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37 minutes ago, illegal knight said:

stats with 0 critical rates still able to (rarely) perform critical strike to player's units with decent luck stats

No... they won't? If an enemy has zero crit against your unit, then they will never perform a critical hit, and the only game where I can recall luck increasing crit rate is Gaiden/SOV, and most if not all enemies to my knowledge have 0 luck. Luck has an effect on hit rate and evasion, raising them by 1 in most games, with SD halving those effects 

skills for archer like class I created:

name: (work in progress)

Steady Hand: grants hit + 15 during player phase and Avoid + 15 during enemy phase 

keen Eye: Automatically dodge the first attack directed at you on enemy phase 

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16 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

No... they won't? If an enemy has zero crit against your unit, then they will never perform a critical hit, and the only game where I can recall luck increasing crit rate is Gaiden/SOV, and most if not all enemies to my knowledge have 0 luck. Luck has an effect on hit rate and evasion, raising them by 1 in most games, with SD halving those effects 

skills for archer like class I created:

name: (work in progress)

Steady Hand: grants hit + 15 during player phase and Avoid + 15 during enemy phase 

keen Eye: Automatically dodge the first attack directed at you on enemy phase 

Yes they are. Since FE6 till now, they still able to do it. Even in 100:1 battles, it still counted.

Hmmm... is it unpromoted class or promoted one?

Keen Eye: when the enemy performs double hits, damage taken ×2 when got hit by 2nd attack. For balancing, since the Steady Hand already gave Avoid +15. Beside, not all units able to performed double attacks according to their stats, except when they wield their Brave Weapons.

Edited by illegal knight

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Just now, illegal knight said:

Yes they are. Since FE6 till now, they still able to do it. Even in 100:1 battles, it still counted.

Hmmm... is it unpromoted class or promoted one?

Keen Eye: when the enemy performs double hits, damage taken +50% when got hit by 2nd attack. For balancing, since the Steady Hand already gave Avoid +15.

0 crit = 0 crit. They will not perform a critical hit.

Unprompted. I'll think of a promotion later 

the way you worded keen eye makes it sound like I'd be taking MORE damage 

I'm trying to build this class as a weaker but more dodgy archer 

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Just now, DisobeyedCargo said:

The way you worded keen eye makes it sound like I'd be taking MORE damage 

I'm trying to build this class as a weaker but more dodgy archer 

Only for 2nd hit. Remember, not all units able to double hits according to both Spd stats, except when they wield their Brave Weapons. Beside, it still able to dodge since the class has granted +15 Avoid as long as enemy's turn.

If there's no downside at all, turn the chessboard over! How would you do when you faced the massive enemy numbers which have same class as you created? First hit always missed and second hit (also may missed) with just only normal damage (if the unit able to double hits), and the unit lost his/her turn after hitting the air. If you used to play FE6 which total turns affect good/bad endings, you will understand well.

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1 minute ago, illegal knight said:

Only for 2nd hit. Remember, not all units able to double hits according to both Spd stats, except when they wield their Brave Weapons. Beside, it still able to dodge since the class has granted +15 Avoid as long as enemy's turn.

If there's no downside at all, turn the chessboard over! How would you do when you faced the massive enemy numbers which have same class as you created? First hit always missed and second hit (also may missed) with just only normal damage (if the unit able to double hits), and the unit lost his/her turn after hitting the air. If you used to play FE6 which total turns affect good/bad endings, you will understand well.

But that makes keen eye useless, since all it will do is increase damage dealt to you.

 

all that does is remove the will to put the close range archer in the frontlines since double attacks will destroy them, which is the point of the close range archer, deploying them in the front lines.

The original keen eye would only make them auto dodge the first attack of enemy phase directed st them, not make them immune to non follow up attacks

 

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1 minute ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

But that makes keen eye useless, since all it will do is increase damage dealt to you.

 

all that does is remove the will to put the close range archer in the frontlines since double attacks will destroy them, which is the point of the close range archer, deploying them in the front lines.

The original keen eye would only make them auto dodge the first attack of enemy phase directed st them, not make them immune to non follow up attacks

 

No no no....keen eyes is very useful skill. You can destroy enemies lines which can't perform double hits and distracting enemy's heavy special units (as artillery or long-range tomes) which also unable to double attack. The balancing idea before were for players who forced to battles againts the enemy units which have same class as you create. Just look into the bright side! Just imagine you battle a boss character with the same class as yours!

BTW, frontline for facing directly to the enemy's forces is not the nature of Archers. That's why Fire Emblem made all Bow never have 1 range. Naturally not only double attack, just one single strike from a Cavalier might made the Archer meet their own demise. That's the unwritten rules about battlefields.

First phase....you mean first turn only?

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9 minutes ago, illegal knight said:

No no no....keen eyes is very useful skill. You can destroy enemies lines which can't perform double hits and distracting enemy's heavy special units (as artillery or long-range tomes) which also unable to double attack. The balancing idea before were for players who forced to battles againts the enemy units which have same class as you create. Just look into the bright side! Just imagine you battle a boss character with the same class as yours!

BTW, frontline for facing directly to the enemy's forces is not the nature of Archers. That's why Fire Emblem made all Bow never have 1 range. Naturally not only double attack, just one single strike from a Cavalier might made the Archer meet their own demise. That's the unwritten rules about battlefields.

First phase....you mean first turn only?

But the point of this class is that it's a version of the archer designed for the front lines, hench the special 1-2 range bow type and the increased ht and avoid rate, as well as auto dodging first hit of each enemy phase. This encourages their use on the front lines, while among them overall weaker in terms of strength as a balancing act.

making keen eye only increase the damage you TAKE completely removes any incentive to put them on the front line, the whole point of the class 

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25 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

But the point of this class is that it's a version of the archer designed for the front lines, hench the special 1-2 range bow type and the increased ht and avoid rate, as well as auto dodging first hit of each enemy phase. This encourages their use on the front lines, while among them overall weaker in terms of strength as a balancing act.

making keen eye only increase the damage you TAKE completely removes any incentive to put them on the front line, the whole point of the class 

Autododge first attack to this unit by each enemy?  That's mean, after cavalier A attack first and miss, in the next turn cavalier A now able to hit while cavalier B missed the hit because it's the cavalier B's first attack. Like this?

