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Story Issues - My Headcanon On How They're Resolved


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Hmm...I mean, I see what you're saying, it sounds rational, and I do believe the writing was a little shaky throughout that whole section...but for some reason, it's never really broke me, if that makes sense.  It was stupid on Celica's part, obviously...but it wasn't stupid in a way that made me think "ok, Celica would never make that mistake if the plot didn't need her to do so".

I'll have to think more on, later.  But for now...I think, if I had to explain my feelings best...that I can buy Celica not being totally rational, due to everything she's been through.  I can see someone, in real life, maybe reacting the way she did, if they were in the exact situation.  She's...

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1) Already traumatized by being helpless her entire life; and traumatized people don't tend to make the best decisions.  She's desperate (and I mean desperate) to not lose anymore loved ones.  And she's convinced that Alm and everyone else are going to die if she doesn't do something (anything will do)

2) She's been raised to think that everyone will die without the gods.

3) Jedah has clearly done a lot of research on her (either through crystal ball magic, telekinesis, or an insane amount of research); so he knows exactly what her blind spots are, and exactly what buttons to push (which is also probably why he wants her friends out of the way so badly; he doesn't want any of them talking sense into her).

4) She probably became more and more caught up in the idea of sacrificing herself, ever since Jedah put the idea in her head.

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Hopefully that makes sense?  I mean, it definitely stretches my suspension of disbelief...but it didn't break it, if that makes any sense.

Edited by FionordeQuester
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21 minutes ago, FionordeQuester said:

Hmm...I mean, I see what you're saying, it sounds rational, and I do believe the writing was a little shaky throughout that whole section...but for some reason, it's never really broke me, if that makes sense.  It was stupid on Celica's part, obviously...but it wasn't stupid in a way that made me think "ok, Celica would never make that mistake if the plot didn't need her to do so".

I'll have to think more on, later.  But for now...I think, if I had to explain my feelings best...that I can buy Celica not being totally rational, due to everything she's been through.  I can see someone, in real life, maybe reacting the way she did, if they were in the exact situation.  She's...

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1) Already traumatized by being helpless her entire life; and traumatized people don't tend to make the best decisions.  She's desperate (and I mean desperate) to not lose anymore loved ones.  And she's convinced that Alm and everyone else are going to die if she doesn't do something (anything will do)

2) She's been raised to think that everyone will die without the gods.

3) Jedah has clearly done a lot of research on her (either through crystal ball magic, telekinesis, or an insane amount of research); so he knows exactly what her blind spots are, and exactly what buttons to push (which is also probably why he wants her friends out of the way so badly; he doesn't want any of them talking sense into her).

4) She probably became more and more caught up in the idea of sacrificing herself, ever since Jedah put the idea in her head.

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Hopefully that makes sense?  I mean, it definitely stretches my suspension of disbelief...but it didn't break it, if that makes any sense.

Yeah, that does make sense. As I said earlier, I don't actually have a problem with Celica's actions and motivations throughout the section. It's just that Jedah is written so badly, he drags her down just by proximity. You could keep most or all of her dialogue the same and just change some of his and it would improve things phenomenally (though the gameplay fights will always be a problem). Just one example, Celica rightly points out that Rigel were the ones that imprisoned Milda in the first place, have Jedah blame that all on Rudolf and claim he never wanted any harm done to the gods. In fact, have him claim that he never wanted Rigel to go to war in the first place, and that it was all the ambitions of Rudolf. That way he can at least try to absolve himself of wrong doing in Celica's eyes and paint a better picture of himself (and make Celica empathize with him in a way, as she sees herself in the same position regarding Alm).

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Ah, I see...so it's basically just Jedah that's the problem then?  Because yeah, I definitely would've re-worked his dialogue a bit, if I had been given a chance.  Maybe not so much try to make him pretend to be nice, as I kind of like the idea of a bad guy that doesn't try to put on that big of an act.  

Instead, I'd paint him more as a Chaotic Evil person pretending to be Chaotic Neutral.  Have him use cold, hard logic, and cutting commentary on Celica's own inadequacy, instead.  Like...

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Jedah: Oh?  That attack on Mila?  Oh, that wasn't my idea; I don't care about her.  All I care about is pleasing my Lord Duma.

Celica: Then why do you have her in your temple?

