Valentia Accordion Translation Project Thread

[VincentASM]

9 minutes ago, Hawkwing said:

So they permanently sealed Forneu's workshop, but only if the building was still standing. I'm not certain if that was a lack of foresight, or they were expecting the building to be well-maintained by the local populace, telling them it would prevent a calamity.

I read it as the seal is meant to even if the city was destroyed. I just borrowed the official English translation, where they worded it a bit vague.

If you went by the Japanese translation, it would be more along the lines of:

"Even should the city crumble to sand.
None shall break the seal of the demon alchemist Forneus."

My theory is that the seal is a prototype Fire Emblem (because of its appearance and the way it's a shield that seals) and can only be undone by those with (divine) dragon blood. Which means they never expected, say, Alm and Celica to go there and undo the seal.

BTW, a few more tidbits from the book. I'm a bit lazy to translate the pages they're from, since the rest of the info is stuff we know.

The Zofian Royal Family

The rulers of Zofia, in order, are: Zofia I, Zofia II, Lima I, Lima II, Lima II and Lima IV (so 6 in total).

(Rigel is a bit more simpler. It's just Rigel I to III, then Rudolf.)

The Seasons of Valentia

Flostym, Avistym, Pegastym and Wyrmstym correspond to Spring, Summer, Autumn and Winter.

Canonically, there are 91 days in each season. (So 364 days in 1 year.)

[Interdimensional Observer]

2 hours ago, VincentASM said:

I think his insanity started ever since he lost his
beloved wife.

So he is officially in the Orson-Nergal club.

 

2 hours ago, VincentASM said:

The second was the creation of a singular, perfect being.

 

I hereby give Forneus the last name "Deathmasknik", and Grima "the Fellhog". I know there are countless instances of this, not just that one.

 

58 minutes ago, VincentASM said:

My theory is that the seal is a prototype Fire Emblem (because of its appearance and the way it's a shield that seals) and can only be undone by those with (divine) dragon blood. Which means they never expected, say, Alm and Celica to go there and undo the seal.

For those who have never seen it, here is the Sage's Shield

, which compared  is indeed practically the same.

So now we have multiple Fire Emblems. Naga wasn't exactly being original when she made hers. That's fine for me. Naga's brilliance was adding the Gemstones. Or is there something about the Star Jacinth in the Accordion? I wouldn't expect it being in grinding DLC.

 

1 hour ago, VincentASM said:

The Seasons of Valentia

Flostym, Avistym, Pegastym and Wyrmstym correspond to Spring, Summer, Autumn and Winter.

Canonically, there are 91 days in each season. (So 364 days in 1 year.)

Nice clarification. I just hope they throw in some intercalary/leap days once in a while. 364 indicates a solar calendar, which assume the planet takes 365.25 days to complete one cycle around its sun like our own, would mean that after 4 years, the calendar would be 5 days off where it should be. Over 40 years, it be 50, which would be very noticeable, and even more so after 80 years uncorrected, for 100 days off where it should be. At that point, Spring would fall in Wyrmstym and Pegastym would be Winter. 

The point to a solar calendar is to keep things aligned with the seasons (and any calendar has a cultural bias/reason for it- but a solar one still has to be useful outside of religion and culture), since the cycling around the sun is what causes them. Being off by an entire season ruins this utility of the calendar.

The Islamic Hegira calendar is purely lunar, probably because the Arabian deserts from which Islam originated don't really have seasons, so before the religion expanded, it didn't need to worry so much about keeping in line with the seasons. The Jewish calendar is lunisolar, based on the new-to-full-and-back cycling of the moon, but intercalary days are used to keep it in line with the cycling around the sun and the seasons consistent. 

Of course, the planet of Jugdral-Archanea-Valentia could just be exactly 364 in the cycle around its sun.

...My little lecture the different kinds of calendars hence ends.

[VincentASM]

50 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Of course, the planet of Jugdral-Archanea-Valentia could just be exactly 364 in the cycle around its sun.

