We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Why the hell is being waffly even considered a scumtell? I never understood that one, it seems like another OMGUS.

@BBM, ur case is shite m8 catch me outside, how about that. But for real yeah I know I’ve had like no scumreads and haven’t really been pushing anyone; I should definitely do more of the latter, with more cognizance to decommiting, but I feel pretty bad when I push someone to lynch and they flip town. Since coming back, my reads haven’t been very good either and so I’m just unconfident about things, and don’t really want to come up with scumreads just to have scumreads. I also want to avoid scumreading people just cause they pinged me and I reread them in-depth, cause I’d tend to just be confirmation biased. TBH also, most of the cases that people usually put out I can’t get behind because they are of that variety. eh

[BBM]

ok I am also suspicious of eclipse. i think i would probably go weapons > eclipse > junko right now. i know my last few posts have been pretty waffly about junko but yeah whatever i don't have a lot of scumreads

so firstly I do think it is an accurate assessment of eclipse's play to say that she's been pushing bad play over scum play. a lot of her posts on d1 especially are basically just telling people (zeus, fable, bibbon) to post more content and telling them the importance of posting content. that's not all her play but it does comprise a decent amount of it. this is all really easy content that makes it seem like she's doing a lot more than she is. other instances of her pushing people for doing something bad as opposed to scummy play are her saying she was slightly more suspicious of refa/via for following weapons's troll claim. if you remove stuff like this her content is basically only on athena and marth:

her early d1 athena vote had really bad logic and never showed why there was scum intent. i remember being dissatisfied with it at the time but dropping it because i didn't think i would get more. it just doesn't make any sense. she says that there was a super large discrepancy in tone between when athena pushes people vs answering questions from other people. not only does she exaggerate the difference in tone:

Tone is a spectrum, with "cowering in a corner" on one end and "stark-raving accusations" on the other.  When someone's response in the same time frame goes too far on both ends of the spectrum, it's pretty suspicious.

she never really says WHY it's suspicious, just that it is.

her end of d1/start of d2 athena vote is mostly predicated on athena saying he didn't want to lynch marth and then putting him in a lynch priority. however it's quite clear that that lynch priority is specifically on who to consolidate on out of the major wagons at the time, not his reads overall.

her day 1 marth vote is good but I really dislike her d2 marth vote. it just feels really weak. the second part about marth "throwing shade" at walrein sucks because walrein up to that point had not really given an excuse for flaking and has a history of flaking as scum. marth had a reason for having to go. that feels like the crux of her re-vote on him? 

 

[BBM]

sorry, posted early. some questions for @eclipse: what are your opinions on kirsche/junko? it feels like you've only tangentially talked about them and when you did you basically just said that kirsche made you uncomfortable tonally because he was being hyper-aggressive. i feel like you should know that that part is pretty null regarding kirsche?

being waffly isn't a scumtell by itself. it just adds to the feeling that you're not really pushing anyone when that's your strongest scumread.

5 minutes ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

Why the hell is being waffly even considered a scumtell? I never understood that one, it seems like another OMGUS.

@BBM, ur case is shite m8 catch me outside, how about that. But for real yeah I know I’ve had like no scumreads and haven’t really been pushing anyone; I should definitely do more of the latter, with more cognizance to decommiting, but I feel pretty bad when I push someone to lynch and they flip town. Since coming back, my reads haven’t been very good either and so I’m just unconfident about things, and don’t really want to come up with scumreads just to have scumreads. I also want to avoid scumreading people just cause they pinged me and I reread them in-depth, cause I’d tend to just be confirmation biased. TBH also, most of the cases that people usually put out I can’t get behind because they are of that variety. eh

so how do you plan on coming up with scumreads if you're not going to scumread them even after they ping you and then you reread them in depth?

