We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

[Refa]

Who are the ~p o p u l a r  l y n c h  c a n d i d a t e s~ again?  When's deadline?  I know I don't want to lynch Athena, but I don't remember anyone else getting cased a bunch.

[Bibbon]

I believe Athena is shaping up to be a mislynch. They just come off as a new-ish sort of player. Does anyone know how much experience they have playing? I mean, Mafia overall, outside of this site actually. 

[Fable]

Yeah Athena seems like a bad lynch. He's more substantive than the other wagons and if he went back to push satsuma as a wolf after I said "oh hey he could totally keep pushing there as wolf if he wanted to" that would be kinda lol tier. Kinda feel like weapons village too but can't explain it, I think the low energy is more "meh I don't wanna do stuff but I should" rather than frozen wolf but it's just a hunch. 

[Fable]

Oh also @Bibbon I wanted to ask how you're V reading me already off of nothing. Don't get me wrong you're probably the best person I know in terms of being able to read me or tied for the best but I don't know how you got there that fast even with that in mind when I haven't done anything that AI (At least I don't think I have? Maybe I would have tried to fake reads by now idk). 

[Refa]

16 minutes ago, Bibbon said:

I believe Athena is shaping up to be a mislynch. They just come off as a new-ish sort of player. Does anyone know how much experience they have playing? I mean, Mafia overall, outside of this site actually. 

On 3/16/2018 at 12:43 AM, athena_57 said:

Greetings everyone. Just a heads-up, though I have played mafia-type games before, I have never done so on a forum and am therefore not familiar with part of its terminology. If you would be so kind as to specify what some abbreviations mean the first time you use them, that would be greatly appreciated.

The last game.

[Athena_57]

4 hours ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

What I want to know is @athena_57, how would you describe the differences between your scum and town metas?

I mean, this is my second game of forum mafia, so can you really speak of meta? I know I noticed myself playing vastly differently as scum last game than I play as scum in the IRL mafia games I'm accustomed to so... TBH I don't think there's too big of a difference as even as townie I find myself thinking about how I should phrase things and as scum I targeted people I'd target as town as well. Maybe there's some tonal differences and stuff, but that's sort of tough to judge about yourself.

2 hours ago, Bibbon said:

No, I never said that. Funny you would infer so from my post. 

Is this a joke? You literally named a bunch of people and said they were town and then use the word "weird" to describe BBM.

2 hours ago, Bibbon said:

I'm not quite sure if I should believe this or not. If I do decide to believe it, then it would clear you as town... 

Why does this clear him as town? Because he can't be targeted at night or because he claimed? Cause the exact same thing happened last game where a scum ascetic claimed in the middle of day 1.

1 hour ago, Refa said:

Who are the ~p o p u l a r  l y n c h  c a n d i d a t e s~ again?  When's deadline?  I know I don't want to lynch Athena, but I don't remember anyone else getting cased a bunch.

I believe Satsuma, zeus and Bart are the ones with 3 or more votes on them. Kirsche has two. Deadline is in about 28 hours.

1 hour ago, Bibbon said:

I believe Athena is shaping up to be a mislynch. They just come off as a new-ish sort of player. Does anyone know how much experience they have playing? I mean, Mafia overall, outside of this site actually. 

One game of forum mafia.
Minor experience of TownofSalem, (online, phases of about a minute), about a week till I got sick of the afwul community.
Mostly experience with tabletop with my cousins, werewolves of millers hollow mostly.

 

Other thoughts:

Agree Marth's entrance is mediocre and his "forgot to vote, see you later!"-post was really bad imo.
Waiting on a game stance from Bibbon, but I disliked her questions.

Wanted to reiterate I still do not agree with the cases on weapons, I just think scum wouldn't behave so weird. I don't know him though, anyone with more experience w/ regards to his meta capable of telling me whether this is something you'd see him doing as scum?

[Refa]

Out of those, I'd probably do Bartozio > Zeus > Satsuma > Kirsche.  These all seem too easy though (except for Kirsche, but that's the one I feel the worst about!), I dunno.

[Bartozio]

8 hours ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

What made you go back and read your role pm? This is the most suspicious thing that’s happened so far imo.

##Vote: Bartozio

Because I'm the type to rethink and reread things about a million times over. Why do you feel me rereading my role pm is more suspicious then someone jumping through all kinds of hoops to avoid giving reads? Why is what I did scummy as opposed to just weird to you?

