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mangasdeouf

Subaki class path, the uncatchable wall

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Hello,

Yesterday I went to the wiki to make some optimization for Subaki (because I'm doing a balanced units run and Subaki is quite balanced with average stats everywhere like Hinata). Here is my final class path:

subaki
sky knight 20: 30 hp, 14.25 str, 22 skl, 15 spd, 13.75 lck, 15.75 def, 13.75 res
kinshi promotion gains: 1 hp, 1 str, 4 skl, 1 spd, 1 lck, 2 def, 1 res. These bonuses are making me puke.
kinshi 20/5: 33 hp, 16.65 str, 28 skl, 17.4 spd, 16.35 lck, 19 def, 14.5 res
swordmaster promotion gains: 1 hp, 2 str, -2 skl, 3 spd, -1 lck, 1 def, -2 res
swordmaster 20/6: 34.5 hp, 19 str, 26.5 skl, 20.8 spd, 16 lck, 20.35 def, 12.8 res
master of arms promotion gains: 2 hp, 2 str, -1 skl, -2 spd, -1 lck, +2 def, +2 res
growth rates: 75% hp, 45% str, 50% skl, 30% spd, 35% lck, 55% def, 5% res
master of arms 20/20: 47 hp, 27.3 str, 30 skl cap, 23 spd, 20 lck, 30 def, 15.5 res
skills: air superiority: +30% avo and acc vs flyers; vantage, darting blow: +5 spd PP, duelist's blow:
+30% avo PP; astra, strength seal/life or death: +10 damage dealt and taken.
If facing mainly flyers, air superiority and life or death. If too few to no flyers, strength seal replaces life or death (too risky).

I just saw I forgot 2 levels as swordmaster to get astra but it's not a big deal and the final stats won't be very different anyway.

With this setup, he can have around 0% chance to be hit by ennemy flyers in PP and very low hit rates in EP. Life or death isn't a problem when he doesn't get hit and it makes for his low speed. WT control, average 30 def, 15.5 res, 23 spd, 47 hp and no class weakness are great. I didn't even have to use a partner seal to make him good.

Edited by mangasdeouf

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Several problems with this:

1. I don't see how Subaki is "balanced" when he has poor growths everywhere but HP, Defense, and Skill, the last of which isn't really a vital stat to specialize in...

1.5: ...and even if he was worthy of being called "balanced", there is such a thing as being too balanced, which is NOT a good thing.

2. Life and Death is a level 15 skill, which means you won't be seeing it until endgame is around the corner. There's also the massive risk factor attached to it...

3. Evade is unreliable. Also, Subaki's speed woes limit his evasive ability.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia

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5 hours ago, anniec8711 said:

Calm the hell down dawg, let the guy have fun.

Having fun is one thing, but I won't stand for misleading others. And "uncatchable wall" sounds a lot like it oversells Subaki, what with his low speed.

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I've been actively avoiding this but here's a sane critique to balance out youknowwho.

Low damage before x/15 is pretty harsh but I guess you can splash A+/S for that.

Past that the build isn't VLaD stack, bulky stack, or a hard support falco but it looks reasonably thought out and seems functional enough in terms of the job it wants to do.

Edited by joshcja

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8 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

1. I don't see how Subaki is "balanced" when he has poor growths everywhere but HP, Defense, and Skill, the last of which isn't really a vital stat to specialize in...

Seeing as how most of your hit rate rides on your Skill stat, I'd call it a pretty essential stat to be proficient in. Low Skill means you won't hit all that often and you and I both know what bad hit rates mean in Fates.
Incidentally, many units in Fates have a massive Skill problem and won't reach 100% hit rates until after promotion. Many won't reach it at all. It can't really be a coincidence that most units that are considered "the worst" units in Fates have shit-tier Skill stats, namely Setsuna, Nyx, Charlotte, Arthur, Hinata, and Rinkah among others I probably missed.
I think one of the NPCs in Shadow Dragon said it best: (paraphrased) "If your hits don't land, your strength is meaningless."

