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We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

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15 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

Let's say they're scum and don't claim. N3 he gets docced/copped and the roles becomes blocked. What's he going to say then? I don't think it's risky for scum!ascetic to claim at all, on the contrary.

Why didn't we hear this earlier (question directed at satsuma ofc)

I wasn't aware I had to or should. The usual policy of where I play is unveil as little as possible until necessary. Shinori said this place isn't actually open about role details like I thought and saw, so I just kept quiet about it.

Going off of that, Dancer/Hooker would still be a valid explanation if he wantes to lie, and even then, if he mentioned being Ascetic later on when it came up, I thought it'd be fine. The more you say early on, the contradictions can come out, after all.

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I wanna retract my V lean on weapons.  He had one post directed at Bartozio where jumped on him for reading his role PM that felt really overblown to me 

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21 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

I wasn't aware I had to or should. The usual policy of where I play is unveil as little as possible until necessary. Shinori said this place isn't actually open about role details like I thought and saw, so I just kept quiet about it.

Going off of that, Dancer/Hooker would still be a valid explanation if he wantes to lie, and even then, if he mentioned being Ascetic later on when it came up, I thought it'd be fine. The more you say early on, the contradictions can come out, after all.

"Gee, everyone who targeted Bart must've been hooked".  Once massclaim comes around, Bart would be in hot water.

Hi chew toy!  Normally, this is where I vote you, but I'm a mayor.  Instead, have this:

This sword isn't just for show, Chew Toy!

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I still will consolidate on zeus but I got a stronger feeling marth is scum. I read through page 15 and I have no idea if newbscum would play like this but I could also see scum!zeus ignoring his scumbuddies being frustrated with him just as much as he's been playing uncooperative town (because whenever I see this kind of play my first instinct is to think "wouldn't his scumbuddies be trying to coach him" but that might be a flawed way to think here)

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5 minutes ago, Fable said:

I wanna retract my V lean on weapons.  He had one post directed at Bartozio where jumped on him for reading his role PM that felt really overblown to me 

Cause it probably wasn't clear, that was implied to be tagged onto the "scum ascetic claimed in a similar manner last game" thing that was brought up, which was the bigger reason. And the last game is also why I'm leaning more scum on athena; I think Bibbon said athena was newbtown or something, but athena is very good for a new player and has done at least as well last game as compared to this one. It's just there are similarities in his play that ping me and that's also why I asked for self meta. To that effect, I'm not sold on his response of that he'd play the same. @athena_57, do you really not find anything different between your play this game and the last?

27 minutes ago, Reinfleche said:

I'm an IO you fuckwits

Confirmed not town, let's wagon this.

@Bartozio, what would you say accounts for your difference in town between this game and the last?

The last three pages are a mess, and I still don't really want to lynch zeus, but would recommending vigging. Also I find it weird that Snike subbed into the hydra slot when there's a couple other players who haven't posted, but that doesn't really directly have anything to do with the game.

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2 minutes ago, eclipse said:

"Gee, everyone who targeted Bart must've been hooked".  Once massclaim comes around, Bart would be in hot water.

Hi chew toy!  Normally, this is where I vote you, but I'm a mayor.  Instead, have this:

This sword isn't just for show, Chew Toy!

Well, now we've went from one cop visit to literally every Townie visiting. You can't just change the condition of the hypothetical to take down my answer to the original. Of course my answer will change in accordance too (i.e. he will have to claim Ascetic with no choice).

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4 hours ago, Zkirsche said:

What is really annoying is how little people seem to want to comment/draw from it. Shinori just dismissed it and Walrein/Nightmare didn't even comment on it or the resulting cases on me. They don't talk about about what they agree/disagree with and why in terms of logic or whatever. Look at Refa, he has said what he thinks of my interpretation, what his interpretation is (the type of townie he thinks BBM is) and his thoughts on me as a result of that interpretation. That is a very townie analysis. By not even attempting any kind of interaction with that you're avoiding scumhutning/analysis so I want to ask @Shinori @Nightmare in particular why the above interpretation on BBM's actions in the early game is not agreeable, if my case comes from scum and why. Then if you woudl be so kind as to do the same for the cases on me that would be fantastic. Walrein is defo town so it's not enough to convict someone alone but it's annoying.

The worst offender is Nightmare who is voting me on gut without making these comments. He has said that he doesn't agree with my case (or isn't convinced at least) but doesn't explain why or why that means I'm scum. He is also voting me only after being prodded which I don't appreciate. Is anyone else scum? Anything on me more than just gut?

Yes, actually. I don't think your case on BBM makes you 100% scum, since it doesn't seem tunnelly enough. It was bothering me because it looked like you were doubling down on your case based on not much but tenuous (though not entirely unjustified, I'll admit) reads, and your analysis of his behaviour read as nitpicky to me more than anything else (but that might just be me not being aware of the greater meta of the universe). Of minor note is that I wasn't particularly fond of your tone, but your recent post reads more townish to me.

