We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

[SullyMcGully]

OK, there are tornado warnings going off all around me right now. I'll continue trying to catch up, but I might not post tonight.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

Iris/SB just hosted a game with 4 doctors, AND a watcher. 2 doctors were scum together, 2 doctors were town, and then town had a watcher as well.

Trying to go at my slot off rolespec is trash, straight up. The mods literally have history of hosting games and being mindful enough of punishing town trying to outguess the setup which is what any mod worth their salt will do. I'm not going to put up with bad pushes that deprives people of accountability; it makes it easy for scum to push me and then when I flip town people just say, "Whoops well I thought he couldn't coexist with Bartozio with that role" and you get nothing from it.

[SullyMcGully]

Can somebody link me a Refa!scum game? I'm not sure how he plays as mafia. Also, it seems my internet is dying. Sorry.

[Refa]

I've actually never rolled mafia in my life.

[Alette]

2 minutes ago, Refa said:

I've actually never rolled mafia in my life.

I don't believe this refa

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

3 minutes ago, Alette said:

This vote is really bad with Bartozio flipping town

How so? After the specific post you linked to, Weapons unvoted and voted someone else, before eventually settling back on Bartozio near the end of Day 1. Combined with the fact that it was still early in Day 1, that just looked like a pressure vote to me. Could you please explain?

10 minutes ago, Omega. said:

Yeah, no.

This is role madness. There are 22 slots. There are going to be roles, on the same team, that have similar functionality. What's next, if someone claims a role that has protective properties we're going to lynch Bibbon/Kaoz because he's a jailkeeper? SB/Iris are not some noob mods who are going to make black-and-white roles that can be easily outguessed. By that logic, let's just massclaim and win the game today because it'll be obvious how to determine who's scum and who isn't.

Fair enough to me, especially since I'm not familiar enough with role setup on here to judge, but Snike will respond again when he gets on.

[SullyMcGully]

@Snike I wasn't thinking about you when I was talking about the Athena wagon, I was thinking about Refa. I must have missed where he started townreading him.

[Snike]

Why would scum!me want to move off of town!Athena at the end of day? Like, really; I mean IG you could argue the bartozio role is anti-scum but since it's public scum!me could just avoid it or send in a by a non-important scummember to off it; Networker would be a threat bc town could potentially get organized or trap scum in oc 1v1 settings if the other networker was scum. Even an NL would be debatably better because then we could pick up the wagons the next day without anything useful learned from the flip.

WIFOM is at play here obviously but then there's also the fact that I would draw more attention here for posting.

Omega my vote's on Athena; I'm listing why I still scumread that slot this is being blown out of proportion.

eclipse is likelier town than scum here, partially because of the mayor claim but more than that I don't think her cases have been bad. It's a hard thing to put into words.

I also said this which you cut out:

Quote

On explaining eclipse: I don't find at least initially she explains a lot. She points but like detailed explanations are not something that I associate with her play.

Like yeah I'm using meta but tonally also it doesn't mean it's not valid!! I had the same problem with the bibbons/fable duo earlier on and i get the frustration but you can't just discredit that.

Walrein's last game he flaked as town; it's kinda a meme that he's scum when he flakes but it's really NAI.

@Refa oh bullshit this was from page 35:

 

On 4/14/2018 at 1:51 AM, Snike said:

@BBM @SullyMcGully

  Reveal hidden contents

Fenrir Aesir - I felt like fenrir was good eod1 but I want to see more

athena_57 - scum; read my posts

BBM- Was null-town but I feel stronger about him being town rn

Bibbon- I'm pretty sure I know her role; I think probably same alignment as fable; needs to out the secret scumread.

Gaius-  Are you there? Can you hear us? We'll give you e-sugar if you show up

eclipse- town imo; read her page 23 for another point against athena not mentioned in my cases

Sully-why did you claim kirsche had a night action?