 

As I said before: do NOT brings any archer-units (or mage-units) to the front lines whatever their class-design! It's not their path! They must stay behind melee-units! If still insist this class must be deployed to the front, this class would be benched for good and used the natural dodgetanker infantry classes as Swordmasters or even Rogues/Assassins wielded with 1-2 ranged weapons. What do you think about the most enemy's front line units are? Pegasus Knights?

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3 minutes ago, illegal knight said:

Autododge first attack to this unit by each enemy?  That's mean, after cavalier A attack first and miss, in the next turn cavalier A now able to hit while cavalier B missed the hit because it's the cavalier B's first attack. Like this?

 

As I said before: do NOT brings any archer-units (or mage-units) to the front lines whatever their class-design! It's not their path! They must stay behind melee-units! If still insist this class must be deployed to the front, this class would be benched for good and used the natural dodgetanker infantry classes as Swordmasters or even Rogues/Assassins wielded with 1-2 ranged weapons. What do you think about the most enemy's front line units are? Pegasus Knights?

No the very first attack that targets the unit is auto dodged, all other attacks are treated as normal until the next enemy phase 

but the point of this class is an archer type unit that can fight on or near the front lines, they have 1-2 range, are better at dodging and are built bulkier while sacrificing overall strength as a way to balance them, archers would be stronger but have no enemy phase as well as not having as much survivability. Like how wyverns are meant for the front lines due to how their stats differ from Pegasus knights.

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14 hours ago, illegal knight said:

Okay...allow me to analize it if you don't mind...

And you request about "update" ideas from Sacred Stones era into Fates era, yes? Now let's get started.

From Sacred Stones yes, I still remember about the gentle Franz, the cheerful Tana, and the elegant Cormag. But the cute Myrrh (manakete) isn't ground unit. She is an airborne unit which no suffers any terrain penalties as well as never gain terrain bonus, and weak againts bows and anti-dragon weapons. No wonder why she has wings, right? You may proove it later on.

Back to main topic,

Since Basilisk Riders has passive ability which have a change to petrify the enemy, the damage output would be relatively weak. Low Str and low Mag. Their physical damage may equal to Pegasus Knights and their magical damage may equal to Monks (FE8). So their critical attack which adding change to petrificating would works well and balance.

Basilisk Rider. Lance E, Tome E. Skills:

Lv.1.: Sandcruise. Able to move without any movement reductions on the desert areas, but unable to move on the icy areas. Hence, as lizard's nature.

Lv.10.: Rockgazer. Add a change to petrifies the enemy when successfully land the critical attack. Trigger : (Luck/3)%

Promotion after Lv.10 or more:

-Basilisk Knight. Lance D, Tome E, Axe E. Skills:

Lv.5.: Lighting Breath. Able to attack or counterattack the enemy when unarmed. Ignore enemy's Def and Res. Damage output : (Str+Mag)÷2

Lv.15.: Hike. The user and all allies 3 tiles radius around the user are able to move on the mountainous areas.

-Basilisk Warlock. Lance E, Tome D. Skills:

Lv.5.: Quadraspell. Change to hit the enemy four times with 0,75 base damage output. Tome only. Trigger : ((Mag+Spd)÷3)%

Lv.15.: Lightning Aura. After the battle, all enemies 2 tiles radius around the user are hit by lightning and suffers damage 20% of their current HP. May petrify the enemies. (current petrifying rate) + 3%

I just try to describe your descriptions as well as implementing them to the latest World of Fire Emblem with a warning: many people would disagree about "still able to combat even lost the weapon".

Perhaps I may wrong, but is the character with the Basilisk Rider class in your mind is a cunning young woman who seek revenge?

And other question: even I'd tried to balancing it as well, I want to know: how your character with the class above and the allies fights the massive numbers of enemy units with the same classes as your described?

I never used Myrhh, tbh, so I didn't know a lot about her... Interesting unit and sprite, yes, but was afraid of usurping the dragonstones (only having 50 in all!) of hers to the point where she couldn't be used again, as I didn't know of any means of replacing/repairing them at the time, which I later found out can't happen except by one method, though at the time, didn't know the existence of the 'Enemy control glitch' in FE7 and FE8.

Regardless, your adaptations of my class to modern Fire Emblem standards looks great! Sandcruise is a nice touch, as I never did consider to make them native to the desert, in all honesty, though it's quite a possibility now. Overall, I never would've considered the statistic balances either, with the unit overall being very luck-dependent.

When you mention the character with the rider class in mind is in fact a woman, yes, not incredibly young though, about... late 20s/early 30s, maybe. A commander/general of sorts with high respect, but can be cold and, if she needs to be, rather cruel. Kind of suffers from bipolar personality shifts, which brings out her cruel side at times... Might make her a Warlock with that considered. She's wise and brilliant in forming strategies when not hindered by her secondary, somewhat chaotic side, otherwise, she tries to keep a sense of professionalism when viewed in the public's eyes. But she is on the opposing side... so still a threat either way.

The Knights are treated like, well, the Knights/Generals/Great Knights of the earlier games; high defensive statistics, but slow overall, so armor-slaying equipment helps there alongside cold damage. Warlocks/Riders naturally have high resistance (with the former getting a slight boost in speed, albeit not too grand), but lower than adequate defenses, making magic offenses against them somewhat useless except if one uses cold magic (contrary to still being magic damage).

As I stated, my knowledge of later installments post-GBA is minimal; I haven't gotten myself any new Nintendo consoles since the Wii, and I never got a DS either... so I would be lucky if I got my hands on Radiant Dawn or Path of Radiance for the GC (though considering the prices they're going for on Ebay, it's unlikely). That said, I do have two other units unrelated to the basilisk rider, one of which is not promoteable (with a lot of gimmicks to try and sort out, for it's not a combat-focused unit; think like the bard/dancer in this regard), with the other having two promotion choices. Considering my roleplay to be, I think them to workish; when I have them more or less configured, I'll post them. Overall, thank you again for the update to my class; may or may not need further help in the future!