As for the topic at hand, it sounds like an interesting build for sure, even though it requires a crap-ton of grinding and can realistically only be done after Chapter 20, when you're able to buy Eternal Seals. I might try this build for myself one of these days.

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41 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

Seeing as how most of your hit rate rides on your Skill stat, I'd call it a pretty essential stat to be proficient in. Low Skill means you won't hit all that often and you and I both know what bad hit rates mean in Fates.
Incidentally, many units in Fates have a massive Skill problem and won't reach 100% hit rates until after promotion. Many won't reach it at all. It can't really be a coincidence that most units that are considered "the worst" units in Fates have shit-tier Skill stats, namely Setsuna, Nyx, Charlotte, Arthur, Hinata, and Rinkah among others I probably missed.
I think one of the NPCs in Shadow Dragon said it best: (paraphrased) "If your hits don't land, your strength is meaningless."

Just how many of those units you mentioned aren't bogged down by other problems..? Because I would wager they're hurt more by their other issues than a lacking Skill growth... That said, having high skill is still better than having low skill - it's just that having high stats elsewhere is more helpful.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia

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3 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Just how many of those units you mentioned aren't bogged down by other problems..? Because I would wager they're hurt more by their other issues than a lacking Skill growth... That said, having high skill is still better than having low skill - it's just that having high stats elsewhere is more helpful.

You have a point there. Skill may not be the most important stat, as in it doesn't need to be astronomically high and having only Skill is just as terrible (see Subaki) as having none at all. But I still think people at large tend to downplay the importance of being able to hit stuff reliably. 
And yes, those units I mentioned do have other problems. Nyx and Setsuna die from a stiff breeze, Arthur faces crits with his shit-tier luck, Rinkah hits like wet tissue paper, Hinata is like Subaki, only worse, and Charlotte is Charlotte. Them not hitting things is just the most "in your face" issue these units have, if you catch my drift.

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10 hours ago, anniec8711 said:

Now I'm beginning to see what @joshcja was talking about. Naga help me . . .

Well, excuuuuuuse me for not being some naïve idealist who accepts what others say no questions asked!

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Hi,

I see there were a lot of answers during my AFK time.

Like I said, life or death will be used only during levels with flyers where Subaki can dodge literally every single hit thrown at him (even if he takes one hit, his high def will make it useless he will just get hit by the passive's damage, the base damage will be close to inexistant and he isn't a flyer anymore so he doesn't care if the attacker uses a bow). And during PP he has 30% free avoid against anyone. So having 30 def average (lol 30 def because he will reach it far before reaching level 20 master of arms following his average growths) with air superiority and PP free 30 avoid means yes, he will dodge a lot and even when he doesn't, he won't take a lot of damage and, good news, he will have high HP compared to most of the cast so he can actually use Life and death far better than a lot of units. For now mine is A support with Rinkah, I don't know if I'll give him S support.

Anyway either I give him attack stance partner to indirectly raise his damage and make him give some exp to someone else while taking the hits (nice in chokepoints like you could do with Effie or Benny who I killed before knowing you had to make Elise go all the way through the map to talk to Charlotte and him so I only got Charlotte, but not being an armored unit means he's not gonna take massive damage from anti-armor weapons) or I give him Rinkah or another strength-heavy support like Keaton in dual guard so the ennemies hit him and not the ally then I switch or bring another unit to feed it the kill.

And even if his avoid isn't godlike against non-flyer units he still has some correct speed (23 is more than many tanky units so he can still double slow stuff on EP and medium speed ennemies on PP). 23-ish speed with 30 def and 15-ish res isn't something you laugh at even if it has barely 21 base str. Add the ability to control WT and he's definitely gonna dodge quite well especially if there are terrain bonuses.

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1 hour ago, mangasdeouf said:

Hi,

I see there were a lot of answers during my AFK time.