Jedah: Like I said, I don't care.  Rudolf offered her up as a gift to Duma, and I happily agreed. 

Celica: Then, Rudolf was the one...

Jedah: But I suppose Duma himself would want her back; she is his sister after all.  Such a shame that he does not have the power to do so...

Celica: Then if you don't care, how do I know you even have her to begin with?

Jedah: You don't.  But I doubt you'll find her anywhere else; and I don't think I need to remind you of what will happen if you don't rescue her soon.

Celica: ...!

Jedah: Go ahead...come to the Tower of Duma.  You'll see.  And if you think you can liberate her without giving up your soul, then by all means!  Do so!

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Or...

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Celica: Why did your men attack my FRIENDS?!

Jedah: "Men"?  No, no...I command no "men".  We are but fellow believers...joined together to glory in our Lord and Master, Duma.  And you are on sacred ground...

Celica: Then how am I to come any closer without you hurting my friends?!

Jedah: Easy.  Don't bring your friends.  Unless your precious Alm matters more to you than them...

Celica: No!  Of course not!  How dare you suggest that!

Jedah: Then your choice is obvious.  Send them away; go off when they aren't looking...for once in your life, DON'T let your loved ones be killed over matters involving YOU!

Celica: !!

Jedah: Come to [this or that battle map].  Alone.  Show my brothers the purity of your intent.  Otherwise, well...they may get the wrong idea.

(cue battle map, where Celica tries to do just that; only her friends arrive before she can, and the big battle starts)

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Or maybe...

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Celica: Oh no!  Mila is stoned!

Jedah: You see?  That's what I've been trying to tell you!  

Celica: ...no...It can't be true...

Jedah: I'm afraid it is.  And there's no force in the world that can bring her back now...

Celica: So the people of Valentia will all...

Jedah: Die, yes.  Unless you were to give your soul to Duma?  Then, perhaps, he could provide your people the safety he needs.

Celica: But Duma is a God of heartless ambition...bereft of compassion...the people's lives will be filled with chaos and darkness...

Jedah: But "lives", they shall have.  Duma is a god that welcomes all who would but call upon his name.  Besides...Who knows?  Perhaps he'll find a way to help Mila, if he's feeling generous.  Like I said, she is his sister...

Celica: And why should I believe a word you're saying?

Jedah: Why not?  Will we not all die if Duma is not restored to sanity?  Will not die, if the lands wither and perish?  Do you doubt my devotion to Duma?  Does my well-being not depend on his?

Celica: ...

Jedah: We all face hard choices in this life.  But you are choosing between the world's second chance at life, and it's guaranteed demise.  I trust you are smart enough to know which is preferable...

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Would that approach also work, do you think?

Edited by FionordeQuester
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2 hours ago, FionordeQuester said:

snip

Yes, something like that would have helped immensely. Jedah just needs to try and get Celica on his side, rather than just telling her to do what he wants and her accepting. Also, I just can't help but laugh when you open with this.

2 hours ago, FionordeQuester said:

Celica: Oh no!  Mila is stoned!

Jedah: You see?  That's what I've been trying to tell you!  

Celica: ...no...It can't be true...

Jedah: I'm afraid it is.  And there's no force in the world that can bring her back now...

Celica: So the people of Valentia will all...

Jedah: Die, yes.  Unless you were to give your soul to Duma?  Then, perhaps, he could provide your people the safety he needs.

Conveys the image of Mila sitting back in a chair with a bong and vacant eyes, with Celica despairing because she is now too lazy to help anyone XD

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9 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Conveys the image of Mila sitting back in a chair with a bong and vacant eyes, with Celica despairing because she is now too lazy to help anyone XD

She has light green hair, the expression on her face in the official art is always less than alert, likes being very kind to people, her brain is a bit degenerate, she does have a big chair she just sits in until Rigel PD storms through the door Falchion pointed right at her. 

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1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

She has light green hair, the expression on her face in the official art is always less than alert, likes being very kind to people, her brain is a bit degenerate, she does have a big chair she just sits in until Rigel PD storms through the door Falchion pointed right at her. 

We joke, but Mila's whole stick is that her kindness turned to hedonism over time. It's not actually impossible that she's into recreational drugs. One of the gifts the dragons gave humanity was alcohol, after all (and the only use of alcohol in the game is presenting it to her statue).

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