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We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

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eh my character isn't really that related to role so in case you didn''t catch it when I said it at the start of the day, I'm Refa.

I thought eury was town but given that she made only a handful of posts

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eoD1*

I also want to hear more from Junko, who I saw lurking around deadline. I was going to flame him and Fable but then fable actually showed up.

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On 4/12/2018 at 9:55 AM, Zkirsche said:

Shinori also has been coasting hardcore, constantly trying in vain to get up to date is lame. Would like maybe some more reads because right now his content is focused mostly on responses. He did make a good post against Nightmare though.

This is what I felt was a misrep on me.  I don't think my entire gameplay has been based on responses, in fact I don't think I've really had much to respond to unless he solely means my responses to what OTHER people are doing.  I defintely don't think I've been coasting.

@WeaponsofMassConstructionI'll go check over some of that stuff now.

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On 4/12/2018 at 4:35 PM, Nightmare said:

If I had to say, I'm less bothered by athena for gut reasons (though the cases against him remain relevant, so it's not that I'm not bothered at all), and Bart's roleclaim makes me more suspicious than athena's for reasons already mentioned. I guess a Junk turbo isn't happening right now, and since there's only 30 minutes left...

##Unvote

##Vote: Bartozio

Fingers crossed it's a scum flip.

Looking at Nightmare's vote I kind of dislike it.  What about Bart's claim was worse than Athena's claim?  Especially if people are operating under the possibility that one of the co-networkers is scum as that idea was bounced around a bit.  He even admits that the cases are relevant but it's just gut that doesn't want him to vote for Athena.  Felt like he voted Bart based on Role alone while saying the cases on Athena were better.

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Also I've posted other stuff against nightmare previously but admittedly I waffled on that read and went from scum reading him to null but after the flip I'm leaning scum on him again.  But if he's getting a sub my vote on him does nothing at the moment so I'm gonna look into the other votes on the Wagon and see if I can find anything.

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whoops accidentally submitted the post too early. meant to say that eury was a weird kill given that she made only a handful of posts, even though I thought she was town. i probably need to reread some of the more obvtown people, sigh. alternatively she got killed for having good reads but I didn't read her posts very thoroughly so I don't even know what her reads were.

anyways I was too busy/demotivated over N1 to reread and I'm not really feeling most of my D1 scumreads anymore for various reasons, so it might take me a bit to vote. Day 2 is the worst.

I don't really see the point of voting Nightmare if he's subbing out.

@Lord Gaius were you following along with the game at all?

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Pretty sure you can't guess my role off of BBM but whatever.

On 4/12/2018 at 12:24 PM, Bartozio said:

The kill failing if the killer gets lynched would be incredibly broken, because it would mean Marth basicly can't get nightkilled as long as we trust his slot. (Any attempt would result in a scum lynch for us and a no-kill for scum). Even if the kill doesn't fade away, scum would still have to trade in a member to get him killed after he claimed.

As scum, he learns what players have targetting roles. I think watcher doesn't learn what effect targets them? Since it's role madness, he might not even immediatly know whether it's a good role or not.

Maybe I got something wrong, but I think the role makes more sense as scum actually.
 

##Unvote

##Vote: Marth

What do people think about this?  I kind of want to say "nope, I was right" but ugh fuck me gently with a chainsaw.

@Shinori Athena not voting Marth over himself didn't seem like a scum move to me.  The claim is kind of dodgy in that it seems...well, weak, but it's not enough to make me suspect him.

@zeus_112 I kind of hate your reads post because there's no reasoning just the end results.

@Snike Can you summarize your Athena case?  I remember his Zeus interactions bothering me but like nothing else of his content.

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What about the fact that Athena voted Bart > himself?  Or did he have an actual case on Bart before that?  I don't quite remember him talking too much about Bart but I easily could have missed it.

What's the difference between him not voting Marth over himself while voting Bart > Himself?

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4 minutes ago, BBM said:

anyways I was too busy/demotivated over N1 to reread and I'm not really feeling most of my D1 scumreads anymore for various reasons, so it might take me a bit to vote. Day 2 is the worst.

I'm not feeling any of my reads, by which I mean I literally don't remember most of them.  Via is town, Junk is scum, everyone else I don't even know. Speaking of...

