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Guest Dreamyboi

What are you hoping for Story-wise?

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1 hour ago, Slumber said:

Shades of gray in a villain doesn't mean they're a good guy from a certain point of view. It means that they're not a completely black villain. 

Validar, Garon, Iago and Hans are all completely black villains. They kill and do bad things because they like it. There's not a single redeeming quality to any of these characters. 

Compare to someone like Sephiran. Sephiran by the time of PoR/RD, in no sense of the word, can be described as a good guy. He's intentionally stirring up chaos in order to awaken the gods so they can essentially wipe out humanity and reset everything. In Awakening and Fates, we'd get no explanation or backstop to this, he'd simply be a cackling madman, twiddling his fingers and talking about how great Ashera is. But this isn't Awakening or Fates, so we actually get to understand why this happened. Sephiran had been trying to bridge peace between the Laguz and Beorc for a thousand years, but he encountered nothing but tragedy. He lost his Laguz abilities, the people he loved died, leaders constantly went back to conflict any time peace seemed like a reality, and the final straw was his good intentions getting abused, leading to his race nearly getting exterminated and his home getting burned to the ground. 

He wasn't a good guy by the time of PoR/RD, but he wasn't really a bad guy(Well, bad as a person). He was somebody who just broke. You understand what brought him here. And, ironically, even though the games boils down to a God of Chaos vs. A God of Order, the story's not black and white because a lot of the villains have shades of gray. 

This doesn't even have to apply to main villains. FE5 is the only game I can think of in the series that ever actually explains why bandits are so common. And while there are bandits that kill and plunder for the hell of it, they actually explain that it's because the Thracian Penninsula is such a hostile, oppressive place, that it's extremely hard to make a living on honest work. People like Gomez try to be honest men and go straight like Dagdar, but they felt like there was no place for them in that life. So they went back to banditry.

Again, they're bandits. Not good guys. But they're not these 100% evil faceless goons. 

That's what shades of gray are. Just anything that makes you stop and go "Huh. Maybe the other side has an actual reason for fighting, too." 

Moral grayness refers to moral ambiguity. There's nothing morally ambiguous about Sephiran's actions.

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1 minute ago, YouSquiddinMe said:

Moral grayness refers to moral ambiguity. There's nothing morally ambiguous about Sephiran's actions.

That's referring to motives, not character. Sephiran's character has plenty of gray, despite him being firmly on the side of the antagonists.

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2 minutes ago, Slumber said:

That's referring to motives, not character. Sephiran's character has plenty of gray, despite him being firmly on the side of the antagonists.

I was referring to motives, not character. Looking back that wasn't very clear.

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1 minute ago, YouSquiddinMe said:

I was referring to motives, not character. Looking back that wasn't very clear.

Oh, well then I agree to an extent.

I would like an antagonist with actions that bring out sympathy. But I don't really think FE is that kind of series, so at the very least, villains that make it easy to at least sympathize with their character, or understand how they've become villains, is for the better.

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Guest Dreamyboi
5 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Oh, well then I agree to an extent.

I would like an antagonist with actions that bring out sympathy. But I don't really think FE is that kind of series, so at the very least, villains that make it easy to at least sympathize with their character, or understand how they've become villains, is for the better.

Agreed, one suggestion for fixing Fates I've heard is to drop the "He's possessed by big bad evil dragon" and instead tell of how he became a cold hearted warmonger. This would have definitely helped the story be less painful to sit through.

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Guest Dreamyboi

One thing I personally hope the writing team DOESN’T do is have everyone kiss up to the Lord again, which is bound to happen if the main character is an Avatar/My Unit.

Corrin was a prime example of why Avatar main characters are a bad idea.

Edited by Dreamyboi

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Also, no babbies.  This is just as relevant to the storyline as it is to the mechanics: no. more. children. units.  1000% done with these.