@Shin Shinori: Why does my vote on SoySoy seem hypocrytical? I'm voting him because he's trying to argue it's normal for him to not have reads nstead of trying to obtain them. When did I do something even remotely similar?
Also, I didn't really use Athena's quote as an explanation, since I still explained why in my own words and more dept afterwards.

Currently townreading Eclipse and Walrein

Walrein feels a lot more engaged with the thread then in the cuphead game, to the point I doubts he's improved his scumgame this much. Eclipse has been actively getting people to talk and is participating in the conversation a lot. I have trouble seeing her current play come from scum.

leaning town on Refa, Junk, Via, BBM, Eurykins

More based on gut, but all of them seem to be trying to get reads and nothing they've done really strikes me as scummy.

null on Athena.

Not a big fan of any of these people who are trying to get out of giving opinions (Fable, Zeus, SoySoy), but SoySoy strikes me as the worst offender for reasons I mentioned earlier. Fables latest posts seem to at least try to form opinions, which is good.

I'm also townleaning on Shinori, even though I don't like his case on me. His other content is pretty good and I can see this being a missinterpretation of my posts. I'll have to reread Weapons and Kirsche for a bit.

These are my opinions until page 9, because I had already written this post but then my internet died and I had to leave for work. Gonna catch up now.

[Iris]

Day 1.7 - Votals
Polydeuces + SatsumaFSoySoy (4): Bartozio, Eurykins, athena_57, Refa
Bartozio (3): Anime27Arts, WeaponsofMassConstruction, Shinori
zeus112 (3): vi-astra, eclipse
Zkirsche (2): Junk, Nightmare
BBM (1): Zkirsche
Shinori (1): Elieson
Fable (1): Jaybee
Magnificence Incarnate (1): Walrein
WeaponsofMassConstruction (1): BBM

Not Voting: Bibbon, Eärendil, Fable,  Magnificence Incarnate, Polydeuces + SatsumaFSoySoy, zeus_112

You have ~30 hours left in the day. With 22 alive, it takes 8 to lynch and 15 to hammer.

Anime27Arts and Elieson have been prodded.

[Jaybee]

##Unvote

[Athena_57]

13 minutes ago, Jaybee said:

##Unvote

....

Good content man

[Fable]

Is there a good way to ISO someone on here?

[Jaybee]

cool beans i lost my content refreshing the page ty sf

 

I don't really know how to feel wrt the way eclipse is playing, which is targeting people for playing poorly (Zeus, Satsuma, Fable's first post) instead of targeting people for being scummy. I recall you saying earlier that you were null/town on most of the active players - is that something that's changed? I'm townreading clipsey but I wanna know how you feel about the more active players. || Also I agree with Via that this line of attack has a different vibe than Via's own vote on Zeus - I'd sheep Via's case tbh.

 

I didn't have issues with Bart's rereading of his role PM but what I don't like is how overly defensive he was in his last post. I vaguely? recall? him doing this before? but it reads like scared scum.

 

kirsche, do you have any reads on anyone aside from BBM? Normally I dislike this level of tunneling but it's kirsche so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

same for satsuma - anything on anyone aside from Athena? I know you said you needed more time but if there wasn't enough content then surely there is now.

 

I'm not understanding Refa's defense of Fable - when you say "scum won't ask who to sheep in-thread" (paraphrased). can you elaborate for a dumb 8yo pls

 

fine with via and walrein too

 

I don't like weapons, this post feels very washy over Athena, Bart & Kirsche, using a lot of words and giving both justifications for a null read.

 

might have more on Bibbon and some other people but it's 1:32am so i might just go and sleep, ##Vote: Bart because I think we'll get more from more pressure on him than a zeus vote.

[Zkirsche]

I feel like Bibbon did more than weapons with his first post as he at least expressed some unique ideas (e.g. fable being town) even if he lacked the reasons. Pressuring him for reasons is fine though (and he should give them @Bibbon). Other than this your reads are very agreeable and the tone of your posts since your first few pages read town, like how you paused before switching to weapons and the progression of weapons as a lynch candidate in your mind. My intial interpretation of your content was such:

Spoiler

He votes Rein because he needed a vote down on someone (Self conscious about needing a vote is bad because a lot of people find it scummy and point it out, especially in RVS). He asks why Via isn't voting someone BBM perceived Via thought was scummy. This is a commonly applied scummy move yet so either BBM is criticising Via while not voting him, or has no opinion on Via and is just asking a question for the sake of asking questions, something he admitted to later on. Yes asking questions is improtant for moving on the game state but imo the way he acted there shows the kind of half-hearted attempt at it that scum usually pulls rather than town coming up with contrived reasons to suspect someone. The logic for this is mostly gut and tone so we'll have to agree to disagree I suppose Refa, and I do think that is was likely a misinterpretation on my part at this moment.

