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What are you hoping for Story-wise?

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I want an atypical second generation campaign. Specifically, I want a normal time skip where the older pre-promoted units retire, the Est like units become the new really good units, and a variety of other younger characters with plot relevance graduate into the story as full fledged characters now that they are old enough to fight, becoming the new Est archetype characters. Meanwhile, characters that were the big powerhouses of the last campaign would become the new pre-promoted units with high bases and low growths.

I think that this would be a fun new childless take on how to create an extended story campaign while still making the experience feel fresh and character driven. I doubt this will happen though because BuT mE WAIFUZ.

Edited by NPR

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20 hours ago, NPR said:

I want an atypical second generation campaign. Specifically, I want a normal time skip where the older pre-promoted units retire, the Est like units become the new really good units, and a variety of other younger characters with plot relevance graduate into the story as full fledged characters now that they are old enough to fight, becoming the new Est archetype characters. Meanwhile, characters that were the big powerhouses of the last campaign would become the new pre-promoted units with high bases and low growths.

I think that this would be a fun new childless take on how to create an extended story campaign while still making the experience feel fresh and character driven. I doubt this will happen though because BuT mE WAIFUZ.

So.... Basically Genealogy of the Holy War minus Alvis inviting everyone to a barbeque at the castle?

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I just want a story that doesn't make me want to yell at any of the characters because of their stupidity. Seriously, why would you put a known serial killer as the crown prince's retainer and then try to paint him as righteous. That stuff just makes him look so corrupt. Why is it that the family member that hates my guts is the only one I relate too? None of them have seen me for years, I just killed their step mom (by accident), and I may have even razed their kingdom but everyone still loves me because we are blood family. Except we are not because I need to be able to marry everyone even if it creates plot holes. Honestly, IS can write the most generic FE story ever and I would love it just because Fates lowered my expectations so flipping much.

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22 hours ago, YingofDarkness said:

Honestly, IS can write the most generic FE story ever and I would love it just because Fates lowered my expectations so flipping much.

Fates was a total disaster, which is why when we got Echoes it took a while for people to notice it's own flaws because we were all in "At least it's better than Fates" mode (like praising Berkut because he wasn't one dimensional even though he wound up kinda lame anyway) and honestly that's not good. We shouldn't just hope for more than mediocre, we should hope for good. The Sonic fandom for example is in a constant state of accepting mediocre/bad/meh games because it's better than the all time lows in the series (Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic 06, Secret Rings, and Sonic Boom) and because of that there were people willing to praise Sonic Forces even though it featured a lame edgy villain, hit and miss music quality, inconsistent physics, lazy level design, massive amounts of missed potential, wonky controls, false advertising via nostalgia pandering, player worship via funny looking avatar character, and bad writing that tried to be serious and lighthearted at the same time and further grounded continuity into dust.

I'm hoping for better than Fates too man, I agree. It's just that I hope they try something different this time around and HOPEFULLY it's better executed than Fates' dumpster fire plot.

Edited by Dreamyboi

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I am probably in the minority, but I crave something cerebral and difficult (probably because I recently watched and read a lot of hard speculative fiction lately (The Buried Giant, Annihilation, Sunshine, The Handmaid's Tale)) rather than simple and emotional. I would rather have something radically different story-wise than a typical continent at war/cult-dragon story. If the new installment can dive into difficult themes of humanity, nature, and/or the cosmos, that would be an instant buy for me. I am not one who cares if a story should please the general audience/players. I personally find those kinds of stories forgetful and ultimately disposable in the long term whereas "artsy" works that tend to alienate general audiences tend to stick with me. 

I am more of a person that leans towards complex ideas and themes rather than characters, so I don't care if FE16 happens to be radically different story-wise. Tellius and Jugdral I consider the best the series can currently achieve when dealing with the usual Fire Emblem storytelling.

Edited by BZL8

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1 hour ago, BZL8 said:

I am probably in the minority, but I crave something cerebral and difficult (probably because I recently watched and read a lot of hard speculative fiction lately (The Buried Giant, Annihilation, Sunshine, The Handmaid's Tale)) rather than simple and emotional. I would rather have something radically different story-wise than a typical continent at war/cult-dragon story. If the new installment can dive into difficult themes of humanity, nature, and/or the cosmos, that would be an instant buy for me. I am not one who cares if a story should please the general audience/players. I personally find those kinds of stories forgetful and ultimately disposable in the long term whereas "artsy" works that tend to alienate general audiences tend to stick with me. 