Like I said, life or death will be used only during levels with flyers where Subaki can dodge literally every single hit thrown at him (even if he takes one hit, his high def will make it useless he will just get hit by the passive's damage, the base damage will be close to inexistant and he isn't a flyer anymore so he doesn't care if the attacker uses a bow). And during PP he has 30% free avoid against anyone. So having 30 def average (lol 30 def because he will reach it far before reaching level 20 master of arms following his average growths) with air superiority and PP free 30 avoid means yes, he will dodge a lot and even when he doesn't, he won't take a lot of damage and, good news, he will have high HP compared to most of the cast so he can actually use Life and death far better than a lot of units. For now mine is A support with Rinkah, I don't know if I'll give him S support.

Anyway either I give him attack stance partner to indirectly raise his damage and make him give some exp to someone else while taking the hits (nice in chokepoints like you could do with Effie or Benny who I killed before knowing you had to make Elise go all the way through the map to talk to Charlotte and him so I only got Charlotte, but not being an armored unit means he's not gonna take massive damage from anti-armor weapons) or I give him Rinkah or another strength-heavy support like Keaton in dual guard so the ennemies hit him and not the ally then I switch or bring another unit to feed it the kill.

And even if his avoid isn't godlike against non-flyer units he still has some correct speed (23 is more than many tanky units so he can still double slow stuff on EP and medium speed ennemies on PP). 23-ish speed with 30 def and 15-ish res isn't something you laugh at even if it has barely 21 base str. Add the ability to control WT and he's definitely gonna dodge quite well especially if there are terrain bonuses.

In the context of Birthright, the only level with fliers that you would actually have Life and Death for is chapter 27. At least, without excess grinding (it's a level 15 skill, remember?). I'm not sure things would be significantly better in Revelation... Also, fliers tend to not be a significant portion of the enemy forces except in a select few maps. A setup that only helps against a scant few enemies isn't a good setup IMHO... And I don't know why you bothered bringing up 20/20 stats since they're not going to be relevant for long, if at all.

23 speed might be more than enough to double the likes of Generals and Great Knights, but at the same time, he'd struggle to do anything more than tickle them without an effective weapon. More importantly, it's no help against the likes of Berserkers, which are extremely dangerous, especially if they get two chances to put him in a body bag. And Subaki's strength is worrisome, too - am I going to have to give him silver weapons that lower his crit evade and debilitate him after every fight just so he can kill stuff??? That's a very bad position to be in. Terrain isn't much of an argument either since it isn't as plentiful or potent as it was in the GBA games.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia

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Berserkers doubling 23 speed? LOL I'm not playing Lunatic+ thanks.

Yes I use scouting and farming but nothing comparable to TSS where you actually could exp in the 1st level of Tower of Valni from level 1 trainee to level 20 promoted just by killing the boss a few times (same as no reclass 1 to 20/20 in Awakening with EXPonential growth, but in 2 turns and for 1 unit and without them dying to a stupid counter+miracle). In Fates you can hardly grind when overlevelled since scouts help you find weak ennemies to kill and exp your weak units to catch up to your medium units but it's not like scouting helps you reach 20/20 for a while. I beat the level of Ryoma vs Xander vs Valla and still can't get any level 20 or promoted ennemy by scouting (well I couldn't in the previous chapter and I still haven't tried again but level 16 was the highest I've seen until now). So I'm only getting exp on the likes of Effie who joined at level 8 or something like that but my level 17+ only get exp from the boss (the others giving barely more exp than Awakening lunatic encounters and Spotpass encounters, meaning 1 point).

Still I'm starting to have a consistent army of tier 2 with Subaki Kinshi knight (just promoted), MU level 19/7 Hoshidan noble (I needed a healer before reclassing level 15 Jakob into paladin), Sakura Priestess (14 str, 18 mag, 22 spd, 20 def, 18 res, and like 3 HP +5 overall stats more than Onmyoji so yes I chose the hybrid class and level 15 skill will help a lot for later chapters) anyway she doesn't fight a lot she's a healer more than anything else (and my healers are far more levelled than my fighters since they don't suck battle exp and just need less than 5 levels of difference with the target to get correct to good exp by healing, also my benched Azura reached level 24 singer like 2 or 3 chapters earlier and I don't use her anymore for now, just rushing to a more challenging part of the game while discovering the scenario and I don't want her to get targetted by mobile/flying units and die in 2 hits because LOL27HP and LOL7DEF).

