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Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: The King of Iron Smash

Now that Ultimate has been out for a while, who is your favorite newcomer?  

67 members have voted

  1. 1. Who is your favorite base game (and Piranha Plant) newcomer?

  2. 2. Who is your favorite new Echo Fighter?

  3. 3. Who is your favorite Fighters Pass 1 character?



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5 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

My friend and I were brainstorming a cavalry unit in Smash. The character could fight mounted or dismounted, with the mounted moveset being much less varied but more about hit and run style gameplay. Maybe have some of that movement and attacking are both independent of each other style of gameplay you see on Min Min, Steve, etc. And no access to grabs. When you press the grab button your Horse just whinnies in confusion. 

Altogether I think being able to punch a horse in Smash wouldn't be as well received as punching a wyvern or even pegasus, but I like the idea of needing to mount up with Down B, then the horse disappears whenever you're launched in the air (launched as in hit hard enough to get sent into the tumble state) and the character remains 'dismounted' until they can mount up again upon reaching the ground. Just can't figure out how recovery works. If the character were still mounted, the Up B could be the horse throwing its rider off its back into the air, good for continuing an air combo too. But an already dismounted rider, what do they do? Helicopter lance? Not a lot of options.

I was thinking a cavalry fighter could spawn on their mount but be knocked off the mount by an attack. Frederick, for example, would start on a horse, giving him some extra weight and power, but if struck hard enough he'll be knocked off, leaving him on his feet. Additionally, the mounts themselves can be dealt damage, causing them to run away if they take too much. If anyone other than the trusted rider tries to get on a mount, they'll be bucked off. The mount might even kick enemy fighters who get too close. The rider can Whistle to call their mount to their side or to summon them after they've recovered, but if the mount is injured, the whistle will not work. While mounted, the rider can use D Special to Dismount.

Mounted fighters can crouch, but the reduction in height extends only to their own body; the mount does not crouch with them (although, if it did it would probably look really adorable to have your horse or pegasus resting on its legs as its crouching pose). If a horse rider jumps, they'll jump off their mount, while pegasus and wyvern riders hover above the ground and get multiple midair jumps.

Recovery is where things get tricky. In the case of dismounted Pegasus Knights and Wyvern Riders, I was thinking they could magically sprout a pair of pegasus or wyvern wings to fly for a short time. Horse riders could do some kind of dragoon-esque high jump, I guess?

Alternatively, the mount could simply appear in the Final Smash, where the rider summons the mount and charges forward atop the mount, leading to a quick cutscene where they score a critical hit.

Edited by Lord_Brand

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My bet that we could see a Bandai Namco rep like Llyod Irving, another Tales rep, or another franchise character at E3 2021 since Pac-Man is the only Bandai Namco rep in the entire roster. We due for a 2nd Bandai Namco rep since Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U that Sakurai was planned on having Heihachi as the 2nd Bandai Namco rep since Ryu and Bayonetta were the first two 2nd 3rd Party Franchise rep from the same company in the roster back then.

And for incase if Challenger Pack 11 gets announced in E3 2021, I think we could see a first party character that might be not debut from Nintendo Switch console like Mike Jones from StarTropics, Impa from The Legend of Zelda, Dixie Kong, etc. since we have Byleth, Min Min, Pyra, and Mythra are a total of 4 1st Party Nintendo Switch debut characters in the roster.

Edited by King Marth 64

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Honestly, is there a character who will drum up more excitement than Crash? They might want to save Crash for last and give us whoever else first, to avoid another Byleth. Well, OK, these were planned out ahead of time so the lukewarm reaction to Byleth really happened too late to take into consideration one way or another, but I hope they send off Ultimate with one heck of a bang.

Question, though: We know there won't be any future fighter passes, but do we know these will be the last DLC fighters? Maybe they have one or two extras planned that couldn't fit into a Fighter's Pass, so they'll be released independently? But honestly, I think they're getting ready to close up Ultimate's development and start on something new. Mark my words, there will be a Smash 6 eventually. Since Smash debuted on the N64, not one console generation's gone by without a new Smash title. Will Smash 6 be helmed by Sakurai? Possible, but they may let a new director take the reins next time.

I think Smash 6 should actually be a sort of "reboot" for the series that starts over with a simple core roster that they can build on via DLC over time. One of the perks of DLC is that you can develop content in waves rather than having to get everything ready before launch. They can start with 8-24 revised "core" roster fighters and add on to that over time, perhaps releasing fighters in themed batches.

