Worst Level in Fates?

[Ragnellius]

Fates was very divisive in terms of... Well, everything. But one of those things would be level design. Some people love it, some people hate it (I think Revelations was the worst overall when it came to maps), but I wanna hear everyone's opinion on what's the absolute bottom of the barrel. It could be because the level was too hard, too easy, didn't fit in with the story, had awkward design, whatever. Bottom line: What was the WORST level in Fire Emblem Fates as a whole?

Mine would have to be Chapter 17 of Conquest, Den of Betrayal. I used to think Chapter 25 where you fight Ryoma was worse, but after playing through Conquest again with a better understanding of the game, it was still hard, but not too bad. Den of Betrayal is stupid no matter HOW good your team is. One of the reasons is because almost every enemy in the level is a ninja, who lower stats like it were a damn fetish to them. Even if you put a tanky as hell unit like Effie or Benny in front, they'll start taking a ton of potshots, and those add up after awhile, turning their defenses into swiss cheese. And with ninjas having ranged attacks, it's dangerous to even send someone in to heal any damaged units! Another reason is because it's so damn cramped. You're constantly having to squeeze through tight hallways with dangerous enemies on the other side, and those dumb Dragon Veins make it even worse, sometimes blocking off your other units from coming with you by accident! Oh, and if you haven't been raising Kaze or Niles, good luck with the caltrops, because they make your mission even more of a pain in the ass. Yeah, you have Saizo (the sexiest ninja who ever lived) to help you get rid of them, but even he can get in the way and kill the boss before you've gotten all the treasures or exp! Overall, this chapter is just a slog to play through, and I always have an unpleasant experience clearing it. But that's just my stupid opinion, what's your least favorite chapter in Fates? Leave a reply below if you'd like, and thanks for reading!

[Magical Glace]

The snow shovelling in Revelations

Like, Ninja hell was annoying but at least you could move kinda fast?  Zola's Ice World is annoying in that it's insanely sluggish, can easily take an unaware player by surprise, and you can only bring 6 units, making it even more sluggish!

Just why.

 

[Ertrick36]

All the ninja chapters are a pain, but they at least keep you engaged.  In my opinion, the worst chapters are ones that are hardly ever engaging.

I gotta hand it to Revelation for somehow making pretty much the entire playthrough a giant slog.  As if getting all these units that may or may not be undertrained wasn't enough of a time sink for those who like training up their units, every single goddamn level is designed to take up as much of your time as physically possible.  The absolute worst, in my opinion, are Chapter 7, where you're literally running in the dark with only three (four, when you get to Gunter) units, Chapter 9 (AKA Mr. Fuga's Wild Ride) which feels like it's mostly RNG-based, and Chapter 11, which is the PoS ice-breaking level (why couldn't they have just kept Castle Izumo? that was actually decently fun in the other paths).  Ironically, the ninja chapter in this path is the funnest part.  And endgame's neat too, I guess.

My least favorite chapters in Birthright are 20-22.  Filler chapters that are just annoying to deal with.  20 has you jumping around in acid, fighting constantly spawning faceless that are merely a nuisance.  21, thankfully, can be skipped entirely if you use a flier, but otherwise is once again not all that fun, especially if you don't get the gimmick to the chapter right away.  And 22 is effectively a big, open field that sometimes spawns dudes; this one's just dull.

Conquest isn't without BS chapters either.  Once again, the Wind Tribe chapter is awful (why is it that Birthright's the only one that didn't make it so awful?), I hate dealing with the Kitsune, and I disliked the goddamn stairway of endless faceless that give 0 EXP.

In the end, Revelation's chapters win this battle of awfulness with a frickin' land slide.  There are barely redeemable map designs, from what I recall.  Just pointless gimmicks and long, long winding maps that take, like, 50 turns to complete and make you want to throw your 3DS out the window whenever a unit dies.  And I'm gonna concur with Glaceon in saying that the ice-breaking chapter is the lowest of low.  The fact that I'm almost willing to forgo the rewards so that I can just be done with this PoS level proves how terrible it is.  For me, the truest reward is merely getting Team Takumi on my side.  Fuck those stat boosters and fuck Tien's Z-Soul!  Shoutouts to anyone who gets that joke.

[deskita]

Birthright's chapter's aren't all that bad but the worst one is Chapter 23, Camilla's one as the dragon vein on the first turn destroys the structures yet doesn't tell you that which has always bothered me. Still not that bad.

Conquest has Chapter 10 Takumi's first battle, Chapter 17 the ninja cave, chapter 19 Kitsunes and the final chapter which are ones I dread. The worst in my opinion is Chapter 17 as it's just a bit slow and surprisingly dull.

