What are things you're sick of seeing in FE?

[Faellin]

The "New" vs "Old" FE arguements. Just let people play what they like... Heck I like BOTH! with PoR and Awakening being 2 of my favorites.

Or did you mean game mechanics?

Then the 2nd generation system. Awakening did it fine since it made sense for story reasons. It felt incredibly out of place in fates. I'd rather they stick to making the 1st gen as well written as possible instead.

[Icelerate]

38 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Not falling into traps shows that Roy has keen enough intelligence to realize where the traps are and how to avoid them, or even how to turn them around on their enemies, like how he forced Wagner to spring his trap early when he tried to prematurely leave. And yes, Yodel teamed up with Roy because of his own desires, but it's also clear that Roy sought aid from the church himself in an effort to reduce casualties on the streets. The conversation at the start of the chapter in question specifically has Roy thanking Yodel for that before even discovering that the church has other motives for helping him. He also doesn't blindly join the rebels, he approaches them to try and understand what exactly is going on and only joins them when he hears of the Etrunia corruption and labor camps. The difference between Roy and Ephraim is that Roy does all these additional things to secure himself and ensure his plans don't fail. While Ephraim just charges the enemy and his plans miraculously don't fail.

I agree that Roy is very intelligent. 

I don't get the plot point of the civilians protesting on the streets. Why didn't the Etrurian rebels and Bern forces just slaughter them instead of retreating into the castle? Roy thanking the church doesn't mean he initially contacted them. It could have been that the church made arrangements before Roy did but the writing isn't clear on this issue unless I'm missing something.  

He does join the rebels pretty hastily even before he can ask Cecelia for help. 

Spoiler

Roy:
“Is this the area where the rebels are most active?”

Merlinus:
“Yes, according to our sources. However, I also heard that earlier this week, the rebels were hunted down by the Etrurian military and decimated.”

Roy:
“…The Etrurian government overlooks the bandits, yet oppresses the rebels who are trying to help the people? This doesn’t look good at all…”

Merlinus:
“Indeed…”

Roy:
“Is there anything we can do?”

Merlinus:
“That would be difficult… We would be turning against the Etrurian court. I can’t say that would be a good idea when we were sent here under their orders.”

Roy:
“I’ll send a messenger to General Cecilia and see what she has to say. We probably shouldn’t do anything too risky right now…”

(A Soldier appears)

Soldier:
“Master Roy! We have received a report that the lord of this area has dispatched troops to attack the villages and hunt down the remnants of the rebels!”

Merlinus:
“What! Master Roy, should we…?”

Roy:
“Well, I guess we don’t have time to wait for General Cecilia’s opinion… I want to help the people here. Even if it means that we’ll be going against Eturia…”

Merlinus:
“Master Roy…”

 

I agree that Roy is a lot more cautious, level headed and strategic but tactically Ephraim is very competent. Tactics being commanding the troops on a small scale without taking into account the overall picture which Roy does far better. The original poster I quoted thinks guys like Ike and Ephraim are Gary Stus but I don't see how that argument holds when Roy is more flawless than those two. 

Edited April 10, 2018 by Icelerate

[Jotari]

20 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

I agree that Roy is very intelligent. 

I don't get the plot point of the civilians protesting on the streets. Why didn't the Etrurian rebels and Bern forces just slaughter them instead of retreating into the castle? Roy thanking the church doesn't mean he initially contacted them. It could have been that the church made arrangements before Roy did but the writing isn't clear on this issue unless I'm missing something.  

He does join the rebels pretty hastily even before he can ask Cecelia for help. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Roy:
“Is this the area where the rebels are most active?”

Merlinus:
“Yes, according to our sources. However, I also heard that earlier this week, the rebels were hunted down by the Etrurian military and decimated.”

Roy:
“…The Etrurian government overlooks the bandits, yet oppresses the rebels who are trying to help the people? This doesn’t look good at all…”

Merlinus:
“Indeed…”

Roy:
“Is there anything we can do?”

Merlinus:
“That would be difficult… We would be turning against the Etrurian court. I can’t say that would be a good idea when we were sent here under their orders.”

Roy:
“I’ll send a messenger to General Cecilia and see what she has to say. We probably shouldn’t do anything too risky right now…”

(A Soldier appears)

Soldier:
“Master Roy! We have received a report that the lord of this area has dispatched troops to attack the villages and hunt down the remnants of the rebels!”