...My little lecture the different kinds of calendars hence ends.

I think it might be that. The calendar was developed by an astronomer so they should have measured it accurately.

If not, it could explain the discrepancies with the Archanean calendar. But that could be simply the book's mistake since they mislabeled at least one year.

[Interdimensional Observer]

18 minutes ago, VincentASM said:

I think it might be that. The calendar was developed by an astronomer so they should have measured it accurately.

 

Well astronomers were responsible for the real ones, but sometimes for solars they overcompensated for a year's length, sometimes they under-compensated. The intercalary systems to keep things in check got out of hand- that is how the Romans revised their calendar to the Julian standard still used in Eastern Orthodox Christianity. The Gregorian was invented to replace the Julian because it was falling behind the seasons too much (well not really a lot- just a few days over the centuries, but bad by the standards of religious officials obsessed with keeping Easter in the right date frame).

But enough with this meaningless diatribe on calendars I've thrown together! I'll just assume 364 days for the FE planet to rotate around its sun. The Divine Dragons invented a Starsphere so they must know the heavens above quite well. And this Matthaus guy who invented the calendar must have had Mila's help, so I'll assume she got the calendar length in sync with the seasons down to the millisecond. 

Edited April 8, 2018 by Interdimensional Observer

[Hawkwing]

3 hours ago, VincentASM said:

My theory is that the seal is a prototype Fire Emblem (because of its appearance and the way it's a shield that seals) and can only be undone by those with (divine) dragon blood. Which means they never expected, say, Alm and Celica to go there and undo the seal.

Ah, that makes more sense. After rereading the previous entry, it seems as if Duma sent soldiers to destroy the tower before the seal was in place, although I could be wrong. Either way, it gives a good reason for Naga to be ticked with Duma's action.

3 hours ago, VincentASM said:

The rulers of Zofia, in order, are: Zofia I, Zofia II, Lima I, Lima II, Lima II and Lima IV (so 6 in total).

(Rigel is a bit more simpler. It's just Rigel I to III, then Rudolf.)

So Zofia has 6 kings in comparison to Rigel's 4. Does that just mean that Zofia's kings were established earlier, or did Rigel's leaders rulers live, or at least, reign, longer than their neighbors?

[Interdimensional Observer]

7 minutes ago, Hawkwing said:

So Zofia has 6 kings in comparison to Rigel's 4. Does that just mean that Zofia's kings were established earlier, or did Rigel's leaders rulers live, or at least, reign, longer than their neighbors?

The 2nd part of the timeline puts the founding of both in 189 VC. So I guess the Rigelian monarchs just lived longer. Not sure why, did Mila's decadence kill off one or two of the other ones prematurely via obesity? There could be a tens of realistic explanations.

8 minutes ago, Hawkwing said:

Ah, that makes more sense. After rereading the previous entry, it seems as if Duma sent soldiers to destroy the tower before the seal was in place, although I could be wrong. Either way, it gives a good reason for Naga to be ticked with Duma's action.

I'd agree with this. And Forneus could better hide and do evil research in a ruined city of corpses than a thriving civilization of presumed goodness.

[VincentASM]

21 minutes ago, Hawkwing said:

So Zofia has 6 kings in comparison to Rigel's 4. Does that just mean that Zofia's kings were established earlier, or did Rigel's leaders rulers live, or at least, reign, longer than their neighbors?

That's a good question and the paragraph that has this info actually explains it.

Apparently the corruption in the Zofian court persisted even before Lima IV's time. Basically, the Zofians were spoiled by Mila, and this led to conspiracies in the royal court. So that's why the Zofian rulers were more short-lived.

I assume the political problem that caused Lima II to promote Mycen was related to this. (And also why Mycen lived through so many Zofian kings.)

[omegaxis1]

47 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I'd agree with this. And Forneus could better hide and do evil research in a ruined city of corpses than a thriving civilization of presumed goodness.

