We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

[Fable]

Next person that tells me I'm coasting when there are a ton of people doing less than me and subbing out left and right is getting my vote. 

[Iris]

NEW CHALLENGER APPROACHING!

Kaoz has subbed in for Bibbon.

Fenrir Aesir and zeus_112 have been prodded.

[Percivalé]

whoa.........................kaoz.......................where have you been buddy i missed you

[Fable]

Read over kirsche and I think it makes junko look way worse. Kirchse has down way more analysis and has commented on way more things than just the one "misrepped argument" junko kept referring to over and over which makes junko appear kinda disingenuous.  Like at one point kirsche analyzes some of the votes/suspicions on him and I think that's super villagery. 

Aorn I'd probably vote Junko or Weapons (Zeus is still an option but I think everyone has forgotten about him). 

[Kaoz]

It's been a while. To make one thing clear from the start, I subbed in under the condition that I won't go back and read anything that has happened so far. As I'm sure some of you saw me on the viewing list the past couple days, I only skimmed a bit, so my knowledge of what's going on is accordingly vague.

In that sense, I'd like to ask everyone what their top 3 scum reads are right now. It'd be great if you could include approximately how certain you are of each read as well as why you are scum reading that slot. If you made a more detailed case that still applies, feel free to just link that post instead.

Also, a list of role claims would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[Athena_57]

Okay, I see a Kirsche wagon forming, but I'm not completely sure where that's coming from. I hear he's tunneling a lot, but to me it didn't feel like that at all tbh, I'll reread him, but in the meantime, could someone link me a post containing a sort of summary of the Kirsche case (or make one)? I assume there is one, but I can't find it.

As for Marth, I suppose I'll reread him as well (not like it's much effort) as if the attacks on him are justified it might be a good reason to re-evaluate my null read.

47 minutes ago, Kaoz said:

In that sense, I'd like to ask everyone what their top 3 scum reads are right now. It'd be great if you could include approximately how certain you are of each read as well as why you are scum reading that slot. If you made a more detailed case that still applies, feel free to just link that post instead.

Also, a list of role claims would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

I claimed co-connector, each night I select someone who gets a quicktopic with someone else selected by a player with the same ability I have. This QT lasts until one of them dies, and an additional one is created each night. Last night I selected Refa, but was redirected to Nightmare (now replaced by Mack) who martyr'd Refa. The other player in the QT claimed, it's Fable, we don't know the other connector.

Nightmare/Mack claimed martyr, (select a player, all actions targeting that player target Mack instead)

Eclipse is confirmed Mayor

Snike/Satsuma hydra claimed role miller I think? They'd better explain themselves, I didn't fully understand it, but the point is, investigation results on them are wrong.

Magnificence Incarnate claimed delayer+self-watcher

Bibbon (you) claimed jailor

Via claimed riddler, he needs our character names and is vanilla till he knows all of them

Sully claimed this weird role where they select someone and their action fails if that person uses a night action. They used it on Kirsche, the role failed, Kirsche confirmed (or at least didn't deny) he used a night action. (Side note, Sully made the awkward decision of starting a Kirsche case over this, but that was dropped after he realized there were way less vanilla townies (read: none) in this game than what he's used to)

I think that's everyone? Sorry if I missed someone or got something wrong.

 

As for my top 3 lynch targets:

Nr 1: Jaybee BBM opened this case here, I joined and added some points here   and  

 He defended himself here, which I commented on here BBM also replied to him somewhere, I suggest you look it up.

Point is, JB has been inactive, only posting surface level reads and not interacting, whilst keeping his vote on yesterday's mislynch wagon whilst he was scumreading someone else (for whom you subbed in). Then out of nowhere in the midst of questioning her (you now), he feels the need to leave himself a way out and says he feels a lot better about it today without explaining why.

Nr 2: Nightmare/Mack (sub)

Mack is still catching up, but Nightmare is in the same boat as JB, in that he's only been posting these surface-level uninteractive summaries from time to time. 30 minutes before phase end, when the biggest wagon was only halfway to providing a lynch, he decided to not contribute to a lynch but vote someone who wasn't going to be lynched that day. He also made a really weird comment on Snike then, saying:

"You seem a little over-eager to push the Bartozio lynch, Snike. I know we'll need a lynch by the end of the day, but it's making me a bit uneasy", around 10 minutes before phase end whilst no lynch was a massive threat at the time, it read like he was setting himself up for a Bart town-flip.

Nightmare has subbed out now, so my vote isn't here whilst I'm waiting for the sub to catch up.