Merlinus:
“What! Master Roy, should we…?”

Roy:
“Well, I guess we don’t have time to wait for General Cecilia’s opinion… I want to help the people here. Even if it means that we’ll be going against Eturia…”

Merlinus:
“Master Roy…”

 

I agree that Roy is a lot more cautious, level headed and strategic but tactically Ephraim is very competent. Tactics being commanding the troops on a small scale without taking into account the overall picture which Roy does far better. The original poster I quoted thinks guys like Ike and Ephraim are Gary Stus but I don't see how that argument holds when Roy is more flawless than those two. 

It's not about the civilians protesting on the streets, it's about them getting caught up in the actual warfare. Consider, if Etruria set up it's armies in the streets, then the battles would ultimately spill over into people's houses as forces retreat or advance. Both sides are going to use the terrain to their advantage, and the terrain in this case is where the people live. Make their homes a battlefield and there will be casualties.

I won't argue that Roy has a bit of sue going on. In fact, while I like his near perfection, I think it does a great disservice to Merlinus as he's made a out to be a bit of an idiot just to make Roy look better. But what the OP did say is that Roy's competence and praise makes sense as it's supported more by the game and his back story. While the likes of Ephraim just win because they do. Even with Ephraim completely falls into an ambush or trap like in the Phantom Ship and following Port chapter, he just wins because he's Ephraim, while Roy generally wins because he set something up in advance. So yeah, Ephraim might be a tactical mastermind, because he does win all his battles, but the game gives us no real reason as to believe why he manages to do so based on his dialogue. Most of Ephraim's arc is arguing with Seth about compassion. Seth suggests doing something a bit more pragmatic, and then Ephraim says he won't abandon his emotion to become king, and just wins without the pragmatic approach without doing anything else that's particularly smart of noteworthy. He just sort of wins because it's a game and each chapter is designed to be beatable.

[Morswo]

31 minutes ago, Faellin said:

The "New" vs "Old" FE arguements. Just let people play what they like... Heck I like BOTH! with PoR and Awakening being 2 of my favorites.

Or did you mean game mechanics?

Then the 2nd generation system. Awakening did it fine since it made sense for story reasons. It felt incredibly out of place in fates. I'd rather they stick to making the 1st gen as well written as possible instead.

In my opinion was the writing of the "New" FE's worse than the old ones, especially Fates was terrible.
In the other hand were the game mechanics in general better done than before, but there are some exceptions, like capture, bows or child units.
What the 2nd did was not good at all, in Fates and Awakening. I think that just the way of FE4 was right for the story, because timetraveling or deeprealms don't fit Fire Emblen in my opinion, but I have to say that it don't mean that they are bad as a character.
The "New" FE's had a huge amount of characters, where some were really well written and many others were really bad(e.g. Peri), but the gameplay become better, which and the characters is the most important point of every FE in my opinion and everyone has another opinion what they think is the most important thing of FE.
 

[Icelerate]

6 hours ago, Jotari said:

It's not about the civilians protesting on the streets, it's about them getting caught up in the actual warfare. Consider, if Etruria set up it's armies in the streets, then the battles would ultimately spill over into people's houses as forces retreat or advance. Both sides are going to use the terrain to their advantage, and the terrain in this case is where the people live. Make their homes a battlefield and there will be casualties.

I won't argue that Roy has a bit of sue going on. In fact, while I like his near perfection, I think it does a great disservice to Merlinus as he's made a out to be a bit of an idiot just to make Roy look better. But what the OP did say is that Roy's competence and praise makes sense as it's supported more by the game and his back story. While the likes of Ephraim just win because they do. Even with Ephraim completely falls into an ambush or trap like in the Phantom Ship and following Port chapter, he just wins because he's Ephraim, while Roy generally wins because he set something up in advance. So yeah, Ephraim might be a tactical mastermind, because he does win all his battles, but the game gives us no real reason as to believe why he manages to do so based on his dialogue. Most of Ephraim's arc is arguing with Seth about compassion. Seth suggests doing something a bit more pragmatic, and then Ephraim says he won't abandon his emotion to become king, and just wins without the pragmatic approach without doing anything else that's particularly smart of noteworthy. He just sort of wins because it's a game and each chapter is designed to be beatable.

