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We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

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10 minutes ago, Snike said:
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I can understand the otherstuff as jokes but in addition to the dismissal of cases w/o like direct refutation it struck me as further ate; I might've overreached but that's what really bothered me.

I don't think assuming on the fence = absolute scum was the problem; it was more that you felt super passive. And I don't think anyone is saying that you're not allowed to question the motivations of a player; in that particular case though the way you're presenting that ignores the context of the situation; ie 20-30 minutes before the deadline with no plurality lynch in place. I guess I just see it as more opinionated than factually based.

I think this is a bit of the culture shift via mentioned.

Yeah I'm not about to press Mack just yet.

@Nightmare Above's for you.

This is fair. I'd say more but it might influence the game, so I'll leave it at that until postgame.

Good luck everyone.

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Hey Marf while you're here do you want to explain why you think I faked role miller? Is my content scummy or is it just the late claim?

And why would I confirm I'd scan as Godfather in any case?

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I was thinking about walrein being flaking scum too I would probably sheep that if it became a thing

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OK, I need some sleep. Nobody posted those reads I wanted, which is fine. I might have to read back a bit. For now, I'm agreeing that Weapons is kinda scummy. That joke felt... forced, almost. And their posting style in general just seems strange to me. Then again, I'm the idiot who thought Shinori's posting style was scummy! In... that one game where he was scum. 

Still want some answers from Kirsche so that my role counts for something, but I think I'm more suspect of Weapons right now. I get where Mack is coming from wondering about whether he's always this way. So:

##Unvote

##Vote: WeaponsofMassConstruction

If you couldn't tell, I don't have any real good reads yet. I'll be able to form a better opinion tomorrow hopefully.

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very glad I wasn't here for the weapons stuff. i do agree with via that he's doing a lot of that kind of stuff this game, more than normal. but then when he's posted content it's been decent? :weary: wouldn't actually mind voting there but for now ##Vote: Jaybee

post has links instead of quotes cuz jb's posts are large

I think I covered why his initial  posts voting Fable weren't great. Just felt like he jumped on something that was obviously "bad" and didn't really talk about anything else, even as he was pushing Fable for not doing so. and then when he comes back later his Fable unvote felt weird because there wasn't really any sort of progression? he just unvotes without saying why and then never talks about Fable again. this reinforces my feeling that this vote was very opportunistic.

this post right after isn't very good. it's implied in this post due to this question to refa that he still finds fable suspicious, but he never actually looks at fable's posts. kind of makes me feel like he dropped it because he was getting flak for it. i dislike the eclipse bit because he's attacking her play and saying he doesn't know what to make of it even though he concludes by saying she's town. kirsche bit is similarly waffly and I don't think it was even true. bit on bartozio is ~okay~ but also waffly and worded as a pressure vote because it would be more valuable than a zeus vote. last part feels strange because he hadn't talked about zeus at all. weapons stuff is fine though.

this is probably his best post but there's still stuff i don't like. the stuff on marth's claim is just... wrong and I think several people pointed it out and he keeps saying it in subsequent posts regardless so idk what was going on there. the bit on eclipse is decent but it's kind of a departure from his earlier read on her and feels like a recurring problem with his play where his cases seem to be heavily based on just one post. it was like that with fable and bartozio (initially anyways) too. i think his reasoning for staying on bartozio here is reasonable.

 

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sully, does your role just check if someone has actions (so if they have a passive role vs an active role)?

in that case I can see some use because sully could target marth for example to clarify whether or not he has an action? i think scum are more likely to have at least some active components to their role (although having an active component doesn't make you scum)

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I read Fable's ISO and I think the thing that was bothering me was that his reads are pretty easy and besides that, I feel like people may be townreading him because his posts sounds confident and I'm paranoid about these sorts of things. There's no specific thing I picked up on that was outright scummy though, so I guess this is a pls post more in-depth reads slot. Gonna vote park until I find something better.

I'm also rereading Junko, and I really don't think the big post that he made would come from scum. Can someone summarize the cases on him? I'm having difficulty parsing through his posts in general, so I'm wondering how everyone else does it and is sure they've understood him correctly.

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Bartozio (10): Jaybee, WeaponsofMassConstruction, BBM, Zkirsche, athena57, Nightmare, Snike + SatsumaFSoySoy, Fable, Fenrir, Refa
athena_57 (4): , Shinori, eclipse, Eurykins
Magnificence Incarnate (3): Walrein, vi-astra, Bartozio
zeus_112 (1): Bibbon,
Zkirsche (1): Junk
Junk (1): Magnificence Incarnate
Shinori (1): Elieson
Bibbon (1): zeus_112

Not Voting: Eärendil

Kinda where I'm at in terms of reads, one thing I'll note is walren is falling off a bit and needs to post more.

