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DarkSoul

Why does so many people hate this character???

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There's something that has been bothering for quite a long time, why does so many people hate Kris, the MU of New Mystery of The Emblem. Some say that is because he takes all the spotlight from Marth, I mean sure, sometimes I think he becomes too much of a hero for a deuteragonist, but still, I never saw him as such. Considering the fact that the MU customization began with him (Fire Emblem Rekka no Ken doesn't count, I'm sure you know why), of course there would be flaws, but it just seems that he's too much hated, he may not be the best MU and absolutely not the best character, but still he ain't the worse either. What do you guys think?

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16 minutes ago, DarkSoul said:

I mean sure, sometimes I think he becomes too much of a hero for a deuteragonist, but still, I never saw him as such.

You can't have it both ways lol. Do you think he's too much or not too much?

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Kris is my most hated character in the entire franchise for 4 reasons. One, he outright steals lines from Marth, 2. he's a second grader's self insert in a fan fiction, 3. FE3's themes get undermined outright by some of the scenes he steals, and most importantly 4. his existence in a game that is a remake of a Kaga FE is basically a giant fuck you  from IS to him when he has openly stated he doesn't want self  inserts in his games, basically by including him, IS pulled the equivalent of taking the first Super Mario Bros game, taking something Shigeru Miyamoto stated he absolutely hates in games, and remaking  the entire game to fit that specific addition. Reason 4 alone was enough to make me hate his guts, but let's go deeper shall we. FE3 was a story how history is not black and white and that understanding the actual truth of history is important, and FE12, to justify why Kris wasn't in FE3 , has Marth and co completely leave Kris out of the History Books. This is because Marth didn't learn the world's actual history in 12, with it instead being relegated to optional Base Convos between Kris and Jagen, completely shooting the theme of FE3 in the ass, and to further emphasize Marth not growing in 12, a moment in 3 that was meant to show how Marth had grown as a leader by coming up with a brillant war strategy that  prevented the War of Heroes from lasting significantly longer. That plan is made by Kris in 12, meaning Marth not only doesn't learn in 12, he doesn't grow either. Kris simply by existing actively takes away from an already bad remake's quality even further, to the point where I can't play 12 anymore without missing 3.  

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I reckon it all boils down to that one conversation with Elice early in the game where she basically calls Marth a pussy.

Edited by Jotari

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I don't feel the need to defend Marth's honor, nor do I especially have large gripes with the concept of avatars. I guess the thing that irks me most with Kris is that FE12 brings back support conversations after a 2 game hiatus, and 60% of those conversations are the Avatar with one of the other characters. And they're extremely formulaic. A foreboding vision of what support conversations would become, except EVERY character will get distilled into their most basic character tropes and jokes.

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I actually liked Kris over Corrin. Kris didn't have a unique class unlike the other MUs, he was just another soldier in Marth's army. The problem with MUs is that if the MU's position in the story is equivalent to a phase of the moon, Mark would be a new moon, Kris would be a crescent moon, Robin would be a half/gibbous moon, and Corn would be a full moon. Corrin was the worst MU in my opinion, as he wasn't the deuteragonist, he was the protagonist. In my opinion, MUs belong in the sidelines, providing support for the protagonist, somewhat like Mark.

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I lived for Jagen's disparaging comments about how bad Kris' stats were in my one particularly unlucky playthrough. They were hilarious. All through the supports Kris talks about how tough her grandfather's training was, and then Jagen's just like "lol no"

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Guest Dreamyboi

Based on what I've heard he's basically the worst My Unit in the series, being a combination of a boring as fuck worshipped mary sue and a spotlight (and achievement) stealing waste of space. So he's apparently everything wrong with Avatar units cranked up to eleven and after dealing with the utter shitshow that was Corrin it makes me not even want to touch FE12.