[Refa]

For me @WeaponsofMassConstruction, it doesn't feel like you've ever had this much trouble coming w/scumreads in the past few games.  I get that this game is larger and there are like 53 pages and it's harder to parse through it all, but I'm not really seeing the effort from you.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

1 minute ago, BBM said:

so how do you plan on coming up with scumreads if you're not going to scumread them even after they ping you and then you reread them in depth?

I was going to say by reading everyone in-depth and trying to give them a fair assessment of how likely it is that their posts come from a scum perspective or a town perspective, and then ranking everyone against each other, but I know that's not going to happen. Maybe it's just this game where the players that I've taken the time to investigate all happen to be town and I'd see it if I was on scum, and I'm discouraged because. Also maybe a simpler way of saying what I said before is that I get invested in my reads and really do not like being wrong about them.

[Percivalé]

when I'm done with this DnD session I'll finally post updates. FTR I think I can safely say snike now is my strongest townread. there are a bunch of little things I don't feel like I need to go into necessarily since snike/satsuma slot isn't in danger of being lynched. ALSO I'm still kinda reading marth scum despite his claim; though I'm having trouble imagining why his role would have scum benefit; if he's a self-watcher I guess so? I've also been back-and-forth on weapons ALL game and I don't know if that's gonna change on reread.

[BBM]

1 minute ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

I was going to say by reading everyone in-depth and trying to give them a fair assessment of how likely it is that their posts come from a scum perspective or a town perspective, and then ranking everyone against each other, but I know that's not going to happen. Maybe it's just this game where the players that I've taken the time to investigate all happen to be town and I'd see it if I was on scum, and I'm discouraged because. Also maybe a simpler way of saying what I said before is that I get invested in my reads and really do not like being wrong about them.

but you investigated kirsche, said "i have a minor scumread on him" and then did nothing and kept your vote on fable.

[RADicate]

Requesting a sub out for a personal circumstances beyond my control. Sorry guys. Someone else will have to assume my role as town carry.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

7 minutes ago, Refa said:

For me @WeaponsofMassConstruction, it doesn't feel like you've ever had this much trouble coming w/scumreads in the past few games.  I get that this game is larger and there are like 53 pages and it's harder to parse through it all, but I'm not really seeing the effort from you.

I was pretty lost last game too, and I think the only one I was really scumreading (Clarinets) turned out to be town.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

4 hours ago, Jaybee said:

I still don't strongly feel a Junko case here? Like... again, is it the waffling? I don't see scum intent as much as a lack of motivation/time. If someone can link/summarise why there's a case here I'd be happy to read it. and yeah i've put like 0 effort into reading anything regarding kirsche v junk

On Weapons

  Reveal hidden contents

I remember commenting somewhere on D1 that I didn't like Weapons. Reading back his iso as I write this post, and I'm going to cut out the shenanigans which I took to be a null read because it's weapons.

1. opportunistic. Athena went back to reread his role PM later and I don't recall Weapons saying anything about it. I believe this is the first time anyone raises an issue with Bart's play too, and this is over nothing, tbh.

2. this is a lot of words for no end result

3. quoted earlier, but I find everything here to be super waffly

4. gives himself a backdoor for the bart lynch

5. announce doesn't say much regarding scumreads aside from Fable - and then this is all he's said on Fable D2

also the vote park implies that he's not got any other scumread - and at this point, short of a kinda weak one on athena, he really doesn't at early D2.

6. i'm fine with his reread on kirsche/junko

7. and his response to bibbon

Like my overall feeling is that he's not done any actual scumhunting of note. His reads of Fable and kirsche are incredibly meh at best, and once the Bart train started he kind of just disappeared and let it carry on its own.

On Nightmare/Mack

  Reveal hidden contents

1. Start of his push on me. I'm fine with this post itself, but linking here for reference.

2. here he's gone from scumreading athena in 1 to a slight townread, but then he's agreeable to Weapons' scumread on athena?

3. gives himself another out here for me flipping town if/when i die

4. honestly the rest of his D1 again feels like he's giving himself a way out for when the D1 lynch goes badly.

