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We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER


Iris
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3 minutes ago, Refa said:

I'm really not motivated at all.  YO NIGHTMARE-SAMA, you were entirely right about me seeming distant because I am.

See everyone, my read was correct, so you should all sheep me from now on.

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More generally with eclipse, I do think one of the people who is pressuring others to contribute is scum trying to build towncred, but actually that's what we should be doing, so I don't even want to case anyone for it.

Just now, Refa said:

Also FTR, Weapons isn't scummy because he's being unhelpful (again, that's null, he could just choose not to post as scum), but moreso his lack of activity earlier especially considering he did eventually produce reads.  You can't create that many reads out of thin air, they had to previously exist and if so...why didn't he post them before?  My thoughts here are scrambled so I don't know if I'm getting this across very well, but this is actually the first read I feel confident in.

cause i'm tired yo

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I'm tired too.  Besides answering my case, could you explain why you posted all of your thoughts at once but didn't post them earlier as you were reading the thread?

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##Unvote

Huh, so I still have my vote. Why did it disappear earlier then?

Only Athena, who I mentioned, has stood out to me so far. I think the way he has been posting is more like he wants to appear Town, but draw minimal conflict and attention to himself. It's something I'm paying attention to, but I can't tell if they're scum or not just from that.

I'm think Fable was just trolling with his one-liner.

5 hours ago, Eurykins said:

SoySoy is taking too much time posting things that don't offer us anything. No thoughts, no reads, no votes. It's distracting, and I know I have a bad time getting stuck on "Bad gameplay" vs. Scummy gameplay, but for all the posts that this slot has made... zero content? Test vote on Refa (what made you choose Refa of all people, also?) to test some voting thing? Give us something to actually chew on? 

The test vote was because my vote somehow wasn't counted in "Not Voting" in one of the vote tallies, even though I hadn't placed one yet. Someone suggested that I test it out, so I did.

7 minutes ago, Refa said:

@SatsumaFSoysoy Why aren't you voting Athena then despite having good reason too FYPOV?

I usually like to hear more and have more than one reason before I cast a vote, unless it's just to lynch. I don't think I have enough information to do so.

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@Zkirsche I never got the impression that BBM had via as a read. It seemed like to me that he was asking via some questions wheras i'm 99% sure via explicitly said something about whatever walrein said being "antitown" or something to that effect and i'll sheep BBM's logic that asking questions is better than doing nothing especially when it's earlygame. 

@eclipseEclipse kinda bothers me although it may be i'm taking her words too literally. I think her logic on Athena is okay although imo I could see why you wouldn't want to be overly aggressive outside of pushing reads so as to not make people mad. Why does the "disconnect" make you think Athena is scummy? You mention that it's a soft tell but what exactly makes this scummy? Anyway it's your other reads that seem to bother me. Lynching someone for their attitude makes no sense (although i'm not sure if you were literal there) and although you only said it was a slight scumtell how does refa missing the point strike you as slightly scummy?

@BBM why didn't you vote weapons unless i missed something when you said he was scummy?

Most of weapons just comes off as lazy to me. Only thing that strikes me as weird is his bartozio vote. IDK why him deciding to read his role pm again makes him vote worthy.

I'll post my thoughts on other players after bed. I skimmed a lot of people's posts and the above is what stood out to me immediately. Still keeping my vote on kirsche because it seems weird to me that bbm asking via some questions means he had a read on via.

 

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okay sorry for that. life got in the way. let me get through everything bits at a time.

first responding to things directed at me:

Quote

Was this in response to me?  Because I wasn't ITP hunting nor do I intend to.  You also know my stance on the subject of speculating ITPs that may or may not exist and how I feel it's completely worthless.  Nor did I even state anything WRT making you feel less confident in your reads?

Like really when do I ever ITP hunt?  The fuck.