The game stated that the Etrurian revolutionaries were too scared of the population and decided to hide in the castle. If Roy actually asked the church for support to rile up the people, that means he's risking the lives of ordinary civilians which is contradictory to his character. 

Ephraim formed an alliance with Duessel which allowed him to be successful in the Grado campaign. Not to mention Grado was focused on destroying the other sacred stones and sent an army to Jehanna as well as Rausten. Furthermore, there were Grado troops occupying Renais. I think Ephraim's victories are well handled for the most part. The only thing that makes no sense is how he managed to escape Valter. Roy also ends up winning because Bern decided to withdraw right before he attacked in Araphen and the south of the Etrurian peninsula. Also ,Nime ends up helping him out by changing the weather. Something he didn't set up but got lucky. 

It took Ephraim 5 chapters (pirate ship doesn't count because those weren't Grado troops) before he could take Grado keep yet Roy took over Bern's palace in a span of two chapters without any noteworthy reasons (Sword of Seals chapter doesn't count because it wasn't militarily strategic). 

Ephraim did end up getting punished for his recklessness when he confronted Lyon. When did Roy end up getting punished for his flaws? 

Ephraim's competence is more realistic because he's older than Roy, also trained in the arts of war like Roy yet he's not super perfect like Roy. 

 

[EdeaCreamer]

I'm really sick of dragons and manaketes. In the Archanean Saga, obviously you can't get away from this (and Fates is part of that saga, so we've been there since...FE 11?), but if we go to a brand new world, I really hope the 'mystical ultra-pow4rful immortal dragon lord' stuff is heavily restrained in favor of something a bit more...mundane and cerebral.

[Jotari]

9 hours ago, Icelerate said:

The game stated that the Etrurian revolutionaries were too scared of the population and decided to hide in the castle. If Roy actually asked the church for support to rile up the people, that means he's risking the lives of ordinary civilians which is contradictory to his character. 

Ephraim formed an alliance with Duessel which allowed him to be successful in the Grado campaign. Not to mention Grado was focused on destroying the other sacred stones and sent an army to Jehanna as well as Rausten. Furthermore, there were Grado troops occupying Renais. I think Ephraim's victories are well handled for the most part. The only thing that makes no sense is how he managed to escape Valter. Roy also ends up winning because Bern decided to withdraw right before he attacked in Araphen and the south of the Etrurian peninsula. Also ,Nime ends up helping him out by changing the weather. Something he didn't set up but got lucky. 

It took Ephraim 5 chapters (pirate ship doesn't count because those weren't Grado troops) before he could take Grado keep yet Roy took over Bern's palace in a span of two chapters without any noteworthy reasons (Sword of Seals chapter doesn't count because it wasn't militarily strategic). 

Ephraim did end up getting punished for his recklessness when he confronted Lyon. When did Roy end up getting punished for his flaws? 

Ephraim's competence is more realistic because he's older than Roy, also trained in the arts of war like Roy yet he's not super perfect like Roy. 

 

The Sword of Seals chapter absolutely was militarily strategic. It was a place that Bern wanted to keep and they send the bulk of their forces there to defend it, including their two best generals, Murdock and Galle. Roy also spent the preceding six chapters eliminating Bern's ally (no idea what happens to the other ally featured on the other route) to be in a position to fight, while Ephraim didn't even manage to liberate his own kingdom and only took down one general before fighting the emperor himself. He doesn't even defeat anyone noteworthy when he first lands in Bern, the boss of that chapter being a generic monster. I also see you're taking into account the chapters in which Ephraim fights Grado outside of Grado itself, which Roy also does during the Etrurira arc (and yes, they are Grado troops) once again taking down a significant general (Narcian). The number of chapters also aren't any kind of good indicator. Corrin in Birthright has the same problem of just walking into the enemy head quarters to win the war. It takes a bunch of chapters to do it, but its still them just walking in without any real impediment, winning just because they're the protagonist.

Edited April 11, 2018 by Jotari

[Etrurian emperor]

I think one thing to consider when talking about the accomplishments of Roy and Ephraim is that the later had a much easier opponent. Grado seems quite weak compared to other nations said to be the strongest of their continent. They take over one nation in a surprise attack and another due to inside betrayal but that's where it stops. They are also taken down relatively early in the plot by an Ephraim who doesn't really have much of an army at that point. At best only Frelia might have provided some troops but Hausten told Eirika he couldn't really afford to miss anyone if he wanted to defend the border. So its possible that Epraim took down the empire with just the ragtag bunch of allies he gathered on the road to the capitol. 