Nr 3 Zeus

I'm null on him, but Zeus has made it clear he isn't going to scumhunt or contribute. Yesterday we reached a sort of consensus he should be vigged, but that didn't happen. If none of my scumreads get anywhere, I'm willing to consolidate here to get rid of him, I feel multiple people are in the same boat.

 

[Athena_57]

Oh, @Kaoz The second link (to my post) links to a massive post, only the bottom part is relevant w/ regards to the JB case

[Athena_57]

I should mention about Nightmare/Mack, their claimed role is very towny, which makes me doubt the case a fair bit.

[Zkirsche]

My motivation for this game is just gone at this point. Everyone I was looking forward to seeing responses from: Marth, Nightmare, and now Junko have all subbed out. Nightmare's claim is w/e because there might be something on top of the martyr to make it worthwhile for him to target town (assuming Refa town). @Fable what is Mackc like in the quicktopic? I don't think it's fair to say I haven't followed up because I did where I could aside from commenting on the nightmare claim.

I am really really torn on Athena because rolespec implies he is scum but there are some points of contention for that. His voting behaviour LD1 is townie, none of his posts read very scummy (like, the cases against him are good but kind of nitpicky?) and he doesn't really make sense as a buddy for Junko/Nightmare given the cases they made against each other (Junko against Athena, Athena against Nightmare). @Refa @Snike who do you think Athena's buddies are and what are they doing right now?

I don't know anything about Junko's meta tbh I can't really remember, I just know he was kinda flaky. I don't really want to consider 2 year old meta though, nor do I want to read up his past games. The problem with sitting on the same read is that it's really easy to make a bunch of reads ED1 but hard to maintain them or show that they evolve as scum. So if that's all someone has then it's likely it comes from scum. It also lets scum have a lot of reads which appears better than not having many.

 I'm kinda annoyed we didn't yesterday now. People casing me for "tunneling" should really take a step back and think to themselves what they'd do in my shoes coming into the day phase with Junko ignoring your case and mislabelling it as a misrep. I don't think it was a misplay on my part to keep pushing there.

##Unvote
##Vote: Shinori

Shinori's read post here is mediocre imo. He never explained why Walrein was rubbing him the wrong way, Refa is third on gut (???). His bit about BBM is just discrediting Bibbon's townread on BBM and he is really disliking me over the day phase but of course never explains why. Would like some expansion here. I don't think JB is unmemorable now either so would like to see what he thinks of JB's new content.

Mackc's push on me isn't really scummy but again he should think more about things from my perspective. Null on the slot post-nightmare but still happy with lynching it.

Feeling the same way about JB as I do Athena in a way, just don't see his content as super bad but can't argue against the cases against him. Will try to read him in more detail but it's hard.

Top three lynch dandidates fo me are Junko/Mackc/Shinori. Junko's read LD1 were very outdated and he accused me of misrepping him when I pointed that out. Mackc's predecessor Nightmare was scummy because of a strange LD1 vote switch and his attitude to scumhunting in general D1 and my Shinori read is explained above.

[Fable]

Mack isn't posting much of anything in our chat which makes me really annoyed he wants to wolf read me for skating by when he's not doing anything ITT or in there. 

[Fable]

I'm very against a shinori lynch btw, Eury went on about how Shinori was villagery multiple times so I don't see wolf!Shinori making that kill tbh. 

[Athena_57]

2 minutes ago, Fable said:

Mack isn't posting much of anything in our chat which makes me really annoyed he wants to wolf read me for skating by when he's not doing anything ITT or in there. 

Do you mean little posting or fluff posting? Not that it makes much of a difference, but I'd like to know anyways.

[Athena_57]

1 minute ago, Fable said:

I'm very against a shinori lynch btw, Eury went on about how Shinori was villagery multiple times so I don't see wolf!Shinori making that kill tbh. 

Not only is that very "level 0" thinking, it also neglects the fact that scum!Shinori has a bunch of teammates. I'm not saying I agree with the case on him, but you're handwaving it a little too easy for my tastes.

[Fable]

1 minute ago, athena_57 said:

Do you mean little posting or fluff posting? Not that it makes much of a difference, but I'd like to know anyways.

I mean no posting.

Like we haven't had any real discussion in there or anything. 

[Fable]

Just now, athena_57 said:

Not only is that very "level 0" thinking, it also neglects the fact that scum!Shinori has a bunch of teammates. I'm not saying I agree with the case on him, but you're handwaving it a little too easy for my tastes.