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1 hour ago, Dreamyboi said:

One thing I personally hope the writing team DOESN’T do is have everyone kiss up to the Lord again, which is bound to happen if the main character is an Avatar/My Unit.

Corrin was a prime example of why Avatar main characters are a bad idea.

Uh what they kiss up to Alm and Ike alot.

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8 hours ago, unabletofindaid said:

No phoenix or causal mode as it defeats the object of fire emblem; what is the point in playing if their is little or to no risk?
Some form of choice or player decision

You just summarized the whole point of there being a Casual mode in your next paragraph.

It’s there as an option, it doesn’t affect anyone but the player who chooses what mode they want to play on. Just because it’s a feature you personally disagree with, doesn’t mean it should be removed.

The whole point of Casual mode is to ease new players into the series, if they just want to experience the story or gameplay without stressing over losing a unit permanently. It’s the whole reason why we also get a choice of what difficulty the player chooses to play on.

As for what I want story-wise for the next installment, just a polished story. Listing from all the games I’ve played: Awakening’s story had a few hiccups and felt a bit generic, but the story was overall enjoyable. Fates on the contrary, was a complete mess in the story department for all the reasons already listed. Alm’s path in SoV was nice, albeit generic as well. Celica however, who was shaping up to be such a great female protagonist, ends up being a victim of bad writing simply because they needed something to drive her plot forward.

I just want a story that doesn’t make me question the writers and doesn’t hinder the quality of the games. That’s not asking for too much right?

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Make it so that the villains are actually actively trying to win instead of being arrogant, ignoring the threat or toying around. The only FE game I played where the villains were actually competent was Radiant Dawn.

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Guest Dreamyboi
2 minutes ago, thanny said:

You just summarized the whole point of there being a Casual mode in your next paragraph.

It’s there as an option, it doesn’t affect anyone but the player who chooses what mode they want to play on. Just because it’s a feature you personally disagree with, doesn’t mean it should be removed.

The whole point of Casual mode is to ease new players into the series, if they just want to experience the story or gameplay without stressing over losing a unit permanently. It’s the whole reason why we also get a choice of what difficulty the player chooses to play on.

As for what I want story-wise for the next installment, just a polished story. Listing from all the games I’ve played: Awakening’s story had a few hiccups and felt a bit generic, but the story was overall enjoyable. Fates on the contrary, was a complete mess in the story department for all the reasons already listed. Alm’s path in SoV was nice, albeit generic as well. Celica however, who was shaping up to be such a great female protagonist, ends up being a victim of bad writing simply because they needed something to drive her plot forward.

I just want a story that doesn’t make me question the writers and doesn’t hinder the quality of the games. That’s not asking for too much right?

Not at all, I'm asking/hoping for the same thing too but some of Echoes' execution has me worried (lots of missed opportunities here and there). I'm sure they've learned SOMETHING from the past few entries but this is 2018 man, turn your back for two seconds and something stupid happens. I've been complaining about the wait an awful lot recently but honestly I can keep waiting if they're taking this time to polish the writing, gameplay, presentation and whatever instead of wasting it on dumb shit like a creepy face rubbing minigame that doesn't get localized well okay I find this dumb, I'm sure there are people who liked it but I personally just found it weird and unnecessary. 

As for my opinion on Casual Mode, I think it should stay. I don't use it but I see no reason in removing it if there are people who do.

Pheonix Mode though.....mixed feelings on that one.

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5 hours ago, Dreamyboi said:

Pheonix Mode though.....mixed feelings on that one.

I had to Google to find out what Phoenix Mode is, I didn’t even know it existed. My point still stands. It doesn’t affect me, especially I had no idea about its existence until now.

I’d say keeping your expectations low for the story, especially this is a successor to Fates. You never know if the plot and writing are going to be the same pile of mess or if it’s going to be good, though it doesn’t take much to be better than Fates in those regards. Though I’m almost certain that everything else that Fates is well-received for like its presentation and battle mechanics will be just as good and if not improved upon, and hopefully flesh out some features that were a miss but had potential.

