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General Character Usefulness Discussion


Smfthegeek
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49 minutes ago, smfthegeek said:

So my question about Olivia is do i need to rely on her luck for things like lethality to take out big enemies? She just seems to lack the brute strength of others. Shes like lv 106 she has luna pavis luck+20 galeforce lethality and astra. what should i do to maximize her usefulness? Like it takes forever to take out lv 120 enemies with her but super quick with Lyn whos like lv 110 which isnt a big difference

Does she have True Power/Divine Favor yet? My Olivia is about the same level with the same offensive skills (minus Galeforce) and she shreds enemies, but she won't get much with a weak weapon. I also have Amped on her, not sure how big of an effect it's having.

You could say she relies on luck for Lethality, but she activates it so often it feels more like she's unlucky when it doesn't happen.

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3 hours ago, smfthegeek said:

So my question about Olivia is do i need to rely on her luck for things like lethality to take out big enemies? She just seems to lack the brute strength of others. Shes like lv 106 she has luna pavis luck+20 galeforce lethality and astra. what should i do to maximize her usefulness? Like it takes forever to take out lv 120 enemies with her but super quick with Lyn whos like lv 110 which isnt a big difference

If you add critical focus to her weapon then she can break enemy stun gauges very easily. Doing this makes it take much less time to defeat captains because more critical hits means more lethality

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So AI stuff ignores skills or something, right?

I was noticing yesterday as I was switching around that Olivia (with Luna, her 160 power weapon and I think luck+20)was doing nothing to enemies in the hands of the AI. Like, not even slivers of damage over a prolonged period of time. I actually had to have her retreat to a base while I cleaned up messes elsewhere because while she was doing nothing to anyone (a demoralized validar) she was almost dying. 

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On 4/10/2018 at 9:35 PM, r_n said:

So AI stuff ignores skills or something, right?

I was noticing yesterday as I was switching around that Olivia (with Luna, her 160 power weapon and I think luck+20)was doing nothing to enemies in the hands of the AI. Like, not even slivers of damage over a prolonged period of time. I actually had to have her retreat to a base while I cleaned up messes elsewhere because while she was doing nothing to anyone (a demoralized validar) she was almost dying. 

It's not entirely known how the AI works, but some things have more impact than others. For example, slayers have a huge impact and let them kill in seconds, but most normal skills don't really seem to do anything.

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13 hours ago, Tables said:

It's not entirely known how the AI works, but some things have more impact than others. For example, slayers have a huge impact and let them kill in seconds, but most normal skills don't really seem to do anything.

Hm... is it possible that they ignore Luna then?

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12 hours ago, smfthegeek said:

So between Camilla and Minerva, which one is truly superior? (also I'm starting to think Linde is slightly more useful than Robin/Tharja due to her luck)

If we are just talking about raw stats then I think Minerva is better due having higher strength, luck and defense. The only thing Camilla has better than her is res which is only 30 points higher at max level and still isn't even that impressive.

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10 hours ago, smfthegeek said:

So between Camilla and Minerva, which one is truly superior? (also I'm starting to think Linde is slightly more useful than Robin/Tharja due to her luck)

Pretty sure it's Minerva, at least without skills involved

Strength/Skill/Luck for Camilla at 150: 144/121/76
Strength/Skill/Luck for Minerva at 150:  175/115/102

The differences in these stats basically sticks through their other levels.

Significantly higher strength & luck with only marginally smaller killer. Minerva also has higher hp, speed and defense. The only thing that Camilla really has going is her res is 60 while Minerva's is 32.

Camilla can run Topsy-Turvy, though. Her magic stat is a respectable 110. Lissa outshines her there but, hey, flying magic axe is something.

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11 hours ago, smfthegeek said:

So between Camilla and Minerva, which one is truly superior? (also I'm starting to think Linde is slightly more useful than Robin/Tharja due to her luck)

 

They're very close performance wise. Minerva deals a lot more damage. At max level for example with Amped, Luna and Luck+20, Minerva's higher strength and luck let her deal 10% more damage on every attack compared to Camilla - while also having a 71% lethality chance vs. Camilla's 55%. However defensively, Minerva has a major weakness to magic, taking 67% more damage from magic compared to Camilla. And considering how common mages tend to be, especially in harder maps, this can be an issue for her durability.

As a point of comparison, assuming the same skills but no Amped, at a much lower level - say, level 60, with a 240 power Brave/prf weapon: Minerva deals about 10% more damage, and she takes about 54% more from magic as a % of her HP (the ratio is different as they haven't capped HP yet). So the difference there is smaller, but also her magic vulnerability is more of an issue - she can get really messed up by mages. As a result, you might well want to run Res+10 on her at lower levels, since avoiding mages altogether - which Minerva can kill pretty efficiently - is a bad idea.

