We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

[Fable]

1 minute ago, Refa said:

Athena, still catching up on Page 19, but fair enough on your lynch priority.

@Fable Assuming Zeus is off the table, who would you want to lynch today and why?

I don't feel super strongly about anyone else but Bartozio/Weapons/Nightmare/BBM are all lagging behind for me. 

[Refa]

Just now, Fable said:

I don't feel super strongly about anyone else but Bartozio/Weapons/Nightmare/BBM are all lagging behind for me. 

Can you explain those?  I can get Bartozio/Weapons but I'm pretty neutral on Nightmare and BBM seemed okay to me.  I don't care if the reasoning is super strong, it'll help my own reads.

[Mystic Arcanum]

I don't like Athena's post at the top of  page 7 either. It's a very sudden shift from the aggressive "here's your chance at redemption" tone up to that point into a very forgiving post where they unvote Soysoy and take the comment on Soysoy having nothing at face value, even though (a) they mention not being satisfied and (b) Soysoy not having much was the main problem for which Athena voted them in the first place. 

I don't get why you'd unvote there without placing your vote somewhere else, considering that you evidently weren't satisfied with the response and also had another slot you disliked. There's no reason to not use your vote there.

[Fable]

8 minutes ago, Refa said:

Can you explain those?  I can get Bartozio/Weapons but I'm pretty neutral on Nightmare and BBM seemed okay to me.  I don't care if the reasoning is super strong, it'll help my own reads.

Nightmare's posts feel purposefully inoffensive to me is the best way to put it? Like there's nothing wrong with them but they just don't really get at anything I guess? I'd like to see him push at something.

BBM I just disagree with a lot. Like the "bibbon didn't do that thing she never said she would do" bit just irks me and seems like a manufactured reason to wolf read someone. 

[Mystic Arcanum]

Before I forget btw @Walreinwhat was the point in not just explaining your problem with Athena when you voted them?

[Refa]

10 hours ago, Snike said:

@Refa What about me/Satsuma? You defaulted on us last time which is why the vote isn't on Bartozio, so has that changed?

I was still scumreading you at the time, but Satsuma doesn't feel like someone I've got a good grasp on whereas Bartozio's posts seemed very scum motivated.  Even his larger posts didn't really do it for me, which is pretty bad considering those usually make me flip my reads.

Someone help me read Weapons, anybody.  My gut is that he's scum but then he does things and I'm like "would scum really do that?".

I'd sheep Kirsche's Junk read here.  Still reserved about it because it's so contradictory to his usual playstyle but Junk's Kirsche vote is like really bad.  I mean, it was fine for the time but Kirsche has posted a lot since then and it hasn't been updated at all!

[Refa]

4 minutes ago, Fable said:

Nightmare's posts feel purposefully inoffensive to me is the best way to put it? Like there's nothing wrong with them but they just don't really get at anything I guess? I'd like to see him push at something.

BBM I just disagree with a lot. Like the "bibbon didn't do that thing she never said she would do" bit just irks me and seems like a manufactured reason to wolf read someone. 

Yeah, I can get those.  I should probably reread Nightmare but honestly I'll be too lazy to do so.

##Unvote

##Vote: Junk

Also preemptively sorry for three vote changes within an hour but the first one was when I was halfway caught up and not sure if I could make another post, Athena is...I don't see scum w/a wagon of four votes on them being like "yeah, I'm not going after the other guy" and I think his explanations were...okay (mostly null, but not scummy), and the Junk read is more substantive than my Bartozio read.

[Refa]

Town: BBM, Bibbon, eclipse, Fable, Satsuma/Snike, Via, Walrein, ZKirsche

Null: athena_57, Eurykins (I'm sorry, I'll read your wall post! I don't remember your other post bothering me), Jaybee, Marth, Nightmare, Shinori, Zeus

Scum: Bartozio, Junko, Weapons

Not Playing: Anime27Arts, Earendil, Elieson

My reads at the moment.  Feel free to ask for more detailed explanations on any of them, just making this so I can have my own thoughts organized lol.