Fable- I think probably same alignment as bibbon; had better push mack in their scumchat

Jaybee- Had him at null while I was coming into this phase but I also hadn't read him; IMO scum if you listen to BBM's case which I think is solid :okhand:

Junko- null-scum; I thought there was room for improvement and again I caught him lurking at dl

Marth- I don't even know; in retrospect was right about bartozio but calling my stuff faked w/o addressing content is ;/

Mack- slot subbed but I think it's scum based off of recent stuff; willing to wait to see what mack does

Snike + SatsumaFSoySoy  scumbuddies imo

Refa- I can't read him for the life of me because sometimes I can follow his stuff but sometimes I just can't follow the yellow brick road. I'd like to think townie but null.

Shinori-  reminds me of last game a little where he bodied my scumteam. I'm not seeing the scumnori case.

Via- town imo; insomniac use was really effective and allowed for a smooth transition into the day

Walrein- COME BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK- hesitant to jump on the flake = scumwagon because I liked their early but it's a meta read for a raisin.

Weapons-I don't know how to read him bc he's Weaponsing but in between the longform content is throwing me off. I don't think his tracker claim was anything other than a meme after what everyone thought was a tracker claim from sully; I didn't take it seriously

zeus_12 - why is this slot a thing?

Zkirsche- I was leaning town going into this phase but sats + the misrep are making me reconsider. Null rn

I agree with Eury being obvtown; my shortlist for n1 predictions was again via eury eclipse so the doc going onto eury over the other two would be unlikely IMO.

 

Like yeah tldr stuff but at the same time I have had opinions and I'm trying to get people in on stuff; I also engaged with BBM (concerned athena but it's still regarding) JB's case And you were giving me flak on that at the start of the phase.

And I backed off nightmare after I had some time to sit;  This is because it's probably going to die since it's a protective claim The junko stuff by mack is still ??? but I've gone on record  by saying I don't want that lynch today.

This is a scum push.

Like, I feel like the game over the past day has 180'd general consensus-wise in thread after the sub ins and I don't find the stuff compelling at all, which makes me think it's scum motivated.

And like, let's assume refa's scum: This makes more sense as to why Scum!Athena networked there because it would be putting a usually townie player in a qt with presumed town and they could be more easily persuaded to fall under his sway.

This would also explain the improvement of the quality of posts by athena;

compare this (page 24)

 

On 4/12/2018 at 4:01 PM, athena_57 said:

I mostly stand by my previous reads from 21, with a few exceptions

Marths roleclaim makes him slightly more likely to be town in my eyes.

Bartozio's post was... disappointing to be honest, I was hoping for more.

Zeus's post was something I guess? A bit passive and not too impressive, but better.

 

Let me get this clear, you want me to claim my role? Do others agree with this?

That's how it was intended, yes, with Marth>Zeus because I don't think a Zeus-lynch gives us anything. Not completely sure about that anymore though.

That vote will be moved when we have to consolidate, it's just there to show where I currently stand. I'll be around about 1 hour before phase end, that'll be 23:00 for me (I have an exam tomorrow so I'm checking out after that).

to this (page 42)

On 4/14/2018 at 5:16 PM, athena_57 said:

I don't really like JB's earlier post tbh, if inactivity is your best defense then I don't even know what to say, except that scum!you would be perfectly fine with staying offline as long as the wagon your on keeps growing and nobody's questioning you. Than his Bibbon post comes along, I still like his questions to Bibbon tbh, and then he ends with:

Where did that come from? You keep asking questions and accusing her, but you feel the need to leave yourself a way out without explaining what makes you feel better? Getting really bad vibes from that line tbh.

Quote 1 contains me saying I disagree with Barts specific reason for voting, but that I am voting Satsuma as well
Quote 2 contains me saying I disagree with Barts specific reason for voting, but that I am voting Satsuma as well

I cannot see why you think this is backpedaling at all, which is why I'm calling this a misrep or a really gross misunderstanding. I also don't see how I'm more backing away from him in the latter post than the former.