In contrast Bern is a country that takes over half the continent by force and brings down its only real rival by backing a coup. Unlike Grado Bern remains a threat throughout the entire game and only falls in one of the final chapters. 

[Tamanoir]

19 hours ago, Faellin said:

Then the 2nd generation system. Awakening did it fine since it made sense for story reasons. It felt incredibly out of place in fates. I'd rather they stick to making the 1st gen as well written as possible instead.

I'm surprised no one mentioned this before. Though it's not really the system itself, but everything related to it that bothers me. Amongst them, teh story problem and more Avatar worshipping

Which leads me to my point : S Rank Support. Now, I'm not against romantic pairings, obviously. But they doesn't need to be systematic. Eirika X Saleh isn't romantic, and it's still excellent.

The fact that, quite often they come out of nowhere, just because we need more kids options, is quite story breaking. And the Avatar worship just makes it worse.
How am I supposed to care about Fates' story if I can date my entire family, including my underage sister ("Skinship! WIth your little sister! Skinship with your little sister!").

That makes the opposition between Xander and Ryoma just a fight between two fuckbois instead of a clash of ideals. And that's really sad.
It also lead to some circumovoluted explanations that totally misses the point. It's not the only issue with Fates' plot, but it made the game far worse, only because of fanservice.
The other problem with systematic S Rank is that it reduces character interactions. If all the interactions between male and female have to end a specific way, it reduces the possibiliies.

 

Speaking of the Avatar. Give us a real Avatar. Corrin and Robin aren't avatars. If I hack Binding Blade to change Roy's portrait and name, I'll have the exact same result. It's not a real Avatr, but nothing more than a marketing plan that ends up worsening the games.
The best avatar is Mark (beacause it's the only real avatar. Though, Kris is debatable...).

Also, nothing breaks more the immersion than a character supposedly representing us acting in a manner that contradict how we act. That's part of the reason Robin and Corrin gets so much backlash btw.

Ans I actually liked Ftaes and Awakening. Gameplay-wise, Fates does lots of great things. And Awakening was really fun.

[Rose482]

Kris is even worst than Robin and Corrin in my opinion, at least Robin and Corrin had personalities. 

 

Really i would love for them to give us a good avatar character, so i really won't hate it if we got another avatar,  but i would fully understand anyone that doesn't want to see any avatars in FE anymore.

 

 

[Interdimensional Observer]

10 hours ago, Jotari said:

oy also spent the preceding six chapters eliminating Bern's ally (no idea what happens to the other ally featured on the other route)

I headcanon they withdrew when they saw the other ally was defeated- cut their losses short and all now that they see Bern is a sinking ship. But yeah there is no given explanation.

 

7 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

In contrast Bern is a country that takes over half the continent by force and brings down its only real rival by backing a coup.

And I don't get why Bern doesn't push Lycia during this time. it seems to only focus on Etruria. Limited resources?

 

7 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

They take over one nation in a surprise attack and another due to inside betrayal but that's where it stops. They are also taken down relatively early in the plot by an Ephraim who doesn't really have much of an army at that point. At best only Frelia might have provided some troops but Hausten told Eirika he couldn't really afford to miss anyone if he wanted to defend the border. So its possible that Epraim took down the empire with just the ragtag bunch of allies he gathered on the road to the capitol. 

The reversal of fortunes happens offscreen, not so much at Renvall. It appears Frelia is mostly to thank for this. 

Spoiler

Innes:
“Very well, I will begin. I’ve directed the body of Frelia’s army south to engage Grado directly. Our troops are proving themselves superior, and the battle progresses favorably.”

Ephraim begins his march south toward Grado from Castle Frelia. Upon conquering Renais, the Grado Empire has set its sights on Frelia. However, Innes and his troops meet the invaders at the waters?edge. Against all odds, Innes halts the invasion, keeping Frelia’s border intact. 

But when discussing Grado, it is worth remembering who commanded the invasion and why they did.

