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CyberController

Class names that don't make sense?

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On 3/21/2018 at 3:10 AM, DragonFlames said:

And there is also the fact that heroes weren't always "good" by definition. Just look at Siegfried in the Niebelungenlied. He was anything but a "hero" by today's standards.
The definition of a hero as someone who does good deeds changed in the 12th century due to stories like King Arthur's Knights of the Round Table and the aforementioned Niebelungenlied. It was all part of a movement to educate the nobility of that time on how to act properly. The works were called "Chivalric romance".
I knew those three years and counting of literature studies would pay off!

He wasn't? I'm only vaguely familiar with the story, but I'd gotten the impression that he was fairly noble up to a point and then got corrupted by a tragic flaw or something.

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21 hours ago, RedRob said:

Eh, not really a misnomer there. It varies from religion to religion on whether a priest can marry.

This. Even if you just look at Christian priests, Catholic priests aren't allowed to marry, Protestant priests usually are allowed, while East Orthodox priests are allowed to marry so long as they were married before becoming priests.

Still, what is a priest doing on the battlefield? Even if they're just something along the lines of a combat medic. Perhaps if they were part of a militaristic monastic order like the Knights Hospitaller or Knights Templar.

Anyway, back to class names that don't make sense, a Berserker was basically a Viking Age champion; the name being believed to derive from them wearing bear pelts as a status symbol. At least Path of Radiance had the bear pelt bit. They weren't an upgraded bandit or anything like that. They probably used axes, though that's mainly because Viking Age warriors really liked using axes. 

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Paladin. In most fantasy works, Paladins have magical powers. But the Paladins in Fire Emblem can only use lances and swords.

Horseman. It's really vague, since a ton of classes use horses. It doesn't tell you that they can use bows and swords.

Mamluke in TearRing Saga. They were Muslim slaves trained in combat. None of the ones in TearRing are slaves.

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32 minutes ago, CyberController said:

Paladin. In most fantasy works, Paladins have magical powers. But the Paladins in Fire Emblem can only use lances and swords.

Horseman. It's really vague, since a ton of classes use horses. It doesn't tell you that they can use bows and swords.

Mamluke in TearRing Saga. They were Muslim slaves trained in combat. None of the ones in TearRing are slaves.

Well the Paladins were a real historic order who (presumably) couldn't use magic, so it's other fantasy works that are deviating from accuracy by making some kind of white magic combat healer.

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On 3/17/2018 at 7:14 PM, CyberController said:

Generals. They are just promoted Knights. They don't actually decide how the battle goes.

While this is true for many of the characters who promote to General. Almost all the pre promoted and unplayable generals are indeed authority figures.

Ma_nes01_general_playable.gif

Like to look at the General characters of FE1.

Portrait_boss_02_fe01.pngPortrait_boss_01_fe01.png

The majority of minor human bosses are of the General class

Portrait_jiol_fe01.png

King of Gra and General of its Armies, Jiol, is a General.

Portrait_lorenz_fe01.png

Lorenz, a revered General of Grust(Enemy nation) who ultimately leaves his nation for Marth's army, the only playable general.

Its the same in almost every game, Pre-promoted Generals used to lead Armies before they joined the player's army and boss characters love the General class.

In Berwick Saga, this is even clearer as no Generic Generals and members of the class usually have Charisma/Charm as a special skill.

On 3/18/2018 at 12:22 AM, NekoKnight said:

Chivalry, the code of principles that people associate with knights, is a word derived from old French meaning "horse soldiery", so cavaliers would be the most worthy of the titles of knights. To their credit, FE4&5 and 9&10 called their cavaliers knights and their armored infantry, armors. Of course, knighthood has meant different responsibilities and ideals throughout time so there isn't a concrete "class" they would fit into. 

In Japan, the class names are different.

1-capture_20121202_001.png

Cavalier is Social Knight, whose name is probably a mistranslation. I'm guessing they wanted Horse Knight.

Knight is Armor Knight, obviously. It was probably shortened overseas for space reasons.

On 3/17/2018 at 7:12 PM, DisobeyedCargo said:

Baron. It's a title of nobility

Thinking about it, pretty much all the default Barons are indeed noblemen of some sorts.

Take FE2.

Portrait_desaix_fe02.png

Desaix is a prime minister.

Portrait_magnus_fe02.png

Minor boss, Magnum is a decorated general of Rigel and likely a noble.

Bs_fe04_enemy_baron_sword.png

In FE4, every Baron unit was either nobility or even royalty.

 

Edited by Emperor Hardin

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Maid and Butler, last time I checked, you didn't take the catering staff onto the battlefield, normally they stay behind at the camp. Same could be said for a Dancer or Bard. 