Revelation all the moving platform levels are terrible and so are chapters 7 the bad fog of war,10 ice and 18 teleporters. The worst in my opinion is Chapter 10.

Overall I'd say the worst is chapter 10 of Revelation in map design. 

[Solvaij]

I'm kind of with you on Conquest 17, but for me Conquest's version of the Wind Tribe beats it in terms of just making me want to die.

[Shadow Mir]

I'd honestly say Ignatius's or Shiro's paralogues for much the same reason - that being that they're flat-out terribly designed for late game. The former is practically impossible to win late, and the latter... Well, I hope you made your peace with your Rescue staves, as you WILL need them.

Edited March 31, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Mandokarla]

Considering I'm of the opinion that Revelations shouldn't exist, I'll focus on BR/CQ. The worst map in my opinion is one of the following from Conquest: Eternal Stairway, Fugas Wild Ride, Furry Genocide. The first one is simply annoying and doesn't add much, the second is not awful --- unless you want both chests. If you want both chests, be prepared for a lot of annoying tedium. I hate the furry genocide because I generally don't like lategame chapters that encourage lowmanning. Effie + Beast Slayer is the only stress-free way to play that chapter, and that takes fucking forever. Every other way either requires super specific setups, rng in the form of hunter bow/knife/etc, or (what I did on lunatic) get Camilla with hand-axes and vulneraries to cheese the furries from the mountaintop. She didn't have D lances at this point, but if I had thought ahead she would have, and it would have been easier. 

[Bane]

The last Revelations moving platform challenge is the worst because you can't skip it with flight. I'm also not a fan of the revelations boat level because you just have to wait for a couple turns before you can start pushing back. The other revelations maps are boring and drawn out, but not nearly that bad.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Conquest maps are basically all excellent, easily series-best map design. Kitsune Lair is probably one of the weaker ones because of the illusion mechanic, but it's not terrible or anything. Fuga's Wild Ride is outstanding. I wouldn't want to play every chapter like that because it's gruelling, but it's still loads of fun and highly strategic.

Birthright... chapter 12 (Garon/Xander) is poor because you just cheese it with a flier, the end. Did they forget that? Should have been a great map where you'd have to outrun Xander, oh well. Chapter 20 (faceless mass) is a bad joke. Leo and Xander's chapters are both super-duper-mega-easy as well but there are plot reasons for both so I'm fine with that.

Revelation: that stupid darkness map (chapter 7) which takes forever, and snow shovelling both suck. While it's not the end of the world, the wait for the dragon veins in Camilla's map is bizarre and pointless too.

[joshcja]

Rev:8

Long dull map that has 0% chance of killing anyone and no good loot/exp. You just walk in a windy circle.

Hororable mentions to: the rest of early reveleations.

[anniec8711]

3 words:  Ninja Rape Cave

Those Poison Strike + Grisly Wound Ninjas can suck it (CQ 17 if anyone's wondering)

[Cysx]

14 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I'd honestly say Ignatius's or Shiro's paralogues for much the same reason - that being that they're flat-out terribly designed for late game. The former is practically impossible to win late, and the latter... Well, I hope you made your peace with your Rescue staves, as you WILL need them.

You don't, it's just really convoluted without them. Especially Shiro's.

One I don't see anyone mentioning is Siegbert's paralogue.  A truly broken map with infinite reinforcements of completely distinct unit types mixing with one another, with terrain you can't properly assess because of the way forest tiles are rendered. A shame too, because it's pretty beautiful.

But yeah, the snow map takes it. It's just absurd how bad that one is.

Edited April 1, 2018 by Cysx

[De Geso]

Rev chapter 7.

Why is it so long? Why do you only get 3 units and a Gunter at the end? Why is it so uninteresting?

[Strullemia]

The majority of the Rev. chapters. The first Rev chapter is one with a fog of war where you can only use three units and get Gunther only at the end. Then there's the snow chapter that's just a huge pain in the ass. There's fuga's wild ride, the boat chapter and some of the valla chapters where you need to wait in order to progress.

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, Cysx said:

You don't, it's just really convoluted without them. Especially Shiro's.

One I don't see anyone mentioning is Siegbert's paralogue.  A truly broken map with infinite reinforcements of completely distinct unit types mixing with one another, with terrain you can't properly assess because of the way forest tiles are rendered. A shame too, because it's pretty beautiful.

But yeah, the snow map takes it. It's just absurd how bad that one is.

