I can tell it's not the genuine article. A for effort, though!"
• Hero (Luminary) - "The Sword of Light...wielded by the Luminary. I hear there are actually two. Could one of them be a fake?"
• Hero (Erdrick) - "The Sword of Kings...brimming with the power of wind. Kaswoosh!"
• Hero (Solo) - "The Zenithian Sword...forged by the Zenithians from whom this Hero descends. Make sure to get the full equipment set!"
• Hero (Eight) "The Dragovian king sword...brimming with the power of lightning. Kazap!"
• Byleth - "The Sword of the Creator...formed from a dragon's bones. These Fire Emblem guys sure do love their dragons, don't they?"
• Sephiroth - "Sephiroth's Masamune...the longest sword I've ever seen! Where do you keep it sheathed, anyway?"

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Lord_Brand

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Sakurai likes to gush about the reference material in these things. I hope there isn't a heartbreaking moment where he encourages us to "watch the movie to compare" because he couldn't secure the rights to show clips. Maybe he'll make it up to us with his stack of FF7 materials. Dude owns everything.

I'm really hoping for a Cloud mii costume. I know such an inclusion sounds super redundant, but there's no character I'd rather be playing as against the flood of Clouds and Sephiroths. It's like those special moments where I'm playing as "Chrum" and get matched against Chrom. 

[Lord_Brand]

If they were to make a Cloud costume, I'd want there to be a new kind of Mii Fighter for two-handed weapons to receive it, because the current Swordfighter wields the sword with such little weight that it'd look just plain goofy, as if the mini Buster Sword was made of plastic or styrofoam.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

1 hour ago, Lord_Brand said:

If they were to make a Cloud costume, I'd want there to be a new kind of Mii Fighter for two-handed weapons to receive it, because the current Swordfighter wields the sword with such little weight that it'd look just plain goofy, as if the mini Buster Sword was made of plastic or styrofoam.

If you ask me, that criticism has always applied to Cloud. How does this scrawny guy wave and spin that thing around like a baton? Plus Swordfighter is already plenty sluggish in his own right. He certainly doesn't feel weightless to me.

Edited December 16, 2020 by Glennstavos

[Lord_Brand]

At least Cloud wields it with two hands. Though wielding a weapon is as much a matter of weight as strength; even if you are strong enough to lift and wield the Buster Sword, if your body weight is lower than that of the sword's, especially once kinetic force is factored in, it'll be swinging you around more than vice versa. So, it's really a matter of Cloud being heavy enough to swing the Buster Sword without being pulled off the ground by it.

It's like the classic gatling gun scenario; even if you are strong enough to carry and operate a firearm capable of firing hundreds of rounds a minute, unless you weigh as much as a car, the sheer kickback caused by firing so many bullets so quickly will knock you on your ass. There's a reason those things are mounted on vehicles in real life.

Even with video game logic, for me it would just look wrong for a mini-Cloud to flip the Buster Sword into the air like a pancake while doing a little twirl before catching it. I know they aren't going to bother adding a new Mii Fighter before Smash 6, so Swordfighter is the best option at this point, but dammit, it just won't feel right to me.

At any rate, I'd sooner expect Tifa and Barret costumes, as they map quite handily to Brawler and Gunner.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

7 minutes ago, Lord_Brand said:

So, it's really a matter of Cloud being heavy enough to swing the Buster Sword without being pulled off the ground by it.

Not that I especially think it matters, but these two are the same height and weight in game. And the hilariously large swords of previous outfits, like Black Knight's alondite or Rex's girlfriend have been shrunk in appearance. I wouldn't expect Mii's buster sword to literally be the size of Cloud's, since it just wouldn't fit Swordfighter's shorter hitboxes.

 

[Lord_Brand]

Well of course it's going to be shrunk. But the way the Swordfighter handles the sword just won't feel right for a two-handed weapon. I have the same issue with the Black Knight, incidentally. Rex & Pyra, I'm willing to give a pass since the majority of the blade is made of plasma.