59 minutes ago, MCProductions said:

Kris is my most hated character in the entire franchise for 4 reasons. One, he outright steals lines from Marth, 2. he's a second grader's self insert in a fan fiction, 3. FE3's themes get undermined outright by some of the scenes he steals, and most importantly 4. his existence in a game that is a remake of a Kaga FE is basically a giant fuck you  from IS to him when he has openly stated he doesn't want self  inserts in his games, basically by including him, IS pulled the equivalent of taking the first Super Mario Bros game, taking something Shigeru Miyamoto stated he absolutely hates in games, and remaking  the entire game to fit that specific addition. Reason 4 alone was enough to make me hate his guts, but let's go deeper shall we. FE3 was a story how history is not black and white and that understanding the actual truth of history is important, and FE12, to justify why Kris wasn't in FE3 , has Marth and co completely leave Kris out of the History Books. This is because Marth didn't learn the world's actual history in 12, with it instead being relegated to optional Base Convos between Kris and Jagen, completely shooting the theme of FE3 in the ass, and to further emphasize Marth not growing in 12, a moment in 3 that was meant to show how Marth had grown as a leader by coming up with a brillant war strategy that  prevented the War of Heroes from lasting significantly longer. That plan is made by Kris in 12, meaning Marth not only doesn't learn in 12, he doesn't grow either. Kris simply by existing actively takes away from an already bad remake's quality even further, to the point where I can't play 12 anymore without missing 3.  

OOF. What a disaster.

Shit like this only makes it easier for me to believe that Robin is the only good Avatar character.

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2 hours ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

You can't have it both ways lol. Do you think he's too much or not too much?

Sorry, it's just my bad english attacking again, I meant that for a deuteragonist, he plays too much the role of protagonist.

1 hour ago, MCProductions said:

Kris is my most hated character in the entire franchise for 4 reasons. One, he outright steals lines from Marth, 2. he's a second grader's self insert in a fan fiction, 3. FE3's themes get undermined outright by some of the scenes he steals, and most importantly 4. his existence in a game that is a remake of a Kaga FE is basically a giant fuck you  from IS to him when he has openly stated he doesn't want self  inserts in his games, basically by including him, IS pulled the equivalent of taking the first Super Mario Bros game, taking something Shigeru Miyamoto stated he absolutely hates in games, and remaking  the entire game to fit that specific addition. Reason 4 alone was enough to make me hate his guts, but let's go deeper shall we. FE3 was a story how history is not black and white and that understanding the actual truth of history is important, and FE12, to justify why Kris wasn't in FE3 , has Marth and co completely leave Kris out of the History Books. This is because Marth didn't learn the world's actual history in 12, with it instead being relegated to optional Base Convos between Kris and Jagen, completely shooting the theme of FE3 in the ass, and to further emphasize Marth not growing in 12, a moment in 3 that was meant to show how Marth had grown as a leader by coming up with a brillant war strategy that  prevented the War of Heroes from lasting significantly longer. That plan is made by Kris in 12, meaning Marth not only doesn't learn in 12, he doesn't grow either. Kris simply by existing actively takes away from an already bad remake's quality even further, to the point where I can't play 12 anymore without missing 3.  

 

57 minutes ago, Dreamyboi said:

Based on what I've heard he's basically the worst My Unit in the series, being a combination of a boring as fuck worshipped mary sue and a spotlight (and achievement) stealing waste of space. So he's apparently everything wrong with Avatar units cranked up to eleven and after dealing with the utter shitshow that was Corrin it makes me not even want to touch FE12.

OOF. What a disaster.

Shit like this only makes it easier for me to believe that Robin is the only good Avatar character.

I see, so mostly of the hate directed to him is because, like I said, he steals Marth spotlight and his development across the game and he's too much of a Mary Sue, like if he has no personality. I have to agree, it seems the guys responsible for the Avatar System were a little too much inspired and forgot who is the true protagonist. It's kinda ironic since, in my opinion, any Avatar System in any game was made to, in a manner of speaking, give the player a chance to participate in the game, with a character who represents himself, but in the end, people didn't enjoyed too much the idea, I guess that's why Robin and Mark are the only ones who people seem to tolerate, since Robin kinda has his own personality and more or less good backstory (I feel like they should had just made him a normal character, not an MU, in this case) and Mark is... well... just Mark. He has no actual backstory, he isn't a unit, he's a fourth wall breaker, meant to really be the player and his presence doesn't affect absolutely nothing in the game ( You can even play without creating him, like if he never existed). So, do you guys think they should just give up with MU?