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17 minutes ago, mangasdeouf said:

Berserkers doubling 23 speed? LOL I'm not playing Lunatic+ thanks.

Yes I use scouting and farming but nothing comparable to TSS where you actually could exp in the 1st level of Tower of Valni from level 1 trainee to level 20 promoted just by killing the boss a few times (same as no reclass 1 to 20/20 in Awakening with EXPonential growth, but in 2 turns and for 1 unit and without them dying to a stupid counter+miracle). In Fates you can hardly grind when overlevelled since scouts help you find weak ennemies to kill and exp your weak units to catch up to your medium units but it's not like scouting helps you reach 20/20 for a while. I beat the level of Ryoma vs Xander vs Valla and still can't get any level 20 or promoted ennemy by scouting (well I couldn't in the previous chapter and I still haven't tried again but level 16 was the highest I've seen until now). So I'm only getting exp on the likes of Effie who joined at level 8 or something like that but my level 17+ only get exp from the boss (the others giving barely more exp than Awakening lunatic encounters and Spotpass encounters, meaning 1 point).

Still I'm starting to have a consistent army of tier 2 with Subaki Kinshi knight (just promoted), MU level 19/7 Hoshidan noble (I needed a healer before reclassing level 15 Jakob into paladin), Sakura Priestess (14 str, 18 mag, 22 spd, 20 def, 18 res, and like 3 HP +5 overall stats more than Onmyoji so yes I chose the hybrid class and level 15 skill will help a lot for later chapters) anyway she doesn't fight a lot she's a healer more than anything else (and my healers are far more levelled than my fighters since they don't suck battle exp and just need less than 5 levels of difference with the target to get correct to good exp by healing, also my benched Azura reached level 24 singer like 2 or 3 chapters earlier and I don't use her anymore for now, just rushing to a more challenging part of the game while discovering the scenario and I don't want her to get targetted by mobile/flying units and die in 2 hits because LOL27HP and LOL7DEF).

The Berserkers in chapter 27 have 27 speed on Hard (other than one in the approximate center of the map which is at max level and has 30 speed and a brave axe, in addition to Swordbreaker). And if Subaki winds up with 23 speed at 20/20, that means he needs to max his level just to avoid a doubling (the brave axe guy quad attacks him regardless on offense). And I wouldn't bet on 20/20 happening without grinding.

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1. I started in hard but set it to normal because I wanted to use scouts (and it costs too much in hard) so now I'm facing normal difficulty ennemies (my goal isn't to play the hardcore game but to play the units I want to play without caring for the rest and I'm doing as little royals as possible except for the last chapters because I'm tired of slow progression in the scenario so I abused MU and Camilla to tear apart the ennemies whether or not they were promoted, and for information MU 2HKOed Ryoma and 3HKOed Xander if I recall correctly with the dragonstone with def boon res bane and he was the only one who could kill them safely especially Ryoma who could double most of my units and/or crit them and Sakura had E bows so not on the program).

2. Maybe with 2 more levels as Swordmaster than I calculated on my OP he would get 1 more speed so he would reach 23 earlier than 20/20 (anyway it's average, not true values and my Subaki had 19 spd before promotion anyway so screw averages).

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1. I started in hard but set it to normal because I wanted to use scouts (and it costs too much in hard) so now I'm facing normal difficulty ennemies (my goal isn't to play the hardcore game but to play the units I want to play without caring for the rest and I'm doing as little royals as possible except for the last chapters because I'm tired of slow progression in the scenario so I abused MU and Camilla to tear apart the ennemies whether or not they were promoted, and for information MU 2HKOed Ryoma and 3HKOed Xander if I recall correctly with the dragonstone with def boon res bane and he was the only one who could kill them safely especially Ryoma who could double most of my units and/or crit them and Sakura had E bows so not on the program).

