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What are things you're sick of seeing in FE?


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Guest Dreamyboi

Exactly what the titles says (again), What are things in the franchise you are sick of seeing either because you've seen them too much or because you think they effect the story or gameplay in a negative way and need to go. 

Here are the things in the Fire Emblem franchise I think need to just leave and never come back based on what I've played (Awakening, Fates, Echoes):

Let's get the obvious ones out of the way.

  • Desert Maps (They're tedious slogs and I can't think of a single benefit to them)
  • Fog of War (These are bad for strategy because they only effect the player and practically enforce turtling)
  • One Dimensional Villains (They're lazily written and boring)
  • Quirk-Centric Characters (They're lazy and I find them immersion breaking)
  • Open Field Maps (Lazy, Awakening was embarrassing and Echoes has NO excuse)
  • Lackluster Worldbuilding (Let's be real, even Echoes needed to do a better job with it's worldbuilding despite having different teachings Rigelian and Zofian societies appeared the same)

Now for some that are important to me personally.

  • Dragon Final Bosses (It does not always have to be a dragon come on)
  • Kid-Looking Characters (Unless they're manaketes there's no reason for units that look prepubescent to be on a battlefield at all)
  • Boob Armor (https://www.tor.com/2013/05/06/boob-plate-armor-would-kill-you/ I know it's done for the sake of fanservice but I find it immersion breaking and cringeworthy)
  • Destructive Faithfulness (When you remake a game you FIX it's flaws, not preserve them for the sake of staying faithful.)
  • 2 Range Exclusive Archers (Echoes had the right idea, let Archers have 1-3 range while balancing the effectiveness ofcourse)
  • Avatar units (I've bitched about this plenty so to keep it short, they're more often then not destructive to the writing)
  • Possessed Villains (I vastly prefer villains that are motivated by their own goals instead of being influenced by evil spirits/magic and shit)
  • Lack of Politics (I think it'd be great if the conflict weren't as simple as just "Evil Nation vs Good Nation", use some imagination)

These I'm only mostly sure on.

  • Fanservice Characters (Characters build for the express purpose of being masturbated to are lame though I don't think they're THAT harmful)
  • Weapon Durability (I've been thinking about this for a bit and I think a MUCH more balanced version of what Fates tried to do would be better)
  • Critical/Skill cut-ins (I liked it better when critical hits/skills were quick and surprising, now you have to sit through a not-so-witty one liner and portrait closeup before impact.)
  • Dancers/Bards (Unless they're dancing/music have magic properties that are useful in battle then it makes no sense for them to be on the field)

 

That's all I have, what about you guys?

 

Edited by Dreamyboi
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I mostly agree with yours, but would like to add a few of my own:

  • The same archetypes being played straight (If you're going to reuse the same archetypes over and over again, at least subvert or even try combining them.  I'm still waiting for my Cain and Abel Fighters.)
  • Loli Manaketes (Seriously.  Why are they always little girls?)
  • Dragon final bosses
  • Fates's secondary effect system for weapons
  • Playable armored units and axe-wielding infantry getting the shaft (Fates had pretty good representation for the former, but I wouldn't be so sure for the latter.)
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Well, so far I don't have much I'm "sick of" per se, but as for general complaints?

Avatar-support exclusive characters shouldn't have been a thing. They really should have had more options 

I'd also like to hear the voices of allied units a bit more. Especially in Fates, they sort of just slip into the shadows once recruited, save for support conversations. In SoV and Blazing Blade, the other characters are much more vocal. Sure they aren't the main focus, but it doesn't hurt recognizing their presence in some way that's not very disruptive/distracting to the plot.

Kaze in Birthright. Enough said.

Avatars I do like but feel it should vary from game to game on whether or not to include them and what role they should play. Also customization options... Why isn't skin color a choice? Males could also use more hairstyles. As someone part black I sort of wish my Avatar could look a bit more like me in the game but am stuck with the options given. Fates has an excuse though. Also, I feel if the player doesn't have some way of making choices which affect their personality and actions, they're best off without one as an extra unit or just a named hero rather than an outright avatar. Sure there are a few choices in Fates and Awakening, but most aren't really very influential (save Fate's one main decision).