I am more of a person that leans towards complex ideas and themes rather than characters, so I don't care if FE16 happens to be radically different story-wise. Tellius and Jugdral I consider the best the series can currently achieve when dealing with the usual Fire Emblem storytelling.

That actually sounds really interesting.

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21 hours ago, Dreamyboi said:

Fates was a total disaster, which is why when we got Echoes it took a while for people to notice it's own flaws because we were all in "At least it's better than Fates" mode (like praising Berkut because he wasn't one dimensional even though he wound up kinda lame anyway) and honestly that's not good. We shouldn't just hope for more than mediocre, we should hope for good. The Sonic fandom for example is in a constant state of accepting mediocre/bad/meh games because it's better than the all time lows in the series (Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic 06, Secret Rings, and Sonic Boom) and because of that there were people willing to praise Sonic Forces even though it featured a lame edgy villain, hit and miss music quality, inconsistent physics, lazy level design, massive amounts of missed potential, wonky controls, false advertising via nostalgia pandering, player worship via funny looking avatar character, and bad writing that tried to be serious and lighthearted at the same time and further grounded continuity into dust.

I'm hoping for better than Fates too man, I agree. It's just that I hope they try something different this time around and HOPEFULLY it's better executed than Fates' dumpster fire plot.

Generic doesn't mean mediocre. I just want a good generic FE tale with all important story information (this includes the villain's backstories) placed in the actual game, and not relegated to DLC. I have been reading through this thread for a while now, and have noticed just how many people seem to have so much faith in IS after the screw ups they did in Fates. Would I love something different? Yes, but do I trust them to deliver a good story if they try to do something out of their comfort zone again? No.

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16 minutes ago, YingofDarkness said:

Generic doesn't mean mediocre. I just want a good generic FE tale with all important story information (this includes the villain's backstories) placed in the actual game, and not relegated to DLC. I have been reading through this thread for a while now, and have noticed just how many people seem to have so much faith in IS after the screw ups they did in Fates. Would I love something different? Yes, but do I trust them to deliver a good story if they try to do something out of their comfort zone again? No.

I definitely see what you mean. I mean if they really wanted to make something great while also in their comfort zone they could try taking inspiration from the Tellius/Jugdral games I guess since the storytelling in those games are often praised, but something tells me they probably wont even try that. Which is honestly a depressing thought. After they thoroughly botched what could have been something truly great with Fates and only half improved Gaiden with it's remake I've been back and forth with how how I'm anticipating FE Switch. 

I hope it's not a resurrection of Fates' bad aspects, but I hope it's not the same lazy generic shit I've already seen. In the end though if I can only have one of those wishes granted I'd favor a generic story over a bad one. So again, good point.

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At the end of the day, it ultimately boils down to having the correct working collaboration between the director, writer, designer, programmer, and producer to produce a good story. I felt that in the case of ''Fates'', the writing department was not in line with the other four.  I just feel that the series has already achieved what it is fully capable of with its usual storytelling elements in the form of the Judgral and Tellius games. At some point, you can't just rehash the same elements over and over otherwise people lose interest in the end. And if you mix old story elements with new story elements, the end result is likely a hodgepodge of underutilized ideas and story and a poor vision.  If IntSys wants to significantly overhaul the storytelling in the series, the jumping point from the 3DS to the Switch is the best opportunity to. And if they do overhaul the storytelling, don't mix the old with the new. Not all games need to rehash/include the same character and story archetypes.

The unique thing about the Fire Emblem games is that the general lack of connectivity (outside of DLC, spinoffs. and shoutouts) with other games in the series is that different stories can be told, not just the same old, same old. I am for one surprised that most games in the series feel derivative of or borrow significant elements from one another. 

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1 hour ago, Dreamyboi said:

I definitely see what you mean. I mean if they really wanted to make something great while also in their comfort zone they could try taking inspiration from the Tellius/Jugdral games I guess since the storytelling in those games are often praised, but something tells me they probably wont even try that. Which is honestly a depressing thought. After they thoroughly botched what could have been something truly great with Fates and only half improved Gaiden with it's remake I've been back and forth with how how I'm anticipating FE Switch. 

I hope it's not a resurrection of Fates' bad aspects, but I hope it's not the same lazy generic shit I've already seen. In the end though if I can only have one of those wishes granted I'd favor a generic story over a bad one. So again, good point.

