We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

[Athena_57]

29 minutes ago, Refa said:

TBH, I just saw Athena's lynch priority and he has all of the hard to lynch people as Leaning Town/Strong Town which is I dunno...I'm just thinking, there's no way that all of these people are actually town.

I mean, they're hard to lynch for a reason? Like, I know there's a good chance 1 or 2 of them are scum, but I'm not going to omit a random one of them from my townreads because I'm presumably wrong about one of them...

I take it you are scumreading one of them though, care to tell me who?

[Refa]

2 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

I mean, they're hard to lynch for a reason? Like, I know there's a good chance 1 or 2 of them are scum, but I'm not going to omit a random one of them from my townreads because I'm presumably wrong about one of them...

I take it you are scumreading one of them though, care to tell me who?

No, it's more like...it seems unnatural to me.  You don't feel the least bit suspicious or paranoid about any of them?  It reads as scum to me because you lack that healthy paranoia AND that you've been going after very non controversial targets the whole game.

I already mentioned that Shinori/ZKirsche/Eclipse are the ones I'd most expect to be scum, even though I'm not scumreading them.

[Athena_57]

2 minutes ago, Refa said:

No, it's more like...it seems unnatural to me.  You don't feel the least bit suspicious or paranoid about any of them?  It reads as scum to me because you lack that healthy paranoia AND that you've been going after very non controversial targets the whole game.

I already mentioned that Shinori/ZKirsche/Eclipse are the ones I'd most expect to be scum, even though I'm not scumreading them.

I'm not paranoid about one in particular, no. Like, some of them have this "rough" side to them, like Eclipse ignoring my respons or your flip-floppiness, but none of them are bad enough to warrant a null/scumread. A slight townread still belongs in leaning town in my eyes.

[Shinori]

35 minutes ago, Zkirsche said:

I don't think Weapons claiming he tracked me is over the top @Vi-astra considering that is what Sully was kind of implying. I think he did it to end confusion ("people are bad at reading between the lines" - Refa) from people like Shinori.

 @Shinori have you finished rereading yet? Thoughts on players? Can you make like a listpost or some shit I hate your quotewalls.

1: I wasn't confused, so I don't understand why my name was even mentioned WRT the stupid claiming fiasco of Sully and weapons.  Sully was obviously not saying he was a tracker tracking someone to Eury, otherwise he would have just stated that.  I'm not quite a fan of Weapons response though because he's not acting like the town!Weapons that I know of.  I don't see his play as similiar to EO3 and I feel it's different.

2:  Stuff I meant to reread regarding vote swaps was that I felt Nightmare's vote swap was ass but I'm not to confident on Nightmare being scum based on his role.  Mind you my thoughts on players have been posted to an extent in my quote walls; I'm not gonna go into crazy detail about my town reads as I don't like to do that as much but my scum reads are currently along the lines of:

Scum reads:

Athena
Kirsche

Leaning scum:

Walrein
Refa
BBM
Jaybee
Junko

No particular order.  I haven't read Junko's most recent wall post so that may chance some thoughts/opinions on them. 

Walrein is starting to rub me the wrong way and I'm getting scum vibes from him.  I was town reading him from Early day 1 play but that was primarily based on the fact that he was actually posting and that's probably a bad idea to just town read someone on.

Jaybee is completely unmemorable and I don't even remember them really doing anything, apparently like the first vote on the Bart lynch wagon though so I dislike that.

Refa is actually giving me Third vibes.  This is mainly gut though and I don't actually think he's scum.  Kind of the reason I'm not really pushing this at all cause I don't wanna deal with ITP hunting when we don't even know if there is one in the game.

I disagree with Bibbon when he said he town read BBM based on BBM's case on Bibbom followed by BBM unvoting Bibbon.  I could see Scum!BBM unvoting and not just continuing with the pressure because otherwise it would look bad.  I was iffy on bibbon last phase but after thinking about it more and re-reading some of the content I feel he's a bigger town read now.  Especially with the random Jailkeeper claim?  I gotta say that came outta nowhere and I'm not a fan but I don't see it as scum.

Athena case's have already been posted, both by myself and Snike and I'm really disliking Kirsche over this past day phase.  Day 1 I was leaning scummy on him but it's only gotten worse in my eyes.

So for now since I forgot to unvote a while ago:

##Unvote:

##Vote: Athena

[Shinori]

9 hours ago, Bibbon said:

I'm thinking BBM has to be town here for pushing me first and then backing off when he read the long post. I assume as scum, he would continue to push me(?). This reasoning maybe weak, but this combined with everything else, makes me think town for him. 

This post in particular is what I was talking about.  I kind of disagree with this reasoning.  I feel like Scum!BBM could make a case on Bibbon, realize it might have been a bad idea and then unvote/change reads after the Bibbon response.  It was also a fairly quick 180 in my opinion, kind of as if the Bibbon read was forced to begin with.