Lyon, manipulated by the Demon King, arranged the invasions to smash the Sacred Stones of Renais and Frelia. Why? To return to his body easier and eliminate all means of stopping him. Grado is just a tool of the DK. Once Frelia's was smashed, Jehanna's was in the process of being smashed, and it was clear the twins protecting Renais's were plunging themselves into battle with Grado, Lyon had no more need for Grado the country nor occupying Frelia or Renais. Rausten's was entrusted to Riev, the DK's highest confidant who didn't actually have a real plan that we can see for Frelia, but nonetheless the DK trusted he would succeed. And Grado did not border that country at all so it couldn't invade here conventionally.

And mind you all the humans you fight post-Reunion are still Grado remnants, a lot of remnants.

If Grado was fighting a conventional war for territory, it could have been smarter about its use of strength, but it was being wasted in all likelihood because the Demon King wasn't interested in that. Once he resurrected, he would rule the world with or without Grado.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I headcanon they withdrew when they saw the other ally was defeated- cut their losses short and all now that they see Bern is a sinking ship. But yeah there is no given explanation.

Might be cool to see reinforcements in chapter 21 that vary based on the route you chose. If you went Ilia, then bow knights show up to ruin your day, if you when Sacae, then it's pegasus knights.

As for why Bern ignored Lycia, Etruria is a much more powerful enemy. They could have eliminated Lycia if they wanted, but Etruria is a military match for them and is protecting Lycia. So putting their focus on backing the coup in Etruria (which they do by actively fielding soldiers) is prudent. Had the coup succeeded, it's likely they would have conquered Lycia pretty quickly afterwards. It's also possible that they did make some attempts at taking it over while Roy is busy in Ilia/Sacae, but Eliwood repelled the invasion and we just didn't hear about it, he is specifically said to be commanding the defensive army even in his sickly state. It wouldn't be too strange if they never did though, as after Roy liberates the Etrurian capital, they liked had lands there that they were trying to keep and expand from.

[Nanima]

Don't know if this has been mentioned before, but considering what happened to 

Spoiler

Gunnthrá

I have once again been reminded of one of my more hated tropes in FE.

The wise, gentle female royal, usually a relative of a main, or at least important, character, who is unceremoniously killed in order to motivate them.

See Ismaire, Emmeryn, Mikoto etc.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Nanima

[Dandy Druid]

I agree with most of OP's ideas, however, I would just like to note that music has always been apart of war. It was used to boost morale, communication, and/or intimidate the enemy. Drums was a popular instrument to do this, and very easy to keep soldiers on track with a consistent beat. I would say dancers/bards do have a place both gameplay-wise and immersion-wise. Plus, they've been a staple for a long time, so it would seem like a shame to get rid of them, IMO. Perhaps their function/naming can be altered for each game though? A drummer unit would be cool. (can't attack because they're holding a drum, but can refresh, rally, and sabotage the enemy). Or maybe the refresher can be more like Lara/Plum and class change into it while maintaining the basic skills of their original class (i.e. lockpicking/healing/etc.)

I also feel like I'm usually alone in saying I actually like Desert and Fog maps, but that could be my taste in map design is questionable (it is questionable who am I trying to fool).

Anyways, some personal things I'm tired of:

• Archetypes being too literal. Lately, they've been switching around the Abel/Cain's classes (Kaze and Saizo being ninjas instead), but I'd rather see this done with other archetypes as well. I'm surprised we haven't had a Jagen that's some older, wise sage.
• Cartoonishly evil villain design. Not every villain follows this rule, but I hate how you know a villain can't be recruitable when they're conventionally ugly. And then they throw the Camus at you who looks like supermodel, that way you'll feel even more bad about killing them off in order for the writers to use them as a cheap tool to make the enemy morality seem grayer than it actually is.
• Too many comic relief support conversations. Mainly because they often come off as not funny at all. This was my main problem with a bulk of Fates' supports: so many supports boiled down to who can be the wackiest. This isn't always a bad thing, but like many things, it's best in moderation. 

[henrymidfields]

For those that supported my argument regarding Roy, thanks for raising the arguments during my absence. Sure, I do think that Roy is a Gary Stu, but he is a case where I find it easier to slide because it doesn't bend military logic as much as the other games. It's a shame that his strategic strengths doesn't always extend to gameplay effects. Speaking of which which leads to another two thing I'd rather do without, as they also ruin the warfate realism for me: monotony in objectives, and gameplay that focuses more on low-manning.