 

Overall though, Minerva is better when played well due to the higher damage she can output, and her weaker defences not mattering too much. Camilla on the other hand has the advantage of being more reliable for players who get hit more, due to having reasonable Res - and especially if you make use of her high magic by using Statflip she can become a fortress of defences, with huge Def and Res.

Edited by Tables
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So between Linde and Robin/Tharja.. I believe you can simply get more use out of Linde due to her staff usage and much higher luck and she still maintains just as good magic as Robin/Tharja and my previous thought of her moveset being a bit wonky was immediately changed when I slapped Astra on her.

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6 hours ago, smfthegeek said:

I believe you can simply get more use out of Linde due to her staff usage

This costs you a healing item (unless you slap on Live to Serve, which costs you a skill slot). You're better off having another unit as your staff user.

6 hours ago, smfthegeek said:

much higher luck and she still maintains just as good magic as Robin/Tharja and my previous thought of her moveset being a bit wonky was immediately changed when I slapped Astra on her.

Even with Astra, her moveset just isn't as versatile as Robin's/Tharja's. They have a complete 180 pivot during their combos, and their fully charged C1 gives them superarmor (or whatever it's called). Linde's fully charged C1 is slower, and she is vulnerable from an attack from behind, and with her terrible Defense, that is not a good thing.

In the end, Linde is better for Arenas due to her high Luck stat, Robin/Tharja (Robin is slightly better overall) for everything else.

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3 hours ago, MrPerson0 said:

This costs you a healing item (unless you slap on Live to Serve, which costs you a skill slot). You're better off having another unit as your staff user.

Even with Astra, her moveset just isn't as versatile as Robin's/Tharja's. They have a complete 180 pivot during their combos, and their fully charged C1 gives them superarmor (or whatever it's called). Linde's fully charged C1 is slower, and she is vulnerable from an attack from behind, and with her terrible Defense, that is not a good thing.

In the end, Linde is better for Arenas due to her high Luck stat, Robin/Tharja (Robin is slightly better overall) for everything else.

Ok well, can you please give me a good way to make Tharja good? Her luck is just TERRIBLE. and I can't seem to figure out a way to make her quickly kill things because she will almost NEVER activate lethality, unlike Linde who can easily activate it and has much higher magic. The only downside I see to Linde is that she's a bit frail and her attacks are rather front focused along with the fact it takes two times of enemies showing their white bar to break it. It's just compared to Lindes quick lethality killing, I just can't figure out a way to make Tharja good :(

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56 minutes ago, smfthegeek said:

Ok well, can you please give me a good way to make Tharja good? Her luck is just TERRIBLE. and I can't seem to figure out a way to make her quickly kill things because she will almost NEVER activate lethality, unlike Linde who can easily activate it and has much higher magic. The only downside I see to Linde is that she's a bit frail and her attacks are rather front focused along with the fact it takes two times of enemies showing their white bar to break it. It's just compared to Lindes quick lethality killing, I just can't figure out a way to make Tharja good :(

For most, if not, all characters, I have moved on to a Luna/Astra/Lethality/Galeforce/Vengeance/filler (Luck +20 is paired up, Long Wolf if not). Tables and ShadowMario3 seem to have done some testing and agreed that Vengeance at 1 HP is a 300-400% boost, which basically makes it "always Lethality" for normal and strong attacks. With Prayer Crest III, you should be able to take three hits at 1 HP before dying. However, in Awakening Mode, you can never go below 1 HP, so this synergizes very well with Galeforce as long as you have a lot of captains in the area to maintain your Awakening. In this case, will be good to have both Prayer Crest III and Serenity Crest III (Fills the Awakening gauge much faster) on your unit.

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27 minutes ago, MrPerson0 said:

For most, if not, all characters, I have moved on to a Luna/Astra/Lethality/Galeforce/Vengeance/filler (Luck +20 is paired up, Long Wolf if not). Tables and ShadowMario3 seem to have done some testing and agreed that Vengeance at 1 HP is a 300-400% boost, which basically makes it "always Lethality" for normal and strong attacks. With Prayer Crest III, you should be able to take three hits at 1 HP before dying. However, in Awakening Mode, you can never go below 1 HP, so this synergizes very well with Galeforce as long as you have a lot of captains in the area to maintain your Awakening. In this case, will be good to have both Prayer Crest III and Serenity Crest III (Fills the Awakening gauge much faster) on your unit.

How long does veangance take to go into effect though??

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2 minutes ago, smfthegeek said:

How long does veangance take to go into effect though??

Depends on the difficulty of the level. By the time you need it (against character units), you should be at 1 HP, don't really need it against normal captains with 720 might weapons.