(shinori)
the way i read it at first it came off that way, because at the time whether or not the hydra slot might be ITP wasn't relevant--the subject was specifically whether or not it was town or scum. so for you to come out of nowhere "hey don't forget it could be ITP" seemed dissonant especially for you, and as you say you think ITP speculating is pointless so it was like, huh. but i read the rest of your response to me and it made sense. you did agree with me after the fact, and that part of your post i admittedly misinterpreted.; i just didn't 100% understand why you brought it up in the first place is all. sorry about that.

as for eclipse meta WRT walrein asking me about it. i'm admittedly not the best at reading meta in general but for what we had currently and have now i remember town!eclipse enthusiastic and vaguer about her role and reaction tests and she's fit that to a T this game so far so that's why my first impression of her i wasn't bothered.

now for actual content

so Fable after the fact I'm like all right. to answer his question though (even though eclipse already answered it), i think it's scummy when people complain about people not contributing what they want, but then they don't put in the effort to contribute what they want. it reads as scum saying something for the sake of it so they can take credit for saying it without putting effort into scumhunting themselves. oftentimes scum can say mechanic related stuff related to rolespec or whatever while avoiding posting reads/actually discussing the players and they can coast that way. also it's antitown to blatantly refuse to post content.

Walrein's vote on athena was OK. I think people who are reading athena as scum are valid cuz reading through I was kinda reading them as scum too. this quote of theirs in particular--"Is it really bad though? I'm not the only one with a vote on an inactive."--is a Classic Scumtell(tm), the "but what about the other guy" as an easy way to deflect heat off them in an argument with minimal effort. I see scum and especially new scum do it all the time. I know athena isn't exactly new but my point still stands.
with the whole "athena knows what he did wrong last game and would be more self-conscious about it" argument, after my stint w/ walrein and then satsuma's comment on meta I'm kinda compelled to try and rely less on that and more on what I'm seeing at the moment. I don't remember anything huge about athena's cumplay last game anyway because that was not a game I paid huge attention to (I was emotionally not well) and I PoE'd more than I scumhunted.

admittedly though zeus asking athena to unvote them "i'm not inactive so you can unvote me now" was scummy. zeus>fable I think, on the scale of scumreads.

HOWEVER. I'm actually not sure after reading BBM again how I feel about him. I disregarded his posts afterwards because I was tired and didn't really read them, because it's true he's playing a lot more passively than usual (sorry! sorry! this is the only meta thing I have on him I swear!) but I agree it does seem like he asks more questions than he scumhunts and prodding me for my reads & why I didn't have a Real Vote on anyone yet was like a Vague Example of "what about the other guy" since he was also in the same boat I was, stuck on an RVS vote (that he even reverted back to after a Real Content Vote which I also found incredibly weird.) his post afterwards explaining how he was confused why I had people I was uncomfortable with is valid, except that I had already stated at least once that I wasn't voting anyone because nothing had convinced me yet. I had even specifically stated, "hey, I did feel uncomfortable on walrein but I don't feel like voting them anymore, and I'm not convinced enough on BBM either." him asking me it again like, yeah, I get asking questions for the sake of RVS but you asked me for content I already posted so your questions read to me like posting filler than trying to get us out of RVS. IDK.

##vote: zeus

I think zeus is scum tho. I don't care how inactive they've been. I'm trying to care less about that.

I'm not feeling scum on satsuma btw.

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god sorry for the longass post. there was a lot I waanted to say that at this point since I'm behind I can't just break it down into smaller posts cuz that would be terrible.

also not sure how I feel about weapons either. his shitting around is null to me. his hanging around and posting stuff like "someone do something scummy I'm townreading everyone" didn't feel alignment-indicative to me

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I need some time to decide what I think about the rest of the players--that took me about two hours and I need a break. I'm working on my read on kirsche which is a bunch more of "I have no idea" right now. I'm thinking kirsche VS bbm might be different alignments however--it's giving me that vibe.

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for future reference: my pronouns are they/them (no worries, those of you who didn't realize this)

really like refa's read on weapons

via/eclipse solidifying my townreads on them

nate's intro post is really thin and i haven't decided if it's disinterested town after a prod or disinterested scum in general. i do get decent tonal vibes from his "sheep me" post

agree that refa feels more detached from usual but like... i really like his reads. if he isn't town i'll be sad :(

having trouble getting a bead on junko/kirsche/shinori. hopefully will get to directly interact with them at some point

zeus has balls if he's mafia. athena's posting got... better? maybe? i need to reread it. weapons could be scum (definitely sheeping refa's read here lmao)

think i'm still hovering around a very weak townlean on bbm. another slot i need to reread.

fable read hasn't changed since my last post

everyone else needs to post more

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9 hours ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

You keep me in the back of your head, sure, but you were still quite quick to retreat and take off your pressure and the vote, even though you said yourself that you were unsatisfied. It's going to look like I'm copying Shinori since they posted before I could while I was pecking at this between breaks, but to me that means you either didn't have much of a case to begin with, or you don't want to get into too much conflict. The former would make me question why you thought a double pressure vote was necessary, but it could be that votes on SF aren't as heavy as where I used to play. The latter would make me think you have something important to hide.