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4 hours ago, illegal knight said:

As I said before, I can't finish playing it since the 3DS isn't mine. Rally Skills isn't unlocked yet and that's not the point. I saw you misunderstanding about how the Skills stacking. BTW, this is the first time when someone told me that I played the game WRONG because often got critical hits. Even the fact is, enemies with low skill stats with 0 critical rates still able to (rarely) perform critical strike to player's units with decent luck stats. Fortunately almost all enemy's critical hits has been blocked out by pair-up units.

The stacking different Skills isn't the same as total effect. Example below.

A female Knight got Rally Def and Gentilhomme, the Knight have:

-Def+2 (own Skill)

-Rally Def (boost Def stat +4)

-Gentilhomme (damage taken -2)

The female Knight got [own total def] + 2 + 4, with damage taken -2, so the female Knight have damage taken reduced by her total def and the damage reduced again by 2 because Gentilhomme stacked as a separated entity. All those skills stacked as reduce physical damage taken.

Same with the example case of my Skill creation, below:

- Own critical ev. based by stats

- example Skill with +10 critical ev.

- Awareness (my skill creation)

So, the unit will have [own critical evasion based by own stats] + 10, with Awareness Skill. All those skills staked as anti-critical-incoming rates.

The Skill has own separated entity stacked with own critical evasion Skill and stat-based one.

BTW, did someone counting it like: [own critical evasion based by own stats]  + 10 + Awareness % ????? If you counting like it, no wonder if the Skill will almost or never activated. It will same as the unit with 8 critical evade with Skill +10 crit.ev. and total 15% Awareness rates (as example) will only have 18+15%= roughly 20 crit.ev. if someone count like that. No wonder if it become useless skill.:D:

The formula is a triggering formula (same as triggering Astra, etc), not adding to total crit.ev. rates. Just read it again!

Perhaps it will be more challanging if any boss unit with massive skill and luck stats (Revelation routes) has Pavise and this Skill. And this Skill will able to protect any solo-unit with nice skill and luck stat to online pvp.

The triggering rates shouldn't be higher for the sake for balance gameplays as well as you said about Rally Luck itself. As I said before, critical strikes are vital in this game. Or...perhaps you have a better idea/formula for it?

I know it's a triggering formula. That's exactly my issue with it. If it was a base increase to crit evade, then that'd be a great skill. But the fact that it's a proc skill, and the proc is so monstrously low for something that happens so rarely means it'd never be used. At the very least I'd make it so it's just Skill+Luck, no dividing by three, as that's what really kills it. But given it a flat 50% activation rate too would make it more than useful without being broken. I even think making the user completely immune to crits wouldn't be altogether broken.

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2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I know it's a triggering formula. That's exactly my issue with it. If it was a base increase to crit evade, then that'd be a great skill. But the fact that it's a proc skill, and the proc is so monstrously low for something that happens so rarely means it'd never be used. At the very least I'd make it so it's just Skill+Luck, no dividing by three, as that's what really kills it. But given it a flat 50% activation rate too would make it more than useful without being broken. I even think making the user completely immune to crits wouldn't be altogether broken.

That would also work, the hoplon guard exists and that completely nullifies critical hits, so it's not too far a stretch 

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3 hours ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

No the very first attack that targets the unit is auto dodged, all other attacks are treated as normal until the next enemy phase 

but the point of this class is an archer type unit that can fight on or near the front lines, they have 1-2 range, are better at dodging and are built bulkier while sacrificing overall strength as a way to balance them, archers would be stronger but have no enemy phase as well as not having as much survivability. Like how wyverns are meant for the front lines due to how their stats differ from Pegasus knights.

Ok then. The drawback should be removed. But when on the player's turn, bonus hit rate + 15 only work twice, isn't it? When the unit's own turn and re-moving after aided by bard/dancer class...? :D:

 

Then let the Myrmidon or Thief who wield the Wind Sword or Lightning Sword (both have range 1-2) do the works. No need to push a bow-wielders  to go to the front. Same as the balance, Myrmidon and Thief also has low damage output. Archers has harder time when enemy's turn, yes indeed. That's why we can't let the Archers works alone. Look at enemy's Archers! Sometimes hard to hit enemy's Archers because they were guarded by their allies. Archers is not a reckless class like Fighters or Mercenaries, even able to wield crossbow.

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2 hours ago, Dark_Fire27 said:

I never used Myrhh, tbh, so I didn't know a lot about her... Interesting unit and sprite, yes, but was afraid of usurping the dragonstones (only having 50 in all!) of hers to the point where she couldn't be used again, as I didn't know of any means of replacing/repairing them at the time, which I later found out can't happen except by one method, though at the time, didn't know the existence of the 'Enemy control glitch' in FE7 and FE8.

Regardless, your adaptations of my class to modern Fire Emblem standards looks great! Sandcruise is a nice touch, as I never did consider to make them native to the desert, in all honesty, though it's quite a possibility now. Overall, I never would've considered the statistic balances either, with the unit overall being very luck-dependent.

When you mention the character with the rider class in mind is in fact a woman, yes, not incredibly young though, about... late 20s/early 30s, maybe. A commander/general of sorts with high respect, but can be cold and, if she needs to be, rather cruel. Kind of suffers from bipolar personality shifts, which brings out her cruel side at times... Might make her a Warlock with that considered. She's wise and brilliant in forming strategies when not hindered by her secondary, somewhat chaotic side, otherwise, she tries to keep a sense of professionalism when viewed in the public's eyes. But she is on the opposing side... so still a threat either way.

The Knights are treated like, well, the Knights/Generals/Great Knights of the earlier games; high defensive statistics, but slow overall, so armor-slaying equipment helps there alongside cold damage. Warlocks/Riders naturally have high resistance (with the former getting a slight boost in speed, albeit not too grand), but lower than adequate defenses, making magic offenses against them somewhat useless except if one uses cold magic (contrary to still being magic damage).

As I stated, my knowledge of later installments post-GBA is minimal; I haven't gotten myself any new Nintendo consoles since the Wii, and I never got a DS either... so I would be lucky if I got my hands on Radiant Dawn or Path of Radiance for the GC (though considering the prices they're going for on Ebay, it's unlikely). That said, I do have two other units unrelated to the basilisk rider, one of which is not promoteable (with a lot of gimmicks to try and sort out, for it's not a combat-focused unit; think like the bard/dancer in this regard), with the other having two promotion choices. Considering my roleplay to be, I think them to workish; when I have them more or less configured, I'll post them. Overall, thank you again for the update to my class; may or may not need further help in the future!