5. enough has been said about this post

6. Missing out the macho aspect is null, imo, it's just carelessness to me.

7. lol idk man now both sides are saying the other is being uncooperative in the QT

8. this is nothing

9. super buddy buddy w junko here, also went from a weapons vote to saying that weapons doesn't bother him much?

10. if Mack really hasn't been using the QT that also doesn't reflect well on him

Feel like Nightmare's play was aimed at positioning himself better after mislynches happen, main thing for Mack is everything in 9 and 10.

On Eclipse

  Reveal hidden contents

1. Mayor claim is fine.

2. I think enough has also been said about her general attitude towards Zeus and her steadfastness in wanting him lynched here and here and by other players whom i can't remember right now

3. She keeps harping on the fact that a zeus lynch is fine because of the associative reads it'll provide. Sure, but a lynch on someone more active like Athena or Marth/Omega or Junko would give a lot more? I don't see any town reason for pushing the Zeus lynch from her POV.

4. She never addresses athena's correction of her misrep of his lynch priority (boy, that was a mouthful). 

5. Is asking people to stop claiming roles something Eclipse normally does?

6. here the thought progression wrt me is super off - because she couldn't see my POV on Marth's claim, everything else I said became null? Did you find scum intent in my D1 posts or in my interpretation of Marth's claim? And she hasn't followed up on my response.

7. haven't read that thoroughly but her pushing Marth is fine.

Man, when I started on this I was sure she looked worse but now it's just Zeus stuff, tbh. I still see the scum intent in pushing for a zeus lynch with the intensity she has, and that's about it so far.

I'm nowhere near done, these are just some of the people that popped up more clearly in my mind as scumreads. Might continue in the morning.

##Vote: Mack

How do you read junko?

Can someone tell me how to do the reveal hidden contents thing that JB did? What tags? I tried

test

and [collapse]test[/collapse] but it's not showing. Testing it here.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

Nevermind, think I got it.

7 hours ago, Shinori said:

Current lynch priority:

Athena > Marth/Omega > JB > Kirsche > BBM > Sully

I'll answer any question you've got in exchange for telling me what you make of the following BBM posts:

 

2 hours ago, BBM said:

i disagree with the point that I'm picking against weaker play as opposed to scum play. i'm pretty sure that with all my cases after RVS i've been pointing out scum intent. this is particularly frustrating to me bc this is basically what I've seen the cases against zeus and satsuma and athena as being and I've been defending against those on d1/d2.

@Refa i don't understand what you mean wrt me not explaining things about bartozio. when i first made that comment it was kind of a gutvibe and then I followed it up and was voting him later on in the day. i dropped bibbon because her frustration in her response to me felt genuine. i generally find that how people react to pressure is more important than what they did to garner that pressure. and like, as I made the large post after that responding to her, even as I was typing it out I was losing confidence in that read.

to be perfectly honest this is also what's happening with jb's response to my read. but i don't know who else to vote. kirsche/junko/weapons and the pile of inactives/people who subbed in for them are next. junko said he didn't have time to make a lot of cases and that's why he was tunneling/parking. considering junko subbed out I think that this is believable. for me to vote junko/radicate right now would basically mean me believing that he was straight up lying about that. not that he couldn't have been scum who was also busy but I didn't have any other big problems with his play.

@Zkirsche i have no idea what you mean by me being ok to lynch you through PoE being bad especially for me. i'm pretty sure i use PoE more than anyone else on SF. i guess i haven't had a single post going through every read and summarizing it. i can do that i guess.

lynching a macho martyr claim this early is bad play. if they're town they'll probably get themselves killed soon. so if they don't die we'll know in a few day phases that they're scum. not down to lynch the nightmare/mack slot.