I just found it strange that you say you dislike uncertain players, despite all of us playing a game uncertainty. I am more passive than you though, yes, especially on a first day with no information yet besides the set-up.

I am making a guess on your mentality based on your tone, and my guess was that you want to quickly fit in. Bartozio just happened to be the other guy who voted me, and I'm not accusing you two of being buddies. Though, you don't actually have to agree with him on everything for me to think you're buddies, if I did think so.

 

No I didn't have much of a case, that's true. But it was the best case I had at the time and thus the one I pursued. I do not consider a double pressure vote to be a big deal at all, especially in a 22 player game, so I don't follow your logic there.

I didn't mean I disliked uncertain players, I dislike players who hide behind their uncertainty.

I didn't think you were accusing us of being buddies, I felt you were accusing me of piggybacking Bartozio's case, in which case my argument stands.

How many players are going to have to tell you D1 isn't just about meta until you start doing stuff? Even if it doesn't help you, it helps others. It feels weird placing my vote back here, but I think your later posts have been pretty bad as well. I find it pretty interesting you're attacking me for avoiding confrontation whilst refusing to place a vote yourself.

##Vote: SatsumaFSoySoy

I'm liking Eclipse's stuff so far. It seems 'honest' scumhunting.
I agree with the notion Refa seems like detached town.
Weapons weird behavior is throwing me off, but I think it's NAI, perhaps even weird enough to make it townish.

I approve of the case on Bartozio, he's been acting pretty weird, but I don't see any merit in joining the wagon at this point.


Going to defend Zeus here for a sec, I can confirm saying stuff like 'I'm stupid' to people he doesn't know, sitting back and playing passively and a tendency to laziness are all things I expect him to do whether he's town or scum. Consider this a meta-read saying his behaviour is NAI. It is however extremely annoying @zeus_112, and I would urge you to become more productive.

In similar fashion, all the other little-posters, so Fable, nightmare, JB etc. are null to me, with JB being slightly worse due to his hypocritical post about non-activity.

Satsuma > Bartozio > JB for me atm.

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does this replace bbm's cum meta???

I'm mainly just waiting for bibbon to respond first. after weapons's second jokepost after I criticized him, I legit typed out a vote and then deleted it bc WIFOM and I thought I might be overreacting to him being dumb so I decided to wait a little bit to see if I still found it suspicious and yeah i still do. it's super anti-town to make multiple jokeposts like that in that situation. and I agree with Refa's assessment that it doesn't make sense for him to have had those reads and not post them and just be dicking around and not trying to get anywhere. weapons's excuse is pretty unimpressive.

@via- you keep saying that you said you didn't feel comfortable with voting me/walrein before I first asked you the question, but I read those early pages again and I swear I still can't find you saying that until I asked you. i don't really care about this as being relevant to your alignment I just don't understand which posts of yours you're referring to. can you quote the post where you said this?

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22 hours ago, Vi-astra said:

i haven't really seen a reason to vote anyone yet that convinces me; at first i was set to vote walrein, but that was a first-impression gutread and i feel a bit better now. eclipse is playing to her town meta from what i can tell. bbm is null. junko is uh, eh, i think bbm's point on junko is fair but i'm not feeling anything yet

this was the post i'm referring to @ bbm

 

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i think maybe what might have been confusing was when i stated later i agreed with eclipse's scum(?)read on you and that looked like i should have voted you after that but really i just still wasn't convinced despite that

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yeah i noticed i'm having issues with my s and my t keys sticking again so that's nice i guess.