Well, I sure as hell don't see a winning move for Ignatius's paralogue late, considering that he gets attacked by turn 2 (whereas you might not be able to get there before turn 4), and the ninjas can crit him... not to mention needing to dodge a Freeze staff en route. As for Shiro, he'll just kill himself on the nearest enemy if you don't rescue him.

As for non-paralogue maps, I say Conquest chapter 23 takes it just for the wall that always takes forever to get through, and having a high crit boss with TWO procs.

[Morswo]

I think it was Conquest chapter 26, it was a nightmare of staffs in lunatic.

[Dark Holy Elf]

11 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

As for non-paralogue maps, I say Conquest chapter 23 takes it just for the wall that always takes forever to get through, and having a high crit boss with TWO procs.

Vanilla Xander with a pairup and Siegfried has WTA on him, nulls his crit and survives his procs. C'mon LMC, for someone who is as aware of enemy crits as you, I would figure you'd have figured out the ways to deal with them!

The wall does take a while though you can shortcut the Hinata part of the map by using fliers to ferry.

2 hours ago, Cysx said:

One I don't see anyone mentioning is Siegbert's paralogue.  A truly broken map with infinite reinforcements of completely distinct unit types mixing with one another, with terrain you can't properly assess because of the way forest tiles are rendered. A shame too, because it's pretty beautiful.

Yeah I agree that terrain isn't rendered as well as it could be in this game. That said, in case you didn't know, the mini-map shows terrain unambiguously, so check that whenever you're unsure.

[Shadow Mir]

17 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Vanilla Xander with a pairup and Siegfried has WTA on him, nulls his crit and survives his procs. C'mon LMC, for someone who is as aware of enemy crits as you, I would figure you'd have figured out the ways to deal with them!

The wall does take a while though you can shortcut the Hinata part of the map by using fliers to ferry.

Hinata's squad is the least of my worries. I don't consider them worth engaging - they're too much trouble. As for Takumi, even if his crit is nullified, there's still Rend Heaven and Vengeance to deal with...and both have a 55% chance of activating (I'm not sure which one is checked for first). I consider that troubling to the extreme. Especially with that wall that I just can't make any big moves on until I make some enemies disappear. As for Xander, he's only one unit, and his speed might be an issue (and before you even THINK to mention Charlotte, I'll just remind you she's an awful unit who's not worth deploying).

[Dark Holy Elf]

Well if she keeps Xander from being doubled by Takumi I'd say she is worth deploying! But honestly I would think any +spd pairup will get the job done, though the specifics will depend on his RNG luck, whether you've given him Speedwings, etc.

As I said, Xander survives those procs (since he takes so little base damage due to his defence + WTA), so repeating them like I didn't understand you the first time isn't helping your cause.

[Ae†her]

I've always struggled with the first Takumi Boss Battle chapter. It's actually pretty hard just to defend those 5 spots with all the fliers coming in, and all of your units are not very reliable. Plus trying to take turns out for certain units visiting each of the homes. You can't even reliably send two units to one of the sides to actually stop the mob of invaders. I barely managed to do it with Arthur/Mozu and Beruka/Selena handling the sides, and Camilla in the sea trying to grab the attention of the fliers. What also sucks is that sometimes the fighters don't even try to attack Corrin one at a time, and sometimes just move in position for a dual strike against your guard stance...sigh.

I actually don't find Chapter 17 as hard because at that point my units were already built well enough to handle Ninjas (albeit the Master Ninjas were a bit of an issue), but at least the time given to develop your units helped a lot. I just remember having bad experiences with Chapter 10 (and Chapter 17, but again not as much).

Edited April 1, 2018 by Ae†her

[starburst]

My least favourite chapter is the one against the Wind Tribe in Conquest. Not because I lose a unit often, but because its mechanics make it painfully slow if one wants to get all the chests or more Experience points. In my opinion, the wind mechanic makes it boring and flawed, instead of challenging. It might have been better if the wind only changed every five turns or so, or every time an enemy reached an activation tile.

I do not think that it is flawed, but I utterly hate the Eternal Stairway. I honestly cannot imagine completing this chapter without a flyer unit and trained, competent mages. I only want it to end.

The Kitsune Mountains in Conquest can be tricky and challenging, or absolutely boring if one cheeses it by giving a Beast Killer to Camilla or Xander. I like it because it is all about positioning your weaker characters once you cross the stream and face the Kitsunes with Pass. Yes, a Kitsune might kill you anyway with a critical hit, but, all in all, it is fair.