And if I may be so bold, I think the core roster next time will be very different compared to Smash 64. Some series have become more relevant over time, and others less so. The new core roster will reflect the most important titles to Nintendo, while lower-priority series will get unlockables or DLC additions. The former category includes Mario, Zelda, Kirby, Pokemon, and now Fire Emblem and Splatoon, while the latter category includes Metroid, EarthBound, Kid Icarus, and Star Fox. Yes, I'm seriously suggesting that Fox McCloud, one of my favorite fighters in Smash, might be removed from the core roster or made unlockable, due to his series being unquestionably B-List nowadays. Meanwhile Marth - or at least, some manner of Fire Emblem rep - will for better or for worse be part of the starting roster.

I spoke to my brother about what eight fighters he'd pick for a starting roster in Smash 6, and he basically picked Smash 64's roster but swapping Yoshi and Fox out for Inkling and Ike or Chrom. Sounds fair to me.

The base game would logically have unlockable fighters as well. I think around 16 would be a fair starting number, bringing SSB6's roster close to Melee's size. Unlockables could include villains like Bowser, Ganon, and King K. Rool who would be fought as opponents, characters who typically play support roles like Peach and Zelda, and perhaps some B-Listers like Fox, Yoshi, and Pyra & Mythra, not to mention the ever-popular C-Lister, Captain Falcon.

Then there's the question of 3rd party fighters. Smash 6 will for certain have 3rd party fighters - you're kidding yourself if you think otherwise - but how Smash 6 will have them is a manner of debate. Will there be default 3rd parties on the roster, or will they use their appeal to help sell DLC packs? Let's use Sonic as an example. Will Sonic be in the base game, or will he headline a Sonic DLC Pack #1 featuring himself, Tails, Knuckles, and Eggman? Same with Mega Man, Proto Man, Roll, and Bass, or Cloud, Tifa, Aerith, and Sephiroth.

I think I'll make a topic for discussing this further.

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7 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

Question, though: We know there won't be any future fighter passes, but do we know these will be the last DLC fighters? Maybe they have one or two extras planned that couldn't fit into a Fighter's Pass, so they'll be released independently? But honestly, I think they're getting ready to close up Ultimate's development and start on something new. Mark my words, there will be a Smash 6 eventually. Since Smash debuted on the N64, not one console generation's gone by without a new Smash title. Will Smash 6 be helmed by Sakurai? Possible, but they may let a new director take the reins next time.

Well, I did saw a detailed theory that was discovered in Australian Website that there was a slot of the filename images had one spot missing that was between Challenger Pack 11 Placement Holder Image (700050000018972) and Image of Mii Swordfighter Costume of Ancient Armor from The Legend of Zelda series (700050000018974) from Fighter Pass Vol. 2 that could lead to a Possible Bonus Fighter might show up as the last fighter instead of Challenger Pack 11. The only weird thing that this missing 700050000018973 image file shows as Error-Code while typing the other random numbers showed as Requested Page couldn't be found. Technically that all Fighter Pass Vol. 1 slots in the Austrilian Website are numberedly organized without being skipped while Fighter Pass Vol. 2 did had one skipped mysteriously that raises the possibilities of a Bonus Fighter could possibly get announced.

I'm betting that we could see three more DLC Fighters instead of two, I do think we could see about Challenger Pack 10 and possible CP11 might be announced at E3 2021 and the Bonus DLC Fighter could get revealed at Challenger Pack 10's Sakurai's Presentation or 11th. I don't think that Bonus Fighter would be announced at E3 2021.

Edited by King Marth 64

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7 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

Honestly, is there a character who will drum up more excitement than Crash? They might want to save Crash for last and give us whoever else first, to avoid another Byleth. Well, OK, these were planned out ahead of time so the lukewarm reaction to Byleth really happened too late to take into consideration one way or another, but I hope they send off Ultimate with one heck of a bang.

For me personally, no. Crash is my most-wanted character, period. No one else would give me even CLOSE to the same amount of hype. Not even Lyn, who was my most-wanted until Crash actually became a possibility. I certainly still desperately want Lyn, but Crash is my #1.

7 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

Question, though: We know there won't be any future fighter passes, but do we know these will be the last DLC fighters? Maybe they have one or two extras planned that couldn't fit into a Fighter's Pass, so they'll be released independently?

Sakurai addressed this in a sort of indirect way and said no, after the fighter pass, this is it. He could be being cheeky in that Sakurai way, but I think this is one of those times where he's serious.