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cumplay is a funnier typo imo

at any rate i'm not reading zeus scum cuz he said he was stupid or whatever in regards to playing the game or something but because that like "hey unvote me now pls" was reactionary and they're convinced they should be in the clear just for being active

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Ok I tried skimming because there are too many people to keep track of but these are my thoughts:

- I agree with via that zeus asking athena to unvote him for being active looks very bad and sounds more likely to come from newb scum.

-I think athena's reasons for votes are p bad actually and they don't push the gamestate in any direction either, agree with Walrein's push on athena, I think the soysoy vote looks bad as its more or less a sheep on to a person who already is getting flak from people. His play currently checks out with his play last game IMO, people just PoE'd him last game but he was very passive last game too.

-Junko's initial kirsche case is ok but he has this thing going where he seems to say things that could discredit his case.


" I also don't see what's wrong with asking questions when you have nothing else to go off of. Although that's more personal opinion I suppose but the above point still stands."- page 5

"Eclipse kinda bothers me although it may be i'm taking her words too literally. "-page 10

"why didn't you vote weapons unless i missed something when you said he was scummy?"-page 10

In the spoiler is a pattern that I'm seeing, it feels off for town to be saying such things when they're developing their reads in a particular direction, like why would you post that you're doubting yourself if you're confident in pushing your read somewhere? Feels more likely to come from scum wanting to be detached. Overall I don't feel like the kirsche case is stellar even if it is logically sound because I'm not feeling scum intent from kirsche's vote.

-Wally is probably town; they're playing vastly different from their anonydraft scumplay; I think they look v good with their pushes and reads.

-Weapons I didn't get any scum vibes from him except for one of his posts where he is kinda wishywashy on his eclipse/JB reads, I kinda don't want to push him just because of that because the logic behind most of his reads checks out IMO, also yeah he is kinda lazy but he was lazy in the last game and wishywahsy too, was town there.

 

-Not feeling strongly about a Bibbon vote; she's new and also lives in the same timezone as I do so it'll be much more difficult to catch up with the discussion that is going on. Her content itself is not stellar but there's nothing that suggests her play coming from scum imo. List post kinda bad but I'd want to see her future content before developing a read.

 

God fucking dammit there are too many players in this game.

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Day 1.5 - Votals
athena_57
(3): Walrein, eclipse
Bartozio (3): Anime27Arts, WeaponsofMassConstruction, Shinori
Polydeuces + SatsumaFSoySoy (3): Bartozio, Eurykins, athena_57
Zkirsche (2): Junk, Nightmare
BBM (1): Zkirsche
Bibbon(1): BBM
Shinori (1): Elieson
Fable (1): Jaybee
Weapons (1): Refa
zeus112 (1): vi-astra

Not Voting: Bibbon, EÀrendil, Fable,  Magnificence Incarnate, Polydeuces + SatsumaFSoySoy, zeus_112

You have ~36 hours left in the day.  With 22 alive, it takes 8 to lynch and 15 to hammer.

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3 hours ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

It is a highly calculated non-deterministic branching paths phenomena reaction test, the effects of which will only grow stronger as the days cycle, finally coming to fruition right in the middle of D7 LYLO, if my computer can be believed.

So in other words, you solved the traveling salesman problem.

3 hours ago, Refa said:

@eclipse I don't remember ever commenting on your BBM vote, just Kirsche's?  Maybe I forgot something.

But my vote was twice as important as his. :(:

3 hours ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Huh, so I still have my vote. Why did it disappear earlier then?

Now I'm getting uneasy.

See, the vote thing was way back when, and if it really was an issue, you could ask this in your role PM.  Meanwhile, you're not using your vote, so why does it matter?

Why shouldn't you be lynched today?

2 hours ago, Junk said:

 

@eclipseEclipse kinda bothers me although it may be i'm taking her words too literally. I think her logic on Athena is okay although imo I could see why you wouldn't want to be overly aggressive outside of pushing reads so as to not make people mad. Why does the "disconnect" make you think Athena is scummy? You mention that it's a soft tell but what exactly makes this scummy? Anyway it's your other reads that seem to bother me. Lynching someone for their attitude makes no sense (although i'm not sure if you were literal there) and although you only said it was a slight scumtell how does refa missing the point strike you as slightly scummy?