You're welcome.

Yes, Basilisk's are desert crawlers. That's their original homes since high temperature areas are required to maintain heat in their massive lizard's bodies. In other words, in any games, you can only meet or encounter basilisks on the desert areas.

Ok....the Knight still able to hit by magic, anti-mounts, anti-armor weapons.... and the Warlock one still risky to fight againts, also weak againts anti-mounts weapon, but when a Warrior wielding his/her frozen-axe, the Warrior able to ORKO the Basilisk Warlock. I see...still balanced then.

 

BTW, I still have so many "sibling" classes and their promoted ones since I am also considered as a class as well.

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10 hours ago, illegal knight said:

Duelists are commonly a neutral-allignment land-based class. Privateers and Corsairs are basically mercenaries on the waves, they aren't fully criminals of the seas. Only Buccaneers and Marooneers are fully outlaws of the sea.

BTW, I believed you already read my post. Perhaps you already have their own class Skills in your minds? I'm interested to read it if you allow me. :):

I can't find any info on Duelist as an existing class. I imagine the class as having a somewhat flamboyant appearance, with a plumed hat. Think Zorro and you get the idea.

With Pirate as a Thief promotion, I like the idea of contrasting the Assassin's focus on Skill with a focus on Luck. Something like Despoil or Good Fortune. Even as a base class, I feel like Luck should be one of the Pirate's focuses.

I'm also interested in the concept of a Dual Wielding skill that allows the unit to equip any two of Sword, Axe, or Dagger and attack once with each of them at half damage. The sword and dagger-wielding Duelist or Pirate could learn this skill, and axe-wielding units could also make use of it.

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It may be so lame, but my class "sister" insist me to write her class here. So this is her class:

Lord (female), Staff D. Decent HP, 0 Str, 0 Skill, decent Mag, decent Spd, high Luck, decent Def, high Res. The princess who a student in Clergical Orders in her small kingdom in the coast of the continent. Live peaceful life while aiding people and war-refugees from neighbouring country, until her country has been invaded and her parents has been killed. Her crown-prince older brother and his retainers went missing after the first massive attack which destroy half of the capital city. Skills:

- Rose Charm - initial Skill. The user and all allies in 3 tiles radius around the user gain +5 Avoid and -3 damage taken.

-Lv.1: Determination. The user and all allies in 3 tiles radius around the user gain +5 HP at the beginning of player's turn.

-Lv.10: Pray. The area 3 tiles radius around the user cannot be entered but only can be passed by enemy units for 1 turn. Active: only can used once every 3 turns. Cannot be used when enemy unit still stand around in 3 tiles radius around the user. Cannot used after the user moves.

By scripted storyline, she got her Earth Seal and her Bless Staff (prf, range 1-3, fully restore target's HP as well as cure all the debuffs, the wielder immune all debuffs, inventory-locked/untradable). After Lv.10 or more and used her Earth Seal, she promoted become : Light Lord. Staff B. Max.wpn.prof.: staff S. Skills:

-Lv.5.: Encourage. Restore all allies turns on 1 tiles around the user (4 units total). Active.

-Lv.15.: Aum. Revive a fallen ally unit who died on the same chapter to the next of the user. Active: only can used once per chapter. (In Normal-Difficulty, on Casual-Mode or on Phoenix-Mode, this skill doesn't exist and left the Light Lord without her Lv.15 Skill)

Ok...now...let the all types of Lord being completed. Since this Lord is an healer type, she may leveling faster or will not leveling at all, depending on the player.

Edited by illegal knight

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Okay, so... I sort of fleshed out the next trio of units with a new weapon concept with them, well... sort of. Early firearms. Muskets, flintlocks, early black powder rifles, blunderbusses, and so forth... with the basic class being simply named 'Rifleman'. I will try to put the abilities, based on what illegal knight provided, though I would be grateful for any balances to provide.

The Riflemen work akin to archers, being limited to indirect combat (unless using a pistol/shotgun, like a flintlock/matchlock/blunderbuss), and considering the aspect of early-age firearms, they weren't exactly the most accurate when it came to greater distances, particularly flintlocks and muskets (though the latter was a bit of an improvement even at medium ranges). Pistol-based weapons have the same range as a bow, while muskets have about the same range as a longbow, though the 3rd tile out is only 1/2 the accuracy as the 2nd tile out. Actual rifles improved accuracy, damaging even 4 tiles away, but every tile after the 2nd loses 1/4 the accuracy, and due to how they functioned, required a longer amount of time to make use of attacks (use of a rifle while maintaining balance would be a 1 turn delay to reload before able to attack again, to make up for the greater range). Blunderbusses act as shotguns, having the same effective range as pistols (though lose 3/4 accuracy on the 2nd tile), yet are rather lethal regardless of target, even if they pack armor. Like archers, they are lightly armored, so any unit able to close the gap can deliver effective, even potentially lethal damage. That being said, firearms are effective against lightly armored targets as well as flying adversaries, if they are able to connect, but mostly ineffective against those packing medium or higher-grade armor (unless stated otherwise). The rifleman can promote into one of two classes to give the init coverage, which could act as branching promotions for other classes as well; Musketeer and Commando.

Riflemen - Firearm E, Infantry, Skill:

Level 1 - Hardened. Improve DEF and RES by 1 point, and HP by 3.

Level 10 - Sharpshooter. Improve accuracy and critical hit rate by 5% when using firearms and cannons.

Can promote to Musketeers or Commandos at level 10 or higher with a 'Medal of Honor' promotion item.

Musketeers, I looked to history for inspiration; talented in the use of the musket rifle, they are also very effective sword duelists in single, melee combat. Though lightly armored, they are light-footed and rather evasive, yet also very perceptive in their attacks as well, making it difficult for them to miss, even using firearms (only receiving 50% of the accuracy loss penalty when compared to basic riflemen, but only apply to firearm usage). Adversaries that use lances are going to give Musketeers a hard time if they aren't picked off by the time they are able to close the distance. Certainly the skillful variant when compared to their alternative promotion choice, Commando, they may not have the best defense, if they can avoid the damage entirely, all the better. Some Musketeers can make up effective combat squads alongside their Commando brethren. Musketeers preferred to fight on foot as opposed to on horseback, as it's difficult to effectively use their blades from the back of a mount. Mercenaries/Swordsmen may become Musketeers as well as Riflemen by using a Medal of Honor.