I dunno. I get the feeling that Forneus was killed before Duma sent his soldiers to destroy Thabes.

[Hawkwing]

On 4/8/2018 at 12:40 PM, Interdimensional Observer said:

The 2nd part of the timeline puts the founding of both in 189 VC. So I guess the Rigelian monarchs just lived longer. Not sure why, did Mila's decadence kill off one or two of the other ones prematurely via obesity? There could be a tens of realistic explanations.

 

On 4/8/2018 at 12:53 PM, VincentASM said:

Apparently the corruption in the Zofian court persisted even before Lima IV's time. Basically, the Zofians were spoiled by Mila, and this led to conspiracies in the royal court. So that's why the Zofian rulers were more short-lived.

Looking back on the timeline, it seems that when Lima the III died, Lima the IV was little more than a child. Rudolf was also in power at this time, and he was anointed by the previous King Rigel III, who was alive to do so. It wouldn't surprise me if corruption in the court, along with the physical problems present from prosperity, combined together to shorten the lifespan of the Zofia rulers.

On 4/8/2018 at 12:40 PM, Interdimensional Observer said:

I'd agree with this. And Forneus could better hide and do evil research in a ruined city of corpses than a thriving civilization of presumed goodness.

On 4/8/2018 at 1:28 PM, omegaxis1 said:

I dunno. I get the feeling that Forneus was killed before Duma sent his soldiers to destroy Thabes.

Thinking back on it, Duma also has good reason for attacking Thabes either before or after the seal was put in place. If it was before, he jumped the gun at using force to destroy Grima. If it was after the seal was in place, then he thought the seal could backfire in someway, and that Grima had the potential to grow stronger as time passed, and tried to nip the bud as soon as he could.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Hawkwing

[Lightchao42]

I've been thinking about the number of Zofian and Rigelian rulers. Zofia and Rigel were both founded in 189 VC. Rudolf become the fourth ruler in 374, and Lima IV became the sixth ruler in 382. So Rigel had three rulers in 185 years and Zofia had five rulers in 193 years. In comparison, Daein had fourteen rulers (Pelleas being the most recent) and had existed for 243 years by the beginning of RD. So before the "current" generation, the average reign for Rigelian rulers was 61.67 years and for Zofian rulers it was 38.6 years. Counting Rudolf (died 401) and Lima IV (died 400), the averages are 53 years for Rigel and 35.17 years for Zofia.

Just something interesting to think about...

Edited April 8, 2018 by Lightchao42

[omegaxis1]

24 minutes ago, Hawkwing said:

Thinking back on it, Duma also has good reason to attacking Thabes either before or after the seal was put in place. If it was before, he jumped the gun at using force to destroy Grima. If it was after the seal was in place, then he thought the seal could backfire in someway, and that Grima had the potential to grow stronger as time passed, and tried to nip the bud  as soon as he could.

Dragons are inside the Labyrinth though, and the character file shows that Grima's door was guarded by many fafnirs. Meaning that dragons had gotten in there and were stationed to act as guards.

[Interdimensional Observer]

24 minutes ago, Lightchao42 said:

I've been thinking about the number of Zofian and Rigelian rulers. Zofia and Rigel were both founded in 189 VC. Rudolf become the fourth ruler in 374, and Lima IV became the sixth ruler in 382. So Rigel had three rulers in 185 years and Zofia had five rulers in 193 years. In comparison, Daein had fourteen rulers (Pelleas being the most recent) and had existed for 243 years by the beginning of RD. So before the "current" generation, the average reign for Rigelian rulers was 61.67 years and for Zofian rulers it was 38.6 years. Counting Rudolf (died 401) and Lima IV (died 400), the averages are 53 years for Rigel and 35.17 years for Zofia.

Rudolf is 50 right? Doesn't look like a contemporary IRL 50- more like a 60+ to me. However, people in yesteryear without such high living standards may have died sooner, so they would have aged faster.