Regarding the vote, I did mention that I was already going to post. BBM just happened to do it before I did. Anyway, with that out of the way...

##Unvote

I think the pressure cooker did its work.

Current reads:

zeus I'm not entirely convinced on. His dismissive and flippant attitude really doesn't win him any points, but like others said he could just be an inexperienced town. The vig comment has me thinking though. Is that a softclaim?

Bibbon's reading town to me. She's been contributing a fair bit of content and sparking discussion, and the tone of her posts seem pretty good as well. Who knows, maybe that's actually scum Bibbon and I'm unaware of the greater meta.

athena has pulled himself out of suspicion for me for the most part. I won't say 100%, but leaning town for him. His recent content has been quite alright.

Fable's definitely leaning town for me.

The case on Marth being scum doesn't have me convinced all the way, but I will admit he's not doing much to get it off him. I'd like to see his defence in light of recent events.

Satsuma's case is proving to be interesting. Will watch how it unfolds before judging.

JB made a post, but it feels more like he did it out of obligation to escape the scum reads. Not feeling good about him. At best it's just bad play for a town.

Via seems town to me, and he's making some good reads that I agree with.

BBM also seems town, but there's something lacklustre about his posts in general.

Not much to say on everyone else.

##Vote: JB

This is the best use of my vote right now, I feel like.

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9 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Well, now we've went from one cop visit to literally every Townie visiting. You can't just change the condition of the hypothetical to take down my answer to the original. Of course my answer will change in accordance too (i.e. he will have to claim Ascetic with no choice).

Way to take my post out of context.

1 minute ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

So what's the Marth case? I'm not really seeing it?

Mine is that he claims to need time to read up on various people, yet has enough time to make trivial comments.  He also thinks zeus is newbscum, and has his vote on Junko instead.

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10 minutes ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

Cause it probably wasn't clear, that was implied to be tagged onto the "scum ascetic claimed in a similar manner last game" thing that was brought up, which was the bigger reason. And the last game is also why I'm leaning more scum on athena; I think Bibbon said athena was newbtown or something, but athena is very good for a new player and has done at least as well last game as compared to this one. It's just there are similarities in his play that ping me and that's also why I asked for self meta. To that effect, I'm not sold on his response of that he'd play the same. @athena_57, do you really not find anything different between your play this game and the last?

 

That seems like false equivalence? I don't what happened in w/e other game that happened in but in a vacuum I don't know how reading your role PM in a role madness game game with seemingly more complicated mechanics is anything other than NAI. As for the the "don't target me" comment I mean I could say the same thing that it wouldn't be beneficial to target me with anything  for raisins and I'm a villager so I'm not seeing that as a solid reason either to wolf read bartozio. 

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yeah I think it's weird how marth came in going "I agree zeus is probably newbscum" along with some half-baked player analysis, then came back claiming he forgot to vote and voted junko which is inconsistent with his previous statements

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also in the post he claimed he forgot to vote he still didn't vote anyway even though he already had reason enough to vote at the time.

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5 minutes ago, Fable said:

That seems like false equivalence? I don't what happened in w/e other game that happened in but in a vacuum I don't know how reading your role PM in a role madness game game with seemingly more complicated mechanics is anything other than NAI. As for the the "don't target me" comment I mean I could say the same thing that it wouldn't be beneficial to target me with anything  for raisins and I'm a villager so I'm not seeing that as a solid reason either to wolf read bartozio. 

I said before that that wasn't really a good reason, I just didn't really think it through yesterday. The whole "don't target me" thing is cause sometimes (like last game) scum gets rolled ascetic or whatever and they forget that they should claim at the beginning of the game, but do realize later, maybe if a scumbuddy told them, and try to fit that in there. Otherwise, it would be very suspicious if it came time for them to claim and they went with some negative utility role that should've been outed from the start.

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Went back and skimmed Marth a bit. I don't think his voting over Junko over zeus is that scummy since he did say that zeus's alignment would become more clear as time passes, which I say sometimes. I think his reads in general show some thinking out of things and are also okay. The case on Junko did stand out though, as it seems a bit like he picked Junko to read specifically and then came up with a case on him, and the reasoning of Junko being wish-washy with quotes pulled out doesn't feel that strong. Overall though, I don't see enough for me to move him past null to scum.

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2 minutes ago, Shinori said:

@eclipseDid you actually do something or was that a reaction test?

Tee-hee~!