The "lovesick stalker" archetype could also use better writing IMO. Faye was pretty poor.

I'd also like to hear a bit more history for some places. Ylissean Archanea and nameless-Fatesland seem to have interesting backgrounds but neither really get covered. Especially in the case of the latter (really, why was the Yato in that statue of all places and what was the continent's name?). 

Edited by Arcphoenix
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1 minute ago, Arcphoenix said:

I'd also like to hear the voices of allied units a bit more. Especially in Fates, they sort of just slip into the shadows once recruited, save for support conversations. In SoV and Blazing Blade, the other characters are much more vocal. Sure they aren't the main focus, but it doesn't hurt recognizing their presence in some way that's not very disruptive/distracting to the plot.

Avatars I do like but feel it should vary from game to game on whether or not to include them and what role they should play. Also customization options... Why isn't skin color a choice? Males could also use more hairstyles. As someone part black I sort of wish my Avatar could look a bit more like me in the game but am stuck with the options given. Fates has an excuse though.

What I'd like to see are special deployment scenes in which deployed characters get a bit more dialogue at the beginning of the chapter.  This scene at the beginning of Chapter 12x of Thracia 776 is probably the best example I can think of.

And maybe they could also add more options for the Avatar's eyewear in addition to skin color?

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I'd say destructive faithfulness (Shadow Dragon was enough for me to get agitated with this, and I hope no other remakes repeat that mistake), status staves (they're almost never as useful for the player as they are for the enemy), units that are outclassed by units you got earlier (I'm sick of all the Marisas, Wendys, and Sophias of FE; Binding Blade was especially bad about this), and plot-based promotions (far too often they're too late for the MC to catch up level wise; it's especially awful since most games practically mandate use of the main character to defeat the final boss).

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There's plenty of things I'd like to see changed or implemented, but I can honestly say there's not a single thing I'm sick of seeing. I don't particularly like the one quirk characters and Avatar worship, but it's incidental enough that I also don't care. The last few games have still been decent games in my opinion. And even as far as miscellaneous features go, I'm on to try any of them again. The only think I can honestly say out of the entire franchise that I'd be happier never seeing again is Fate's Weapon triangle. Bows have it bad as it is, they shouldn't face WTD against fliers.

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Status Effects. They are, by far, the worst part about this series imo. I even made a thread about this.

Fog of War is also pretty bad but thankfully, that hasn't shown up in recent years. I'd also prefer it if Weapon Durability was gone. Fates had the right idea (sort-of) and Echoes was really enjoyable when i didn't have to worry about weapons breaking. Avatars should go, FE's Avatars shouldn't be considered actual Avatars. I also don't like the weight system. I don't get why people want it to return. All it does is fuck over weaker units. Also, RNG Skills. Echoes' Arts were fantastic, the best way to handle Skills imo.

1 hour ago, Dreamyboi said:

Lackluster Worldbuilding (Let's be real, even Echoes needed to do a better job with it's worldbuilding despite having different teachings Rigelian and Zofian societies appeared the same)

???????? Echoes has some of the best worldbuilding in the series. Just by going to a location, you learn a little bit about it and the dialogue Alm and Celica have when exploring dungeons helps.

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Id like A Final boss that isn't a dragon 

Spoiler

weve got Loptyr, Duma, Grima, Medeus like 3 times I think, Velezark, Anakos, unnamed fire dragon, Idunn, Gerxel. 