But then if they did have shorter lifespans, and the contemporary average is ~80, what would a Medieval one be sans infant mortality? 60? But that is shorter than the 61 and third years of a Rigelian monarch!

 

I can accept 38.6 on the Zofian side, even if it is very unrealistic to have string of five those in a row, Mila could have made that happen. But Rigel's 61.67 is almost an impossibility unless they always chose a young child or an adult who lived or well into old age. And we know Rigel I was probably no Rolf-like shota.

Long story short- they didn't think the number of monarchs all the way through. 

 

You say pre-Pelleas was 13 Daein monarchs over 243 years? That is 18.69 years on average, much more reasonable by premodern standards than Valentia's. And Ashnard ruled for an almost perfectly average 19: 627-646, it takes a year to liberate Crimea invaded in 645.

And it coincidentally aligns with my calculation for the number of Begnion Empresses 36 in 625 years excluding Sanaki, or 17.36 years on average. Although Meshua reigned for 30 years we know, so that skews things for having to be shorter for someone else. 

?Errgh! Tellius, how could you fail me!? I can't find a monarchal number for Elincia or her father Ramon despite all the times she is called Queen of Crimea! Damn you! You give me two of the three Beorc realms, I know Dheg alone has ever ruled Goldoa, and I'd expect the underdeveloped other Laguz societies to not have regnal numbers known, but why'd you leave out Crimea?! If anyone can find one, please alert me.

If Crimea did have an 18 reign year average, hypothetically speaking since it's right between the Begnion and Daein numbers, then over its 255 years pre-Daein invasion, then we would have 14 maybe 15 monarchs pre-Elincia. Comparable to Daein, which is 15 years younger as a country.

[omegaxis1]

You know, I've been thinking. We know that Thabes is built by humans. But is it impossible to say that Thabes may actually have had dragons that worked there? Dragons are clearly able to transform into humans even before the case of being Manaketes became a thing, with Mila and Duma being the proof over it. So would that mean that the dragons lived there in Thabes possibly? 

Also, the Sage's Shield resembling the Shield of Seals. One could actually make an inference that perhaps the Sage's Shield was something that Naga or the Divine Dragons gifted to Thabes. You know, as a sign of goodwill and such. 

[Interdimensional Observer]

9 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

You know, I've been thinking. We know that Thabes is built by humans. But is it impossible to say that Thabes may actually have had dragons that worked there? Dragons are clearly able to transform into humans even before the case of being Manaketes became a thing, with Mila and Duma being the proof over it. So would that mean that the dragons lived there in Thabes possibly? 

 

So proto-Arcadia? A city of scalies-soft fleshies coexistence? Not impossible, but you'd think the Revelations would have mentioned this just wait for the Esoteric Super Hidden Revelations.

[omegaxis1]

19 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

So proto-Arcadia? A city of scalies-soft fleshies coexistence? Not impossible, but you'd think the Revelations would have mentioned this just wait for the Esoteric Super Hidden Revelations.

There's a lot of discrepancies as to why there seems to be Fafnirs guarding the door leading to Grima, why there's a Fire Dragon guarding the door with the Sage's Shield on it, and so forth. 

Not only that, but is Forneus Robin's ancestor? We get told a wife exists, but not a single mention of a child. 

[Sock]

On 4/7/2018 at 11:47 AM, VincentASM said:

--At the very least, it no longer has anything to do with me--

Anyone else bothered by this? It's inconsequential to everything, but it's bothering me. Why is it bothering me?

[Interdimensional Observer]

14 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Not only that, but is Forneus Robin's ancestor? We get told a wife exists, but not a single mention of a child. 

If there was no child, and Forneus we're sure died for good, then that means Forneus cannot be the bloodline. At this point, the bloodline would have had to come later, during Grima's coming out apocalypse.

And this is getting me thinking, if there was dragon-human coexistence in Thabes, we get into the speculative territory of Forneus having a dragon wife. Grima suddenly becomes speculatively the hybrid child they never had. 