I would obviously love to see what you think of weapons' recent post though as it is quite good and a lot less buzzwordy in regardes to people being "confrontational". Right now he's very dismissive of who would otherwise be easy mislynches, just look at that Satsuma wagon. The Bartozio read also feels like a natural town retraction of their opinion. he may have made some initial mistakes with the read but his level of interest in inquiring about them still is good. Especially as Bart disappeared and didn't really have memorable content to begin with.

##Unvote

What is really annoying is how little people seem to want to comment/draw from it. Shinori just dismissed it and Walrein/Nightmare didn't even comment on it or the resulting cases on me. They don't talk about about what they agree/disagree with and why in terms of logic or whatever. Look at Refa, he has said what he thinks of my interpretation, what his interpretation is (the type of townie he thinks BBM is) and his thoughts on me as a result of that interpretation. That is a very townie analysis. By not even attempting any kind of interaction with that you're avoiding scumhutning/analysis so I want to ask @Shinori @Nightmare in particular why the above interpretation on BBM's actions in the early game is not agreeable, if my case comes from scum and why. Then if you woudl be so kind as to do the same for the cases on me that would be fantastic. Walrein is defo town so it's not enough to convict someone alone but it's annoying.

The worst offender is Nightmare who is voting me on gut without making these comments. He has said that he doesn't agree with my case (or isn't convinced at least) but doesn't explain why or why that means I'm scum. He is also voting me only after being prodded which I don't appreciate. Is anyone else scum? Anything on me more than just gut?

Moving on the person I actually want to vote most right now is

##Vote: Junko

Marth's analysis of Junko's waffly wording is good and I really don't like the way he has sat on me all phase as I'm basically his only read. See his post on page 10, what's there other than me? Is eclipse scummy for those things? Is BBM scummy for those things? @Junk what are your thoughts on Bartozio? On Satsuma? On Refa? On Bibbon? Junko has committed to very little this phase despite making the posts and apparently the reading for otherwise.

4 hours ago, Bibbon said:

 "Everyone looks towny" is such an innocent thing to say, right? But if you start approaching the game from that perspective, I don't see how it benefits town. Maybe I'm thinking too much into it, but it's something that definitely sticks out to me.  

There was recently a game where I townread basically everyone and narrowed scum down to just a couple of options before it ended with the main lynch candidates being me/this person. There is no reason not to share townreads, not to explain them, not to discuss about them. It's just more stuff to go on in the end.

Speaking of do you have any new reads on anyone? Who should we lynch? There's like 24 hours left to determine that.

13 hours ago, Fable said:

Someone tell me who to sheep. 

Would scum make this post? @Walrein is this Fable so brazen as scum?

Junko > Nightmare >>> BBM right now.

I don't really like the main lynch options right now. Didn't really see anythign scummy in Athena's posts or in Satsuma's so maybe I have to analyse cases a bit more. I think Athena's overreacting from their back and forth but not sure about the otehrs. That's the next thing I have to focus on because I'm out of effort.

[Bartozio]

2 minutes ago, Fable said:

Is there a good way to ISO someone on here?

Someone made a script for that a while ago:

I personally have no experience with using it though.

A lot of people also don't post outside of mafia games, so looking through their content often works.

[Zkirsche]

Mmmmmm actually I would lynch Bibbon over BBM after his recent "attempts" at staying up to date.

[Fable]

Oh I'm super brazen as a wolf but in a aggressively push mislynches for free wins kinda way. 

[Bluedoom]

Alright, more stuff:

-I didn't feel like BBM's votes or actions in this game were passive and full of questions and even so I don't think they're necessarily scummy. But one thing that pinged me was the Bibbon vote over Weapons because it really felt lazy since that vote wasn't pushing the game anywhere. Not interested in pushing here now though, just thought this was worth a mention.