 

Edited by DisobeyedCargo
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I'm a little tired of callbacks to previous games. In the three 3DS games we have seen virtually every mechanic from a previous Fire Emblem game, and a large majority of classes and skills as well. The only major element that did not return in any of those games was Canto (unless you count galeforce). Before they came back, I had seen very few people request the return of capturing units, fatigue, bonus exp, marriage, children, a world map, warping witches (in fates, I mean. Obviously Gaiden's remake will have them), ballisticians, Anna, personal skills, or fog of war. Granted, a lot of those things can be really cool features, but I feel like they only showed up as a shoutout to guys like us rather than being well considered to improve the game. Recycling mechanics may be a responsible use of resources and development time, but only do it if you expect the player needs to take advantage of it for the game you're building.

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• Dragon as a final boss.

• Everything about the Avatar since Awakening, just, EVERYTHING.

• Poor writing.

• If just Fates is considered, then the DLC, for both it's quality and quantity.

 

Oh, and Fates' weapon triangle.

Edited by soggy
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11 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

Id like A Final boss that isn't a dragon 

  Hide contents

weve got Loptyr, Duma, Grima, Medeus like 3 times I think, Velezark, Anakos, unnamed fire dragon, Idunn, Gerxel. 

 

Medeus only twice. Unless you cound the remakes.

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38 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I also don't like the weight system. I don't get why people want it to return. All it does is fuck over weaker units.

Ditto. The way it was in Thracia and the GBA games was the worst by far.

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Player worship, and by extension the avatars. 

It just feels so forced and embarrassing when every character goes on and on about how awesome you the player are. It's a thing with regular lords to a degree, but nowhere near the level of avatars. The story in Fates bent over backwards to make Corrin be super amazing and perfect just the way they are. 

I also dislike avatars being so central to the games now. I just feel they detract more from the experience than they add. I never had a problem "relating to" named lords before, or to the rest of the cast, even without a self-insert. Supports suffer because you it's all about quantity over quality now. There are still good ones but they get buried under a pile of bad to lackluster ones. And both Robin and Corrin suffered because they were written as established characters but also left just generic enough so they could be called avatars. 

I've said this before, but if the next game has an avatar, I hope it's more like having playable Mark. A totally secondary character irrelevant to the plot. Fates would have probably been better if Xander/Ryoma (or Leo/Takumi) had been the main lords and your avatar character was one of their retainers. 

Other than that, I agree with a few points made in this thread. Lazy villains, gimmicky characters, bad writing, to name a few.

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8 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

Ah. I thought three cause of the three wars he caused. The War of Liberation, the War of Shadows, and the War of Heroes.

Well we're still waiting on that Zelda style Anri game. Maybe some day.

Actually it would be three if you count Tokyo Mirage Session.

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23 minutes ago, soggy said:

• If just Fates is considered, then the DLC, for both it's quality and quantity.

Speaking of, I don't want us to get shafted in the DLC department like was the case in Fates. That was just bad.

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Guest Dreamyboi
7 minutes ago, Book Bro said:

Player worship, and by extension the avatars. 

It just feels so forced and embarrassing when every character goes on and on about how awesome you the player are. It's a thing with regular lords to a degree, but nowhere near the level of avatars. The story in Fates bent over backwards to make Corrin be super amazing and perfect just the way they are. 

I also dislike avatars being so central to the games now. I just feel they detract more from the experience than they add. I never had a problem "relating to" named lords before, or to the rest of the cast, even without a self-insert. Supports suffer because you it's all about quantity over quality now. There are still good ones but they get buried under a pile of bad to lackluster ones. And both Robin and Corrin suffered because they were written as established characters but also left just generic enough so they could be called avatars. 

I've said this before, but if the next game has an avatar, I hope it's more like having playable Mark. A totally secondary character irrelevant to the plot. Fates would have probably been better if Xander/Ryoma (or Leo/Takumi) had been the main lords and your avatar character was one of their retainers. 

Other than that, I agree with a few points made in this thread. Lazy villains, gimmicky characters, bad writing, to name a few.

I agree SO much man, Avatars need to go.

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I'm definitely gonna have to agree on Boob armor + some other stuff regarding animation/art. It honestly, even with Echoes, feels as if the way the 3DS animations were very unrealistic. 