##Vote: Junko

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Athena agreed with bart case starting early-mid yesterday page wise. I'll go grab my stuff from before but also add read the end of day 1 back and forth. It got me thinking he was 100% scum.

I really don't know where to stand w/ marth; I think that role's really strong as scum (and I was going to try and ML eury over just self delay last game) but I thought 90% that bart was scum. So here we are.

I agree with shinori that the kirsche accusation is unfair; tbh I think shinori's one of the townier players rn.

Not surprised by eury flip I was guessing her/eclipse/via for being deaths this phase tbh. Even if she didn't post too much, content was definitely in line w/ town eury.

 

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not feeling the Junko case. maybe bc he was defending me but I think I agreed with a lot of what he said, even if I didn't necessarily agree with the interpretation. eg I agreed that kirsche was taking my actions out of context even if I didn't think he was scum. 

I also think that the bit about him tunneling is not reeally true for most of the day. I do think the vote became more of a park/tunnel near the end, but there was only one post that I really objected with:

On 4/11/2018 at 10:08 PM, Junk said:

welp to start off I'm 99% sure i wasn't in cuphead mafia @eclipse haha so you may have gotten me confused with someone else.

So turns out I mainly missed page 18 not 17 and 18. Kirsche's new post doesn't change my mind. It's just null. Some stuff about bibbon (btw what do you actually think of the slot kirsche) and then a minor read on eclipse and his read on nightmare seems more like pressure to get him to talk which isn't significant.

For the rest of the page I pretty much said what BBM already said in my post and eclipse's logic is pretty good in regards to marth. Snike's posts about athena are also pretty good.

So yeah p18 in general just reaffirms my reads. 

PEDIT: unless i missed something are people voting bartozio based off a post ED1? 

 

i think he's kind of dismissive of kirsche's content here, especially because kirsche says that he finds bibbon more suspicious than me (so putting her as a third suspicion) and the nightmare read doesn't seem like just pressure to me.

I'd like to see more reads from Junko but yeah don't want to lynch him atm.

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I was hoping the kill would be me tbh even though nobody was townreading me. mafia is misery. alternatively I was hoping it would be refa so it would be like a N1 death by proxy.

I don't disagree with the Nightmare cases. I think everything people pointed out about flaws in his play is correct. I just don't know how much weight to give to any of it when Nightmare hasn't played in so long.

the nightmare claim :weary:

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On 4/12/2018 at 4:19 PM, Snike said:

This might be over the top but

tl;dr on athena; interaction with satsuma is bad, changes reads on bart w/o really elaborating (looks like distancing), does not scumhunt zeus (padding), is overly reactionary to the point where I find most of his content had to be pressed out of him, and lastly he just quote mined me on page 21 to undermine my point about Bartozio.

I am oversimplifying but yeah @Zkirsche

Here's the end of day 1 tl;dr.

In addition to this, he outright admitted the quote mine in the exchange at the end of day + was pretty clearly ignoring posts. It was like trying to pull a rotten tooth.

@Nightmare what do you mean by walkie talkie?

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@Snike Whoever has the role will understand, but basically I have a two-way, private conversation open with one other player here, who shall go unnamed. And yes @ your second post. The flavour is something about Marth being unlucky and Marth Isn't Allowed To Have Fun.

I'm too lazy to address them directly by quotes, but the cases on me are I think pretty weak as far as scum reading goes (advocates so far: kirsche, Shinori, athena, Via, kindasorta Snike). They're legitimate in terms of play style criticism because I haven't been putting as much effort as I should have (and I haven't played in a long time; I only have one effort game under my belt), but otherwise it's just low hanging fruit. It feels like a lot of them are being informed by pre-conceived notions (on the fence = absolute scum) and other such oddities (am I not allowed to voice concerns about Snike or that I'm hopeful for a scum lynch? Perhaps it's not how it usually goes around here, but I think it's strange to use that as a crutch for a scum read). I feel like we're blowing this way out of proportion here, and there are bigger concerns we should be looking into instead.

##Vote: Junko

I'm falling back on this until there's something better to be had.

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Alignment is not in that part of the role pm afaik. And I would know because I subbed in and was confused af by my role pm.

##Unvote

##Vote: Nightmare

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Vote stays for rn I still think he's scum. I don't think Macho is something you'd miss when you're claiming a role.

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