(I already claimed my role, and you know what I normally do when I see my chew toy in a game)

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so many posts. i can't believe rein actually wasn't even playing lmao. people being bothered with my vote on him makes more sense now!! i blame whoever voted him before me

i don't really like bibbon's past couple pages at all. she kept saying like "yeah i'm going to content don't worry!!!" and then ended up just voting zeus for reasons that just felt really shallow and were regarding his posts over those last couple pages. she didn't actually provide any of the content she said she was working on and never did any kind of analysis of the athena wagon.

there actually was more of a sentiment against athena than I thought originally, so her choosing to defend him is fine, but the way she did it makes me think she's more scum whiteknighting town because it didn't seem like she was responding to any cases directly or trying to change peoples minds about him.

##Vote: Bibbon[/b[

via's marth case looks good to me. I'm down to vote there too if people don't want to sheep me on bibbon because I hate indian people. rereading his junko case it just seems kind of weak and not really looking at context or anything. also I know that IST is a bad mafia timezone but there were still a couple other people around while he was posting and it didn't seem like he was really trying to engage other people. i guess kirsche ended up sheeping his junko case but eh it just sort of feels kind of like a votepark on someone who wasn't really at the center of attention. it also feels like half his case is just that he doesn't agree with junko's read on kirsche even though he says several times that he thinks junko's case is okay.

people have made some bartozio cases and idk they've kinda felt too focused on bart forgetting to claim. i think that's kind of null tbh. bart does feel super unmemorable though.

i'm not down to lynch zeus at all. he's even more classic lynchbait than satsuma. i think he'd have to be engaging in a lot of refuge in audacity to not even try coming up with content if he's scum. i also think that his buddies would have bailed him out and thrown him some bones with regards to some stuff to say.

the rein thing made me look at the playerlist again and I'm not sure elie, earendil, or animearts have posted since RVS, or at all.

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so many posts. i can't believe rein actually wasn't even playing lmao. people being bothered with my vote on him makes more sense now!! i blame whoever voted him before me

i don't really like bibbon's past couple pages at all. she kept saying like "yeah i'm going to content don't worry!!!" and then ended up just voting zeus for reasons that just felt really shallow and were regarding his posts over those last couple pages. she didn't actually provide any of the content she said she was working on and never did any kind of analysis of the athena wagon.

there actually was more of a sentiment against athena than I thought originally, so her choosing to defend him is fine, but the way she did it makes me think she's more scum whiteknighting town because it didn't seem like she was responding to any cases directly or trying to change peoples minds about him.

via's marth case looks good to me. I'm down to vote there if necessary. rereading his junko case it just seems kind of weak and not really looking at context or anything? also I know that IST is a bad mafia timezone but there were still a couple other people around while he was posting and it didn't seem like he was really trying to engage other people at all? i guess kirsche ended up sheeping his junko case but eh it just sort of feels kind of like a votepark on someone who wasn't really at the center of attention.

i'm not down to lynch zeus at all. he's even more classic lynchbait than satsuma. i think he'd have to be engaging in a lot of refuge in audacity to not even try coming up with content if he's scum. i also think that his buddies would have bailed him out and thrown him some bones with regards to some stuff to say.

the rein thing made me look at the playerlist again and I'm not sure elie, earendil, or animearts have posted since RVS, or at all?

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my bad the SF post editor sucks and saved the post I made earlier instead of my new post but luckily I had that one saved elsewhere:

sucks that both the indian people are probably asleep now and I won't hear from them for a while oh well.

fwiw I won't be around much tomorrow although I think I will be there just before phase end. we need to start consolidating since we need 8 votes for a lynch. i know I have a hipster vote right now but I think more people should vote with me!! i'll switch to marth otherwise before i sleep.

I've explained why I don't really want to lynch the Satsuma/Snike slot or the zeus slot.

I'd probably consolidate on Bartozio if I had to but it seems like the wagon is 1 RVS vote and two votes that were made super long ago (Weapons and Shinori). the wagon and case on him feels outdated, maybe because he hasn't posted in a while. weapons/shinori do you guys still think he's the scummiest?

fable is in a similar camp to bart where I'd probably vote him if I had to, but he's probably lower priority than bart for me. mainly because bart's play feels vaguely like p5 mafia to me.

not feeling like lynching kirsche or junko today and it doesn't really seem like many other people are either so the people voting there should probably switch soon.

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7 minutes ago, Fable said:

Bibbon doesn't whiteknight as a wolf IME, I'm very confidant she's a villager this game. 

which site are you guys from, smogon?

how does bibbon normally play as scum?

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1 minute ago, BBM said:

which site are you guys from, smogon?

how does bibbon normally play as scum?

Personality Cafe/Mafia Universe

Bibbon has very few wolf games but from what I can tell she has two modes as a wolf which is either

1. Lurk like crazy and be as wishy-washy as possible. 

2. Post a lot and make a firm wolf read and push it hard to the point where you're dumb if you don't agree with her. 

There's enough nuance to her posts that I think she's out of her wolf range as I know it. 

 

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