I don't think you should count the Jugdral games. The head writer left prior to Roy's game and since then a lot of the other staff has probably left as well. Not everybody is gone of course, but as IS has gotten bigger with its multiple franchises they have had to hire more and more new staff. Tellius I'm unsure of. I haven't heard much about its development so I can't say if that was a one time thing as well, or if the utter failure of the games sales wise has made them skittish to try something in a similar vein. Fates was probably an experiment meant to go back to that kind of story telling, but they got too ambitious and then further ruined it by making it all revolve around how perfect you are. Fates performed well sales wise, but we don't really know how its story was received do we? Most of the backlash over on the West was because of the localization and three games concept, and the story wasn't really majorly panned except in the smaller FE fanbase from what I saw until much later. In Japan I heard the three games concept wasn't received well either but that is it. I don't know how big of a backlash the story itself had.

I guess I'm not sweating the story much because the characters are what make me care. I could be reading the most generic story ever, but if I love the characters I will happily call it a good story. The characters are something IS is good at making which is why I'm not that worried. Yes they can get tropey, but you still have some gems amongst the cast even in Fates. It is why I like it despite hating its story. You just have to dig through the supports to get to them, but that's fine because that is one of my favorite aspects of the game. I like to think that what they did with Echoes is an even better step in that direction as well. Even with a small pool of supports you have a colorful cast that didn't come off as too tropey or stupid. We just need to apply that to the main characters because they seem to be the ones that get the more lackluster support. Maybe because they have to appeal to more people so they tone them down?

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I'm kind of curbing my expectations for the story of the next game. Awakening isn't the worst, but Fates is pretty awful, and while not as laughably bad Echoes still has plenty of jarring issues. At this point I'm hoping that the story is either serviceable or so bad that it's funny; it's just really hard to have faith in this series ability to make a good story with their recent track record.

42 minutes ago, YingofDarkness said:

I guess I'm not sweating the story much because the characters are what make me care. I could be reading the most generic story ever, but if I love the characters I will happily call it a good story. The characters are something IS is good at making which is why I'm not that worried. Yes they can get tropey, but you still have some gems amongst the cast even in Fates. It is why I like it despite hating its story. You just have to dig through the supports to get to them, but that's fine because that is one of my favorite aspects of the game. I like to think that what they did with Echoes is an even better step in that direction as well. Even with a small pool of supports you have a colorful cast that didn't come off as too tropey or stupid. We just need to apply that to the main characters because they seem to be the ones that get the more lackluster support. Maybe because they have to appeal to more people so they tone them down?

Echoes side cast was pretty much all that kept me engaged with how likable, down to earth or with just the bit of nuance they seemed to have within their few supports. Between the golden boy, Alm, Celica the mule (as in idiotically stubborn), and Rudolph with his ridiculous plan that could go wrong in a million different ways the main story was hard to care for. As I reached the end I couldn't help but wish Clive was my main character. I hope FE 16 will give us a decent supporting cast as well as decent leads.

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56 minutes ago, YingofDarkness said:

Yes they can get tropey, but you still have some gems amongst the cast even in Fates.

I'm glad there are more people who notice this. So many FE fans who criticize Awakening and Fates are too willing to dismiss the entire cast as one note garbage until Ghast comes along and does the research for them.

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7 hours ago, BZL8 said:

I am probably in the minority, but I crave something cerebral and difficult (probably because I recently watched and read a lot of hard speculative fiction lately (The Buried Giant, Annihilation, Sunshine, The Handmaid's Tale)) rather than simple and emotional. I would rather have something radically different story-wise than a typical continent at war/cult-dragon story. If the new installment can dive into difficult themes of humanity, nature, and/or the cosmos, that would be an instant buy for me. I am not one who cares if a story should please the general audience/players. I personally find those kinds of stories forgetful and ultimately disposable in the long term whereas "artsy" works that tend to alienate general audiences tend to stick with me. 

I am more of a person that leans towards complex ideas and themes rather than characters, so I don't care if FE16 happens to be radically different story-wise. Tellius and Jugdral I consider the best the series can currently achieve when dealing with the usual Fire Emblem storytelling.

I'm down for this as well, but honestly I doubt they could succeed... prove me wrong IS.

It would be nice to at least have something new. Medieval fantasy is well and good but a new setting would be exciting.

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9 hours ago, Dreamyboi said:

I'm glad there are more people who notice this. So many FE fans who criticize Awakening and Fates are too willing to dismiss the entire cast as one note garbage until Ghast comes along and does the research for them.