9 hours ago, BBM said:

you should ALWAYS be paranoid about shinori

and if it's lylo and he's alive, ALWAYS lynch him. no exceptions

Yo wtf.

[Shinori]

52 minutes ago, Refa said:

TBH, I just saw Athena's lynch priority and he has all of the hard to lynch people as Leaning Town/Strong Town which is I dunno...I'm just thinking, there's no way that all of these people are actually town.

Can you reiterate on this Refa?

[Refa]

Just now, Shinori said:

Can you reiterate on this Refa?

Scum would have to be really bad for all of their members to be in the lynch pool after a D1 mislynch in a 22p game.

[Shinori]

You know it's really weird that Kirsche doesn't wanna deal with my quote walls but apparently read Junkos Eury wall.

[Refa]

Like, I wouldn't push anyone purely on that because it's unfair, but I think town should at least be like "yo, maybe one of these townie people are scum" even if they're not explicitly acting on it.  I don't care if people voice that concern but when Athena outright says "yup these people are all town ##jaybee" I'm like "what".  Maybe it's unfair.

Is Kirsche scumreading you, Shinori?  If he's not, then it makes sense, but if he is, then he has something to answer for.

[Shinori]

Iono Kirsche has been throwing flak my way since day 1 but hasn't outright said he's scumreading me this game.  I got the feeling that he was.

[Zkirsche]

Quote walls aren't the same as Eury walls.

Shinori am I scummy for simply not liking the amount you've posted nor the way you've posted it?

[Snike]

I am catching up but kirsche saying he missed a response is kind of odd? i tagged him in the post he wanted a tldr for; this is after he called my argument listpost unreadable. (Page 24)

 also yo refa wtf I tagged you spent 20 minutes compiling my greatest hits AND went through captchas for you do you have nothing to say about my stuff other than my claim is good?

[Refa]

22 minutes ago, Snike said:

I am catching up but kirsche saying he missed a response is kind of odd? i tagged him in the post he wanted a tldr for; this is after he called my argument listpost unreadable. (Page 24)

 also yo refa wtf I tagged you spent 20 minutes compiling my greatest hits AND went through captchas for you do you have nothing to say about my stuff other than my claim is good?

I'm voting Athena!  That was part of the reason (I mentioned some of your reasoning but didn't really state where it came from), sorry for not mentioning it though.  Why do you think JB makes more sense as scum than Athena now?

[Snike]

@Refa Just giving you a hard time.

I voted JB bc I agree w/ the bbm case + I didn't think extra pressure on athena would amount to anything; especially after the wagon failed late d1 + we have his claim

I am still rereading but I had to stop because I noticed something: His night action doesn't strike me as consistent. Why would he network you when his big townreads were Via eclipse at the end of D1? Sure eclipse might've later went down but at the same time he didn't mention you after he was pressed repeatedly for reads list. 21-27 Are context for that

going back to recap stuff bc I do have to go at him over that post for other reasons

[Refa]

1 minute ago, Snike said:

I am still rereading but I had to stop because I noticed something: His night action doesn't strike me as consistent. Why would he network you when his big townreads were Via eclipse at the end of D1? Sure eclipse might've later went down but at the same time he didn't mention you after he was pressed repeatedly for reads list. 21-27 Are context for that

Did he claim to target me?

[Snike]

4 hours ago, athena_57 said:

I did indeed select Refa as my target, but was redirected towards nightmare.

 

[Refa]

I don't get why he'd target me over Via/eclipse as scum though...Or rather, I don't get why it's something he'd only do as scum.

[Athena_57]

6 minutes ago, Snike said:

I am still rereading but I had to stop because I noticed something: His night action doesn't strike me as consistent. Why would he network you when his big townreads were Via eclipse at the end of D1? Sure eclipse might've later went down but at the same time he didn't mention you after he was pressed repeatedly for reads list. 21-27 Are context for that

I didn't target Eclipse because she was likely to go down, perhaps even that night. Same with Via, both were universally townread and thus risky to connect in my eyes. Refa on the other hand was a little less "in the spotlight" so to speak.

[Athena_57]

I also mentioned seeing Refa as "detached town"

[Snike]

You were defending him at the time + I feel like scum!him would be uncomfortable for pressure;

@athena_57 That was page 10 and literally one line; you're telling me the read didn't evolve as the day went on?

Like your 21 dropped it and added a weapons townread; so why not network there? (I point to 21 because that's the draft of your final reads; you point to it 24 and 26)

I am done responding until I do the catch up thing I wanted to do.