The network wasn't on weapons for a few reasons. First and foremost, I think Refa is a more active player and thus more likely to use a QT well. Yes, he had been less active day 1, but I felt improvement the last hours and the EIMM game he was in was about to end, which led me to conclude his activity would increase. Secondly, when I'm making a decision such as that I feel I should be trying to make up for my own blind spots by not only choosing someone I personally townread, but someone who's being townread universally, like a "wisdom of the crowds"-thing. That also improves the chance of the other connected person opening up to him.

You are unmentioned because you're null. What bothers me about you is, like you said, the nitpicking and overblowing of small things in my play. I am not certain however, whether you're scum trying to frame me and desperately searching my posts for things to do it with or a townie tunneling super hard under the assumption they found scum.
I could see it being both, which is why you're a member of the null pile, albeit a notable one.

I'm not conceding the point, I just feel the argument is over. He thinks that because not all of my townreads can be correct, I should start null/scum-reading one of them and I think that's BS as long as I don't know which one of them it is. Not much more to be said.

 

They don't strike me as a natural evolution of a player's posting style within 72 hours or so.

I was thinking it might be someone like BBM but I am thinking now refa could also be responsible.

@Omega slippery slope wtf;  I'm not saying that's the entire reason for my suspicion but it has a factor.

I'm not comfortable with a junko lynch anymore fwiw even if he's been flaky because now I'm super reading these two as scum.

I'll get a reads post out in a little while.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

I'm not saying your use of meta with eclipse is invalid Snike, in fact I wanted your opinion of her because I think it IS valid!

You're postulating that athena networked Refa so he could be coached. I don't get it though, don't scum here have daychat? I could have sworn Refa/I talked over discord during the dayphase when we rolled scum a while back.

[Snike]

@Refa Like another thing is you think I'm scum when I literally claimed godfather as role name. Why would I claim role miller as scum godfather when that would draw attention to me? Are you saying that mafia would know there's a town rolecop and plan accordingly? Why wouldn't I just claim framed if I ever got inspected?

And there's the other stuff like you claiming I backed off of the athena lynch d1 when I didn't really; and that bizarre network bit. Latter could be misreading but w/ this and the satsuma chainsaw thing (which I think calling someone chainsawing means that they're suspicious) these misreads are awfully convenient to throw suspicion onto my slot.

 

[Snike]

No i'm saying athena networked him w/ whoever so that refa could put on the charm in qt. The coaching is a separate thing.

[SullyMcGully]

OK, I'm getting lost reading all of this.

Refa doesn't really seem reactionary enough to be scum, like, he's been consistently producing decent material without being badgered to do so. Maybe he's just an amazing scum player and no one can ever tell the difference 'cuz he plays it so cool. That's why I wish I had some meta to look over.

And could somebody please tell me what the flip is a chainsaw?

[Mackc2]

Sorry about flaking, this game is a lot of effort for me so I tend to procrastinate. I'll see what I missed now 

[Snike]

Chainsaw is when you defend another player by attacking the player who is making the accusations

Rein: I think SB's scum because x y z

Iris: Rein is wrong, Rein is scum scum because  x y z a

This is well oversimplifying it, but Iris would be chainsawing SB here.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

Ah. Yeah, that makes sense, that'd actually be a really sick play. I'd try to get Refa to manipulate people via that ability if he was my scumbuddy too lol. As for the gamestate flipping, well, you/eclipse/Via/Walrein were running this game D1 but you've all fell off in terms of post quantity, though I see you're coming back now.

Eh, still think Junko's scum and there's a scum between him/kirsche.

Refa, I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on BBM's latest posts though would appreciate you not mentioning it until after Shinori responds to me.

kirsche, the main thing about Nightmare's post was that he said "everybody else is null" after he gave SEVERAL reads that were essentially null. It has a self-awareness to it that makes me suspicious.

[Mackc2]

On 15/04/2018 at 12:21 PM, Vi-astra said:

mack if I were a third party why would I claim my role the way I did. if you've read only my content today I'd be like meh at you coming to that conclusion because I have been playing like shit today but really?

I thought you claimed as a third party, my bad must have misread something. 