7 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

I think Smash 6 should actually be a sort of "reboot" for the series that starts over with a simple core roster that they can build on via DLC over time. One of the perks of DLC is that you can develop content in waves rather than having to get everything ready before launch. They can start with 8-24 revised "core" roster fighters and add on to that over time, perhaps releasing fighters in themed batches.

And if I may be so bold, I think the core roster next time will be very different compared to Smash 64. Some series have become more relevant over time, and others less so. The new core roster will reflect the most important titles to Nintendo, while lower-priority series will get unlockables or DLC additions. The former category includes Mario, Zelda, Kirby, Pokemon, and now Fire Emblem and Splatoon, while the latter category includes Metroid, EarthBound, Kid Icarus, and Star Fox. Yes, I'm seriously suggesting that Fox McCloud, one of my favorite fighters in Smash, might be removed from the core roster or made unlockable, due to his series being unquestionably B-List nowadays. Meanwhile Marth - or at least, some manner of Fire Emblem rep - will for better or for worse be part of the starting roster.

I spoke to my brother about what eight fighters he'd pick for a starting roster in Smash 6, and he basically picked Smash 64's roster but swapping Yoshi and Fox out for Inkling and Ike or Chrom. Sounds fair to me.

The base game would logically have unlockable fighters as well. I think around 16 would be a fair starting number, bringing SSB6's roster close to Melee's size. Unlockables could include villains like Bowser, Ganon, and King K. Rool who would be fought as opponents, characters who typically play support roles like Peach and Zelda, and perhaps some B-Listers like Fox, Yoshi, and Pyra & Mythra, not to mention the ever-popular C-Lister, Captain Falcon.

There is absolutely no way that Smash 6 will have a starting roster that has less characters than Melee, not even if it's a reboot. Not in today's gaming age, with today's technology. Not one single person would find that acceptable. A Melee-sized base roster would be the minimum. And there is no way they'd remove Fox from the roster. Falco and Wolf, maybe, but not Fox, there is a 0.0000000000000001% chance of that. I don't see a world where Captain Falcon is removed, either, he's way too ridiculously popular within the Smash community.

I do agree that, if the hypothetical Smash 6 does end up being a reboot, it will focus more on what's currently big for Nintendo, that primarily being Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, and Fire Emblem. But they're not gonna remove characters like Ness, that's not happening.

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Since Kazuya was added as the 2nd Bandai Namco rep for years after Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U, this definitely means that Llyod Irving Mii Fighter Costume is going to be returning in Mii Fighter Costume Round 10 Wave. I'm kinda wondered if what new Bandai Namco Mii Fighter Costumes would show up for Round 10?

Edited by King Marth 64

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I really would have preferred Talim over Kazuya, myself. A cute girl with tonfa blades and wind powers would be more novel than yet another muscular punchy man. Oh, this one has a demon gimmick? What a coincidence! So do Joker and Sephiroth. That said, I can appreciate that they keep Ultimate's tradition of "darkly humorous villain trailers" alive.

They'll probably add at least one Soul Calibur costume. Mitsurugi, Kilik, Cassandra, Raphael...possibly more than one.

Edited by Lord_Brand

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Since Sakurai did said that Kazuya's Presentation is going to be at June 28th, I'm kinda wondered if we might get about few Tekken characters as Mii Fighter Costumes since Heihachi Mii Fighter Costume was already been added while ago and I definitely could see some other Bandai Namco characters as new Mii Fighter Fighter Costumes since we already know Llyod is going to be returning since Tales is part of Namco property as well.

I think in my head that we could see what Mii Fighter Costume Round 10 in Kazuya's presentation might show off as:

  1. Tekken Character (new) (definitely Brawler)
  2. Tekken Character (new) (definitely Brawler)
  3. Wonder Momo (new, possibility) (definitely Brawler)
  4. Valkyrie (new, possibility) (100% Mii Swordfighter)
  5. Kos-Mos (new, possibilities that I think this might be likely due to Bandai Namco related stuff since it wasn't shown in Round 9 w/Pyra and Mythra) (100% Mii Gunner)
  6. Llyod Irving (returning and it's definitely most likely to be shown off)

I definitely haven't played a single Tekken game, I'm definitely don't know what type of Tekken costumes will be shown off in the presentation?

Edited by King Marth 64

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Well, as a Tekken fan, I'm happy to see it represented in Smash Bros.! I might have picked Jin, though, personally. Still, happy to see Kazuya...and desperately hoping that the final DLC fighter is Crash.