2. Maybe with 2 more levels as Swordmaster than I calculated on my OP he would get 1 more speed so he would reach 23 earlier than 20/20 (anyway it's average, not true values and my Subaki had 19 spd before promotion anyway so screw averages).

Edit: 3. Balanced units are versatile, that's all I ask them. Rinkah for example is a balanced unit (and on 10 playthroughs until mid game she has bad strength skill and speed only in my 1st playthrough, in the others she could double sometimes even if never doubling the marcenaries) and in my current PT she has 18+ speed before level 18 and 16+ strength with close to 20 def and 7-9 res with a good 18 skl. So she doesn't have any bad stat except HP in no HP emblem which is quite normal.

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3 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

1. I started in hard but set it to normal because I wanted to use scouts (and it costs too much in hard) so now I'm facing normal difficulty ennemies (my goal isn't to play the hardcore game but to play the units I want to play without caring for the rest and I'm doing as little royals as possible except for the last chapters because I'm tired of slow progression in the scenario so I abused MU and Camilla to tear apart the ennemies whether or not they were promoted, and for information MU 2HKOed Ryoma and 3HKOed Xander if I recall correctly with the dragonstone with def boon res bane and he was the only one who could kill them safely especially Ryoma who could double most of my units and/or crit them and Sakura had E bows so not on the program).

2. Maybe with 2 more levels as Swordmaster than I calculated on my OP he would get 1 more speed so he would reach 23 earlier than 20/20 (anyway it's average, not true values and my Subaki had 19 spd before promotion anyway so screw averages).

Edit: 3. Balanced units are versatile, that's all I ask them. Rinkah for example is a balanced unit (and on 10 playthroughs until mid game she has bad strength skill and speed only in my 1st playthrough, in the others she could double sometimes even if never doubling the marcenaries) and in my current PT she has 18+ speed before level 18 and 16+ strength with close to 20 def and 7-9 res with a good 18 skl. So she doesn't have any bad stat except HP in no HP emblem which is quite normal.

1. The difficulty of the game affects how much scouting costs? I never knew that since I mostly play on hard. Speaking of Sakura, I prefer Priestess for her because Renewal is just better than what's arguably the least useful rally in the game.

2. Well, the random nature of FE is what makes it. And to be fair, Subaki is in a better position in Revelation relative to in Birthright, where Hinoka comes along one chapter after he does and immediately renders him obsolete.

3. Like I said, I don't have much problems with being balanced... except when you wind up being too balanced, and this results. Of course, the opposite extreme is also bad. Case in point: Little Mac in Smash 4. He's fast and powerful... but since boxing doesn't leave the ground, his air game is poor, both in terms of fighting and his ability to get back to the stage. As a result, he's easily KOed once he goes flying.

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1. Scouts cost at least 1300 in hard vs 350 or so in normal, quite a great difference.

2. Sure in revelations there are less early flyers but also 2x more seals.

3. Subaki is between jack of all trades and master of none. Competent in several domains but not master of all. he's not brave axe Haar for sure.

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On 3/11/2018 at 12:29 AM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Having fun is one thing, but I won't stand for misleading others. And "uncatchable wall" sounds a lot like it oversells Subaki, what with his low speed.

To be fair, his personal skill helps with his evade, and to add the innate evade bonus of the swordmaster class, along with both Dueling and Darting Blow , he's certainly workable with the given difficulty. 'Course, he would still like some support, should he get hit, such as Camaraderie and an ally's Amaterasu to maintain his personal skill. At least, this is how I go about it every time, along with using the right weapon and it seems to work on Hard difficulty

"Objectively" impractical or not, he works if you put in the effort; just like any unit, really [varies by difficulty, but the point remains], which is what I believe OP is trying to do. Maybe "uncatchable wall" does oversell it a little, but with an RNG like Fates has, no one can ever be a true one anyway. But if that's what OP's trying to do--make the best dodge-tank that Subaki possibly can-- being a rain cloud is just not needed

And even then, with the ability to buy skills from your logbook, either by previous save files or other players, anything ought to be fair game if you're just tryna have fun, right?