Musketeer - Firearm D, Sword E, Infantry, Skill:

Level 5 - Calm Shot. Use of firearms against foes beyond recommended range suffer only 50% the penalties of the weapon. Additionally, firearms can no longer suffer a 'catastrophic failure' (I'll elaborate at the end).

Level 15 - Skilled Duelist. If the attacker is the only one within 3 spaces of the defending Musketeer, the offender suffers a 15% loss of accuracy to their first attack while, if they can counterattack, the Musketeer gains 15% to their accuracy to their first retaliating strike.

Commandos, on the other hand, as opposed to skill, rely more on brute force to defeat their adversaries, packing axes alongside their rifles while able to handle hits a little better. Though their accuracy is only just slightly improved over a riflemen, they will never compare to a Musketeer in able to deliver the hit reliably. That being said, what they lack in accuracy, is their know how in their adversary's defenses, and can figure out a weak point even in the thickest of armors (delivering damage that ignores 25% of a foe's defense stat when using a firearm). Although Swordsmen and even Musketeers have them trumped when it comes to combat in the accuracy department, their ability to bypassing weak points in armor is vital when it comes to success as well. Commandos, while mounted warriors, they were also a rather commanding force on the battlefield, issuing orders as necessary. Warriors/Axmen may become Commandos as well as Riflemen by using a Medal of Honor.

Commando - Firearm D, Axe E, Cavalry, Skill:

Level 5 - Piercing Shot. Use of a firearm has a chance to deliver damage that ignores 25% of a target's DEF stat. (LUCK÷3)% chances of activating. Additionally, firearms can no longer suffer a 'simple failure' (I'll elaborate at the end).

Level 15 - Commando's Orders. Allied units within 3 spaces of the commando gain +2 to ATK/MAG, and ignore 10% of the target's DEF/RES when calculating damage to foes.

So really, what I have laid out in the promotion choice is accuracy, but fragile (if they can't dodge) vs. improved damage, yet less accurate. Those are the damage-based classes I have in mind; one thing I forgot to mention is all three can make use of cannon emplacements (which work like balistae for the greater range, but have the same mechanic as the rifle, needing a 1-turn delay between attacks; the cannons themselves are rather ineffective against infantry, but cavalry or other mounted units, it'll prove to be effective, and very effective vs. airborne targets if the shot connects). Also, all firearms can never deliver more than a single hit, due to the atrocious reload speed of cleaning the barrel, loading the powder and the ball, then ready to fire (further shown with the 1 turn delay in cannons/rifles), and (including cannon emplacements) have a 15% chance of misfiring, not discharging properly or at all, counting as a 'simple failure', as well as a 1% chance of delivering 25% damage of the user's current HP as well as destroying the weapon (can be upwards to 75% damage of the user's current HP when a cannon fails in this manner), considered as a 'catastrophic failure', mostly as many early firearms needed time to reload effectively, as if rushed, can lead to weapon failures in some form or other.

Like I said, these units are for a kind of a big roleplay I have in mind that I hope still feels like Fire Emblem, with a few technological advances, like black powder and such, however the unreliability (and dangers) of these early firearms makes them a less viable choice vs. bows and other ranged weapons that don't have any risk of giving the user troubles.

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1 hour ago, Lord_Brand said:

I'm also interested in the concept of a Dual Wielding skill that allows the unit to equip any two of Sword, Axe, or Dagger and attack once with each of them at half damage. The sword and dagger-wielding Duelist or Pirate could learn this skill, and axe-wielding units could also make use of it.

Inspired by Cervantes de Leon? :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, Dark_Fire27 said:

Okay, so... I sort of fleshed out the next trio of units with a new weapon concept with them, well... sort of. Early firearms. Muskets, flintlocks, early black powder rifles, blunderbusses, and so forth... with the basic class being simply named 'Rifleman'. I will try to put the abilities, based on what illegal knight provided, though I would be grateful for any balances to provide.

The Riflemen work akin to archers, being limited to indirect combat (unless using a pistol/shotgun, like a flintlock/matchlock/blunderbuss), and considering the aspect of early-age firearms, they weren't exactly the most accurate when it came to greater distances, particularly flintlocks and muskets (though the latter was a bit of an improvement even at medium ranges). Pistol-based weapons have the same range as a bow, while muskets have about the same range as a longbow, though the 3rd tile out is only 1/2 the accuracy as the 2nd tile out. Actual rifles improved accuracy, damaging even 4 tiles away, but every tile after the 2nd loses 1/4 the accuracy, and due to how they functioned, required a longer amount of time to make use of attacks (use of a rifle while maintaining balance would be a 1 turn delay to reload before able to attack again, to make up for the greater range). Blunderbusses act as shotguns, having the same effective range as pistols (though lose 3/4 accuracy on the 2nd tile), yet are rather lethal regardless of target, even if they pack armor. Like archers, they are lightly armored, so any unit able to close the gap can deliver effective, even potentially lethal damage. That being said, firearms are effective against lightly armored targets as well as flying adversaries, if they are able to connect, but mostly ineffective against those packing medium or higher-grade armor (unless stated otherwise). The rifleman can promote into one of two classes to give the init coverage, which could act as branching promotions for other classes as well; Musketeer and Commando.

Riflemen - Firearm E, Infantry, Skill:

Level 1 - Hardened. Improve DEF and RES by 1 point, and HP by 3.

Level 10 - Sharpshooter. Improve accuracy and critical hit rate by 5% when using firearms and cannons.

Can promote to Musketeers or Commandos at level 10 or higher with a 'Medal of Honor' promotion item.