-I don't feel like Fable's passiveness is coming from scum but this is more gut, I feel like a lot of town players from other sites struggle to adjust to meta but IMO I need this: @Fable where do you see scum intent coming from and why? I think its best for you to leave out any hangups with your lack of meta knowledge and use your own intuition and discretion.

-I don't get the kirsche case, honestly yeah its logically sound to say that kirsche pulled BBM's questions out of context but upon further questioning I feel like kirsche's reasoning was good, also it was at RVS and its reasonable to push anything that you find suspicious for information on the player, I actually liked his defence and I expect scum!kirsche to tunnel on BBM here instead of looking at other people like Shinori/Zeus/Walrein/Soysoy.

-I feel like Bartozio has to be tonally town here with his posts even if I don't like the soysoy vote, I think the reasoning and pressuring of Soysoy here is good, no problems here. Thought is defence post against Shinori's case on him was solid, 

-eclipse is town on meta lol.

-I tried reading soysoy and I got a null, I'm about to fall over and sleep ngl. 

 

People I need to read (or maybe again): Soysoy, Refa, Eury, Shinori, probably some inactives.

[Bluedoom]

4 hours ago, Refa said:

 

@Magnificence Incarnate Marth, let's make some interactions baby.  What makes Athena come across as detached to you?  I don't get that impression from his read at all.  I know I townread him last game...where he was scum...but I'm legitimately not bothered by him outside of his ED1 play.  Everyone else is okay w/lynching the guy and here I am thinking "what did he do wrong?".  I think your case on Junk is good, but a genuine question: Do you think that's something he wouldn't do as town, or do less of?  Junk is a very waffly town player, which is why it didn't ping me anyways.

I don't think Marth's post is indicative of scumminess because it read as unfinished to me and turns out it was unfinished.  Maybe it's lazy scum but in my experience from talking to Marth during games, he's pretty lazy as both alignments unless motivated.  I want to at least give him a chance here.

 

Athena reads detached in the sense that he waits for other people to make a case and hops on, if he sees the flow of the game changing he unvotes, its very opportunistic. Well ok detached might be the wrong word here but my feeling from Athena in the last game(and this game) is that he is seemingly less involved in gamesolving. Last game I gave him the newbie pass but this game I won't so yeah, there's a valid case here I feel.

 

I think he'd not just tunnel kirsche as town and actually try pushing his intuition to other players, I feel like the way he is so waffly about his eclipse read is very weird coming from town, same with how he asks BBM questions that seemingly aren't going anywhere. In his last post his argument is basically about disagreeing with the way kirsche saw BBM's actions which is NAI; he doesn't show why kirsche's vote has scum intent here so I'm feeling that the case has dishonest intentions here. I feel like in his post on page 10 he had better players to vote than kirsche but he stuck his vote on kirsche anyway which looks v bad IMO, the post kind of feels like content for the sake of content to pass by. 

[Bluedoom]

Zeus has a strong newbscum tell IMO but I'll go with this: ##Vote: Junko

 

Zeus will probably show his true colours as the day advances, I'd rather push this slot for now. Junko is a better vote than athena IMO though.

[Bluedoom]

Fuck its almost midnight.

Also @Bibbon niiiiiiiiiiiiiiice you live in a state next to mine, first time I'm meeting a mafia player who lives close to where I live.

[Bibbon]

24 minutes ago, Magnificence Incarnate said:

Fuck its almost midnight.

Also @Bibbon niiiiiiiiiiiiiiice you live in a state next to mine, first time I'm meeting a mafia player who lives close to where I live.

Holy shit where are you from? 

[zeus_112]

okay, it may be a bit hypocrtitical, but: ##Vote: Fable

I'm not sure abaut satsuma and bartiozo being town, but they made up for it in their last posts

[Bibbon]

All the reasons to push Athena is bad. Athena has proven to be a player with less experience. Things like defensiveness are not NAI. Neither is being opportunistic. I'm a fairly opportunistic player, for example, as either alignment. 

I'm not giving them a 100% town clear card, but based on experience level and what I've seen so far, I would be very surprised if Athena were scum in this game. There's definitely scum on this wagon. 

[Athena_57]

2 minutes ago, zeus_112 said:

okay, it may be a bit hypocrtitical, but: ##Vote: Fable

I'm not sure abaut satsuma and bartiozo being town, but they made up for it in their last posts

Mind explaining why Fable? I mean I can guess, but I'd like to hear you explain it.

Why do you feel they were scummy earlier, and what was good about their recent stuff?