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6 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

While this is true for many of the characters who promote to General. Almost all the pre promoted and unplayable generals are indeed authority figures.

Ma_nes01_general_playable.gif

Like to look at the General characters of FE1.

Portrait_boss_02_fe01.pngPortrait_boss_01_fe01.png

The majority of minor human bosses are of the General class

Portrait_jiol_fe01.png

King of Gra and General of its Armies, Jiol, is a General.

Portrait_lorenz_fe01.png

Lorenz, a revered General of Grust(Enemy nation) who ultimately leaves his nation for Marth's army, the only playable general.

Its the same in almost every game, Pre-promoted Generals used to lead Armies before they joined the player's army and boss characters love the General class.

In Berwick Saga, this is even clearer as no Generic Generals and members of the class usually have Charisma/Charm as a special skill.

In Japan, the class names are different.

Cavalier is Social Knight, whose name is probably a mistranslation. I'm guessing they wanted Horse Knight.

Knight is Armor Knight, obviously. It was probably shortened overseas for space reasons.

Thinking about it, pretty much all the default Barons are indeed noblemen of some sorts.

Take FE2.

Portrait_desaix_fe02.png

Desaix is a prime minister.

Portrait_magnus_fe02.png

Minor boss, Magnum is a decorated general of Rigel and likely a noble.

Bs_fe04_enemy_baron_sword.png

In FE4, every Baron unit was either nobility or even royalty.

 

FE5 throws a few Barons at you that just seem to be regular generals of the army without any noteable land ownership. Probably done purely to have mage armours. Though I suppose it could be an indication that loads of Grannvalian Generals have been given lands in Munster to rule over and are slowly performing a plantation.

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23 minutes ago, Jotari said:

FE5 throws a few Barons at you that just seem to be regular generals of the army without any noteable land ownership. Probably done purely to have mage armours. Though I suppose it could be an indication that loads of Grannvalian Generals have been given lands in Munster to rule over and are slowly performing a plantation.

True, though I wouldn't be surprised if many of them were Grannevalian nobles.

General, Baron, and Emperor also work as names as each is a higher title then the preceding class.

Edited by Emperor Hardin

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On 4/15/2018 at 6:33 PM, MyBoyHector said:

Maid and Butler, last time I checked, you didn't take the catering staff onto the battlefield, normally they stay behind at the camp. Same could be said for a Dancer or Bard. 

It does make sense on a thematic level. Maids/Butlers can heal their allies, and their weapons have low might, but allow them to weaken enemies. This means that they're a  support class, as you'd expect a servant to be.

 

But Butler isn't the male version of maid. It's the head servant of a household. So, "Butler", should be renamed "manservant".

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On 4/15/2018 at 9:33 PM, MyBoyHector said:

Maid and Butler, last time I checked, you didn't take the catering staff onto the battlefield, normally they stay behind at the camp. Same could be said for a Dancer or Bard. 

They're not supposed to leave the castles to which they tend. They should've made it the Squire class if they wanted maids and butlers that happen to be good at fighting to have a role on the battlefield. We're talking about Fates' and Intelligent System's marketing strategy here though so can't really expect too much realism.

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18 minutes ago, Ae†her said:

They're not supposed to leave the castles to which they tend. They should've made it the Squire class if they wanted maids and butlers that happen to be good at fighting to have a role on the battlefield. We're talking about Fates' and Intelligent System's marketing strategy here though so can't really expect too much realism.

While rare, some do leave the castle and fellow their lords while they go away for battle, however, they always stayed back at their tents at camp, managing supplies, serving food (especially in the medieval days. But I agree with you about the naming aspect of it. Squires would of made a hell of a lot more sense. Make it a Tier 0 class that could go into Soldier/Cav/Merc

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There is a type of Butler that is seen near combat. It is called, I shit you not, a batman. A military officer in the field during the Victorian era had one nearby at all times. Batmen probably had some skill in defending themselves or their masters, purely because they served masters who could possibly be minutes from capture at any moment.

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2 minutes ago, Hylian Air Force said:

There is a type of Butler that is seen near combat. It is called, I shit you not, a batman. A military officer in the field during the Victorian era had one nearby at all times. Batmen probably had some skill in defending themselves or their masters, purely because they served masters who could possibly be minutes from capture at any moment.

So Alfred, depending on the storyline, is Batman's batman? 

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3 hours ago, MyBoyHector said:

While rare, some do leave the castle and fellow their lords while they go away for battle, however, they always stayed back at their tents at camp, managing supplies, serving food (especially in the medieval days. But I agree with you about the naming aspect of it. Squires would of made a hell of a lot more sense. Make it a Tier 0 class that could go into Soldier/Cav/Merc

Seriously? Well I guess it is possible as a Butler is the only one you would charge with such tasks back home.