I actually kind of like fog of war, but they definitely need to work out the kinks in it.

Desert maps are a no-no. 

Story and Better World Building is very much needed, as well as better personalities for bosses, so that they are considered gray instead of black, even among the playable cast. 

I'd actually like a smaller cast of playable characters, somewhere around 20-30ish with very in depth supports rather than just quick conversations on the battlefield or in the barracks. (like instead of the standard C B A S supports, something similar to the bonding in Fates, with maybe...10 or so conversations. It's a stretch, so it'll probably never happen.)

They definitely need to balance out all the classes, and balance out the stats as well.

Weapon durability I'd like to keep, but more balanced. Realistically, weapons do break, and they should be repairable. 

Fanservice characters are fine (Lemme explain), but their "assets" shouldn't be immediately the main focus of their in-game sprite/art. Official art, go for it. Not only that, their "assets" (I think that's the wrong word for the context of this sentence) should be a vital part of who they are as a character, and that should be reflected in their animations, supports, etc. 

I'm fine with loli manaketes...as long as they ACTUALLY ARE UNDERAGE and there are more than one of them, and they don't play a vital role in the story whatsoever(similar to Nah from Awakening)... Though I prefer what they did with Tiki in Awakening, and maybe even Bantu from Shadow Dragon, but not in terms of their story roles. 

I feel as if there should only be personal skills rather than class skills, all based on the supports that are made throughout the game and maybe through the storyline for the main characters. 

I'm fine with an avatar...if they are a completely clean slate with no heavy story impact. They should be fully customizable, to the point where choosing their personalities will change their supports. 

I'm fine with the concept of a dancer/bard, meaning a unit that is there to support in battle, but not in the healing way. I'm not entirely sure what this unit could be, but I do agree that the way the dancer/bard work doesn't really sit right with me either.

When it comes to Critical/skill cut-ins...they should flow with the animation rather than being a cut-it. They should be saying their one liner as they are in the middle of their battle animation. (Don't know how this would work, but it sounds good...in my head at least). 

And props to Armagon to bringing up status effects.

Please bring them back to the point where they do something. Berserk and Sleep are honestly pretty useful. Poison is...well...should be a lot more harmful...like in Bloodlines... and it should inflict some type of stat debuff as well. 

58 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

I'm a little tired of callbacks to previous games. In the three 3DS games we have seen virtually every mechanic from a previous Fire Emblem game, and a large majority of classes and skills as well. The only major element that did not return in any of those games was Canto (unless you count galeforce). Before they came back, I had seen very few people request the return of capturing units, fatigue, bonus exp, marriage, children, a world map, warping witches (in fates, I mean. Obviously Gaiden's remake will have them), ballisticians, Anna, personal skills, or fog of war. Granted, a lot of those things can be really cool features, but I feel like they only showed up as a shoutout to guys like us rather than being well considered to improve the game. Recycling mechanics may be a responsible use of resources and development time, but only do it if you expect the player needs to take advantage of it for the game you're building.

In terms of all of the stuff in this which I haven't mentioned yet...

Marriage--Max support Rank, I agree, though (AND I MEAN NO OFFENCE TO ANYONE WHEN I SAY THIS, PLEASE KEEP AN OPEN MIND) I feel as if same-sex marriage shouldn't be in Fire Emblem because of its "medieval/fantasy" society. 

Children...Sure...but no deeprealm/outrealm/going-back-in-time bullshit please. 

Warping Witches+Ballisticians+other miscellaneous classes, please, do return...with being much better balanced in terms of stats and AI...

World map...Well, you should definitely be able to interact with past towns and stuff, and the way Echoes did it was alright, though I'd like to see the player being able to camp out in a random-ass forest and the like on the way back from a not-very-pointless side mission. And yes, this is to recover from FATIGUE, literally the best concept I have seen thus far in Fire Emblem, though it does, like a lot of other things, need to be balanced. 