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1 hour ago, Motendra said:

To be fair, his personal skill helps with his evade, and to add the innate evade bonus of the swordmaster class, along with both Dueling and Darting Blow , he's certainly workable with the given difficulty. 'Course, he would still like some support, should he get hit, such as Camaraderie and an ally's Amaterasu to maintain his personal skill. At least, this is how I go about it every time, along with using the right weapon and it seems to work on Hard difficulty

"Objectively" impractical or not, he works if you put in the effort; just like any unit, really [varies by difficulty, but the point remains], which is what I believe OP is trying to do. Maybe "uncatchable wall" does oversell it a little, but with an RNG like Fates has, no one can ever be a true one anyway. But if that's what OP's trying to do--make the best dodge-tank that Subaki possibly can-- being a rain cloud is just not needed

And even then, with the ability to buy skills from your logbook, either by previous save files or other players, anything ought to be fair game if you're just tryna have fun, right?

That reminds me, getting Subaki's Pike from My Castle rewards helps with his Strength issues. Greatly, I might add, since it doubles the weapon's Might when your Skill is higher than your enemies', which Subaki's will most certainly be due to his high growth. And an 8 Might, 85 Hit weapon at base with no drawbacks is nothing to sneeze at. The best part? It's D-rank, so Subaki can use it as soon as you get him. If you're lucky, you can get several through your folks at your castle with random pick-ups. You only need to get one more to have a 12 Might D-rank weapon with no drawbacks. That's got to count for something, right?
If we're talking skill buying: Get Renewal. Renewal is key for any strategy involving keeping your peeps topped off.

Your statement about practicality is why I think "viability" discussions and "tier lists" are pretty much pointless, because as you said, any unit can be good if the effort is put in, especially in Birthright and Revelation where you can grind levels indefinitely. The only variable is the will of the player to put the effort (and / or resources) into training said unit.
Efficiency does not equal fun for some players, myself included, and I think some members of the Fire Emblem community have a hard time seeing that for reasons that will probably forever be beyond me.

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10 hours ago, Motendra said:

To be fair, his personal skill helps with his evade, and to add the innate evade bonus of the swordmaster class, along with both Dueling and Darting Blow , he's certainly workable with the given difficulty. 'Course, he would still like some support, should he get hit, such as Camaraderie and an ally's Amaterasu to maintain his personal skill. At least, this is how I go about it every time, along with using the right weapon and it seems to work on Hard difficulty

"Objectively" impractical or not, he works if you put in the effort; just like any unit, really [varies by difficulty, but the point remains], which is what I believe OP is trying to do. Maybe "uncatchable wall" does oversell it a little, but with an RNG like Fates has, no one can ever be a true one anyway. But if that's what OP's trying to do--make the best dodge-tank that Subaki possibly can-- being a rain cloud is just not needed

And even then, with the ability to buy skills from your logbook, either by previous save files or other players, anything ought to be fair game if you're just tryna have fun, right?

True, but (1) Duelist's Blow is once a turn, and (2) Darting Blow doesn't affect his evade (he's still gonna need it thanks to being so god damn slow). Plus, some weapons lower avoid. Anyway, I'd recommend Renewal if that was your priority. Anyway, I tend to look at things realistically, which might cause me to come off as aggressive.

8 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

That reminds me, getting Subaki's Pike from My Castle rewards helps with his Strength issues. Greatly, I might add, since it doubles the weapon's Might when your Skill is higher than your enemies', which Subaki's will most certainly be due to his high growth. And an 8 Might, 85 Hit weapon at base with no drawbacks is nothing to sneeze at. The best part? It's D-rank, so Subaki can use it as soon as you get him. If you're lucky, you can get several through your folks at your castle with random pick-ups. You only need to get one more to have a 12 Might D-rank weapon with no drawbacks. That's got to count for something, right?
If we're talking skill buying: Get Renewal. Renewal is key for any strategy involving keeping your peeps topped off.