Someone asked me about Junko, my opinion is that he is probably busy but the few posts he made seem to be pretty good (more effort than mine at least I will give him that), I haven't read anything from his sub yet 

[Snike]

Mack why aren't you talking in quicktopic with Fable?

 

Is it ok if my reads posts limits stuff to like 2-3 sentences per slot max? It's not laziness it's more I want to do something other than play mafia all night

[Shinori]

@Omega.I'm about to head to bed since I have to be up in about 8 hours and I want to sleep before work.  I'm also not sure when phase end is but I think I should have enough time to respond tomorrow when I get off work.  In case I forget please try to remind me tomorrow afternoon so I can find the post with all the BBM quotes.  Page 53.

[Refa]

1 minute ago, SullyMcGully said:

@Snike I wasn't thinking about you when I was talking about the Athena wagon, I was thinking about Refa. I must have missed where he started townreading him.

I reread the whole game, so it was when I was doing that.  Basically, it felt like my issues with the slot were either not as significant (his Zeus interactions) or cleared up by him.

1 minute ago, Snike said:

Why would scum!me want to move off of town!Athena at the end of day? Like, really; I mean IG you could argue the bartozio role is anti-scum but since it's public scum!me could just avoid it or send in a by a non-important scummember to off it; Networker would be a threat bc town could potentially get organized or trap scum in oc 1v1 settings if the other networker was scum. Even an NL would be debatably better because then we could pick up the wagons the next day without anything useful learned from the flip.

@Refa oh bullshit this was from page 35:

Like yeah tldr stuff but at the same time I have had opinions and I'm trying to get people in on stuff; I also engaged with BBM (concerned athena but it's still regarding) JB's case And you were giving me flak on that at the start of the phase.

And I backed off nightmare after I had some time to sit;  This is because it's probably going to die since it's a protective claim The junko stuff by mack is still ??? but I've gone on record  by saying I don't want that lynch today.

This is a scum push.

Like, I feel like the game over the past day has 180'd general consensus-wise in thread after the sub ins and I don't find the stuff compelling at all, which makes me think it's scum motivated.

And like, let's assume refa's scum: This makes more sense as to why Scum!Athena networked there because it would be putting a usually townie player in a qt with presumed town and they could be more easily persuaded to fall under his sway.

This would also explain the improvement of the quality of posts by athena;

compare this (page 24)

to this (page 42)

They don't strike me as a natural evolution of a player's posting style within 72 hours or so.

I was thinking it might be someone like BBM but I am thinking now refa could also be responsible.

Because Athena wasn't getting lynched?  Scum wants lynches too lol.

I don't really get how that post disproves my point.  A lot of your opinions are just short comments which uh doesn't help.  For example, take a look at Junk.  You have him as null scum for one minor thing but don't bother to further your analysis any.  From my understanding,  your JB case is sheeped from BBM (which is fine WRT your opinions), and I dunno...it's probably fine?  I don't remember having any issues w/your JB push.

I'm never getting lynched this game lol.

Bolded seems to be paranoia for paranoia's sake, which is bad.  You're not even calling anyone specific out here.

Okay.  I know I'm town though, and thus Athena networking me seems like a town move.

I was also around the whole game, so it's super scummy that you're like "Refa coached him" when I would have been coaching him from the beginning of the game if that was the case.  I also don't like how you're brushing off an improvement in his posts as "well, that's probably because he was coached, still scum!".

1 minute ago, Snike said:

@Refa Like another thing is you think I'm scum when I literally claimed godfather as role name. Why would I claim role miller as scum godfather when that would draw attention to me? Are you saying that mafia would know there's a town rolecop and plan accordingly? Why wouldn't I just claim framed if I ever got inspected?

And there's the other stuff like you claiming I backed off of the athena lynch d1 when I didn't really; and that bizarre network bit. Latter could be misreading but w/ this and the satsuma chainsaw thing (which I think calling someone chainsawing means that they're suspicious) these misreads are awfully convenient to throw suspicion onto my slot.