Alright, grab some popcorn and get comfy, because I have no idea how you reached half of those things.

The tonal thing has nothing to do with not getting people mad.  Think outside of this game, about a person (let's call 'em Kim) who's really shy and quiet IRL, but turns into a raging troll online.  Someone who knows both sides of Kim would most likely conclude that Kim has some interpersonal issues.  Now, instead of this person, we have a mafia player, who's really aggressive on their case, and passive otherwise.  Chances are, something is going on, whether it be a lack of confidence, something that doesn't even pertain to the game, or someone who's desperately trying to justify a bullshit case on low-hanging fruit.  Lack of confidence is null, things not in the game are also null, and bullshit cases are scum.  Hence why I case people on such things.

I'm willing to lynch people that refuse to participate in the game.  As time wears on, they'll become dead weight.  Better to prune those out now than in MYLO.  Vig shots are a great way of doing that, but I have no idea if one exists.

I think you know why miserps are scummy.  I shouldn't have to explain that to you.

2 hours ago, Magnificence Incarnate said:

I'm gonna post soon but I just wanted to highlight this.

If you have time to highlight things like that, you have time to make a proper case.

1 hour ago, athena_57 said:

I'm liking Eclipse's stuff so far. It seems 'honest' scumhunting.
I agree with the notion Refa seems like detached town.
Weapons weird behavior is throwing me off, but I think it's NAI, perhaps even weird enough to make it townish.

I approve of the case on Bartozio, he's been acting pretty weird, but I don't see any merit in joining the wagon at this point.


Going to defend Zeus here for a sec, I can confirm saying stuff like 'I'm stupid' to people he doesn't know, sitting back and playing passively and a tendency to laziness are all things I expect him to do whether he's town or scum. Consider this a meta-read saying his behaviour is NAI. It is however extremely annoying @zeus_112, and I would urge you to become more productive.

In similar fashion, all the other little-posters, so Fable, nightmare, JB etc. are null to me, with JB being slightly worse due to his hypocritical post about non-activity.

Satsuma > Bartozio > JB for me atm.

. . .and THIS was what I was looking for.

The tone thing will bug me for the rest of the game, but I can live with these reads for now.

As for your brother, his fate is in his own hands.  In mafia, it's sink or swim, and the last thing I want is laziness in the later stages of the game.

58 minutes ago, Magnificence Incarnate said:

Ok wtf happen to my spoiler tags

Rather than respond to Wonky Post, I quoted this.  It's a little odd that you're talking about Junko being wishy-washy, then do the exact same thing with your Weapons read.

For now:

##Unvote
##Vote: zeus_112

So, votes on you makes you do things.  Have two, and start talking.

Will wait for Weapons to make a coherent post after he wakes up.  Will also wait a bit for Marth to finish up his reads and whatnot.  These are two null reads that should be non-null by the time I come back.

Everyone that I didn't mention either needs to post more, or is at least a null leaning town.

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kinda frustrating that bibbon hasn't come back yet tbh but I'm just going to vote my strongest suspicion since it's been a while at this point and I have low patience. ##Unvote, ##Vote: Weapons

i also took a closer look at weapons's reads paragraph. in addition to what refa pointed out about the timing, the reads themselves are pretty unimpressive. the sentences on walrein and kirsche are fine but the rest of it is just whatever and talks about stuff like getting pinged by the formatting of Bibbon's post (???) and some waffle about Eclipse's meta. 

probably at weapons > jb > bibbon actually. jb talking about how all this stuff has happened in the thread and that fable/satsuma should be able to talk about it while not saying a single thing about it all himself is actually really bad. gives me the impression he was lurking and chose not to post until then to jump on that post.

i think it's pretty safe to assume town has a vig in a 21p game

4 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Think outside of this game, about a person (let's call 'em Kim) who's really shy and quiet IRL, but turns into a raging troll online.  Someone who knows both sides of Kim would most likely conclude that Kim has some interpersonal issues.

wow I think you're being a bit harsh to Iris here

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2 hours ago, Walrein said:

nate's intro post is really thin and i haven't decided if it's disinterested town after a prod or disinterested scum in general. i do get decent tonal vibes from his "sheep me" post

I thought it would be obvious the sheep post was a joke. I'm not that stupid.

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