As I mentioned on a different thread, I think that my perception of the Ninja Cave in Conquest was marked by my positive experience the first time I played it: I never suffered it.On that occasion, Saizo was so effective that it managed to clear the path and kill the boss for me.
Now I find it so predictable that I use it as an arena to class-change all my party and to grind a character outside of their main advanced class (say, giving a unit three level-ups on an alternate class so that they learn the desired skills and then go back to normal.)
I do nothing fancy, mind you, I simply 'turtle' my way doing an inverse 'C': I go south-east first, then all the way north-west, and lastly face the boss; it never fails. Saizo dies in a couple of turns, though.

 

In my experience, Hard Mode Conquest's Chapter 10 and Chapter 12 are more challenging than chapters 17, 19 or 20. Most likely because I have less 'effective' units and must use everything at my disposal at that point. I also find Takumi's Wall particularly difficult, more than Ryoma's Ninja Hell. I like these chapters, but I suffer them.

[NSSKG151]

If we are talking about a level from each game...

Conquest: Chapter 19 because I always find the kitsune (with their beastbane skill) and their illusions more annoying than the ninja underground dungeon that came two levels before it.

Birthright: I only played this route once but I remember Chapter 23 being annoying because of Camilla sitting on a dragon vein the entire level and requires you to be very strategic with how you position you units otherwise you will get zapped and get picked off by whatever enemy unit is nearby.

Revelation: Chapter 24 since it might just be me but I dislike stealth missions and the level basically requires you to use only one or two units with the locktouch skill. Plus if you are playing it for the first time a certain character tries to trick you at the end of the level.

[Cysx]

5 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Well, I sure as hell don't see a winning move for Ignatius's paralogue late, considering that he gets attacked by turn 2 (whereas you might not be able to get there before turn 4), and the ninjas can crit him... not to mention needing to dodge a Freeze staff en route. As for Shiro, he'll just kill himself on the nearest enemy if you don't rescue him.

I mean I did it for both, so...  Though Ignatius wasn't exactly lategame, more like chapter 20-ish. I don't exactly remember the details in either case. Shiro I can distinctly remember could survive one turn, perhaps with AI manipulation or some such.

5 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Yeah I agree that terrain isn't rendered as well as it could be in this game. That said, in case you didn't know, the mini-map shows terrain unambiguously, so check that whenever you're unsure.

Yeah, I know. At worst you can check space by space too. But planning around with such inconsistent mobility is a nightmare.

[Shadow Mir]

11 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Well if she keeps Xander from being doubled by Takumi I'd say she is worth deploying! But honestly I would think any +spd pairup will get the job done, though the specifics will depend on his RNG luck, whether you've given him Speedwings, etc.

As I said, Xander survives those procs (since he takes so little base damage due to his defence + WTA), so repeating them like I didn't understand you the first time isn't helping your cause.

Axe infantry that don't earn my respect, and especially bad axe infantry, of which Charlotte is the latter, are unwanted, and more to the point, unwelcome on my team. I mean, sure, she might be a good pair up bot, but at the end of the day, she is still taking up a unit slot that I could have put to better use...

I would imagine that, too, is based on RNG luck... Takumi has 50 attack counting Bowfaire. Xander has 27 base defense. Giving him 10 levels, he'd have 32 defence. After WTD, we're looking at 16 damage. Granted, that could be lowered by stuff like Rally Defense and Lily's Poise, but that's not exactly what I would call "taking so little base damage"... especially since it assumes you lucked out and neither Rend Heaven nor Vengeance activated. And this just makes me hesitant to take your word for it that Xander is an automatic breeze through Takumi. Which is not helped by speed and defense practically being mutually exclusive in terms of pair up bonuses. And my point is that because of Takumi's stats and the wall being a PITA, I'm under even more pressure to not get screwed since failing means needing to go through that again.

6 hours ago, Cysx said:

I mean I did it for both, so...  Though Ignatius wasn't exactly lategame, more like chapter 20-ish. I don't exactly remember the details in either case. Shiro I can distinctly remember could survive one turn, perhaps with AI manipulation or some such.

Any time after Offspring Seals become relevant is lategame, by my standards.

Edited April 2, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Noax]

I have only played the Birthright route, but I can say that Shiro's map was the worst for me. I learned of Offspring Seals before completing any of the Child Maps, so this is completely avoidable, but attempting when all the enemies are promoted is just painful, let alone right before Endgame! It basically comes down to some wonky Rescue chain to save Shiro from suicide-ing on a CLEARLY stronger unit.

Other than that, Tears of a Dragon (the final battle with Hans) was among my least favorites mainly due to a lack of terrain effects to use. All you got was one useful magic orb and some Dragon Veins that delay Wyvern reinforcements.