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We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

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4 minutes ago, SullyMcGully said:

Oh, yeah:

##Vote: Zkirsche

You did something last night. I dunno what it was or who you did it to, but if you haven't claimed yet, would you care to explain? Apologies if you did claim. If that's the case, can somebody tell me which blasted page it's on?

3 minutes ago, Refa said:

I'd sheep it.  He did not claim.

##Unvote

##Vote: Zkirsche

???????

Are we voting people for using night actions now?

 

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Unless I misunderstand something, Sully just voted Kirsche because he used a night action, Sully doesn't know who he did it to or what he did though.

And Refa is sheeping that?

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I'll wait until kirsche's claim

writing some notes down so I don't forget

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1 hour ago, Nightmare said:

@Snike Whoever has the role will understand, but basically I have a two-way, private conversation open with one other player here, who shall go unnamed. And yes @ your second post. The flavour is something about Marth being unlucky and Marth Isn't Allowed To Have Fun.

I'm too lazy to address them directly by quotes, but the cases on me are I think pretty weak as far as scum reading goes (advocates so far: kirsche, Shinori, athena, Via, kindasorta Snike). They're legitimate in terms of play style criticism because I haven't been putting as much effort as I should have (and I haven't played in a long time; I only have one effort game under my belt), but otherwise it's just low hanging fruit. It feels like a lot of them are being informed by pre-conceived notions (on the fence = absolute scum) and other such oddities (am I not allowed to voice concerns about Snike or that I'm hopeful for a scum lynch? Perhaps it's not how it usually goes around here, but I think it's strange to use that as a crutch for a scum read). I feel like we're blowing this way out of proportion here, and there are bigger concerns we should be looking into instead.

Bolded and

53 minutes ago, Nightmare said:

I didn't "miss" it, I just hadn't read my role PM in a while.

But sure, go ahead and vote me.

all

47 minutes ago, Nightmare said:

Joke's on me if you turn out to be scum.

of

44 minutes ago, Nightmare said:

Same man, but apparently that makes me scum, so you're my scum buddy now. Sorry Refa.

these quotes are appeals to emotion (ate), where the defense (or case) isn't based in reason but more emotion/tone wise. It's kinda like trying to guilt someone into not suspecting you; and it is not really good play overall imo. I usually (and do in this case) find it suspicious bc I feel like town most of the time has logic backing their defenses.

I don't understand the votejump refa; is kirsche doing a night action inherently scummy?

Also wtf Counting flipped how are they subbing in???????????

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1 minute ago, Shinori said:

Unless I misunderstand something, Sully just voted Kirsche because he used a night action, Sully doesn't know who he did it to or what he did though.

And Refa is sheeping that?

I have a decent idea of what Sully is going for, and pressuring Kirsche is doing more than my Junk vote that I don't even feel confident on.

Shinori by the by, why do you think that Athena's claim was scummier than Bart's?  I don't remember you saying this yesterday, but your questions today make me think that's the case?

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1 minute ago, Snike said:

these quotes are appeals to emotion (ate), where the defense (or case) isn't based in reason but more emotion/tone wise. It's kinda like trying to guilt someone into not suspecting you; and it is not really good play overall imo. I usually (and do in this case) find it suspicious bc I feel like town most of the time has logic backing their defenses.

AtE is null.  

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Also, though this is stating the obvious, I think refa was networked last night + nightmare got the chat through the martyr, assuming role sincerity. Should we push to know the other member of the network?

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I do not think someone should claim because they used a night action.

I used a night action last night. You don't know who I did it too or what I did, by that thought process shouldn't you be voting me as well?

@RefaI had a slight back and forth with Bart after I cased him in day 1, his responses made me feel a lot better about him and Athena's actions were scummier by far.  So not counting roles, I thought Athena was worse.  Counting roles though I was also kind of thinking that 1 co-networker might be scum and 1 might be town.  That's kind of just role speculation and guessing though.

And I have no idea wtf Sully is going for so I'm not gonna agree with either of those votes at the moment as far as I know he claimed Martyr and not any sort of tracker or watcher or anything along those lines so Idk how he would even know if Kirsche did something last night.

I should end this by saying I was null-leaning scum on Kirsche still from day 1 but I don't understand the current votes on him.

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@Sully- ??? what's so suspicious about kirsche "doing something". everyone has a role and most of them are probably active. 16/5/1 is probably about right for numbers though, yeah.

@snike- ehh the bartozio cases weren't really made at that point, before the first two of htose athena posts, and the bit about bartozio messing up his claim had just happened. i think it's an okay progression.

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That is correct we targeted Refa and got a network intended for him. Nightmares saying town was a mistake it does say Macho Matyr 

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1 minute ago, Shinori said:

I do not think someone should claim because they used a night action.

I used a night action last night. You don't know who I did it too or what I did, by that thought process shouldn't you be voting me as well?