There's a reason I hate the "everyone's a trope" complaint about Awakening (haven't played Fates), yet I can't blame anyone for having it. It's a gross summarization of a cast who appears one-note at first glance, but they gain more depth and characterization the more you dive into their supports and backstory. At the same time, Awakenings support system is a very sharp double edged sword. Seriously, go onto the Fire Emblem Wiki, pick a character, and just read through their supports, and you'll as easily come across some of the best written supports in the series, along with something that was clearly written, edited, and finalized in 5-10 minutes so the writer could make the lunch break on time.

 

As for the topic itself, I'd personally like it if they went the path that Battle for Wesnoth went and have multiple stories, each with their own unique mechanics and difficulty, and well as allowing IS to update the game as they please, but I know full well of the downsides of this path as well.

 

In general, I'd like a human based conflict with multiple endings which are dependent on the choices made both in gameplay and in the story. I'd like the grey morality to be handled a bit more how is in Mercenaries: Playground of Destruction (where some sides clearly have a higher moral ground than others, but all sides have some flaws that prevent them from being fully supportable, yet only one faction is truly evil, and each side has their virtues) than the typical grey vs gray fare, with the ability to play as a different side after beating the game. I also wouldn't mind if dragons and shapeshifters appeared in the story, but more as side characters and mercenaries than blatant good/bad guys, with them either trying to avoid the conflict altogether, or them trying to use it in a way that benefits them (although I want a dragon to serve as the dragon and to be the second-to-final boss instead of the final one. On that note, I'd also like it if dragon bosses and allies were more common, and if they had some more unique designs on top of that).

 

I also posted an idea a while ago on several different threads about how I think the "Claimant & Ruler" situations from Mount and Blade could work in a Fire Emblem game, and if you're curious:

Spoiler

Admittedly [these ideas] aren't entirely my own, but I always thought that the "Claimant and Ruler" situations in Mount and Blade could work very well in a Fire Emblem game. There's always a preset ruler to each kingdom, and a claimant to the throne, with both characters having their own balanced reasonings for why they should be in charge, with the player ultimately deciding which side to support. You can check out the tv trope page here, but as for the ones I think would work best in a Fire Emblem game:

(A few notes beforehand. 1. I haven't played the game enough to see every single conflict, so I have to go of TV Tropes and secondhand knowledge here to fill in the details. 2. Some details were added by me to insert more drama and grayness to the conflict. 3. As I said earlier, these are not my own ideas. They came from the game Mount and Blade. I just think they would work especially well in a Fire Emblem game. One can have similar ideas while still being unique from one another.)

  • In a warrior nation, the claimant is a scholar who wishes to guide the nation towards more scientific activities, making sure the nation is balanced in both strength and intelligence. However, the current king disposed of him by claiming that their nation needs to be lead only by strong warriors. However, said king is a very reasonable leader, willing to listen to ideas that are not his own, and he takes criticism gracefully. We's also willing to listen to even lowly mercenaries if they prove their martial prowess. The claimant has all the virtues (and flaws) of a character who you'd expect to rely more on intellect and tactics than simple strength, although he is a fine warrior in his own right/way.
  • When the king died, it left two (half-)brothers in line for the throne. Knowing that the inheritance laws of the nation would inevitably lead to an unneeded and most likely bloody civil war, one of the brothers declares himself king while the other is out defending the border, partially because he believes that he's the better ruler of the two, but also because he does not want to have his brother killed. However, the other brother claims that the decision was unfair, as he was defending the border when he heard of his fathers death, and thus had no say in the matter. He also claims that he did more of the nations leg-work than his brother did, and it could have been possible to avoid a civil war if the two simply talked about the matter.
  • A generation earlier, the king was usurped by his brother, forcing the king and his child to go into hiding, while the brother lead a tyrannical reign until his death. His son, though bluntly admitting that what his father did was immoral and thus has no pride in him, refuses to give up the throne to his cousin, the rightful heir since the king had died in the meantime, and wishes to use the use the power that he's been given to undo the damage of his father. As for the claimant, even though their journey is similar to previous lords, their personality could vary wildly, having both great strengths and virtues, but also considerable (and potentially fatal) flaws.
  • In a kingdom that allows slavery, there is a slave girl working for the royal family. Greatly impressed by her intellect, wit, and managerial (and potentially combat) skills, and the fact that they have no children of their own, the King and Queen adopt her, much to the ire of another royal family, who had toiled greatly for years on end, even having lost some close friends and family to war, to become worthy of being the Kingdoms successor. When the fatal day came that the king and queen died, both sides took actions to ensure they would be come the kingdoms successors, and with the noble family appearing to have succeeded. However, both sides had gained support throughout the years, with the slave girl impressing many people with her intellect and leadership abilities, and for being a hope to many of slaves and common folk alike for having a ruler who wasn't of noble birth, while others would remember the great deeds, accomplishments, and sacrifices of the noble family that they can't help but admire them or feel as if they are indebted to them, which leads to a large scale conflict.