Your statement about practicality is why I think "viability" discussions and "tier lists" are pretty much pointless, because as you said, any unit can be good if the effort is put in, especially in Birthright and Revelation where you can grind levels indefinitely. The only variable is the will of the player to put the effort (and / or resources) into training said unit.
Efficiency does not equal fun for some players, myself included, and I think some members of the Fire Emblem community have a hard time seeing that for reasons that will probably forever be beyond me.

You have a point, but the issue I have is that you're not guaranteed to have the requisite resource (incidentally, this is why I dismiss forge-reliant arguments).

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia

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17 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

You have a point, but the issue I have is that you're not guaranteed to have the requisite resource (incidentally, this is why I dismiss forge-reliant arguments).

I get you. I was just adding to the argument by Motendra on how you can improve Subaki for funsies. I agree that Subaki isn't exactly the best unit to use in a no-grind situation (then again, all the Pegasus Knights in Fates are pretty shit) when you don't use / have access to My Castle rewards. And I don't like him nearly enough to waste resources just to get him where my favourites are. I'd much rather throw them at Mozu, Hana, Kaze and many, many others than Subaki. Luckily for me, the three I mentioned don't even need that.

I have the lucky privilege of having access to most Castle rewards except for the Visitation and Battle Seals, so I guess I sometimes (wrongly) assume others can do that, too.

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4 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

I get you. I was just adding to the argument by Motendra on how you can improve Subaki for funsies. I agree that Subaki isn't exactly the best unit to use in a no-grind situation (then again, all the Pegasus Knights in Fates are pretty shit) when you don't use / have access to My Castle rewards. And I don't like him nearly enough to waste resources just to get him where my favourites are. I'd much rather throw them at Mozu, Hana, Kaze and many, many others than Subaki. Luckily for me, the three I mentioned don't even need that.

I have the lucky privilege of having access to most Castle rewards except for the Visitation and Battle Seals, so I guess I sometimes (wrongly) assume others can do that, too.

Bold: Ummmm... What? Why do you say this? I mean, sure, Subaki is kinda garbage, but I could at least get some mileage out of Hinoka and Caeldori. That's better than what I can expect out of the natural wyverns (granted, Camilla's pretty great, but Beruka has troubles with her speed and a personal skill that tends to not be very useful in practice [9 times out of 10, it's either kicking in on an archer or an unarmed healer], and Percy requires marrying off the biggest liability on the Nohrian side of the game just to exist; safe to say that might not happen unless I'm feeling really generous).

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45 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Percy requires marrying off the biggest liability on the Nohrian side of the game just to exist.

Pair with Effie having him in the back. Bam. Tanky Percy. Hell, you don't even have to use them for very long. You can get him before Chapter 10 in Conquest if you visit Mozu's paralogue. You can also train them in Kana's(and Dwyer's) Paralogue if Corrin is paired with Felicia (or Jakob). Percy doesn't have to be hard to get. You just have to want him.

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1 hour ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Bold: Ummmm... What? Why do you say this? I mean, sure, Subaki is kinda garbage, but I could at least get some mileage out of Hinoka and Caeldori. That's better than what I can expect out of the natural wyverns (granted, Camilla's pretty great, but Beruka has troubles with her speed and a personal skill that tends to not be very useful in practice [9 times out of 10, it's either kicking in on an archer or an unarmed healer], and Percy requires marrying off the biggest liability on the Nohrian side of the game just to exist; safe to say that might not happen unless I'm feeling really generous).

It's moreso the class line that is, rather than the characters themselves. Hinoka in particular works MUCH better as a spear fighter, for instance. And to my exp, same with Subaki. Can't say about Caeldori for being 2nd gen, as the only one that I actually use past recruitment is Shiro

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