[zeus_112]

18 hours ago, Snike said:

 

##Vote: Athena

Aforementioned gutread + I feel like the back and forth between him and zeus was really just padding instead of advancing the gamestate. I might be overly critical but esp. after Bard salt in brexitland the snark on unvote posts/lack of content is a warning sign. Rereading back now.

Satsuma get in our scum qt

the back and forth posts were probably to finally get me talking so he (and you guys) could get a more accurate read on me.

[zeus_112]

19 hours ago, Fable said:

##Vote: Zeus

nice content btw

[Refa]

Zeus, what are your thoughts on Marth? Junk?  Athena?

[zeus_112]

1 minute ago, Refa said:

Zeus, what are your thoughts on Marth? Junk?  Athena?

im currently caching up, im at page 17

[Fable]

1 minute ago, zeus_112 said:

nice content btw

Imagine what would happen if you actually read the game instead of making pointless snark comments. 

This isn't winning you any points. 

[Bartozio]

Okay I'm here, I'm actually here.

Honestly, I play one good game and everyone suddenly forgets I'm usually lurky. Can we go back to remembering my lurky playstyle and not voting me over it please? I get that it would be funny to make me the first misslynch in a game about memes, but seriously?

Okay, serious talk:

17 hours ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

 

@Bartozio, what would you say accounts for your difference in town between this game and the last?

Mostly it being weekend on D1, which means I had a lot more time to actually keep up with the game that day.

It would appear the replacement of one hydra head also got the other head moving, huh. I like both of their recent posts, so I don't really want to lynch them anymore.

##Unvote

@Eurykins Basicly, none of his content really felt towny to me, but I couldn't really point to something scummy either. That's kind of a cop out, but basicly his activity makes him seem towny while his tone read slightly scummy to me. Luckely, I found his interaction with Zeus easier to read.

Athena and Bibbon's push on Zeus felt to me like them trying to produce content by targetting someone who has trouble obtaining reads. I especially dislike how Athena keeps mixing it up with comments like "I'm only trying to help you" and "I think he's null" when all he's doing is commenting on how bad Zeus' posts are. Their context (right after Eclipse makes a similar remark) makes me think they are just there to make himself look good.

##Vote: Athena

Bibbon talking about how some of Zeus' comments are manipulative feels very far fetched to me. Considering he was being pushed to make a case, this feels very scummy to me.

@Refa You know I only get serious about big posts when I'm close to being lynched I'm somewhat suprised you suddenly don't like my Satsuma case. After I first explained it you found it sheepable, why is it suddenly a reason for you to scumread me (not your main reason, sure, but still a reason).

Only really skimmed things, will get back with more comments later, but I need to go now, so have this in advance.

 

[Refa]

2 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

Okay I'm here, I'm actually here.

Honestly, I play one good game and everyone suddenly forgets I'm usually lurky. Can we go back to remembering my lurky playstyle and not voting me over it please? I get that it would be funny to make me the first misslynch in a game about memes, but seriously?

Okay, serious talk:

Mostly it being weekend on D1, which means I had a lot more time to actually keep up with the game that day.

It would appear the replacement of one hydra head also got the other head moving, huh. I like both of their recent posts, so I don't really want to lynch them anymore.

##Unvote

@Eurykins Basicly, none of his content really felt towny to me, but I couldn't really point to something scummy either. That's kind of a cop out, but basicly his activity makes him seem towny while his tone read slightly scummy to me. Luckely, I found his interaction with Zeus easier to read.

Athena and Bibbon's push on Zeus felt to me like them trying to produce content by targetting someone who has trouble obtaining reads. I especially dislike how Athena keeps mixing it up with comments like "I'm only trying to help you" and "I think he's null" when all he's doing is commenting on how bad Zeus' posts are. Their context (right after Eclipse makes a similar remark) makes me think they are just there to make himself look good.