 

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I never want to see an Avatar/MU implemented in a Fire Emblem game ever again. They have all sabotaged the agency and focus of those stories, they all are just kind perfect for no good reason (especially Corrin -- who is, at least in Conquest.

As for story/setting, I'd actually be very interested in the tech level of the next fire emblem game moving forward about a century. I would be interested to see EARLY-renaissance timeframe, with really, really early muskets  or something of the sort. Make them the ranged equivalent of axes or something. I want IS to bring us a politically heavy, GoT style story with betrayals and complex motivations behind the characters, in a slightly new setting. No more final god/dragon/demon boss. I want there to be no supernatural influence on the storyline -- make it driven by people exclusively. There can be a church that causes problems,  but let them just be some crazed loonies without an actual god.

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I'm not hoping for anything, because I sincerely doubt IS is going to deviate from the formula that's pulled in the money necessary to financially salvage the franchise.  There's going to be an Avatar, a waifu sim, babby soldier eugenics, and the barest excuse of a plot involving cartoon villainy/a giant-ass crazy dragon, all to justify having a war so your soldiers can beat the shit out of hundreds of other people with flaming chainsaw swords from God while wearing skimpy sorcerer outfits and bridal costumes.

Having a serious plot's either going to be too edgy for the censors, or it's going to remove the stuff that makes the games sell.  Probably both, TBH.  So it's just not happening.

Guess I'll dream, anyway.  SPOILERS follow for Fates, I suppose.

*I want the Avatar to be a Villager unit.  Shitty bases, awesome growths/potential, and then you control what weapon they start off with and the usual 'customization' things one does with an Avatar.  However, said unit is also COMPLETELY SILENT, save for when prompting the player to give some input.  They never say or do a single thing that the player doesn't directly dictate to them, and they are -not the focus of the story-.  Certain things you choose for them to do or say can have a dramatic impact on that story, but they are not the primary agency of the plot.  They can be a saint or an asshole, or neutral, all depending on the player's choices.  This is the key issue with all of the other Avatars so far: they do shit without our input, and they do this a LOT.  Kris is incapable of keeping their mouth shut, Robin practically steals the game from Chrom, and Corrin is the logical conclusion of this nonsense.  "Mark, but a deployable unit" <- that's what we want, ASSUMING that the Avatar's absolutely going to happen whether we like it or not (and it is).

*Make the waifu simulator DLC.  Dead fucking serious.  Just make that an entirely separate, non-canon, optional piece of the game you can purchase for an extra 10 bucks or something.  If that's really what made the games sell in the first place, why not capitalize on it further?  Then, since it's not influencing the story directly, they can REALLY make it extra-crazy, just go completely nuts with it.  Everybody can fuck everybody else.  Train-chain-mutliplane ultra sex, whatever.  But they really, really need to keep this stuff away from the main game.  Support should be a strictly mechanical device, and instead of 'base conversations,' just...have CONVERSATIONS.  They don't need to be ranked in intensity or whatever, IS should know by now what a 'skip scene' function is, and know how to deploy it in a game.  Just let the poor bastards talk to each other without putting a whole bunch of mechanical obstacles in their way.

*Shift the infant soldier eugenics over to animal/monster/mount eugenics.  Raise supernatural creatures to ride around on, instead of trying to shoehorn in kids.  What I feel this does is satisfy the desire to add different Xs and Ys together to get the best Zs, but does it in a way that doesn't impact the main storyline with the presence of children who really shouldn't be involved with a frickin' war.  A specially-bred war bear with flaming claws on the other hand, yes.  Also, this can be used as a way to balance out mounted vs. unmounted classes, as the former tend to be very OP in Fire Emblem: well, now -nobody- has a free mount that never gets injured or needs food or whatever, and you can put members of different classes onto different types of mounts depending on their affinity for the unit.  You want your male Sage flying around on an ice-breathing Pegasus shooting off Fimbulvetr spells, better get to breeding horsies.