[Armagon]

19 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Not only that, but is Forneus Robin's ancestor? We get told a wife exists, but not a single mention of a child. 

Before, i would've said yes but because there was no mention of a child, i doubt it. However

2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

And this is getting me thinking, if there was dragon-human coexistence in Thabes, we get into the speculative territory of Forneus having a dragon wife. Grima suddenly becomes speculatively the hybrid child they never had. 

this is a possibility. In Awakening, Nah says that she's the first human-dragon hybrid but whose to say that human-dragon marriages didn't happen in the past. Thabes was pretty advanced, it could've happened. Forenus' wife is never stated to be human or dragon. And after she died, Grima being the hypothetical child would still work but Forenus' mind as been twisted so instead of seeing him as his child, he sees him as tool. One that eventually grew too powerful so it had to be destroyed. And this would give Grima even more reason to hate humanity.

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 minute ago, Armagon said:

this is a possibility. In Awakening, Nah says that she's the first human-dragon hybrid but whose to say that human-dragon marriages didn't happen in the past. Thabes was pretty advanced, it could've happened. Forenus' wife is never stated to be human or dragon. And after she died, Grima being the hypothetical child would still work but Forenus' mind as been twisted so instead of seeing him as his child, he sees him as tool. One that eventually grew too powerful so it had to be destroyed. And this would give Grima even more reason to hate humanity.

I actually had Emeralda partly in mind speculating on this. Because she the colony of nanomachines is the child Kim and his Elly never could have normally b/c Zeboim environmental conditions made Elly infertile.

[omegaxis1]

7 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

If there was no child, and Forneus we're sure died for good, then that means Forneus cannot be the bloodline. At this point, the bloodline would have had to come later, during Grima's coming out apocalypse.

 

3 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Before, i would've said yes but because there was no mention of a child, i doubt it. However

The mention of a wife before felt like it was indeed confirming that Forneus had a child. But no, I feel like that isn't the case anymore, because said child is just never mentioned. You'd think that the child would have been mentioned from the Mage's Account, but no.

9 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

And this is getting me thinking, if there was dragon-human coexistence in Thabes, we get into the speculative territory of Forneus having a dragon wife. Grima suddenly becomes speculatively the hybrid child they never had. 

 

5 minutes ago, Armagon said:

this is a possibility. In Awakening, Nah says that she's the first human-dragon hybrid but whose to say that human-dragon marriages didn't happen in the past. Thabes was pretty advanced, it could've happened. Forenus' wife is never stated to be human or dragon. And after she died, Grima being the hypothetical child would still work but Forenus' mind as been twisted so instead of seeing him as his child, he sees him as tool. One that eventually grew too powerful so it had to be destroyed. And this would give Grima even more reason to hate humanity.

Meaning that Forneus is a combination of Nergal and Orson. Has a dragon wife. Has something of the dead wife to come back to him. 

But you know, perhaps this was actually the point when the decline would occur. Dragons are already nearly immortal after all, so it would take several hundred years or even thousands before dragons actually notices a decline in birth rates. So Forneus never had the hybrid possibly. After all, Nowi and then Nah and possibly Morgan are born 2000-3000 years after the decline occurred. By then, some of the major effects could have subsided. 

[Armagon]

5 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I actually had Emeralda partly in mind speculating on this. Because she the colony of nanomachines is the child Kim and his Elly never could have normally b/c Zeboim environmental conditions made Elly infertile.

Yeah, i was pretty much thinking of the same thing. Emeralda was created by analyzing Kim and Elly's DNA. If your theory about Grima being Forenus' hypothetical child is correct, a similar thing would happen. As he was creating Grima, Forenus gave him his blood. What does blood contain? DNA. Weird Fire Emblem genetics aside, DNA still exists. And if the Divine Dragon blood that he acquired was his wife's, then it would make more sense. Though i do feel that if that Divine Dragon blood was indeed his wife's, it would've been mentioned. And Forenus made it sound like it took him a while to get it. Maybe he dug up his wife's corpse (do dragons bury their dead?) after a while and obtained her blood that way?