[Jaybee]

so i've actually caught up to page 40 and i actually hate this game, it took me a good 3 hours to get here from start of d2

likely going to defend myself first and then i'll see how i function

[Percivalé]

sully first of all this is a huge game. second of all if the only reason you're reading me as scum is because my play is "lackluster" compared to p5 idk what to tell you? I think you're town and feel bad you had to sub into a huge game with over 30 pages of content but you're definitely not getting the whole picture in regards to how I've been playing, especially if you didn't see my efforts trying to catch up while I was insomniac n1. admittedly I'm falling behind again but from what you're saying you're expecting me to be a mega town influence? if you saw me play EO mafia recently I was shit that game and spent most of it coasting and I was town. so I ask you to read in between the lines.

[Refa]

Via, who are you scumreading again?  My amnesia is OP.

[Jaybee]

15 hours ago, BBM said:

wouldn't actually mind voting there but for now ##Vote: Jaybee

1. I think I covered why his initial  posts voting Fable weren't great. Just felt like he jumped on something that was obviously "bad" and didn't really talk about anything else, even as he was pushing Fable for not doing so. and then when he comes back later his Fable unvote felt weird because there wasn't really any sort of progression? he just unvotes without saying why and then never talks about Fable again. this reinforces my feeling that this vote was very opportunistic.

2. this post right after isn't very good. it's implied in this post due to this question to refa that he still finds fable suspicious, but he never actually looks at fable's posts. kind of makes me feel like he dropped it because he was getting flak for it. i dislike the eclipse bit because he's attacking her play and saying he doesn't know what to make of it even though he concludes by saying she's town. kirsche bit is similarly waffly and I don't think it was even true. bit on bartozio is ~okay~ but also waffly and worded as a pressure vote because it would be more valuable than a zeus vote. last part feels strange because he hadn't talked about zeus at all. weapons stuff is fine though. 

3.this is probably his best post but there's still stuff i don't like. the stuff on marth's claim is just... wrong and I think several people pointed it out and he keeps saying it in subsequent posts regardless so idk what was going on there. the bit on eclipse is decent but it's kind of a departure from his earlier read on her and feels like a recurring problem with his play where his cases seem to be heavily based on just one post. it was like that with fable and bartozio (initially anyways) too. i think his reasoning for staying on bartozio here is reasonable.

1,2. mm I will admit that I was really lazy on rereading Fable and I don't recall him doing very much else on D1, but I didn't really feel a need to explain why I unvoted because on p9 he did end up giving some reads.

2. well yeah of course i had nothing else to say about Zeus, that was my first comment on him and I'm not sure why this is weird? The eclipse section is poor wording on my part, I meant that I thought she was playing badly but still townish at that point in time.

3. K let me use this to explain my thoughts on the Marth claim.

If I'm scum and I think I'm going to get lynched at some point in town, maybe one thing I do is fakeclaim Delayed because alignment-cops (and anyone else, tbh) won't want to target me. Bartozio had a good post here about the scum benefit of the claim if it's real. I see where everyone else is coming from regarding the town aspect of it, and I disagree with you. I think the eclipse read is a natural development from her exchange with zeus and the issues I mentioned twice.

5 hours ago, athena_57 said:

Scum: Jaybee (see below

I wasn't even aware of how bad his early content was tbh (in fact I forgot about it) until I saw BBM's case. I was bothered by Nightmare's "distanced summaries", but this is even worse.
What I'm adding to this is that of all the Bartozio votes, his concerns me the most. All of the votes from nightmare onwards I'll classify as consolidation votes and am thus not bothered by, and all the other votes before mine have been made by people I townread.

I don't think the Bart wagon was primarily scumdriven, but obviously there was some scum in the early votes and none of the others make sense as scum imo. It kind of feels like JB placed a random vote on Bart, then saw that turn into a wagon and felt "huh, that works, let's leave it here". Like, he's obviously scumreading Bibbon big time, makes a post attacking her but doesn't swap? Feels like he just wanted to keep the Bart wagon intact tbh.

##Vote: Jaybee

However, speaking of that JB post attacking Bibbon, did Bibbon ever reply? I like her stuff from today, but some of JB's questions are good questions. Did I miss the reply?

well yeah of course I didn't remove the vote because I didn't post anything content related between my initial Bart vote and my decision to stick to him end D1. I voiced my reasoning for keeping the vote there clearly, and I also clearly said that I didn't want to pursue the Bibbon case on Day 1 because I wasn't going to be awake by the end of phase and there wasn't a way to push that lynch.

and no, everyone missed the bibbon post, it's back here and i'll follow up on this after

[Percivalé]

JB

I'm in limbo as far as reads go but my vote is on JB and he's my strongest as far as scumreads go

I was scumreading the nightmare slot really hard and after the claim & some thngs I remember from my read last night I don't think so anymore

eclipse's content today has been bothering me actually but I don't know if I think she's scum or what.