 

2 hours ago, BBM said:

meh ##Unvote

i read jb's last post with the spoilered cases and i'm not feeling him as my least townie read anymore. i still think that mack is a bad lynch but i think he makes some good points against nightmare and the weapons case is good i think.

it kind of sucks that there were like 30-50 pages for all the subs to come in and read because i don't think most of them read them. so it's hard to know how much to read their posts for.

i reread refa's junko case so i guess i'll reread junko again. i also forgot to reread eclipse so i'll do that too and then come up with a reads post and then i'm probably out for today. pretty demotivated to play mafia right now.

 

1 hour ago, BBM said:

ok confidence back not really

##Vote: Weapons

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

on D1 after the initial shenanigans I thought his posts were okay bc I could see a clear thought process but he never actually really pushed anyone very much as scum. the bulk of his suspicions on D1 were against bartozio and athena. the bartozio stuff wasn't even really based on his content so much as how he claimed and then him leaving the thread for a while. this is his case:

this is really waffly first off. i think the athena stuff is stronger than this but he sticks to this most of the day without really adding much to it. he votes athena later to consolidate but says even as he's doing it that he finds bartozio still scummier. later again he revotes bartozio when that picks up again but even as he votes him he's distancing himself from it:

i think it's okay to not be 100% about a vote you're consolidating on but this has been his main read all game and he doesn't really that strongly about it? it's like he's basically never felt strongly about anything all game.

He's kind of had a similar approach to D2 as me where his vote has been a bit of a park but he's been rereading other people meanwhile and posting thoughts about them. those posts are mostly okay but when you look at his content as a whole it doesn't seem like he's really been trying so much to push the stuff from his rereads. like for example there's this:

i think the points he makes her are mostly fine but... why doesn't he actually vote kirsche here if he comes out with a minor scumread? so what if there's clearer stuff out there, he can change his vote later if he wants. his vote has been on fable this whole time, which is basically just a prodvote to post content. he also doesn't really ask kirsche any questions or anything like that. that makes it feels like he's producing the content for the sake of it as opposed to producing it to actually figure out who's scum.

 

tl dr; a lot of vote parking without pushing anyone as scum. i think it's okay to go through those stretches where you're not confident about who's scum but weapons has basically never pushed anyone strongly at any point in the game. I think up to now I've been giving way too much of a pass to him because he sounds kind of like how I feel and I can sympathize with him not really being able to get a lot of scumreads. but it doesn't feel like his attempts to find scumreads are genuine because he doesn't really pressure them strongly.

 

 

1 hour ago, BBM said:

i think i'll put junko above kirsche in the order to lynch, because he has far fewer posts and it's easier to fake content with a smaller amount of posts, and because i agree with parts of refa's case upon rereading junko. i agree that junko's kirsche read focuses on just a small amount of kirsche's content, and I agree with refa's defence on himself.

but I don't really agree with the athena bit. my understanding of junko's point is (paraphrased) "if you're still unsatisfied with a slot, how can you be okay with unvoting?" i disagree with junko on this bc I think there are times where you've just kind of reached an impasse and you don't see the point of continuing. but i don't think it's a misrep on junko's part. it's also unfair to criticize junko for not responding to refa's defence when junko never posted after refa's defence so it's not like he was ignoring it.

 

 

15 minutes ago, BBM said:

ok I am also suspicious of eclipse. i think i would probably go weapons > eclipse > junko right now. i know my last few posts have been pretty waffly about junko but yeah whatever i don't have a lot of scumreads

so firstly I do think it is an accurate assessment of eclipse's play to say that she's been pushing bad play over scum play. a lot of her posts on d1 especially are basically just telling people (zeus, fable, bibbon) to post more content and telling them the importance of posting content. that's not all her play but it does comprise a decent amount of it. this is all really easy content that makes it seem like she's doing a lot more than she is. other instances of her pushing people for doing something bad as opposed to scummy play are her saying she was slightly more suspicious of refa/via for following weapons's troll claim. if you remove stuff like this her content is basically only on athena and marth:

her early d1 athena vote had really bad logic and never showed why there was scum intent. i remember being dissatisfied with it at the time but dropping it because i didn't think i would get more. it just doesn't make any sense. she says that there was a super large discrepancy in tone between when athena pushes people vs answering questions from other people. not only does she exaggerate the difference in tone:

she never really says WHY it's suspicious, just that it is.