Another thing that does support this theory is that Grima originally had a human shape. Now, the science of dragon reproduction in FE isn't known, so there's that to consider but i find it interesting that Grima's original shape is mentioned to begin with.

1000 years later, we know Grima made a pact with someone. If it's anything like the the Jugdral blood pacts, then this means that whoever made the pact with Grima now has Grima's blood (and DNA) flowing through him. And his descendants. Eventually that leads to Robin, thus, allowing Robin to be Forenus' descendant despite Forenus never having children the natural way.

 

[omegaxis1]

2 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Yeah, i was pretty much thinking of the same thing. Emeralda was created by analyzing Kim and Elly's DNA. If your theory about Grima being Forenus' hypothetical child is correct, a similar thing would happen. As he was creating Grima, Forenus gave him his blood. What does blood contain? DNA. Weird Fire Emblem genetics aside, DNA still exists. And if the Divine Dragon blood that he acquired was his wife's, then it would make more sense. Though i do feel that if that Divine Dragon blood was indeed his wife's, it would've been mentioned. And Forenus made it sound like it took him a while to get it. Maybe he dug up his wife's corpse (do dragons bury their dead?) after a while and obtained her blood that way?

Another thing that does support this theory is that Grima originally had a human shape. Now, the science of dragon reproduction in FE isn't known, so there's that to consider but i find it interesting that Grima's original shape is mentioned to begin with.

1000 years later, we know Grima made a pact with someone. If it's anything like the the Jugdral blood pacts, then this means that whoever made the pact with Grima now has Grima's blood (and DNA) flowing through him. And his descendants. Eventually that leads to Robin, thus, allowing Robin to be Forenus' descendant despite Forenus never having children the natural way.

Grima was a homunculus. The human fluids involved *cough*semen*cough*. 

You know, maybe Forneus actually stole the Divine Dragon Blood from the council? Perhaps there was this kind of pact where they would give divine dragon blood to some people where they would be exalted or something, to be blessed with the blood of the gods. But Forneus stole it for his own research. 

[Armagon]

3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Grima was a homunculus. The human fluids involved *cough*semen*cough*. 

Which would still contain Forenus' DNA. Like, even if the Divine Dragon blood wasn't his wife, Grima still has Forenus' DNA one way or another. Which means that yeah, Robin is totally Forenus' descendant. Just, not in the traditional way.

7 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

You know, maybe Forneus actually stole the Divine Dragon Blood from the council? Perhaps there was this kind of pact where they would give divine dragon blood to some people where they would be exalted or something, to be blessed with the blood of the gods. But Forneus stole it for his own research.

This seems more likely. Forenus made it sound like getting the Divine Dragon blood took him a while. The possibility that it was his wife's is still there but this one makes more sense.

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Armagon said:

Which would still contain Forenus' DNA. Like, even if the Divine Dragon blood wasn't his wife, Grima still has Forenus' DNA one way or another. Which means that yeah, Robin is totally Forenus' descendant. Just, not in the traditional way.

This seems more likely. Forenus made it sound like getting the Divine Dragon blood took him a while. The possibility that it was his wife's is still there but this one makes more sense.

I don't think that Forneus's wife was a dragon or even a divine one, but maybe SOMETHING sparked his desire to create a god. Maybe the feeling of being powerless to save his wife resulted in him believing that if he can create a god and control the dead, he is a god himself. He wants to stand over things.

Also, I feel that it definitely feels like there's a high chance for the Council to have Divine Dragon blood. The humans were taught by the dragons. There was clearly a strong relationship between the two species here. I would not put it past Naga to entrust her blood or another divine blood along with the Sage's Shield as some sign of goodwill, that the trust between dragons and humans is strong. 

Then Duma and Forneus screwed things over.

[Shotguner159]

I wonder how Loptyr and Forneus' knew each other, given this origin for the Risen - and therefore the Deadlords, as they were Risen in Awakening.