Musketeers, I looked to history for inspiration; talented in the use of the musket rifle, they are also very effective sword duelists in single, melee combat. Though lightly armored, they are light-footed and rather evasive, yet also very perceptive in their attacks as well, making it difficult for them to miss, even using firearms (only receiving 50% of the accuracy loss penalty when compared to basic riflemen, but only apply to firearm usage). Adversaries that use lances are going to give Musketeers a hard time if they aren't picked off by the time they are able to close the distance. Certainly the skillful variant when compared to their alternative promotion choice, Commando, they may not have the best defense, if they can avoid the damage entirely, all the better. Some Musketeers can make up effective combat squads alongside their Commando brethren. Musketeers preferred to fight on foot as opposed to on horseback, as it's difficult to effectively use their blades from the back of a mount. Mercenaries/Swordsmen may become Musketeers as well as Riflemen by using a Medal of Honor.

Musketeer - Firearm D, Sword E, Infantry, Skill:

Level 5 - Calm Shot. Use of firearms against foes beyond recommended range suffer only 50% the penalties of the weapon. Additionally, firearms can no longer suffer a 'catastrophic failure' (I'll elaborate at the end).

Level 15 - Skilled Duelist. If the attacker is the only one within 3 spaces of the defending Musketeer, the offender suffers a 15% loss of accuracy to their first attack while, if they can counterattack, the Musketeer gains 15% to their accuracy to their first retaliating strike.

Commandos, on the other hand, as opposed to skill, rely more on brute force to defeat their adversaries, packing axes alongside their rifles while able to handle hits a little better. Though their accuracy is only just slightly improved over a riflemen, they will never compare to a Musketeer in able to deliver the hit reliably. That being said, what they lack in accuracy, is their know how in their adversary's defenses, and can figure out a weak point even in the thickest of armors (delivering damage that ignores 25% of a foe's defense stat when using a firearm). Although Swordsmen and even Musketeers have them trumped when it comes to combat in the accuracy department, their ability to bypassing weak points in armor is vital when it comes to success as well. Commandos, while mounted warriors, they were also a rather commanding force on the battlefield, issuing orders as necessary. Warriors/Axmen may become Commandos as well as Riflemen by using a Medal of Honor.

Commando - Firearm D, Axe E, Cavalry, Skill:

Level 5 - Piercing Shot. Use of a firearm has a chance to deliver damage that ignores 25% of a target's DEF stat. (LUCK÷3)% chances of activating. Additionally, firearms can no longer suffer a 'simple failure' (I'll elaborate at the end).

Level 15 - Commando's Orders. Allied units within 3 spaces of the commando gain +2 to ATK/MAG, and ignore 10% of the target's DEF/RES when calculating damage to foes.

So really, what I have laid out in the promotion choice is accuracy, but fragile (if they can't dodge) vs. improved damage, yet less accurate. Those are the damage-based classes I have in mind; one thing I forgot to mention is all three can make use of cannon emplacements (which work like balistae for the greater range, but have the same mechanic as the rifle, needing a 1-turn delay between attacks; the cannons themselves are rather ineffective against infantry, but cavalry or other mounted units, it'll prove to be effective, and very effective vs. airborne targets if the shot connects). Also, all firearms can never deliver more than a single hit, due to the atrocious reload speed of cleaning the barrel, loading the powder and the ball, then ready to fire (further shown with the 1 turn delay in cannons/rifles), and (including cannon emplacements) have a 15% chance of misfiring, not discharging properly or at all, counting as a 'simple failure', as well as a 1% chance of delivering 25% damage of the user's current HP as well as destroying the weapon (can be upwards to 75% damage of the user's current HP when a cannon fails in this manner), considered as a 'catastrophic failure', mostly as many early firearms needed time to reload effectively, as if rushed, can lead to weapon failures in some form or other.

Like I said, these units are for a kind of a big roleplay I have in mind that I hope still feels like Fire Emblem, with a few technological advances, like black powder and such, however the unreliability (and dangers) of these early firearms makes them a less viable choice vs. bows and other ranged weapons that don't have any risk of giving the user troubles.

Correcting:

-Rifle > Musket. Rifles was more advanced by Muskets, so Musketeer must be the unpromoted one, no matter who can wield any blade.

-Mounted firearms soldier cannot exist because zero accuracy when shooting while mounted on horseback. It practically impossible. Even tries to training the accuracies while shoot the firearms while mounted on horseback are literally same as learn to fly even we never have wings. That's why in history or even in the world of any games, those soldiers must unmounted first in order to use their guns.

-When item "Medal of Honor exist", now you in the age where pegasus, dragons/wyverns, magic, healing, and even your basilisk are not exist, so you don't have any worry about fliers, and no need to add Mag+2 and Res+2 in the Skills because it didn't exist. As you mentioning, this Class is NOT for the World of Fire Emblem.

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1 hour ago, illegal knight said:

Correcting:

-Rifle > Musket. Rifles was more advanced by Muskets, so Musketeer must be the unpromoted one, no matter who can wield any blade.

-Mounted firearms soldier cannot exist because zero accuracy when shooting while mounted on horseback. It practically impossible. Even tries to training the accuracies while shoot the firearms while mounted on horseback are literally same as learn to fly even we never have wings. That's why in history or even in the world of any games, those soldiers must unmounted first in order to use their guns.

-When item "Medal of Honor exist", now you in the age where pegasus, dragons/wyverns, magic, healing, and even your basilisk are not exist, so you don't have any worry about fliers, and no need to add Mag+2 and Res+2 in the Skills because it didn't exist. As you mentioning, this Class is NOT for the World of Fire Emblem.

Now, just settle down, okay? I kind of figured this would bring up a problem; black powder in with dragons and other mythological beings, and even magic, never work, right? Well, suppose we place a time frame of Fire Emblem's technology (as a whole) being in around 12th-14th century for real life, okay? For us, the introduction of black powder was in the 9th century in china, as a 'fire lance', which was a pole arm with a hollow at the end, which once ignited, would be used to fire off shrapnel, essentially the first cannon/shotgun, as you will. Now, as for the Fire Emblem world(s), for the sake of argument, there are countless continents out there, some of which's technology isn't really expanded on, or even noted to be any different from another. Say there is one continent in Fire Emblem that would the equivalent of south-eastern Asia (and it's not completely improbable, as later Fire Emblem games do have Ninja, spies/militia from Japan, as a class to my understanding), so there, the technological advances were fairly reasonable. Odds are they were able to develop and make use of the firearms more quickly than the others, even somewhat controlled explosives to some degree (though that's another subject I feel we'll discuss later on).