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16 minutes ago, MrPerson0 said:

Depends on the difficulty of the level. By the time you need it (against character units), you should be at 1 HP, don't really need it against normal captains with 720 might weapons.

Ok my one question is why is linde considered trash because her magic is huge in comparison to tharjas and the only thing thats a major downside is her rather frontloaded moveset

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7 minutes ago, smfthegeek said:

Ok my one question is why is linde considered trash because her magic is huge in comparison to tharjas and the only thing thats a major downside is her rather frontloaded moveset

Who said that she was considered trash? She just doesn't have as good a moveset as Robin/Tharja, which is needed for a waveclearing/dueling, and in Warriors, most of the fun comes from movesets (which is why people love Lyn/Navarre and Ryoma/Owain). which are needed for S ranking the map in a fast time. Also, I listed one of the biggest reasons, her fully charged C1 is terrible if it leaves her wide open to attacks from behind and is slow. Robin/Tharja's fully charged C1 is unstoppable, and they are not open to attacks from the enemy while they perform it.

Also, Magic stat is pretty pointless when you are using a 720 might weapon, because at that point, str/mag really doesn't matter, especially when it's a 20 point difference.

If you like Linde, ok, great. But that's not going to change the fact that the majority of people sees Robin's/Tharja's moveset being much better, which makes them more versatile.

Edited by MrPerson0
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Linde is definitely a little underrated. She's got the worst moveset of the mages, mostly due to her C1 being lacklustre and her dueling being not great as a result, but her huge luck definitely helps her secure kills quickly once she does have that C1 ready to go.

Edited by Tables
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8 hours ago, MrPerson0 said:

Who said that she was considered trash? She just doesn't have as good a moveset as Robin/Tharja, which is needed for a waveclearing/dueling, and in Warriors, most of the fun comes from movesets (which is why people love Lyn/Navarre and Ryoma/Owain). which are needed for S ranking the map in a fast time. Also, I listed one of the biggest reasons, her fully charged C1 is terrible if it leaves her wide open to attacks from behind and is slow. Robin/Tharja's fully charged C1 is unstoppable, and they are not open to attacks from the enemy while they perform it.

Also, Magic stat is pretty pointless when you are using a 720 might weapon, because at that point, str/mag really doesn't matter, especially when it's a 20 point difference.

If you like Linde, ok, great. But that's not going to change the fact that the majority of people sees Robin's/Tharja's moveset being much better, which makes them more versatile.

Errata: Robin's moveset: I've done some testing now that Tharja finally got Astra and she's... got some differences alright:

For the first thing, I can now confirm that Goetia is not just Rexaura with a different animation. It lasts about 1 second more than Rexaura but there's more time in-between each hit and it doesn't keep the opponent in place which means they're able to recover and escape some of these hits... including the final hit! In addition, only Goetia's last hit hits behind Tharja while Rexaura hits behind Robin for all of them. So to sum it up: Goetia lasts longer, deals less damage on average to both HP and Stun Gauge, and is less safe than Rexaura in general.

Furthermore, with Robin, I can do this:

And while I have had some success in replicating this with Tharja (except for the part where I managed to execute the crit, the Stun Gauge went away just before the final hit), it seems much harder to do with her. (I blame her weird dodge.)

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On 4/15/2018 at 5:50 AM, Tables said:

Linde is definitely a little underrated. She's got the worst moveset of the mages, mostly due to her C1 being lacklustre and her dueling being not great as a result, but her huge luck definitely helps her secure kills quickly once she does have that C1 ready to go.

I do agree that her combos leave her rather unsafe but slap critical focus on Aura and you're pretty much fine because with lethality and luck+20 she can pretty much decimate something before her defense and openings become too big of an issue. I mean don't get me wrong but I believe at a certain point this game stops getting challenging. The highest level of history mode was Olivia's opus I think, and I did that S-rank on my first try.

Edited by smfthegeek
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I mean is there anywhere you can recommend to me that would be difficult? I think I've finally gotten my warriors to the point of making the game too easy :( 

I guess you could say most levels now lack the strategy and difficulty that made the game what it is.

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2 hours ago, smfthegeek said:

I mean is there anywhere you can recommend to me that would be difficult? I think I've finally gotten my warriors to the point of making the game too easy :( 

I guess you could say most levels now lack the strategy and difficulty that made the game what it is.

Use the infernal blessing to make all enemies level 150. They hit harder and are harder to take down. It adds a significant difficulty boost if you're finding the game too easy

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1 hour ago, AJ Okami said:

Use the infernal blessing to make all enemies level 150. They hit harder and are harder to take down. It adds a significant difficulty boost if you're finding the game too easy

Is it pricey?

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