*As for antagonists, Fates was so close...and then they put in a giant fucking dragon.  Of COURSE they did.  All it had to be was "On the continent of (insert name here...no really, IS, fucking NAME IT),  not far from the land that would eventually become Archanea, thousands of years ago...the kingdom of Nohr, to the west, was resource-starved and suffering a drought/famine, and the kingdom of Hoshido, to the east, were polite but also xenophobic assholes wrapped up in their little bubble utopia who didn't want to get involved.  Thus, King Garon of Nohr just goes all out on the Hoshidans in desperation, left no other choice to save the lives and well-being of his people."  That's it.  You have your not-too-complicated, not-too-black-and-white backdrop for a compelling war story.  NO.  DRAGONS.  AT.  ALL.  Anankos is POINTLESS BULLSHIT.  Corrin did NOT have to be half-dragon.  The royal families did NOT have to be dragon-blooded.  IS did NOT need to insert Awakening expies into the cast for the sole purpose of dealing with the giant dragon that did NOT need to be there in the first place.  It's aggravating as hell having watched IS build up this potential, and then just utterly ruin it.  Garon would totally have rocked it as 'dark Santa', genuinely a kind man but unable to see any recourse in avoiding his violence-inducing and devastating choices, ya know?  But nope, dragon-possessed and makes Kefka look like Mother Teresa.  UGH.  So yeah, just...get rid of the uber-dragons.  Seriously IS, had enough of them.

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3 hours ago, EdeaCreamer said:

*Shift the infant soldier eugenics over to animal/monster/mount eugenics.  Raise supernatural creatures to ride around on, instead of trying to shoehorn in kids.  What I feel this does is satisfy the desire to add different Xs and Ys together to get the best Zs, but does it in a way that doesn't impact the main storyline with the presence of children who really shouldn't be involved with a frickin' war.  A specially-bred war bear with flaming claws on the other hand, yes.  Also, this can be used as a way to balance out mounted vs. unmounted classes, as the former tend to be very OP in Fire Emblem: well, now -nobody- has a free mount that never gets injured or needs food or whatever, and you can put members of different classes onto different types of mounts depending on their affinity for the unit.  You want your male Sage flying around on an ice-breathing Pegasus shooting off Fimbulvetr spells, better get to breeding horsies.

This is a veeery interesting idea I haven't heard before. I kind of like it. How would it be balanced though? Would everyone be able to ride a mount? We talking Genealogy 2: Electric Boogaloo?

Edit: ah, somehow missed the part where you say mounts would be costly. This is a great idea actually. Obviously there would be tier lists for who is best with which mount and so forth. Please IS, this sounds fun.

 

Edited by Book Bro

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Damn so much hate and negativity....I'm used to it here though.....but I digress. I just want something passable maybe add more lore into the central plot and more humanization to the world make me FEEL for them, feel their position there in, have me relate besides the playable characters a reason to fight for the people suffering or has big losses.

Edited by Blade Lord Lyn

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Guest Dreamyboi
6 hours ago, EdeaCreamer said:

*As for antagonists, Fates was so close...and then they put in a giant fucking dragon.  Of COURSE they did.  All it had to be was "On the continent of (insert name here...no really, IS, fucking NAME IT),  not far from the land that would eventually become Archanea, thousands of years ago...the kingdom of Nohr, to the west, was resource-starved and suffering a drought/famine, and the kingdom of Hoshido, to the east, were polite but also xenophobic assholes wrapped up in their little bubble utopia who didn't want to get involved.  Thus, King Garon of Nohr just goes all out on the Hoshidans in desperation, left no other choice to save the lives and well-being of his people."  That's it.  You have your not-too-complicated, not-too-black-and-white backdrop for a compelling war story.  NO.  DRAGONS.  AT.  ALL.  Anankos is POINTLESS BULLSHIT.  Corrin did NOT have to be half-dragon.  The royal families did NOT have to be dragon-blooded.  IS did NOT need to insert Awakening expies into the cast for the sole purpose of dealing with the giant dragon that did NOT need to be there in the first place.  It's aggravating as hell having watched IS build up this potential, and then just utterly ruin it.  Garon would totally have rocked it as 'dark Santa', genuinely a kind man but unable to see any recourse in avoiding his violence-inducing and devastating choices, ya know?  But nope, dragon-possessed and makes Kefka look like Mother Teresa.  UGH.  So yeah, just...get rid of the uber-dragons.  Seriously IS, had enough of them.