Point is, is it really that unlikely for firearms to generally exist in a fantasy setting like Fire Emblem, even if they are crude/unreliable pieces? I was mostly trying to go for a bit more variety, with plenty of drawbacks to using such weapons in such early development in a time where bows were far more reliable; heck, some backwoods hunter may prefer the guns over the bow, as winds impact their shots less and hit their target quicker. Sources I used for early firearm inspiration to try and place into a Fire Emblem world of my making eventually are here and here. I did mention rifles, yes, but they have a severe drawback because of the grooved internal barrel and ammunition (to help with accuracy), having to be so precise in loading them, muskets were the better option if you wanted to let loose rounds more consistently. Muskets were still favorable over rifles until the American Revolution where the first 'revolvers' were seen. The rifles were fairly advanced, though, so I may take them out entirely...

Also, class names; there's a topic out there that depicts unit names that make no sense, which I'll link to here for you to look at your earliest convenience. As I said, they can be refined on; 'Rifleman' was simply a placeholder; I didn't want to use a simple 'shooter', as that could suggest anything, even a recruit/journeyman-leveled archer, really, and from what I understand, there's also already a 'hunter' class too, so really limited on options. Musketeers were usually some of the finest duelists for their time, and at this time, were considered elite among elite with their rapiers and firearms, even being their own military force in some Europeon countries (France, being one such example). As for 'Medal of Honor', I wanted to give a unique name to the promotion item, instead of a 'Marksman's Seal' or something similar in that regard, which I originally intended. I mean, 'Guiding Ring' and 'Orion's Bolt' are among a few 'Seal' items that aren't exactly 'Seals' by name, but function the same. Mounted firearm shooting was... admittedly a bad idea, I agree, but again, variety was the idea that came to mind, as opposed to making all three infantry.

Personally speaking, I see nothing wrong in combining firearms and units that practice in their use, to be placed in a fantasy realm like Fire Emblem where Wyverns, dragons, pegasi and even magic could exist, (for all the people know, firearms could be considered as a new 'magic' that they have little other means to describe) as is the same as cannons. Improbable, yes, but not completely impossible, if you take in real history to consideration.

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20 minutes ago, Dark_Fire27 said:

Now, just settle down, okay? I kind of figured this would bring up a problem; black powder in with dragons and other mythological beings, and even magic, never work, right? Well, suppose we place a time frame of Fire Emblem's technology (as a whole) being in around 12th-14th century for real life, okay? For us, the introduction of black powder was in the 9th century in china, as a 'fire lance', which was a pole arm with a hollow at the end, which once ignited, would be used to fire off shrapnel, essentially the first cannon/shotgun, as you will. Now, as for the Fire Emblem world(s), for the sake of argument, there are countless continents out there, some of which's technology isn't really expanded on, or even noted to be any different from another. Say there is one continent in Fire Emblem that would the equivalent of south-eastern Asia (and it's not completely improbable, as later Fire Emblem games do have Ninja, spies/militia from Japan, as a class to my understanding), so there, the technological advances were fairly reasonable. Odds are they were able to develop and make use of the firearms more quickly than the others, even somewhat controlled explosives to some degree (though that's another subject I feel we'll discuss later on).

Point is, is it really that unlikely for firearms to generally exist in a fantasy setting like Fire Emblem, even if they are crude/unreliable pieces? I was mostly trying to go for a bit more variety, with plenty of drawbacks to using such weapons in such early development in a time where bows were far more reliable; heck, some backwoods hunter may prefer the guns over the bow, as winds impact their shots less and hit their target quicker. Sources I used for early firearm inspiration to try and place into a Fire Emblem world of my making eventually are here and here. I did mention rifles, yes, but they have a severe drawback because of the grooved internal barrel and ammunition (to help with accuracy), having to be so precise in loading them, muskets were the better option if you wanted to let loose rounds more consistently. Muskets were still favorable over rifles until the American Revolution where the first 'revolvers' were seen. The rifles were fairly advanced, though, so I may take them out entirely...

Also, class names; there's a topic out there that depicts unit names that make no sense, which I'll link to here for you to look at your earliest convenience. As I said, they can be refined on; 'Rifleman' was simply a placeholder; I didn't want to use a simple 'shooter', as that could suggest anything, even a recruit/journeyman-leveled archer, really, and from what I understand, there's also already a 'hunter' class too, so really limited on options. Musketeers were usually some of the finest duelists for their time, and at this time, were considered elite among elite with their rapiers and firearms, even being their own military force in some Europeon countries (France, being one such example). As for 'Medal of Honor', I wanted to give a unique name to the promotion item, instead of a 'Marksman's Seal' or something similar in that regard, which I originally intended. I mean, 'Guiding Ring' and 'Orion's Bolt' are among a few 'Seal' items that aren't exactly 'Seals' by name, but function the same. Mounted firearm shooting was... admittedly a bad idea, I agree, but again, variety was the idea that came to mind, as opposed to making all three infantry.

Personally speaking, I see nothing wrong in combining firearms and units that practice in their use, to be placed in a fantasy realm like Fire Emblem where Wyverns, dragons, pegasi and even magic could exist, (for all the people know, firearms could be considered as a new 'magic' that they have little other means to describe) as is the same as cannons. Improbable, yes, but not completely impossible, if you take in real history to consideration.

It's look like you missed the point, sir. I said I just correcting it in order to match any logic who want to enjoy your story.

1. Rifles are advanced Muskets. So you cannot said the American Civil War soldiers were "older version" of the soldiers from Three Musketeers era.

2. No firearms soldier may shooting from horseback. Because I knew that it a much better story than the absurd and impossible Billy the Kids or Lone Rangers who shot their pisols on horseback. So i mean is: the horse only as mounts. The character is not a cavalier, thats all.

3. If you insist that "d'Artagnan must able to meet Lord Aragorn" then I have no words. Just how can a class which not magical class able to adding Mag+2 and Res+2? If you want to make a parody, then it's okay.

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4 minutes ago, illegal knight said:

It's look like you missed the point, sir. I said I just correcting it in order to match any logic who want to enjoy your story.

1. Rifles are advanced Muskets. So you cannot said the American Civil War soldiers were "older version" of the soldiers from Three Musketeers era.