her end of d1/start of d2 athena vote is mostly predicated on athena saying he didn't want to lynch marth and then putting him in a lynch priority. however it's quite clear that that lynch priority is specifically on who to consolidate on out of the major wagons at the time, not his reads overall.

her day 1 marth vote is good but I really dislike her d2 marth vote. it just feels really weak. the second part about marth "throwing shade" at walrein sucks because walrein up to that point had not really given an excuse for flaking and has a history of flaking as scum. marth had a reason for having to go. that feels like the crux of her re-vote on him? 

 

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

1 minute ago, BBM said:

but you investigated kirsche, said "i have a minor scumread on him" and then did nothing and kept your vote on fable.

yeah that happened

[Iris]

Looking for a sub for RADicate. Everyone please send their prayers to him and his family.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Iris

[Snike]

I'm here; I've skimmed and i'm reading; I don't want to make a hugepost because I am still feeling horrible.

-I'm inclined to think refa is scum based on the 180 on athena and subsequent chainsaw on me; I have done stuff particularly outside athena, like the bart stuff which I have explained but you don't go into at all; like defending eclipse + shinori based off of my gut feeling and meta to some extent; and later fenrir over the end of day one which was my responsibility for moving his vote; The nightmare push wasn't out of the blue since I did call him out day one on listposting + then at the end of the day I called out the shade on me. He was a scumread coming into d2 and I pushed it after I thought the claim was faked.

And yeah, the Satsuma stuff means less; like the jb stuff today means less, because it's following someone else for ??? reasons. His reasoning was voting someone over filler. On page 5, when they're a new player to the site. Speaking of Athena:

On 4/10/2018 at 1:04 PM, athena_57 said:

Okay, reread SatsumaFSoySoy and their content is pretty bad. A grand total of 4 filler posts followed by the excuse you mentioned. I'll sheep this for now for pressure.

##Vote: SatsumaFSoySoy

This looks like agreement before you show up and get him to elaborate; which is where the explainy bit on Bartozio is.

My point about hypocrisy I disagree with you on that; I think getting on someone's case when they've admittedly made joke posts; and then telling them not to take you seriously is hypocritical but more importantly it's an easy dismissal of tone; I got the strong impression that it was a "it's just a prank bro;" kind of interaction and then the later OMGUS stuff made me think scummy. I think it's also telling that no one else called me on that; like I asked in that post, until you come along and start a wagon on me.

Actually; how about this: Why the hell is Satsuma on chainsaw list? I'm the one who is kind of doubting the slot at this point in time; Satsuma literally townread him in the latest reads post (Page 45)? Like of that list you point at in shinori spoiler; mack and eclipse are null and you find  my slot scummy but then that bit about chainsaw isn't even true? Speaking of chainsaw this is almost the same thing in that you're attacking me over my casing athena???

At the end of the day, even putting the athena stuff aside you have my strongest townreads (outside via) as scum/null and I don't understand the rapid 180 on stuff like that.

On cases: That was directed at kirsche.

@Zkirsche Network stuff: I mean yes but at the same time it doesn't make immediate sense why you would go to refa immediately over those townreads;, when you last talked about him some 48 hours before day end? The fact that the response was gradual and evolved as I poked holes into it is something I don't find as natural.

Omega; I like some of his stuff but the issue is his role is scummy esp. with Bartozio already flipped with a town night-visit interference role. And then marth with the KOBE "seems faked" post on my roleclaim which follows the sub; NAI but it's like why throw shade on me if you're not going to say anything about my play? And then the shinori read I don't agree with; eclipse null/scum I don't agree with (I find eclipse to be really obvious when she's scum; there's a lot of tone/the cases don't really make sense).