31 minutes ago, Hylian Air Force said:

There is a type of Butler that is seen near combat. It is called, I shit you not, a batman. A military officer in the field during the Victorian era had one nearby at all times. Batmen probably had some skill in defending themselves or their masters, purely because they served masters who could possibly be minutes from capture at any moment.

Yeah, I give up. The world is too big for things not to exist.

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7 hours ago, MyBoyHector said:

While rare, some do leave the castle and fellow their lords while they go away for battle, however, they always stayed back at their tents at camp, managing supplies, serving food (especially in the medieval days. But I agree with you about the naming aspect of it. Squires would of made a hell of a lot more sense. Make it a Tier 0 class that could go into Soldier/Cav/Merc

Yeah, but then you wouldn't get the fanservicw, which is the real reason the class exists.

5 hours ago, Hylian Air Force said:

There is a type of Butler that is seen near combat. It is called, I shit you not, a batman. A military officer in the field during the Victorian era had one nearby at all times. Batmen probably had some skill in defending themselves or their masters, purely because they served masters who could possibly be minutes from capture at any moment.

Damnit IS, do more research. That's too cool to not be in the game!

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On 4/24/2018 at 1:21 PM, CyberController said:

Gold Knight: Gold is a pretty bad metal for armor. It's soft and easily malleable.

Maybe it's just a thin layer of gold for decoration?

 

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On 4/24/2018 at 12:21 PM, CyberController said:

Gold Knight: Gold is a pretty bad metal for armor. It's soft and easily malleable.

Same with silver. 

Unless you're going with platinum, any of the premium metals will suck for armor. Better off sticking with iron or steel if you really want to intimidate. 

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On 24.4.2018 at 7:21 PM, CyberController said:

Gold Knight: Gold is a pretty bad metal for armor. It's soft and easily malleable.

I suspect that Gold and Silver Knights might derive their names from the Gold and Silver General pieces from Shōgi (a Japanese strategy board-game from the same family as Chess).

Edited by Diffuse

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On 20.3.2018 at 9:48 AM, DragonFlames said:

 

Same here.

Though I could imagine that this is accurate, as the Vikings were apparently people who believed paradise entailed bashing each other's heads in during the day, then getting resurrected in the evening, then getting wasted at night and repeating the cycle come morning.

Which is probably why they are called Ulfhedin-Alpha in the German translation, Ulf being an old Germanic word for wolf. I have no clue what 'hedin' means, though.
(Though I'd like to remind everyone here that no matter how many times Fates will try to convince you, the Wolfskin look nothing like actual wolves at all. If anything, they are more like bears and even that is a stretch. Evidence #343 that Nintendo has no clue which animal is which.)

On that note, the German translation of the Nine Tails class also makes no sense. A Kitsune is still a Kitsune, though the Nine Tails is a 'Fuchsgeist' which translates to 'Fox Spirit'. What, do they die during promotion or something? Why they didn't go for the more obvious 'Neunschwanz' (the accurate way to translate Nine Tails) is beyond me, but... the Germs always need to be something special, I guess.


This kind of stuff is the reason I play games and watch anime in English. I think I can count the number of instances where I prefer the German localisation of games or anime to the English version on one hand.

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"Goddess of Order" from the PAL English translation of Radiant Dawn. Well, at least I don't think that makes sense.

I mean, Ashera is not really a "Goddess of Order" isn't she? "Order" is not her domain in any way, it's just that she removed the chaos parts of her being. But that doesn't really affect her power over creation. So the way it looks to me, her NoA class name of "Order Incarnate" is actually more accurate. Of course her Japanese name was simply "Goddess", so I don't know why the localisation felt the need to get so creative her.

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11 hours ago, Funky Tim said:


This kind of stuff is the reason I play games and watch anime in English. I think I can count the number of instances where I prefer the German localisation of games or anime to the English version on one hand.

Radiant Dawn's voice acting, maybe? Because in the German version, it's actually really good. And the German localisation for Digimon was also really great, because they took their material directly from the Japanese release - music an all (voice acting wise, I prefer the German version of Digimon Tamers to the original, for example).
But I definitely agree with you otherwise.

Edited by DragonFlames

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On 4/11/2018 at 1:02 PM, Jotari said:

Well the Paladins were a real historic order who (presumably) couldn't use magic, so it's other fantasy works that are deviating from accuracy by making some kind of white magic combat healer.

The odd thing is that FE4 Paladin girls can use staves, like the D&D paladins can use magic.

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