 

 

 

 

Forgot to say, Marth is my least favorite lord, I don't know why, I just don't like him :D:

Edited by DarkSoul

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All Kris had to do was shut up when Marth and Jagen were talking. If he was a generic character who did nothing in the story after recruited (hell, even after the prologues) then I don't think anyone would mind him.

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6 minutes ago, hanhnn said:

You don't like him because of Kris.

No, I just don't like him, no good reason. I don't like Kris either, I just wanted to know why people hated him so much. Guess that's pretty clear already.

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1 hour ago, Dreamyboi said:

Based on what I've heard he's basically the worst My Unit in the series, being a combination of a boring as fuck worshipped mary sue and a spotlight (and achievement) stealing waste of space. So he's apparently everything wrong with Avatar units cranked up to eleven and after dealing with the utter shitshow that was Corrin it makes me not even want to touch FE12.

OOF. What a disaster.

Shit like this only makes it easier for me to believe that Robin is the only good Avatar character.

this seems like very poor reasoning to not want to play a game, I mean going off word of mouth just to decide what is good and bad is very misguided, I understand the stuff about kris being the opposite of what kaga would have wanted (I doubt it was intentional, kaga was probably the last thing on the devs mind in development), but aside from that it seems very closed minded to just say that something is bad just because a few people said they hated it for x reason, I detest awakening and consider it to be an all time low for the series in regards of gameplay purely because you can easily solo the game with robin, I don't think that it would be a good idea for someone to just instantly draw the conclusion that the game is bad just because I have a vendetta against it.

just to note, I have not played fe12 and have more interest in fe3 personally due to some mechanics, I intend this to be about using the only opinion that should be listened to in this case and that is one crafted by personal experience, only then should you consider what others have to say on the matter.

mark was the trashiest of the avatar trash IMO.

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42 minutes ago, thecrimsonflash said:

 

just to note, I have not played fe12 and have more interest in fe3 personally due to some mechanics,

I'm assuming the dragons?

Because... what else is there? The original FE3 is probably my least favourite Fire Emblem and perhaps the only one I've only played once. There is no doubt in my mind that New Mystery is a better game, despite not being one of the best FE games either.

(also, I do not mind Kris...)

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Guest Dreamyboi
1 hour ago, thecrimsonflash said:

this seems like very poor reasoning to not want to play a game, I mean going off word of mouth just to decide what is good and bad is very misguided, I understand the stuff about kris being the opposite of what kaga would have wanted (I doubt it was intentional, kaga was probably the last thing on the devs mind in development), but aside from that it seems very closed minded to just say that something is bad just because a few people said they hated it for x reason, I detest awakening and consider it to be an all time low for the series in regards of gameplay purely because you can easily solo the game with robin, I don't think that it would be a good idea for someone to just instantly draw the conclusion that the game is bad just because I have a vendetta against it.

just to note, I have not played fe12 and have more interest in fe3 personally due to some mechanics, I intend this to be about using the only opinion that should be listened to in this case and that is one crafted by personal experience, only then should you consider what others have to say on the matter.

mark was the trashiest of the avatar trash IMO.

I already don't have high hopes for Kris not JUST because of what I've heard from people who have played the game So far the closest thing I've seen to positive reaction toward him are "I don't mind him" but because of my opinion toward My Units in general. I was expressing my distaste toward that kind of thing, may have exaggerrated. I'm sure the game itself is fine.

Though I still don't have much interest in playing it, at least not until I get through Shadow Dragon.

Edited by Dreamyboi

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4 hours ago, MCProductions said:

Kris is my most hated character in the entire franchise for 4 reasons. One, he outright steals lines from Marth, 2. he's a second grader's self insert in a fan fiction, 3. FE3's themes get undermined outright by some of the scenes he steals, and most importantly 4. his existence in a game that is a remake of a Kaga FE is basically a giant fuck you  from IS to him when he has openly stated he doesn't want self  inserts in his games, basically by including him, IS pulled the equivalent of taking the first Super Mario Bros game, taking something Shigeru Miyamoto stated he absolutely hates in games, and remaking  the entire game to fit that specific addition. Reason 4 alone was enough to make me hate his guts, but let's go deeper shall we. FE3 was a story how history is not black and white and that understanding the actual truth of history is important, and FE12, to justify why Kris wasn't in FE3 , has Marth and co completely leave Kris out of the History Books. This is because Marth didn't learn the world's actual history in 12, with it instead being relegated to optional Base Convos between Kris and Jagen, completely shooting the theme of FE3 in the ass, and to further emphasize Marth not growing in 12, a moment in 3 that was meant to show how Marth had grown as a leader by coming up with a brillant war strategy that  prevented the War of Heroes from lasting significantly longer. That plan is made by Kris in 12, meaning Marth not only doesn't learn in 12, he doesn't grow either. Kris simply by existing actively takes away from an already bad remake's quality even further, to the point where I can't play 12 anymore without missing 3.  

This, all of this.

Kris just causes Marth's development in Shadow Dragon to go down the drain - and as Marth is my favourite FE Lord...it's honestly the most offensive thing that IS has ever done.

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I played FE 12 about 2 years ago and I don't think horribly of the character. Kris is just okay, I don't feel strongly one waty or another about the character.

One point to Kris is that he or she didn't need the POWER OF FRIENDSHIP to defeat the final boss.

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12 minutes ago, Captain Karnage said:

One point to Kris is that he or she didn't need the POWER OF FRIENDSHIP to defeat the final boss.

Agreed. That concept is a bit too cliche and is also sort of an ass-pull.

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As I think most people in this thread have mentioned, a lot of people see Kris as a Mary-Sue who ruins Marth's character.

Personally, I think the side-story with the assassins was fine, I just wish Kris didn't get involved as much with the main story. I'm against having avatars in fire emblem generally though, the only good one is Kiran.

HOWEVER, I definitely don't think Kris is worth not playing New Mystery over. It's still a solid installment in the series with great maps and gameplay, and if you've never played FE3 before, I don't think the story suffers THAT much. Also, Kris gets wear funny hats, so that's a pretty big plus imho.

Still better than Corrin.

Edited by Solvaij

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5 hours ago, Vince777 said:

I'm assuming the dragons?

Because... what else is there? The original FE3 is probably my least favourite Fire Emblem and perhaps the only one I've only played once. There is no doubt in my mind that New Mystery is a better game, despite not being one of the best FE games either.

(also, I do not mind Kris...)

There's also the Crusaders Scroll desgin for the Star Shards.

2 hours ago, Solvaij said:

As I think most people in this thread have mentioned, a lot of people see Kris as a Mary-Sue who ruins Marth's character.

Personally, I think the side-story with the assassins was fine, I just wish Kris didn't get involved as much with the main story. I'm against having avatars in fire emblem generally though, the only good one is Kiran.

HOWEVER, I definitely don't think Kris is worth not playing New Mystery over. It's still a solid installment in the series with great maps and gameplay, and if you've never played FE3 before, I don't think the story suffers THAT much. Also, Kris gets wear funny hats, so that's a pretty big plus imho.

Still better than Corrin.

Agreed. His/her desire to put anything on their face is by far their most endering quality.

Edited by Jotari

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He superseded Marth. That's the entire reason, plus he's a boring, generic character with nothing to like about him. At least Marth had charisma, Kris lacks even that.

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Everybody hates Kris? (Haha funny joke, i'll be leaving now)

Tbh, i didn't mind Kris that much. I mean, sure, he did steal spotlight from Marth and Jaegan but honestly, i feel that he was FE's best attempt at an Avatar (which isn't saying much). There were a decent number of customization options. Hell, even his origin could be customized to an extent. He's the most "Avatar" out of all FE's Avatars (no, Mark doesn't count).

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Sorry if this is a bit off-topic, but I have a hypothesis as to why so many people hate the Avatar characters in Fire Emblem. It's because they are supposed to be "us", the player. I think that, subconsciously, when our character acts in a certain way, we think that they should act like we would and are disappointed if they don't. And this subconscious thought is what partly determines our thoughts on the Avatar concept and how we judge its execution in a game.

So, easy fix: Have the Avatar be a silent protagonist and give us dialogue choices, like Etrian Odyssey or Persona. There you go.

Edited by DragonFlames

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