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5 hours ago, Dreamyboi said:

Not at all, I'm asking/hoping for the same thing too but some of Echoes' execution has me worried (lots of missed opportunities here and there). I'm sure they've learned SOMETHING from the past few entries but this is 2018 man, turn your back for two seconds and something stupid happens. I've been complaining about the wait an awful lot recently but honestly I can keep waiting if they're taking this time to polish the writing, gameplay, presentation and whatever instead of wasting it on dumb shit like a creepy face rubbing minigame that doesn't get localized well okay I find this dumb, I'm sure there are people who liked it but I personally just found it weird and unnecessary. 

We aren't waiting """""that"""""" much. If the game is not delayed were going to have 3 years in a row with mainline FE titles. I wonder if IS are getting supported by another studio. They took 3-4 years to make Fates 3 paths (and clearly rushed) with the same Awakening engine and assets, but somehow FE16 is a 2018 release after Echoes despite the massive change of the 3DS hardware to Switch. And we can expect features like 3d dungeons making a return.

As for the topic, what is the standard of story quality for FE? or videogames in general? I find game devs to be crappy storytellers. The only game that impressed me with the storytelling was Ghost Trick, and that affected the game design too much (GT is pretty linear and non-replayable).

I'd rather have the game sell me a fantasy. Some people are obssesed with the Zelda mythos, or Metroid mythos just to put a Nintendo example.

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Guest Dreamyboi
1 hour ago, Morian said:

We aren't waiting """""that"""""" much. If the game is not delayed were going to have 3 years in a row with mainline FE titles. I wonder if IS are getting supported by another studio. They took 3-4 years to make Fates 3 paths (and clearly rushed) with the same Awakening engine and assets, but somehow FE16 is a 2018 release after Echoes despite the massive change of the 3DS hardware to Switch. And we can expect features like 3d dungeons making a return.

As for the topic, what is the standard of story quality for FE? or videogames in general? I find game devs to be crappy storytellers. The only game that impressed me with the storytelling was Ghost Trick, and that affected the game design too much (GT is pretty linear and non-replayable).

I'd rather have the game sell me a fantasy. Some people are obssesed with the Zelda mythos, or Metroid mythos just to put a Nintendo example.

I guess I'm just hoping we don't get another hot mess plot like Fates, Conquest specifically in my case I mean jesus. It's not something I'm going to lose sleep over or abandon the franchise or anything dramatic like that if it's bad again, It'll just convince me they've stopped giving a fuck about it and honestly a shit story is going to hurt my enjoyment of it. 

As for IntSys I'd be surprised if they weren't getting supported with the rate they're cranking out stuff.

Also I know there are some dedicated Zelda fans sometimes a little TOO dedicated but Metroid? That's news to me.

Edited by Dreamyboi

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Guest Dreamyboi
Just now, Michelaar said:

Kissing up to the main lord really wasn't a problem only avatars have though..

*Looks at Ike*

FE9 Ike or FE10 Ike?

Either way I haven't played far enough to see what you're talking about.

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6 minutes ago, Dreamyboi said:

FE9 Ike or FE10 Ike?

Either way I haven't played far enough to see what you're talking about.

FE10 Ike. Most people are lowkey riding his dick and the rest of the peeps that don't like him are critized for it.

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Guest Dreamyboi
1 minute ago, Michelaar said:

FE10 Ike. Most people are lowkey riding his dick and the rest of the peeps that don't like him are critized for it.

I guess he's earned the respect at that point? I don't know, I'll have to see once I get around to Radiant Dawn.

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1 minute ago, Dreamyboi said:

I guess he's earned the respect at that point? I don't know, I'll have to see once I get around to Radiant Dawn.

It's honestly really annoying and he makes the game much less fun for me. It should have really been just about Micaiah and Elincia. Ike has turned into a complete marysue. 