##Vote: Athena

Bibbon talking about how some of Zeus' comments are manipulative feels very far fetched to me. Considering he was being pushed to make a case, this feels very scummy to me.

@Refa You know I only get serious about big posts when I'm close to being lynched I'm somewhat suprised you suddenly don't like my Satsuma case. After I first explained it you found it sheepable, why is it suddenly a reason for you to scumread me (not your main reason, sure, but still a reason).

Only really skimmed things, will get back with more comments later, but I need to go now, so have this in advance.

What in particular do you like Snike/Satsuma's recent posts?

I don't get your Athena/Bibbon's reads...they seem weak.  Why does Scum!Athena look good with a null stance on Zeus?  Surely taking a more definitive stance would help him look better.  Bibbons is like...I don't get why that's scummy?

I don't like your followups to your Satsuma case.

[Bartozio]

Here again!

5 minutes ago, Refa said:

What in particular do you like Snike/Satsuma's recent posts?

Satsuma got more productive and is actually developing scumreads. Snike is just active with good reads I feel.

5 minutes ago, Refa said:

I don't get your Athena/Bibbon's reads...they seem weak.  Why does Scum!Athena look good with a null stance on Zeus?  Surely taking a more definitive stance would help him look better. 

Because scumreading people for being new and bad at developing scumreads looks scummy? I mean, you were blaming me for doing that to Satsuna at first. People were also reaching the consensus Zeus was null, instead of scum. With perfect knowledge, yes making a strong stance ad disagreeing would probably be townread more in the end, but that doesn't feel like a natural conclusion to come to as scum in that situation, especially not for someone new to the game.

5 minutes ago, Refa said:

Bibbons is like...I don't get why that's scummy?

You don't get why painting something trivial off as scummy when you're in desperate need for a read is scummy? Why it's less likely to come from someone trying to solve the game, and more from someone who just wants to survive as long as possible?

5 minutes ago, Refa said:

I don't like your followups to your Satsuma case.

2 hours ago, Refa said:

Arguing that it's normal to not have reads does not make Satsuma scum.

I feel like this is very much regarding the orginal case, not any follow up I made.

[BBM]

Agree with refa that bart's satsuma follow up is iffy. Don't have the time to follow up to check if athena actually did what bart is saying he did, but if he did then I do think there's scum intent there because pushing a lynch while saying someone is null is scummy.

Athena vote from bart feels conveniently timed though

I'm not really understanding why people think marth's junko case is acceptable. It's really crappy and based more on semantics of how junko was wording his sentences than junko actually being wishy-washy. i'm phoneposting so i cant go back and link my post detailing why but please go back and find it. I think that kirsche's junko content is a lot better than marths. To me at least that's more the reason I'm scumreading him, not him voting junko instead of someone else.

[Bluedoom]

I know I'm a wagon but I don't feel like voting Bartozio in a not-me-over-me here because I'm really not getting scumvibes from his cases, in the previous game he kept pushing a clarinets and Eury lynch and even tried getting people to lynch clarinets over Eury as town event thought clarinets was an easy target, I disagree with BBM saying that Bartozio picking easy targets means he's mafia, I think his logic actually checks out behind his case even though I haven't seen him post a lot since my last post.

 

I thought athena was scum until that 180 where he doesn't want to vote me. I feel like scum!athena just hops on to the wagon here? Not taking the opportunity seems more likely to come from town.

-I'd rather vote zeus over soy soy given that zeus' posts are not conducive to scumhunting and he reacts in a manner I feel scum would react. Like he reacts as if he is very self-conscious about whatever people scumread him for.

[Bluedoom]

IMO most of these wagons suck.

[zeus_112]

21 minutes ago, Refa said:

What in particular do you like Snike/Satsuma's recent posts?