If you're scum, that's your fakeclaim lol.  I think the claim is more likely to come from town but I really don't like your pushes.

Where did I say you backed off of your Athena lynch D1?  I don't see it in my recent reads post, so it doesn't factor onto my scumread on you at any rate.  Man, if scum!me wanted a convenient scumread, picking one of the highest content posters seems like a terrible idea.

1 minute ago, Snike said:

Is it ok if my reads posts limits stuff to like 2-3 sentences per slot max? It's not laziness it's more I want to do something other than play mafia all night

That's fine for town/null reads, less acceptable for scum reads.

[Mackc2]

I'm lazy, plain and simple, I haven't looked at the game since my last post 

[Mackc2]

Also a conversation is two ways, Fable has not posted anything in the QT either, and the only use I could see for a QT is to bounce ideas, which I can probably do better in thread where everyone can see it anyway. 

[Snike]

5 minutes ago, Refa said:

I reread the whole game, so it was when I was doing that.  Basically, it felt like my issues with the slot were either not as significant (his Zeus interactions) or cleared up by him.

Because Athena wasn't getting lynched?  Scum wants lynches too lol.

I don't really get how that post disproves my point.  A lot of your opinions are just short comments which uh doesn't help.  For example, take a look at Junk.  You have him as null scum for one minor thing but don't bother to further your analysis any.  From my understanding,  your JB case is sheeped from BBM (which is fine WRT your opinions), and I dunno...it's probably fine?  I don't remember having any issues w/your JB push.

I'm never getting lynched this game lol.

Bolded seems to be paranoia for paranoia's sake, which is bad.  You're not even calling anyone specific out here.

Okay.  I know I'm town though, and thus Athena networking me seems like a town move.

I was also around the whole game, so it's super scummy that you're like "Refa coached him" when I would have been coaching him from the beginning of the game if that was the case.  I also don't like how you're brushing off an improvement in his posts as "well, that's probably because he was coached, still scum!".

If you're scum, that's your fakeclaim lol.  I think the claim is more likely to come from town but I really don't like your pushes.

Where did I say you backed off of your Athena lynch D1?  I don't see it in my recent reads post, so it doesn't factor onto my scumread on you at any rate.  Man, if scum!me wanted a convenient scumread, picking one of the highest content posters seems like a terrible idea.

That's fine for town/null reads, less acceptable for scum reads.

 

18 hours ago, Refa said:

Marth and Kirsche wagons make me feel really uncomfortable (not as in "these wagons are scumdriven" but more as in "I would not lynch here today").  Wouldn't lynch either.  A vote for Athena is a vote for scum, and I'm very ambivalent on JB.  I don't want to have to consolidate when it seems like everyone has a mild suspicion on Athena and I feel much better about this vote than I would about Jaybee!

@Snike Why did you back down off the Athena lynch because his role is provable yesterday?

I feel like I should have been NK'd in that scenario, unless Nightmackc2 is scum.  IMO Eury had to have been onto something in her reads.  I tried reading her reads post to see and quit TBH, but her tl,dr; had all of Zeus, Fable, and Bibbon at the top, followed by Marth and Junko trailing far behind.  Makes me more suspicious of Fable honestly (I'd say Bibbon too but I can't see that claim coming from scum).

There's a reason REFA is an anagram for FEAR.  I was hoping for a more telling reaction from RAD...

I'm doing my reads post; will argue more later.

[Fable]

3 minutes ago, Mackc2 said:

Also a conversation is two ways, Fable has not posted anything in the QT either, and the only use I could see for a QT is to bounce ideas, which I can probably do better in thread where everyone can see it anyway. 

This is a lie, I've responded every time mack posted in the QT. 

[Mackc2]

Just now, Fable said:

This is a lie, I've responded every time mack posted in the QT. 

Responded yes, you have not initiated conversation. 

[Refa]

Yeah, and your response there made me realize I was wrong.  It happens when I’m reading 50 pages at once.  Again, I did not factor that into my scumread on you.