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On 3/14/2018 at 10:00 AM, CatManThree said:

Three massive themes in Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn were racism, religion, and political corruption. The way it executed these themes worked because the games weaved it into the lore and foundation of the world they are based in. If another FE game can manage to do that again without feeling forced, I'd be down for it.

Pretty sure that political corruption is a common theme in FE plots. I'm not sure what to say on its execution of religion, but I feel its execution of the racism theme was rather shallow; it didn't say anything much with it other than "racism's bad". I'd like each theme tackled to be delved into further than that.

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I agree that the villains should be shades of gray, it makes them more interesting.  However I also think the heroes should also be flawed, even the main character.  I am hoping we get a bit of a different time period, perhaps slightly more modern, or perhaps going further into the past.  I hope the main protagonist is a manakete.  Perhaps manaketes are low in number and they have all been rounded up, their stones taken, forced to work in harsh slave labor camps.  The main protagonist taken there as a young child along with his parents, doesn't know anything of the outside world, everything he knows comes from inside this brutal environment.  Some of the older people talk of times when dragons flourished but it all seems like a myth.  His parents die of exhaustion and overwork, and perhaps some other loved much younger character who looks up to him/her is brutalized or dies as well.  He in a rage transforms into a dragon, despite having no stone, and kills all the humans in the camp.  He escapes with the survivors, set on war with the entire human race.  However along the way he finds out not all humans are like that.  He grows, learns, makes mistakes.  

I would like some very mature themes and a bigger focus on the consequences of war on the non participants.  I'd like it to be very serious, dark, with hope for the future but far from a tidy happy ending.  

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Guest Dreamyboi
13 hours ago, Tessie Spoon said:

Pretty sure that political corruption is a common theme in FE plots. I'm not sure what to say on its execution of religion, but I feel its execution of the racism theme was rather shallow; it didn't say anything much with it other than "racism's bad". I'd like each theme tackled to be delved into further than that.

Yeah.

Stories that have racism as a theme usually only go that far with it.

Edited by Dreamyboi

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I'm really hoping that the story isn't as bland as it was in Fates.
I want there to be a lot of world building to truly feel immersed.
Bring back magic types REE.

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I'm hoping this game does not have an Avatar/My Unit, cause in the 3 games we've had one, all it's done is drag down the story by having a self-inserted Mary/Gary Sue thrown in there. I can completely do without Kris, Robin and Corrin all together. I'd rather see an actual protagonist who is a Lord and don't have the spotlight stolen from them by an Avatar/My Unit. There's a number of reasons I wish the My Unit mechanic would be destroyed from gameplay perspective, but it hurts the stories even more.

Please no second generation mechanic. It worked best in Holy War and unless this is a remake of FE4, it can be done without. This is a mechanic I hope eventually dies along with My Unit and the waifu marriage thing that tends to all go together. 

Hopefully an actual villain who isn't generically evil like Garon was in Fates or the forgettable story we had in Awakening.

I would like to see heavy politics come back into Fire Emblem. Politics between warring nations with lots of grey shades instead of the easy black and white route that Fates went with Hoshido and Nohr. Through politics, there can be good world building too. 

 

 

 

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On 3/15/2018 at 8:57 PM, Tessie Spoon said:

Pretty sure that political corruption is a common theme in FE plots. I'm not sure what to say on its execution of religion, but I feel its execution of the racism theme was rather shallow; it didn't say anything much with it other than "racism's bad". I'd like each theme tackled to be delved into further than that.

The religious piece has mostly to do with Radiant Dawn and the misunderstandings behind stuff like Ashera by the people who worship her.

As for the political corruption, most FEs go with whole "the king\emperor is doing bad things". In the Telius games, the focus is more on the various people in high places abusing their power. Even in the case of Ashnard, despite being a generic power lusting ruler, the game focuses a lot on how he uses his position to get what he wants. I'm not saying Ashnard is the prime example of this theme, I'm just saying that even he has this theme applied onto him.

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