I find even Fates Conquest to be rather lacking in objective variety, to say nothing of Binding Blade or Awakening. While I don't know entirely for Thracia 776, if my impressions that 776 have more different objectives is true, then I wouldn't mind if we return to that.

I also don't really like the encouragement to low-man as well, much less a one-man army game. In fact, I'm glad that Conquest seemed to discourage this, as it was one of the few games that all my units had to be fully utilised to get through many of the chapters, even though my inidividual units in this game didnt have as much trouble defeating individual enemies than in Binding Blade. Pethaps some of this was due to higher level of AI, with enemies moving as a team instead of coming after me willy-nilly, it may be to a higher variety of weapons, it may be to debuffs, but Conquest certainly felt like a legitimate challenge where a full deployment crew was actually needed, and I'd like to see that ramped up for all new games thereafter.

@Dandy Druid: I do kind of miss the fog of war when I played Awakening and Conquest. I think the problem is that the enemy is not subject to the same rules as the player is and can cheat when approaching player units. Bring in Advance War rules with level ground rules for both sides. Also, have some other gimmicks as well, such as lighting that increases visibility for both the enemy and the player, torches that also has the drawback of showing the user's (and any surrounding units') positions to the enemy, magic flares that temporarily show locations of the enemy etc. Basically make it less of a guessing game.

Edited April 12, 2018 by henrymidfields

[Jotari]

8 minutes ago, henrymidfields said:

For those that supported my argument regarding Roy, thanks for raising the arguments during my absence. Sure, I do think that Roy is a Gary Stu, but he is a case where I find it easier to slide because it doesn't bend military logic as much as the other games. It's a shame that his strategic strengths doesn't always extend to gameplay effects. Speaking of which which leads to another two thing I'd rather do without, as they also ruin the warfate realism for me: monotony in objectives, and gameplay that focuses more on low-manning.

I find even Fates Conquest to be rather lacking in objective variety, to say nothing of Binding Blade or Awakening. While I don't know entirely for Thracia 776, if my impressions that 776 have more different objectives is true, then I wouldn't mind if we return to that.

I also don't really like the encouragement to low-man as well, much less a one-man army game. In fact, I'm glad that Conquest seemed to discourage this, as it was one of the few games that all my units had to be fully utilised to get through many of the chapters, even though my inidividual units in this game didnt have as much trouble defeating individual enemies than in Binding Blade. Pethaps some of this was due to higher level of AI, with enemies moving as a team instead of coming after me willy-nilly, it may be to a higher variety of weapons, it may be to debuffs, but Conquest certainly felt like a legitimate challenge where a full deployment crew was actually needed, and I'd like to see that ramped up for all new games thereafter.

It helps that Fates over all has a much stricter exp curve than in other games. If you're only a few levels higher than the enemy and you kill them, you get basically no exp. This discourages low manning as the main advantage of it is leveling up one or two really powerful units by giving them all the exp. But if piling all the exp on one or two units still doesn't level them up, then you might as well use more than one or two units to maximize your output.

[Dandy Druid]

11 hours ago, henrymidfields said:

 

@Dandy Druid: I do kind of miss the fog of war when I played Awakening and Conquest. I think the problem is that the enemy is not subject to the same rules as the player is and can cheat when approaching player units. Bring in Advance War rules with level ground rules for both sides. Also, have some other gimmicks as well, such as lighting that increases visibility for both the enemy and the player, torches that also has the drawback of showing the user's (and any surrounding units') positions to the enemy, magic flares that temporarily show locations of the enemy etc. Basically make it less of a guessing game.

Yeah I really like that idea. I think it would be funny to have the enemies clunk right into us and end their move prematurely. That was one of my problems with one of RD's fog maps. In Part 3 (Chapter 1?) we were supposed to be sneaking into an enemy camp/base, so it doesn't make sense for them to know where our units were located.