Anna Anna Anna Anna...Such a big staple in the community and in the world of Fire Emblem. I'd like to see her back to being a sort of mysterious person, and of course, an NPC. Though in Awakening saving an Anna was certainly a good idea, which I'm sad to see that they didn't keep. 

Bonus Experience is nice, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't make sense. What kind of experience (in terms of the context in the world of Fire Emblem) is bonus experience? Now if it was something like what Fe7x has with the arena in the base, I'm all in for that, because that is essentially bonus experience that makes sense. 

Capturing Units. Another great idea, such a shame to see it absent in the series for so long. Fates butchered it, in my opinion.

I think I'm done...for now...

EDIT:

Player Worship definitely needs to go away,

Now when it comes to weight...The way it works in GBA is ok...and POR/RD did it slightly better, but I feel as if Echoes did weight the best. I'll be happy to see it return...in term of the Echoes style.

 

Edited by Bhoop
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I'd like to bring up Forging, what do you guys think about it?

Echoes style, FE9 style, Awakening style, Fates Style, or something else that I'm forgetting? Personally, I like the FE9 style the best. 

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22 minutes ago, Bhoop said:

I'd like to bring up Forging, what do you guys think about it?

Echoes style, FE9 style, Awakening style, Fates Style, or something else that I'm forgetting? Personally, I like the FE9 style the best. 

I almost never bother with forging unless I'm trying to train up units like Julian or Olivia with particularly weak starts.

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

I'd also prefer it if Weapon Durability was gone. Fates had the right idea (sort-of) and Echoes was really enjoyable when i didn't have to worry about weapons breaking. ...I also don't like the weight system. I don't get why people want it to return. All it does is fuck over weaker units.

I wouldn't mind weapon durability coming back if (1) weapons were more durable than normal, i.e. 60 for a Bronze weapon, 50 for Iron, 40 for Steel, etc., and (2) you could pay to repair weapons freely like in Genealogy of the Holy War.

As for the weight system, I think people like it because (1) it adds a bit of extra realism, and (2) they don't perceive it as fair that a frail and dainty unit can wield, say, a humongous battleaxe (not that this ever happens) as easily as another unit with more bulk.

Edited by Von Ithipathachai
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23 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

As for the weight system, I think people like it because (1) it adds a bit of extra realism, and (2) they don't perceive it as fair that a frail and dainty unit can wield, say, a humongous battleaxe (not that this ever happens) as easily as another unit with more bulk.

But not every part of a game has to be realistic. And honestly, i'd argue that it's actually unfair that a frail unit can't use a big, powerful weapon. It's why Pegasus Knights struggle a lot in the GBA games.

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3 hours ago, Dreamyboi said:

 

  • Critical/Skill cut-ins (I liked it better when critical hits/skills were quick and surprising, now you have to sit through a not-so-witty one liner and portrait closeup before impact.)

This is an odd one I entirely agree on. The quickness and surprise of criticals and skills made them a lot more effective in gameplay, and I HATE it when units never shut up. Spouting a one-liner every time there's a crit or a skill procs just seems tonally off.

Having your heroes effectively say "Heh, I'm killing you, but look at how much fun I'm having." in a series built on making you feel bad every time one of YOUR units dies seems like a big clash. The series always had it with things like victory poses, but the cut-ins feel like a step too far. It's like the series went from adding stuff to ensure that this series about war wasn't too grim and sad, to making it feel like killing people is just a fun romp you have with your buddies. 

Edited by Slumber
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7 minutes ago, Armagon said:

But not every part of a game has to be realistic. And honestly, i'd argue that it's actually unfair that a frail unit can't use a big, powerful weapon. It's why Pegasus Knights struggle a lot in the GBA games.

Indeed, I agree with you here.  In fact, I'm quite certain that realistic doesn't always mean better.

I'm just trying to say why people like it, and not necessarily why it's good.  For my own project I've occasionally tossed around the idea of getting rid of Con and simply using regular Speed-Weight for attack speed calculation.

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