Anyway, tomorrow Sakurai presents Sephiroth. Make sure to tune in, everyone!

[Jotari]

5 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

If they were to make a Cloud costume, I'd want there to be a new kind of Mii Fighter for two-handed weapons to receive it, because the current Swordfighter wields the sword with such little weight that it'd look just plain goofy, as if the mini Buster Sword was made of plastic or styrofoam.

Well we have seen that before.

 

[Lightchao42]

4 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

If you ask me, that criticism has always applied to Cloud. How does this scrawny guy wave and spin that thing around like a baton?

Mako and Jenova cells, probably.

As one last prediction/wish, if Sephiroth's victory theme is derived from One-Winged Angel, I hope the announcer's "The winner is... Sephiroth!" syncs up with when his name is said in the song. Details like that make the game feel more special.

[Perkilator]

1 minute ago, Lightchao42 said:

As one last prediction/wish, if Sephiroth's victory theme is derived from One-Winged Angel, I hope the announcer's "The winner is... Sephiroth!" syncs up with when his name is said in the song. Details like that make the game feel more special.

Even better; for the victory screen, get rid of the announcer entirely and just have the choir shout his name.

[vanguard333]

5 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

If you ask me, that criticism has always applied to Cloud. How does this scrawny guy wave and spin that thing around like a baton? Plus Swordfighter is already plenty sluggish in his own right. He certainly doesn't feel weightless to me.

It is a good point about Cloud using the Buster Sword; not only would he need superhuman strength, he would also need his tendons to be super-durable so they don't snap when he swings the sword, and he would need superhuman weight to keep from being swung around by the momentum of his own weapon. The first two can easily be explained with the Jenova cells and Mako bath, but that last one can't really, and we never see Cloud struggle with elevators or show any other signs of being a lot heavier than a normal human. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by vanguard333

[Zapp Branniglenn]

These days it's just "[character] WINS!!". Huh, it just occurred to me that they made that change with Ultimate. You're always hearing the character's name first thing while it's still fading in. 

[King Marth 64]

7 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

If they were to make a Cloud costume, I'd want there to be a new kind of Mii Fighter for two-handed weapons to receive it, because the current Swordfighter wields the sword with such little weight that it'd look just plain goofy, as if the mini Buster Sword was made of plastic or styrofoam.

I do think the Sephiroth Direct will might reveal the Tifa Mii Brawler Outfit and Barret Mii Gunner Outfit along with the Chocobo Costume and Geno Costume returning from Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U. I am not entirely sure if they're going to show off some Mii FIghter costumes from the other Final Fantasy games in the Mii Fighter Costume Round 8 DLC Batch?

Edited December 17, 2020 by King Marth 64

[Lord_Brand]

While I would love to see the Light Warriors as playable characters, I would also enjoy seeing a lot of Final Fantasy costumes for Mii Fighters. The style of older Final Fantasy characters would make them ideal for Mii proportions:

• Brawler - Monk, Sabin, Tifa, Zell
• Gunner - Edgar, Barret, Vincent, Irvine, Laguna
• Swordfighter - Warrior, Red Mage, Dark Knight Cecil, Paladin Cecil, Squall Leonhart, Adelbert Steiner

Supposedly, Chocobo was actually the top-requested third-party character for Melee. I do think a Chocobo & Moogle duo similar to Duck Hunt or Banjo & Kazooie could be cute. Gotta have the mascots in there! Their alternate skins could be costumes referencing Final Fantasy classes, like Knight, Thief, Black Mage, White Mage, Red Mage, Monk, and Ninja. The more I think about it, the more I really want that. Might just have to swing by the "create a  fighter and moveset" thread...

[Perkilator]

I made a pretty interesting thread:

Make your own roster(s) out of complete bias - Super Smash Bros. - Serenes Forest Forums

[Fabulously Olivier]

Oh, God. They held back the Geno Mii costume this whole time to not even give it the obvious/deserved premium mii costume treatment. This isn't going to go over well! 😂