@RefaI had a slight back and forth with Bart after I cased him in day 1, his responses made me feel a lot better about him and Athena's actions were scummier by far.  So not counting roles, I thought Athena was worse.  Counting roles though I was also kind of thinking that 1 co-networker might be scum and 1 might be town.  That's kind of just role speculation and guessing though.

And I have no idea wtf Sully is going for so I'm not gonna agree with either of those votes at the moment as far as I know he claimed Martyr and not any sort of tracker or watcher or anything along those lines so Idk how he would even know if Kirsche did something last night.

I should end this by saying I was null-leaning scum on Kirsche still from day 1 but I don't understand the current votes on him.

Nope!

I do agree with what you said about conetworker, I just don't think it incriminates Athena.

Sully didn't claim Martyr...

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2 minutes ago, Snike said:

Bolded and

all

of

these quotes are appeals to emotion (ate), where the defense (or case) isn't based in reason but more emotion/tone wise. It's kinda like trying to guilt someone into not suspecting you; and it is not really good play overall imo. I usually (and do in this case) find it suspicious bc I feel like town most of the time has logic backing their defenses.

I'm subbed out, but I have permission to post this.

Bolded: I don't really understand the first part. How is a pre-conceived notion not a logical failing? The second part I can see how it can be read that way, but it wasn't my intention so sorry about that. What I'm saying there is that it feels like withholding from comments like the things I said (which honestly seemed completely innocuous to me) feels stifling, and I don't think that's a productive way to do things.

The other quotes: the first one is just me giving up. Again it wasn't my intent to AtE you or anyone, but sorry if it came across that way. The other two I thought were obvious as jokes.

 

By the way, Mack hasn't read the thread so give him some time to catch up. I've given him a summary, but still.

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Okay, that seems wishy washy because OVERALL I think Athena is more likely to be scum (on account of being one of the few players who bothers me), but I don't think that's related to that.  @Snike Where's your case at man????

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TBH, I don't like Snike's push on Nightmare, but his claim seems townie...

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15 minutes ago, SullyMcGully said:

##Vote: Zkirsche

You did something last night. I dunno what it was or who you did it to, but if you haven't claimed yet, would you care to explain? Apologies if you did claim. If that's the case, can somebody tell me which blasted page it's on?

I don't understand what this means? You are suspicious because they used a night action, I don't think that means anything, all the town flips we have seen had a night actions

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7 minutes ago, Shinori said:

???????

Are we voting people for using night actions now?

 

Well, I don't have that much Mafia experience, but I'm pretty sure that night actions kill people sometimes. And Eurykins is dead. 

OK, I think I see your point. In P5, there were a lot of vanilla townies, but I'm guessing in this game there are none? So I guess a lot of other people will have night actions. Still, I kinda want to know what Kirsche was doing. And I haven't formed any reads elsewhere, so I'm keeping my vote where it is.

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5 minutes ago, Refa said:

AtE is null.  

Not willing to leave it at that. I think it's situational, though I should say I put that together more to explain what I was getting at than to effortcase.

I see the nightmare post; I'm getting outposted rn so I'll get to it in a minute

@refa I linked a tldr like a page ago I think? Or did sf eat that too Do you want me to go back and just quote everything I've said about athena?

 

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1 minute ago, SullyMcGully said:

Well, I don't have that much Mafia experience, but I'm pretty sure that night actions kill people sometimes. And Eurykins is dead. 

OK, I think I see your point. In P5, there were a lot of vanilla townies, but I'm guessing in this game there are none? So I guess a lot of other people will have night actions. Still, I kinda want to know what Kirsche was doing. And I haven't formed any reads elsewhere, so I'm keeping my vote where it is.

Have you or Elison Role claimed yet? 

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Also probably shoulda known better on the bartozio lynch considering how that wagon formed out of a RVS vote weapons doing a kinda fear mongering thingy. There was no good reason for that wagon to exist but bartozio was meh and I didn't want athena lynched. 

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3 minutes ago, SullyMcGully said:

Well, I don't have that much Mafia experience, but I'm pretty sure that night actions kill people sometimes. And Eurykins is dead. 

OK, I think I see your point. In P5, there were a lot of vanilla townies, but I'm guessing in this game there are none? So I guess a lot of other people will have night actions. Still, I kinda want to know what Kirsche was doing. And I haven't formed any reads elsewhere, so I'm keeping my vote where it is.

There a billion and one types of villager night actions and this is a role madness game, to get on someone's case for having a NA is silly at best. 

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Just now, Snike said:

Not willing to leave it at that. I think it's situational, though I should say I put that together more to explain what I was getting at than to effortcase.

@refa I linked a tldr like a page ago I think? Or did sf eat that too Do you want me to go back and just quote everything I've said about athena?

Sure, go for it.

Oooh, I missed that because I'm dumb.  Can you explain like...what you're getting at with those, because I'm confused.  What's the scum intent?

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