[Luchi]

Things I'm sick of seeing in FE? Hmm... let's see:

• The main lord is either a 'Marth-type'(whom the Japanese prefer) or a 'Hector-type' (whom the Americans prefer).
• Obviously evil-looking antagonists.
• Dragons/demi-gods/gods as final bosses (no, FE10 does not get a pass nor does being possessed by a dragon count).
• Blue-haired male leads. Loses more points if they use a sword.
• The more experienced late-game warrior having lower base stats than the (levelled-up) scrub you got in the early stages of the game. Worse if the pre-promotes base stats are complete trash. At least give them reasonable base stats if they don't have enough chapters to gain levels...
• Storylines that resemble anime plots rather than telling a proper tale of war, morales, ethics etc (though FE4 tried, at least). IS should fire all their current writers and get someone like Matsuno...
• Shipping wars. Made worse if the game is more than 10 years old. The newer ones I can understand, but the Tellius/Elibe shippers should just give up now. No-one cares if Hector ends up with Farina, or if Ike ran off with Soren/Ranulf. Wrt to Ike, fans should give it a rest about his sexual orientation. Why is this such a big deal? It makes zero sense to me.
• The fandom arguing why the older games are better than the newer ones or vice-versa.
• Fans complaining about fan-service.
• Oh, and the constant arguments that sprout when a new Smash is announced about who will get cut and who won't.

[Sock]

I am sick of mirrored portrait inversions. It results in some horrendously stupid shit that drives me nuts (perfectionism, obsessive-compulsive, etc, IT ISN'T PROPER). Chrom is the only character in the series that has a proper inversion, everyone else (pre-Echoes) gets mirrored. Ugh, it isn't proper damnit! Yeah, yeah, some characters are perfectly symmetrical...

[wheelsonfire]

Camus archetype… Camus archetype… Camus archetype… I cannot stress this enough… It was tragic and made sense the first time… Now it just seems stupid… Give us more people like Lorenz or at least switch some people around (e.g. it would have been interesting if Dessuel and FE8 Selena had been switched, with the former staying around with the Empire because he is older and has more loyalty, and the latter betraying them out of her love for the Emperor and hoping he can go back to normal, or otherwise realizing he can't and having no reason to stay).

 

Crappy Lord Units… Having to baby your main character in helping to God they won't die gets annoying after a while… I wouldn't mind having someone like Sigurd who was experienced and had the gameplay to show for it…

 

Marriage… Again, the first time it was great and made sense… But every other time the game could have functioned well without it (FE13 debatable, but considering most of it was a side quest anyway…)

 

Parents dying… Way too predictable, and there are plenty of other ways to make the main character grow up… What FE Warriors did was a great aversion to this, and I would've loved to see the main games do it… Better yet, make the parents playable (not counting marriage in game)… Particularly bitter about things like Mikoto, Elbert, and Elenora, who were initially going to be playable but were not... Not to mention brings a different perspective into the cast, with the parents seem wiser than the children, but also probably being afraid for them…

Edited April 15, 2018 by wheelsonfire

[Paris]

Most likely doesn’t count as an archetype yet but Lucius or “trap characters” and creepy stalkers with a crush. Nothing against Lucius, Libra or Forrest but the trap trope gets old fast. However, Tharja and Camilla suffer because  one aspect of their character is the main focus or being overemphasized. Faye is an exception because at the very least, she’s not rewarded for her creepiness. 

Main antagonist who is almost always male and a dragon. Are dragons the only race that has a serious enough bone to pick with humanity that they want to destroy them? 

Navie/Calm female lead and hot tempered male lead. I get the reasoning behind this and it isn’t a terrible idea. Also, add the main lead rarely ever facing recuperations for their flaws (male lords) or not being able to recover from it on their own (female lords). Exceptions are Sigurd whose impulsivity resulted in his death and Micaiah. 

The lack of world building which reduces immersion because I can’t picture where I’m at in the game. Additionally, it negatively impacts the Camus archetype making them appear as lawfully stupid instead of having believable and understandable motivations for remaining with their nation. 

The lack of challenge in their quest to defeat the evil invading nation and stop evil dragon. It’s usually go from point A to point B to point C, defeat the evil dragon and the world is saved. I’d expect there be challenges and recuperations whether it be unit loss, territory loss or political when taking on another or other nations. Genealogy and the Tellius series are the only exceptions I can think of. 

The Jagen/Oifey being either Paladins or Great Knights. Nothing inherently wrong, but it gets boring. Also, it would make the early game more interesting and varied.

Archers having terrible base states and 2 range locked. Why do mages have better base states despite also being ranged units who can counterattack at one range? Additionally, do snipers really need a skill that increases their accuracy? 