Anankos and the concept of the third path in general kinda fucked the game over that way.

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I've said it before, but I think it would be interesting with an experimentation in story structure. I've been advocating the idea that you play as one protagonist and their crew first, and then around halfway, after a few years worth of a time skip or so, they become the villains you have to stop in the second half. Or, another spin on the two protagonists being on the opposite side of each other, you can control them simultaneously à la Alm and Celica, but instead of helping the other out you can try to impede the other side's progress, topped off with whoever gets to the final map first wins, giving us two different endings.

If that's too convoluted, then my answer gets more generic. A bit more realism and seriousness without going off the deep end, no evil cults or brainwashing dragons, some at least minor choices that can affect the roster or the next few maps, etc. I'd also still like to get away from the usual structure of a lord having their country threatened/invaded/taken over and them having to restore order; I'm sure there are other reasons for fighting to start brewing.

Granted, due to the massive influx of new fans and Fire Emblem Switch presumably going to be many people's first real Fire Emblem experience, I think they'll keep things very simple and traditional. That doesn't mean it'll have to be bad or anything, but I'm expecting a new world with a new cast, but with pervasive feeling of déjà vu for veterans as Intelligent Systems "goes back to basics" for the umpteenth time. They might cut back on the swords in order to make things easier for future spin-offs, however.

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Storywise it most likely as usual for FE standards will be simplistic to the core, traditional to what they usually do and passable as the series is known for especially for the big casual audience and newcomers coming in which I already said I'm ok with. I don't expect otherworldly complexing above and beyond storytelling that's what other JRPGs are for.

Edited by Blade Lord Lyn

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On 3/28/2018 at 8:09 PM, Dreamyboi said:

player worship via funny looking avatar character

 

I know this is a bit off topic, but as a Sonic fan, I feel I need to interject here. For one thing, the developer given reason for why the avatar in Forces looks so weird is because they "didn't want the player to be able to make a character cooler than Sonic/the canon cast." More importantly, I really wouldn't call the way the Rookie is treated in Forces player worship. Sonic is the only member of the cast who consistently says anything positive about them (and honestly I don't think that's bad since the Rookie is portrayed as having self-confidence issues and Sonic is clearly just trying to encourage them). Pretty much every single Avatar stage has at least one character say some permutation of "are you sure the Rookie can handle this?" And while they do congratulate them for doing a good job, it never comes off as anywhere near the level of My Unit characters in the FE games that have had them and I say this as someone who mostly has no problem with My Unit (so long as they don't make them the main lord again). 

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On 3/30/2018 at 1:36 PM, EdeaCreamer said:

*Make the waifu simulator DLC.  Dead fucking serious.  Just make that an entirely separate, non-canon, optional piece of the game you can purchase for an extra 10 bucks or something.  If that's really what made the games sell in the first place, why not capitalize on it further?  Then, since it's not influencing the story directly, they can REALLY make it extra-crazy, just go completely nuts with it.  Everybody can fuck everybody else.  Train-chain-mutliplane ultra sex, whatever.  But they really, really need to keep this stuff away from the main game.  Support should be a strictly mechanical device, and instead of 'base conversations,' just...have CONVERSATIONS.  They don't need to be ranked in intensity or whatever, IS should know by now what a 'skip scene' function is, and know how to deploy it in a game.  Just let the poor bastards talk to each other without putting a whole bunch of mechanical obstacles in their way.

Doing this wouldn't make them more money but have them lose it. I remember when Echoes was announced a lot of people were saying they wouldn't buy it unless it had support conversations. Obviously these were the more casual fans, but you need to keep them in mind because they are the majority. Like it or not if a good chunk gets pissed off the sales are going to suffer, and this is exactly the kind of thing that will piss them off. It doesn't do the base game any good either to take away supports because you don't learn anything about the majority of the characters that way. Base conversations and supports are the best way to learn about the minor characters that will never get enough time to shine in the main story because they don't play a big role. Just because IS has dastarized the concept doesn't mean they should be scrapped. All other games past after a certain point had them except for RD and that was one of the things people critiqued it for.

The line about just having the soldiers have conversations makes no sense either. Base conversations are conversations. Supports are conversations and only get weird at the S-support normally. If you meant that just have all members of the cast play a major role in the story then that is impossible. The main games usually have larger casts, and even Echoes, with a smaller cast, couldn't implement them all in the main story.

