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Guest Dreamyboi

What kind of Antagonist would you like to see?

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Guest Dreamyboi

What kind of antagonist would you like to see in a future Fire Emblem?

I personally would like to see one that thinks of themselves as the one in the right. One who has, in their own views, heroic intentions and thinks of themselves as a good person while seeing the people opposing them as the evil ones, only acknowledging people they approve of as their followers while denouncing morally bankrupt ones and refusing to associate with them. One who's a competent leader and doesn't make cliche mistakes like letting the protagonist go because "They're too weak" or "I have other business to attend to", but instead does what they can to eliminate potential threats. One who's followers believe in them because they see the good that could come from their goal and want to help reach those ends. One who's flaw is the refusal to see the negative impact of the means they use one the ones they oppose, and in turn refuses to see why the protagonists oppose them. Which would help them contrast with the protagonist who, while able to see things from other perspectives, simply can't accept what is happening and wants to put an end to it. As a result the story wouldn't end with unanimous praise of the protagonists, the rival nation may even see them as the villain and their history would remember them as an awful person who took away what could have been a bright future.

I think my standards are a smidge too high, is the fact that I want to be a video game writer obvious enough yet?

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I'm just going to quote one of my previous posts from the General thread, but I'd like to see the antagonist actually being heroic in a few aspects, while the protagonists also having a share of villainy for once.

On 3/26/2018 at 10:51 PM, henrymidfields said:

I wouldn't mind, for a possible future FE game, if the apparent villains [or hero antagonists] did their deeds out of desperation while the ...(omission)... the entire war was just as much as your [nation's] fault as theirs. Perhaps innocent family members got caught up and made guilty just simply on account of association, or maybe other "villains" got tarred with the same brush. Or maybe  the prosecution went for far too long, and created a new oppressed group of people. And near the end, you found out that a good number of your nation's deeds were not only just as unheroic, but may have been the reason for the conflict in the first place. Ultimately, while you take down the ringleaders of the apparent villains, you also end up firing/banishing/imprisoning some of your own allies who were responsible for the persecution (with or without battle). Perhaps you even decide to abdicate to allow someone more worthy/heroic to take the throne. Maybe something similar to the more unpleasant side of how law enforcement and the military responded to the War on Terrorism, or the Red Scare by Joseph MaCarthy, or maybe even the Wicked musical (eg how Glinda ended up banishing the Wizard and incarcerated Madame Morrible) except less morally complex and more idealistic for FE.

Or maybe even Tellius except in the quoted case, Ike and Micaiah aren't much more heroic than the villains.

Edited by henrymidfields

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I want a villain who is just another person. Someone who could very reasonably be the main character, but has become the villain because you are not playing the game from their perspective. I would find it the most engaging if the main villain of the game could be someone who doesn't have some grand scheme, radical beliefs, a god complex, or god forbid another possession, but just some guy following orders from his superiors and is fighting for his family, friends, and country. You would have to fight him because there is no talking your way out of it because you would both be cogs in the machine (by the way the "lord" should also be a low ranking soldier with a few men under his command) with no real influence on the whole of the war. I've been thinking of how interesting it would be to just be the leader of a small force in a much bigger conflict and you and your men are forced to participate in dozens of battles as just one unit and the idea of a another elite enemy unit that you would come against time and again just feels really interesting to me.

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I'd like to see an antagonist who is merely trying desperately to help his/her own people through their actions.  I guess sort of like Travant in Genealogy of the Holy War, except they're the main villain of the game.

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9 hours ago, Modamy said:

I want a villain who is just another person. Someone who could very reasonably be the main character, but has become the villain because you are not playing the game from their perspective. I would find it the most engaging if the main villain of the game could be someone who doesn't have some grand scheme, radical beliefs, a god complex, or god forbid another possession, but just some guy following orders from his superiors and is fighting for his family, friends, and country. You would have to fight him because there is no talking your way out of it because you would both be cogs in the machine (by the way the "lord" should also be a low ranking soldier with a few men under his command) with no real influence on the whole of the war. I've been thinking of how interesting it would be to just be the leader of a small force in a much bigger conflict and you and your men are forced to participate in dozens of battles as just one unit and the idea of a another elite enemy unit that you would come against time and again just feels really interesting to me.

This is a really good idea.

I want one similar to one of the main villians of the hack i'm writing named Taron, who is the blind prince of the enemy country. He's not some badass blind guy who kicks ass, he's just a blind kid who has trouble walking because no one except his mother and his uncle help him around, not even the king or the kings servants. Throughout the game he sends groups of mercenaries across the main characters paths in order to stop them from coming to fight the king because he believes his father is to powerful to be beaten. When the main character finally reaches the king he ends up mounting one of the kingdoms many wyverns who he befriended during his time at the castle and tries to deliver something to the main protagonist, but before he can do that his father doesn't even recognize him and forced him to fight with "the rest of the soldiers." His stats reflect his terrible combat prowess with abysmal luck, skill, weapon ranks, and constitution, making him very easy to kill. You can have one of the 4 protagonists talk to him each resulting in different thins. One results in you automatically enging in a fight with him, one results him becoming a green unit, one triggers an automatic cutscene where he fights his dad/the king, and the last one results in him killing himself, all of these result in him giving you the fire emblem like object of the hack. He automatically tracks down one of the main character to talk to them, not the central main character, but the one resulting in the cutscene where he fights the king. Ultimately he is not a villian but throughout the game the way he is written the main characters think he is.Of course I'm leaving out how he goes all Takumi on the protagonists ass due to a Julius like cult thing. 

I don't expect him to be exactly like him obviously, I just want him to be kind of a Camus with more reason than just loyalty and duty.

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A pragmatic villain with several virtues. A person who has serval complex yet understandable and sensible plans and can execute them with scary complexity. They are human and can still make mistakes, but remain dignified and level-headed in defeat and know how to make the best of any failure. They don't commit needless atrocities not because they are good, but because they don't see the point or anything to gain, but are willing to use underhanded tactics if it's the only way to win  Honestly, I would be perfectly fine with the the Fire Emblem version of Grand Admiral Thrawn, but with enough uniqueness that it isn't a blatant copy-paste. I've read from TV Tropes that Hawk from Advance Wars fits this archetype, so IS potentially knows how to write one, although I haven't played the games myself and thus can't comment on his actual character. 

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YHVH and Dhaos appear and then they kill Kamui, leading to a war where YHVH eats all and then everyone dies. Then they world hop over to Elibe and die. 

 

Does that make sense? No? Yes? 

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My favourite villains are Zephiel, Arvis, and Lyon. What do they have in common? They are all sympathetic to a degree. You understand their motives. And to a degree you may agree with them. But somewhere along the way maybe they did something irredeemable or their end goal may be too extreme. I want more villains like this. Ideally, acting on their own instead of being possessed/manipulated by a dragon.

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Joseph Campbell describes a story's antagonist as the Shadow, because that's what a good villain should be. I don't want a villain who could be the protagonist if we were playing from their perspective. I want a villain who could have been the protagonist, and in fact has a lot in common with the protagonist, save for for a few wrong choices, a few weaker principles, ect. They WERE the protagonist of their story but at some point they went the Macbeth rout and gave in to their desires; desires the protagonist might share. They're a reflection in a pool; it's shaky and murky, but somewhere in there, the protagonist can just make out something that looks like them. Most great villains follow this pattern (not all, I can think of exceptions, but those work because they fit the plot or theme, which is obviously fine too, but I'd personally prefer a Shadow).

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