It' not though, like I've never seen a wolf kill someone who was V reading them super hard and it's not like Eury was super on the right track or anything when she was sussing mostly me and Bibbon so the teammate thing doesn't fly super well. 

[Refa]

2 minutes ago, Fable said:

Mack isn't posting much of anything in our chat which makes me really annoyed he wants to wolf read me for skating by when he's not doing anything ITT or in there. 

Well, it is like 1:20AM in Australia lol.  How often were you on after he subbed in?

Kirsche, I'm rereading the whole thread (I can feel myself dying inside with every post), so I'll get back to you in a few.  Currently, I think I agree with your reads but I'm on like Page 20.  Actually probably dropping my Athena read, I don't think his stuff was as scummy as I remembered upon rereading.

[Fable]

1 minute ago, Refa said:

Well, it is like 1:20AM in Australia lol.  How often were you on after he subbed in?

Kirsche, I'm rereading the whole thread (I can feel myself dying inside with every post), so I'll get back to you in a few.  Currently, I think I agree with your reads but I'm on like Page 20.  Actually probably dropping my Athena read, I don't think his stuff was as scummy as I remembered upon rereading.

I've checked in on it every 2-3 hours or so since I got it (obviously ignoring me sleeping). 

[Refa]

Just now, Fable said:

I've checked in on it every 2-3 hours or so since I got it (obviously ignoring me sleeping). 

He subbed in like 24 hours or more ago, right?  If so, then yeah I think him ignoring the QT is scummy.

[Fable]

1 minute ago, Refa said:

He subbed in like 24 hours or more ago, right?  If so, then yeah I think him ignoring the QT is scummy.

Well to give you some time frame of reference it's been like 29 hours since anyone has posted anything in there. 

[Iris]

Something has happened!

W-what?

What's this?

Makaze has subbed in for zeus_112.

[Makaze]

Hello everyone I am town and I literally have not read anything other than the OP.

I may claim if it becomes necessary but for right now I'd like to see a votecount and to see links to important cases so that I jump into the game without major upsets. Currently checking people who have flipped.

Any confirmed town's opinions preferred over people being voted.

-Makaze

[Athena_57]

3 minutes ago, Makaze said:

Hello everyone I am town and I literally have not read anything other than the OP.

I may claim if it becomes necessary but for right now I'd like to see a votecount and to see links to important cases so that I jump into the game without major upsets. Currently checking people who have flipped.

Any confirmed town's opinions preferred over people being voted.

-Makaze

If you scroll up this page, you'll see my gamestance, including a list of people who claimed a role.

[Makaze]

2 hours ago, Kaoz said:

It's been a while. To make one thing clear from the start, I subbed in under the condition that I won't go back and read anything that has happened so far. As I'm sure some of you saw me on the viewing list the past couple days, I only skimmed a bit, so my knowledge of what's going on is accordingly vague.

In that sense, I'd like to ask everyone what their top 3 scum reads are right now. It'd be great if you could include approximately how certain you are of each read as well as why you are scum reading that slot. If you made a more detailed case that still applies, feel free to just link that post instead.

Also, a list of role claims would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Towny entrance seeming in the same boat as me,
going to consider Kaoz town until further notice.

I think athena is town because of advanced lack of TMI. Reasoning: The following post simply could not have been made and make sense as someone who controls the kill orders. It would be TMI if either of Via or eclipse got killed, but since neither did, this reads as genuine reasoning that requires him to be uninformed and out of control of the target. Seems too advanced for most people to fake, let alone newbs.

22 hours ago, athena_57 said:

I didn't target Eclipse because she was likely to go down, perhaps even that night. Same with Via, both were universally townread and thus risky to connect in my eyes. Refa on the other hand was a little less "in the spotlight" so to speak.

[Refa]

Just now, Makaze said:

I think athena is town because of advanced lack of TMI. Reasoning: The following post simply could not have been made and make sense as someone who controls the kill orders. It would be TMI if either of Via or eclipse got killed, but since neither did, this reads as genuine reasoning that requires him to be uninformed and out of control of the target. Seems too advanced for most people to fake, let alone newbs.

Can you explain this further?  What do you mean by TMI?

[Makaze]

Reading eclipse now.

Just now, Refa said:

Can you explain this further?  What do you mean by TMI?

TMI = Too Much Information

Mafia have information on the actual reasoning of the mafia kill. They are much less likely to have complex speculations that to incorrect death guesses. When you are making up a claim like this, it rarely makes this much sense. If eclipse or via had been killed, then this post would look bad for him, but since they didn't, I think it makes perfect sense from a town POV, when he really has no idea what scum is thinking. i.e. he's guessing