Like, on eclipse v marth: Her latest quotewall (44 I think?) has the marth thing I just mentioned with the suggesting my role claim was faked; the marth comment on walrein which is an easy read to make + it has been said before.

Those can be bad play but they're scummy. Like obviously I don't appreciate that but throwing shade on me like that is suspicious af by Marth.

On explaining eclipse: I don't find at least initially she explains a lot. She points but like detailed explanations are not something that I associate with her play.

Realtalk; I think Athena's been looking better lately but at the same time I still find his earlier stuff really bad; especially end of day one where he admits to quote mining me + quote mining me again when I point that out. So I have two options:

1) My reads are way off this game.

2) Athena is being coached.

And I'm currently pursuing the latter because I don't honestly think I'm that far off read-wise. There is fire to the smoke is what I'm thinking right now.

I like the recent kirsche post but at the same time the shinori stuff I don't agree with at all and it's been a consistent theme? TBH I was initially going to flame kirsche for the BBM push over the IO vote but then half the game thought he was actually in the game so it's NAI there.

Sully is throwing hard shade on my slot without actually naming it and that bothers me; I haven't been "sitting on a case" I've been the one casing and I have been pushing athena because that's been how i've been getting info on that case. That quote irritates me.

I know I had junko like null last vote but I'd be OK to lynch there today to settle that because I feel like junko also has a history of being inactive when scum and that was my first reaction when the lurking happened ed1 but I didn't feel as strongly about it as bart/Athena, especially latter in the heat of the moment.

I am reevaluating weapons right now bc like I honestly can agree with the criticism that I don't feel like he's been pushing and there's been votes swaps that made me ??? but like he has been weaponsing. But at the same time that's not a reason not to suspect him at this point? I'm starting to see what Bibbons meant.

This took way too long. I will be around so please point me to stuff you want addressed if I missed it.

[Snike]

That was way larger than I expected; most of it is addressed to refa/kirsche for reference.

I'm reading weapons now.

[Refa]

why would you voting for confirmed town and defending people make me feel better about you (especially considering shinori/eclipse weren't even under much fire at the time iirc)

like yeah, you did those things but they have no influence on my read on you

[Snike]

You did the same thing on voting confirmed town; and your case is I'm not doing much outside of athena wagon;

That is not true.

[Snike]

Like calling my nm wagon opportunistic is ignoring that context. Like nightmare ignored it end of day 1 when I consolidated.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

11 minutes ago, Snike said:

Omega; I like some of his stuff but the issue is his role is scummy esp. with Bartozio already flipped with a town night-visit interference role. And then marth with the KOBE "seems faked" post on my roleclaim which follows the sub; NAI but it's like why throw shade on me if you're not going to say anything about my play? And then the shinori read I don't agree with; eclipse null/scum I don't agree with (I find eclipse to be really obvious when she's scum; there's a lot of tone/the cases don't really make sense).

Like, on eclipse v marth: Her latest quotewall (44 I think?) has the marth thing I just mentioned with the suggesting my role claim was faked; the marth comment on walrein which is an easy read to make + it has been said before.

Those can be bad play but they're scummy. Like obviously I don't appreciate that but throwing shade on me like that is suspicious af by Marth.

So after Town lynches Bartozio with role speculation being a part of that suspicion, you're going to do it again, but with me?

Regarding eclipse, I have no way of having the information regarding her playstyle that you do. Instead of telling me you disagree and shading me for it, can you please tell me why you think she's likelier town here than scum?

This is dumb. Every game I play here, I push someone, people come out of the woodwork with meta defenses that I have no way of having, then call me scum for it instead of actually engaging with me and trying to get me to understand, or even making the simplest effort to understand my own thought process behind why I'm making the push I'm making.

Marth commenting on Walrein's disappearance isn't scummy. As for it being easy, easy != scummy. I'd argue that paranoia towards Walrein especially after seeing him do the same thing as scum in other game is likelier to come from village than anything.