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12 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Well, as a Tekken fan, I'm happy to see it represented in Smash Bros.! I might have picked Jin, though, personally. Still, happy to see Kazuya...and desperately hoping that the final DLC fighter is Crash.

I'm not a huge Tekken fan, but wouldn't Jin might technically count as an echo fighter of Kazuya in Tekken (due to Mishima Family Heritage) incase if Nintendo decides to make a new Super Smash Bros. title in the future after Ultimate or is Jin's moves are way different from his father? I did watched in Screw Attack's Death Battle on Kazuya vs. Ryu and Geese Howard vs. Heihachi (as well as Top 10 Worst Fathers video that focused on Heihachi in it) before Kazuya was added in to the Super Smash Bros. series since I haven't played a single Tekken game.

Edited by King Marth 64

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52 minutes ago, King Marth 64 said:

I'm not a huge Tekken fan, but wouldn't Jin might technically count as an echo fighter of Kazuya in Tekken (due to Mishima Family Heritage) incase if Nintendo decides to make a new Super Smash Bros. title in the future after Ultimate or is Jin's moves are way different from his father? I did watched in Screw Attack's Death Battle on Kazuya vs. Ryu and Geese Howard vs. Heihachi (as well as Top 10 Worst Fathers video that focused on Heihachi in it) before Kazuya was added in to the Super Smash Bros. series since I haven't played a single Tekken game.

Screw Attack's Death Battle is honestly a pretty terrible place to learn about characters, they're really not good over there.

In the Tekken games, Jin's fighting style is a combination of two different styles. One of those styles is the Mishima style and therefore Jin's style is similar, but it isn't exact and there are significant differences. In Smash Bros., though, it wouldn't surprise me if they decided to make him in echo, should they ever add him. It would be a Marth/Lucina situation where in their own games, their style is different, but it doesn't reflect in Smash.

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6 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Screw Attack's Death Battle is honestly a pretty terrible place to learn about characters, they're really not good over there.

In the Tekken games, Jin's fighting style is a combination of two different styles. One of those styles is the Mishima style and therefore Jin's style is similar, but it isn't exact and there are significant differences. In Smash Bros., though, it wouldn't surprise me if they decided to make him in echo, should they ever add him. It would be a Marth/Lucina situation where in their own games, their style is different, but it doesn't reflect in Smash.

So that technically makes Jin Mishima kinda the Ken Masters and Chrom echo situation of Tekken series, correct? (few differences from the original fighter)

Like what difference in Jin's fighting style differs from his father, Kazuya in the Tekken Franchise?

Edited by King Marth 64

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On 2/21/2021 at 10:54 PM, Glennstavos said:

I hope one of the two is a fighting game character. DLC pack 2 has been a very "should have been there in the base game" list, save for maybe Steve. So if we follow that theme, then it would be a Tekken character. Namco's been making Smash for over half a decade, they've earned some self-promotion. I just wish Tekken had cooler characters lol. Kazuya's pretty nothing as far as poster boys go. There's Heihachi as the villain. I suppose he WOULD complete my trifecta of old men characters in smash, alongside Cranky Kong and Scrooge McDuck. But any pick feels lacking in terms of movesets. Tekken never really emphasized special moves or some kind of meter management. And I've seen them put those characters in 2D before with Street FighterxTekken, a lot of it doesn't make sense in a game where sidestepping isn't a thing. Maybe one of the characters who can initiate separate fighting stances, like Xiaoyu. That'd be a very Tekken way to create new gameplay possibilities. Sakurai can also brag that this character has "almost 100 moves in total!". Or heck, just put in Kuma/Panda. You'd have the comedy of Piranha Plant's inclusion, but none of the salt about them being a generic enemy.

D'aww. Look at me calling the new addition a pretty nothing character. Well I take it back. It was a great reveal. Extremely comedic CG trailer that you could really only do with Kazuya or Heihachi. And look how many moves he has! I'm very curious to see how he controls in Smash because a lot of it is going to be a mystery until that Sakurai presentation. Wouldn't be surprised if it were an hour long with how much needs to be covered. I figured a character like Xiaoyu or Kuma would be a better fit since they rely more on stances, and being able to initiate a new stance with say one of your special moves would be fairly faithful to the source material while distinguishing what makes the Tekken representative unique as a fighter among other the likes of Ryu or Terry. And maybe just easier to grasp in general for the average Smash player. We saw how folks reacted to the input for Terry's Power Geyser.