I don't get your Athena/Bibbon's reads...they seem weak.  Why does Scum!Athena look good with a null stance on Zeus?  Surely taking a more definitive stance would help him look better.  Bibbons is like...I don't get why that's scummy?

I don't like your followups to your Satsuma case.

##Unvote  ##Vote: Bibbon

I feel like he's overdoing the "zeus is manipulative" thing. I would like to claim I'm smart enough to do that, but I aint.

Feelings on athena: He doesn't look like scum to me. When some thought he was "putting oil on the fire" I thought he was trying to get me talking some things that did make sense.

Feelings on marth: I really don't see why people vote him, could someone please explain..

Feelings on fable: Chaged my mind, sorry man :) I do trust him after reading his post at me and reading what he said afterwards.

Feelings on junk: I'm sorry I don't really know about him. Doesn't seem scum to me though

Feelings on Satsuma: As seemingly most of you he's kinda off my radar. Didn't seem distracting/scummy in his last posts

Feelings on Bartiozo: Same as Satsuma, he was one of my primarries but I'll have to see some more off his coming posts to be sure about that. For now he's not scum to me

[eclipse]

Dammit, I lost my post, and I'm in a hurry.

I did a check on Bart's stuff, and he has two content posts total.  Of them, one explains his logic on Satsuma, and someone needs to tell me why it's scummy.  My thought is that he would've gone after zeus, who was a lot more inactive at the time.  The second content post is on page 23.  Athena has issues, but Bart's justification for his vote is pretty weak.  I'm null on Bart's slot.

Marth hasn't shown up.  Would've loved to press him for more stuff, but we're running out of time.  Still think his vote on Junko is bad for previously-stated reasons.

I want zeus out of the game as a matter of principle.  He's not helping town with his attitude/posts, and I don't see him being helpful in the future.  The longer a slot like this lives, the worse it'll get.

After sleeping on what Snike said, I doubted my read on Athena.  Then. . .

1 hour ago, athena_57 said:

Because I honestly don't see the case on him. If I'm understanding the votes correctly it's mostly because he said zeus was newbscum, only to vote Junko instead. I don't really think this is weird, as I can see the argument of thinking applying pressure on Junko is more likely to give results. He could be scumreading zeus more and still prefer to pressure Junko.
He's not been too active and has been a bit vague at times, but there are others acting worse imo.

Correct me if I'm missing something, but I think people are overreacting.

 

1 hour ago, athena_57 said:

 

See my post on page 21. Of the currently existing wagons I prefer Bartozio, but a good/bad defense from either him or Marth could change my mind.

Of the wagons that exist currently:
Bart > Marth > Zeus

The first post refers to Marth.  There's three posts between the two.  I've never seen ANYONE flip a read this fast.  Combined with the earlier tone things that were bugging me, and Snike's analysis. . .

##Vote: athena_57

Lynch priority:

athena = zeus > Marth >>> Bart, but I think zeus is more likely to be shot by a theoretical vig

[zeus_112]

uhm quoted the wrong one I think, sorry about that.

Bartiozos recent post seems fine to me. (I was typing when he posted)

[eclipse]

Oh, right.  Junko isn't even on my lynch radar.

[Athena_57]

8 minutes ago, BBM said:

Don't have the time to follow up to check if athena actually did what bart is saying he did, but if he did then I do think there's scum intent there because pushing a lynch while saying someone is null is scummy.

 

If you're referring to the "scumreading for newbplay", I didn't, because I'm nullreading him.

4 minutes ago, eclipse said:

The first post refers to Marth.  There's three posts between the two.  I've never seen ANYONE flip a read this fast.  Combined with the earlier tone things that were bugging me, and Snike's analysis. . .

 

I didn't flip? Marth is null. Zeus is null. But I'd like to see Zeus get vigged, not hanged.

[Refa]

@Magnificence Incarnate Just for clarification, did you deliberately choose not to claim or did you just forget?

I'll respond to the last few posts soon (sorry Bart for holding out on you), but I really wanted to get this answered ASAP.