[Refa]

Also yeah, I was wrong about Satsuma chainsaw defending Junko, my bad.  That didn't factor into my scumread of your slot, though...

4 minutes ago, Snike said:

You did the same thing on voting confirmed town; and your case is I'm not doing much outside of athena wagon;

That is not true.

You're not.  You cited one additional scumread lol and two townreads (and I would not consider townreads to be doing much, at least when you're not defending people who are being wagoned).  Like 70% of your content is focused on your Athena case.

4 minutes ago, Snike said:

Like calling my nm wagon opportunistic is ignoring that context. Like nightmare ignored it end of day 1 when I consolidated.

I don't think your D1 reasons for scumreading Nightmare are opportunistic.  I think your reasons for voting him despite his claim are.  It reminds me of Antihero where Kokichi voted the Doctor despite the claim being obvious town.  You're just handwaving something that is more likely to be town so you don't have to change your read.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

@Vi-astra

Plz engage/interact/ask me questions to get a better read on me if you're scumreading my slot. I don't want a repeat of the last 2 games where you hold distrust towards me; I think you're probably villager here and I don't want a mislynch being validated by someone most of the game reads as Town.

[Zkirsche]

Omega I think I was one of the first to scumread nightmare after that listpost and it might've been me you were thinking of before you scumread Shinori for it. It was just a bad post at the time that wasn't paid much attention to made worse by the fact that he ended up voting me. At the time I was facing a fair amount of criticism so it felt a bit like he was piggybacking off of that.

I don't think Shinori's big response to Refa really changes much it's mostly self-defence. Is there anything of Refa's not about yourself that you agree/disagree with? Why? I think my vote is better spent here for now though:

##Unvote
##Vote: Mackc2

@Mackc2 Thoughts on Junko? Is there a reason you're not engaging with Fable?

@Snike I just feel like it's nitpicky I'm afraid. Why is Athena being coached now but not before when his content was bad? Can you give a general thoughts post on other people with reasoning?

@BBM I expected more from you because it's a 22p game so PoEing someone down D2 is kinda ridiculous. But then you come in with a bunch of well thought out cases on eclipse and wepaons which is definitely more of what I expected.

Still glossing over JB's content but he voted Mack for not commenting on Junko when he has openly admitted to not really reading me vs Junko. While I appreciate the Mackc vote @Jaybee Can you read Refa's case (page 51), my post here D1 and my post here coming into D2. The Junko posts these were scrutinising were one and two.

I need to go back and re-evaluate what made me townread weapons and eclipse D1 because agreeable cases against them are building fast and furiously but I recall thinking eclipse was surefire to be town D1 and weapons to be likely town. A problem I have with eclipse is that her quote walls are huge and that is a big turn off for me.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

15 minutes ago, Omega. said:

So after Town lynches Bartozio with role speculation being a part of that suspicion, you're going to do it again, but with me?

Bartozio flipping Town is why your role is suspicious to Snike. Both Bartozio and you have roles that interfere with night action success, and Snike speculates that one might be Town, and the other might be scum, and now that Bart is dead and flipped Town that logic would point to you being scum.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

3 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Bartozio flipping Town is why your role is suspicious to Snike. Both Bartozio and you have roles that interfere with night action success, and Snike speculates that one might be Town, and the other might be scum, and now that Bart is dead and flipped Town that logic would point to you being scum.

Yeah, no.

This is role madness. There are 22 slots. There are going to be roles, on the same team, that have similar functionality. What's next, if someone claims a role that has protective properties we're going to lynch Bibbon/Kaoz because he's a jailkeeper? SB/Iris are not some noob mods who are going to make black-and-white roles that can be easily outguessed. By that logic, let's just massclaim and win the game today because it'll be obvious how to determine who's scum and who isn't.

[Alette]

On 4/10/2018 at 3:57 PM, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

What made you go back and read your role pm? This is the most suspicious thing that’s happened so far imo.

##Vote: Bartozio

This vote is really bad with Bartozio flipping town