Not only does Kazuya have a ton of moves, he's got the Devil form, and what looks like Tekken 7's Rage Mode on top of it? Wow. Oh my gosh, are they putting this track in Smash? Can't wait.

Edited by Glennstavos

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23 hours ago, King Marth 64 said:

So that technically makes Jin Mishima kinda the Ken Masters and Chrom echo situation of Tekken series, correct? (few differences from the original fighter)

Like what difference in Jin's fighting style differs from his father, Kazuya in the Tekken Franchise?

That's not something I really know how to explain, you just have to play the game. They have different moves in Tekken, but some moves are a similar.

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I did checked in the Spirit Events that we're getting today was something related to Father Figures which it totally makes sense since Father's Day is coming up. I think I might have collected all those Spirits already.

By the way, since we pretty much getting something else besides info of Kazuya, his Spirit Board, that Tekken Stage, and Mii Fighter Costume Round 10 in Kazuya's Presentation. Do you guys think we might get to see some previews of what Sakurai did with Kazuya's Classic Mode that might be in a Tekken-style layout and be similar to like he did with Terry's Classic Route in Terry's Presentation? I'm kind of wondered if Kazuya's Final Boss could might be Dracula due to Dracula is a father like Heihachi is, can transform into a demon bat like Kazuya has a Devil Form, and it's very dark as well or do you guys think Kazuya might have to fight Ryu, Ken, Terry, and/or himself as the Final Boss similar to like Terry has to fight Ryu, Ken, and himself in the Classic Mode?

Edited by King Marth 64

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Now that Danganronpa's on the Switch, how would you feel about a hypothetical Spirit Event? The Spirits I had in mind are:

  • Makoto & Kyoko
  • Hajime & Chiaki
  • Kaede & Shuichi
  • Monokuma

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11 hours ago, King Marth 64 said:

I did checked in the Spirit Events that we're getting today was something related to Father Figures which it totally makes sense since Father's Day is coming up. I think I might have collected all those Spirits already.

...I just realized how darkly appropriate it is that they revealed Kazuya when they did. He's a father himself, to Jin Kazama. Erm...Happy Father's Day?

Edited by Lord_Brand

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42 minutes ago, Lord_Brand said:

...I just realized how darkly appropriate it is that they revealed Kazuya when they did. He's a father himself, to Jin Kazama. Erm...Happy Father's Day?

Plus, Heihachi's his father as well.

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Kazuya's a patricidal maniac. Don't think you could run that theme for his classic mode...Well there's Snake huh. Chrom, Bowser, and Olimar are dads, but that's not enough for him to be satisfied killing the Dads of Smash Bros.

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43 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

Kazuya's a patricidal maniac. Don't think you could run that theme for his classic mode...Well there's Snake huh. Chrom, Bowser, and Olimar are dads, but that's not enough for him to be satisfied killing the Dads of Smash Bros.

Corrin and Robin are dads too. And in the similar vein to Snake as someone who committed patricide, Bayonetta killed her father. And actually much like Snake retcons had them end on pretty good terms after that event (yes, in both cases the characters come to be on better terms with the parents after they kill them). If only they'd give us a pair of shades for a Fox costume we could have James McCloud in the game. Coming to think of it I'm actually quite disapointed that in over 20 years of smash they never gave Fox an alternate costume with a pair of shades. It would be super easy to do, would be a neat reference and would look super cool. I wish they'd stop giving us Mii Costumes I'm not interested in and instead give us alternate costumes for the other 70 characters in the game.

Edited by Jotari

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2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Corrin and Robin are dads too. And in the similar vein to Snake as someone who committed patricide, Bayonetta killed her father. And actually much like Snake retcons had them end on pretty good terms after that event (yes, in both cases the characters come to be on better terms with the parents after they kill them). If only they'd give us a pair of shades for a Fox costume we could have James McCloud in the game. Coming to think of it I'm actually quite disapointed that in over 20 years of smash they never gave Fox an alternate costume with a pair of shades. It would be super easy to do, would be a neat reference and would look super cool. I wish they'd stop giving us Mii Costumes I'm not interested in and instead give us alternate costumes for the other 70 characters in the game.

There's also Ken Masters did became a Father in Street Fighter IV as well. And plus, Donkey Kong did had a son when DK Junior existed in 1982. (I don't know if the modern DK was Donkey Kong Junior due to I watched the Missing in Action of Donkey Kong Jr. that Derrick did researched about the Kong Family Confusion in the Donkey Kong Continuity)

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