Braindead NPCs that keep running into they enemy line of fire despite not being able to survive. 

Knights supposedly being “tanks” but can’t even keep up with the rest of the army. 

Fate’s Seal skills especially Seal defense and speed. The fact that it activates regardless of who initiates combat is even more infuriating when it already drops a certain stat by six. Also, screw ninjas with seal defense and lunge. 

Everyone can support with everyone makes no sense becuase not everyone will fall in love or at the very least, like each other. Avatar sexual characters make no sense because it’s weird to assume that the only character they speak to is the avatar. 

While it’s not a trend (yet) characters being expies of other characters. It’s boring, not creative and at worst, bring back annoying character quirks/traits. I don’t need another young character bitching about how much they want to be or are an adult, a thief who loves candy, a creepy stalker, a perfectionist knight with unrequited love, Owain or rule 64 Owain unless they go a different direction with it. 

Anna or whichever Anna being presented having a money fetish. It would nice to have an Anna who is more down to earth but just happens to be a merchant. 

Is there a requirement that any and all characters with tragic plot line deaths have to die from being burnt alive by fire? Minor complaint but it would spice things up. Or at the very least, have more males die from fire to give Sigurd company. 

Another recent trend or possible one is the recent FE games (discounting Echoes as it's a remake) lacking a medieval fantasy vibe aesthetically, design and narrative wise. Whenever I play FE 13 or FE 14, I feel like I'm playing an anime version of a medieval fantasy game instead of a medieval fantasy game. The previous games did have some anime aspects but were rarely intrusive. Much of it has to do with designs (character and class) being out of place of the typical FE art style. Lissia's design is alright but I have a hard time believing that's something a cleric would wear. I have an even harder time buying the maid and butler class. Besides butlers not existing in the Middle Ages, the designs don't mesh well against the other class designs being modern. Narrative wise, I feel that FE 13-14 are severely lacking in focus on the world of the game especially FE 14 which didn't even bother to name the continent the story was happening in. In the past FE games, the main characters were concerned about their citizens and willing to put asides their desires to fulfill their duty to them. Meanwhile, Chrom cares more about saving ONE person than ensuring that Grima doesn't return to ensure the safety of future generations. Instead of attempting to think of another resolution like most people would, Corrin blindly follows Azura's plan like an idiot. He doesn't consider the financial expenses, damage and lives lost on either side or if all those are worth it to get one person to sit on a throne. At the very least, he could have attempted to find some other way such as figuring out what magical properties the throne has and try to replicate it before trying to invade.  

Edited April 20, 2018 by Paris

[MyBoyHector]

Quote

Main antagonist who is almost always male and a dragon. Are dragons the only race that has a serious enough bone to pick with humanity that they want to destroy them?

Indeed, how about having a female try to screw over the world for once in a Fire Emblem game, would be a nice change of pace (And yes, puns and innuendo's intended)

Quote

The Jagen/Oifey being either Paladins or Great Knights. Nothing inherently wrong, but it gets boring. Also, it would make the early game more interesting and varied.

Would be nice if the first promote character they bless you with was something different, A Hero or Berserker, something like that.

with those said, Dragon Loli's, Please no more, and if your going too, atleast make it some kind of other animal.

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, MyBoyHector said:

Indeed, how about having a female try to screw over the world for once in a Fire Emblem game, would be a nice change of pace (And yes, puns and innuendo's intended)

We already had one. Idoun. Her case is more a tragic one though.

[Slumber]

47 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

We already had one. Idoun. Her case is more a tragic one though.

Does Idoun really even count? She was pretty much an empty shell by the time she gets fought, with Jahn, a male dragon, being the one behind everything and having an active role in the events of the game. 

Idoun doesn't really feel like a proper villain, and more of a tragic(As you said) plot device that gets Jahn and Zephiel working together. 

Edited April 16, 2018 by Slumber

[MyBoyHector]

48 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Does Idoun really even count? She was pretty much an empty shell by the time she gets fought, with Jahn, a male dragon, being the one behind everything and having an active role in the events of the game. 

Idoun doesn't really feel like a proper villain, and more of a tragic(As you said) plot device that gets Jahn and Zephiel working together. 

I am going to put that in the doesn't count category, so one that does would be great