2. No firearms soldier may shooting from horseback. Because I knew that it a much better story than the absurd and impossible Billy the Kids or Lone Rangers who shot their pisols on horseback. So i mean is: the horse only as mounts. The character is not a cavalier, thats all.

3. If you insist that "d'Artagnan must able to meet Lord Aragorn" then I have no words. Just how can a class which not magical class able to adding Mag+2 and Res+2? If you want to make a parody, then it's okay.

I figured that... Which is why I'm considering removing the rifles due to them being more advanced. I said before, 'Riflemen' is only a placeholder name to describe one that can use firearms until I can come up with a better reference that isn't already taken or has a universal meaning behind it, like 'shooter' being used to describe archers as much as lesser gunners. Might just go with 'Gunner' in that case, as it's fairly universal and has no real connection to semi-modern gunmen.

I agreed that rifles from horseback is a bad idea, though there are real people in history that have fired weapons from horseback, not just characters of fiction like the Lone Ranger. Though they used more modern firearms, rather than simple muskets/matchlocks.

Commandos add +2 to ATK or MAG, depending on the unit in range (if they're a physical fighter, then +2 ATK, it's only +2 MAG for magic users), and it's mostly meant for a morale-booster of sorts, though it's not unlocked until level 15. I mean... it makes no sense to boost the physical attack of a mage, or magical prowess of a swordsman. I'm not boosting RES/DEF, though... Read the skill again...

2 hours ago, illegal knight said:

Level 15 - Commando's Orders. Allied units within 3 spaces of the commando gain +2 to ATK/MAG, and ignore 10% of the target's DEF/RES when calculating damage to foes.

It doesn't add resistance... I understand, my wording was probably vague, and made it so it added to both, not just one or the other with unit profession in mind. Just when it comes to calculating damage for a foe, it ignores 10% of the hit target's DEF/RES stat, depending on the attack used. 'Hardened' is only a passive, and only is used once (not like they get those boosts for every level-up). Though, this isn't meant to be a parody or anything, I'm trying to say that with real history in consideration, very early firearms shouldn't be entirely impossible, with how Fire Emblem's technology appears to be.

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36 minutes ago, Dark_Fire27 said:

I figured that... Which is why I'm considering removing the rifles due to them being more advanced. I said before, 'Riflemen' is only a placeholder name to describe one that can use firearms until I can come up with a better reference that isn't already taken or has a universal meaning behind it, like 'shooter' being used to describe archers as much as lesser gunners. Might just go with 'Gunner' in that case, as it's fairly universal and has no real connection to semi-modern gunmen.

I agreed that rifles from horseback is a bad idea, though there are real people in history that have fired weapons from horseback, not just characters of fiction like the Lone Ranger. Though they used more modern firearms, rather than simple muskets/matchlocks.

Commandos add +2 to ATK or MAG, depending on the unit in range (if they're a physical fighter, then +2 ATK, it's only +2 MAG for magic users), and it's mostly meant for a morale-booster of sorts, though it's not unlocked until level 15. I mean... it makes no sense to boost the physical attack of a mage, or magical prowess of a swordsman. I'm not boosting RES/DEF, though... Read the skill again...

It doesn't add resistance... I understand, my wording was probably vague, and made it so it added to both, not just one or the other with unit profession in mind. Just when it comes to calculating damage for a foe, it ignores 10% of the hit target's DEF/RES stat, depending on the attack used. 'Hardened' is only a passive, and only is used once (not like they get those boosts for every level-up). Though, this isn't meant to be a parody or anything, I'm trying to say that with real history in consideration, very early firearms shouldn't be entirely impossible, with how Fire Emblem's technology appears to be.

Ok then...perhaps i read it innacurated, my bad. But still, if focused on ranged-units, better add "Rally Skill" than str/mag. You may read Skill List as reference.

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8 hours ago, illegal knight said:

Ok then. The drawback should be removed. But when on the player's turn, bonus hit rate + 15 only work twice, isn't it? When the unit's own turn and re-moving after aided by bard/dancer class...? :D:

 

Then let the Myrmidon or Thief who wield the Wind Sword or Lightning Sword (both have range 1-2) do the works. No need to push a bow-wielders  to go to the front. Same as the balance, Myrmidon and Thief also has low damage output. Archers has harder time when enemy's turn, yes indeed. That's why we can't let the Archers works alone. Look at enemy's Archers! Sometimes hard to hit enemy's Archers because they were guarded by their allies. Archers is not a reckless class like Fighters or Mercenaries, even able to wield crossbow.

The hit rate +15 remains active for the entirety of player phase, during enemy phase it is instead avoid + 15 

You have missed the point of the class itself 

the point is to have an archer like unit that is meant to fight on the front lines. Most magical swords nowadays use he users magic rather than strength, making them do pitiful damage since most Myrmidons and assasins have absolutely dreadful magic.

This separates them from traditional archers, since my class would have more bulk and dodge, but be overall weaker to compensate for their reliability 

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10 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

The hit rate +15 remains active for the entirety of player phase, during enemy phase it is instead avoid + 15 

You have missed the point of the class itself 

the point is to have an archer like unit that is meant to fight on the front lines. Most magical swords nowadays use he users magic rather than strength, making them do pitiful damage since most Myrmidons and assasins have absolutely dreadful magic.

This separates them from traditional archers, since my class would have more bulk and dodge, but be overall weaker to compensate for their reliability 

That's the main point, sir!!! Entire player's turn with +15 hit rate for the class itself, only works when the class itself takes it's turn! That's why I pointed that out!!! After the unit finished it's turn entirely, then what's the point with + 15 Hit Rate activate as long as player's turn??? On enemy's turn, it change into + 15 Avoid, am I wrong??? Or perhaps you don't understand about something that you'd already created?

 

Accordingly as you said before about the archer's weak damage output, the Myrmidon and Thief as dodgetankers with magical swords also have same weak damage output. So it doesn't necessary to talk about.

 

And I said it for last time: Archer classes are not for the frontline. They are second line behind the frontliners. Even the versatile Bow Knights must stay behind the Paladins.

 

As the player, I never said about the Skills are right or wrong. But if your class exist, believe me, perhaps only you push the class to the front line, while other player will reclassing the character with the class into other class. Perhaps I'll use the Steady Hand Skills for my ArmorKnight-based Great Knight.

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