On 3/30/2018 at 1:36 PM, EdeaCreamer said:

*Shift the infant soldier eugenics over to animal/monster/mount eugenics.  Raise supernatural creatures to ride around on, instead of trying to shoehorn in kids.  What I feel this does is satisfy the desire to add different Xs and Ys together to get the best Zs, but does it in a way that doesn't impact the main storyline with the presence of children who really shouldn't be involved with a frickin' war.  A specially-bred war bear with flaming claws on the other hand, yes.  Also, this can be used as a way to balance out mounted vs. unmounted classes, as the former tend to be very OP in Fire Emblem: well, now -nobody- has a free mount that never gets injured or needs food or whatever, and you can put members of different classes onto different types of mounts depending on their affinity for the unit.  You want your male Sage flying around on an ice-breathing Pegasus shooting off Fimbulvetr spells, better get to breeding horsies.

This sounds like a horrible replacement for the eugenic feature to be honest (and I hate the eugenic stuff). The problem is that you are assuming that everybody that likes the eugenics sim does so because they like to min=max the kids stats and make them into super soldiers, and that isn't the case for the majority. The majority that like the eugenic sim like so because of the child characters themselves and you can't just replace them with mounts and assume the same people are going to like it. Not to mention the problems with actually breeding the mounts themselves. Why can these mounts suddenly attack when none could before them? Even Fates answered why there are male pegasus riders in their universe and not the others after all. Does the mounts being able to attack mean that every unit that can ride one will be able to double? One attack will be from the rider and the other from the mount. What about tripling? Would the mounts have their own stats and so be able to double even if the rider can't? How would we be able to raise these stats? Will they also gain experience while battling or is it purely going to be through the slog of a breeding mechanic? In that case how expensive are they going to be, and how readily available is the currency going to be? If we are breeding two mounts together will we still be able to keep the mounts? How long until we can use their offspring or are we going back to deeprealm bs again? I can go on but you get my point.

Edited by YingofDarkness

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Ew, people actually like the characterization of second-gen units? They're literally quirks given physical form; there's nothing of note about them except that you can min-max their stats. Except maybe Lucina, but she gets so much face-time she might as well not be one from a characterization standpoint (that and she's forced on you).

The rest of those points are just mechanical balance questions that would get addressed upon deciding to go with the idea (much like how pairing up or forging or MyCastle or any other of a number of innovations get added to the series).

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19 hours ago, YingofDarkness said:

Doing this wouldn't make them more money but have them lose it. I remember when Echoes was announced a lot of people were saying they wouldn't buy it unless it had support conversations. Obviously these were the more casual fans, but you need to keep them in mind because they are the majority. Like it or not if a good chunk gets pissed off the sales are going to suffer, and this is exactly the kind of thing that will piss them off. It doesn't do the base game any good either to take away supports because you don't learn anything about the majority of the characters that way. Base conversations and supports are the best way to learn about the minor characters that will never get enough time to shine in the main story because they don't play a big role. Just because IS has dastarized the concept doesn't mean they should be scrapped. All other games past after a certain point had them except for RD and that was one of the things people critiqued it for.

The line about just having the soldiers have conversations makes no sense either. Base conversations are conversations. Supports are conversations and the S-support normally. If you meant that just have all members of the cast play a major role in the story then that is impossible. The main games usually have larger casts, and even Echoes, with a smaller cast, couldn't implement them all in the main story.

This sounds like a horrible replacement for the eugenic feature to be honest. The problem is that you are assuming that everybody that likes the eugenics sim does so because they like to min=max the kids stats and make them into super soldiers, and that isn't the case for the majority. The majority that like the eugenic sim like so because of the child characters themselves and you can't just replace them with mounts and assume the same people are going to like it. Not to mention the problems with actually breeding the mounts themselves. Why can these mounts suddenly attack when none could before them? Even Fates answered why there are male pegasus riders in their universe and not the others after all. Does the mounts being able to attack mean that every unit that can ride one will be able to double? One attack will be from the rider and the other from the mount. What about tripling? Would the mounts have their own stats and so be able to double even if the rider can't? How would we be able to raise these stats? Will they also gain experience while battling or is it purely going to be through the slog of a breeding mechanic? In that case how expensive are they going to be, and how readily available is the currency going to be? If we are breeding two mounts together will we still be able to keep the mounts? How long until we can use their offspring or are we going back to deeprealm bs again? I can go on but you get my point.

Thank you seriously.....

Edited by Blade Lord Lyn

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