I think my goal for today is to just sort out the Bartozio wagon cuz I think it's pretty likely there's wolves  in the first 4 voters on that wagon. Also I'm thinking there quite a bit of V on V violence d1 so I wanna reevaluate Athena and Marth and make sure I'm really confidant in those V reads.  

And then finally read over Eury and try to figure out if there might have been a specific reason she was killed. Gonna be busy tomorrow with work so i'm gonna try to get the bulk of everything done on Sunday. 

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Ok I read kirsche's ISO and came out with a slight scumread. Junko's ISO also makes more sense after having read both.

The main thing with kirsche is that while most of his logic/actions are fine, they are townreads or callouts or stuff that isn't really alignment indicative, and I disagree with the core arguments behind his main D1 votes (BBM and Junko).

For BBM, kirsche said that his gut was that BBM was asking questions for the sake of it, but I distinctly did not get that feeling. For Junko, kirsche agreed with Marth's case where Junko was wishy-washy, but I also find that case to be a stretch, and the rest of his reasoning just seems rather dismissive of Junko's posts, like he was sticking to his read just to stick to his read.

I think his most valid point is that Junko was voting him throughout most of D1 for a relatively minor reason, so it may just be town OMGUS, but overall I think kirsche looks worse between the two of them. I can vote here, but I've only read three players in-depth and want to see if there's clearer stuff out there.

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do you wonder if scum went for eury because there are new players on the scumteam and they didn't want to deal with her wallposts :thinkingemoji:

no but the most likely answer was eury was obvtown enough but less likely than say like, eclipse, or any of the current roleclaims, to be docced.

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@BBM I actually don't think that bit on eclipse is that good, around the athena part bc athena goes from I don't like marth wagon to putting him before admitted nullread in terms of wanting to lynch; Brosiding factors in but the opinion flip is real; I also think putting bart at >>>> Marth is inaccurate; I didn't get the feeling bart was a strong scumread. and athena says good/bad defense could change things so the distance was apparently negligible.

I agree with the case otherwise, tbh, enough to

##Unvote

##Vote: Jaybee

Until I see mack is caught up; I did say to Nightmare I'd back off for a short while.


@SullyMcGully Here's a very very tl;dr reads list from me; read the thread for in depth stuff

Spoiler

Fenrir Aesir - I felt like fenrir was good eod1 but I want to see more

athena_57 - scum; read my posts

BBM- Was null-town but I feel stronger about him being town rn

Bibbon- I'm pretty sure I know her role; I think probably same alignment as fable; needs to out the secret scumread.

Gaius-  Are you there? Can you hear us? We'll give you e-sugar if you show up

eclipse- town imo; read her page 23 for another point against athena not mentioned in my cases

Sully-why did you claim kirsche had a night action?

Fable- I think probably same alignment as bibbon; had better push mack in their scumchat

Jaybee- Had him at null while I was coming into this phase but I also hadn't read him; IMO scum if you listen to BBM's case which I think is solid :okhand:

Junko- null-scum; I thought there was room for improvement and again I caught him lurking at dl

Marth- I don't even know; in retrospect was right about bartozio but calling my stuff faked w/o addressing content is ;/

Mack- slot subbed but I think it's scum based off of recent stuff; willing to wait to see what mack does

Snike + SatsumaFSoySoy  scumbuddies imo

Refa- I can't read him for the life of me because sometimes I can follow his stuff but sometimes I just can't follow the yellow brick road. I'd like to think townie but null.

Shinori-  reminds me of last game a little where he bodied my scumteam. I'm not seeing the scumnori case.

Via- town imo; insomniac use was really effective and allowed for a smooth transition into the day

Walrein- COME BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK- hesitant to jump on the flake = scumwagon because I liked their early but it's a meta read for a raisin.

Weapons-I don't know how to read him bc he's Weaponsing but in between the longform content is throwing me off. I don't think his tracker claim was anything other than a meme after what everyone thought was a tracker claim from sully; I didn't take it seriously

zeus_12 - why is this slot a thing?

Zkirsche- I was leaning town going into this phase but sats + the misrep are making me reconsider. Null rn

I agree with Eury being obvtown; my shortlist for n1 predictions was again via eury eclipse so the doc going onto eury over the other two would be unlikely IMO.

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Just did a skim read.

Can we PLEASE stop claiming roles unless it decides today's lynch?

Will do Actual Reads after dealing with my cat.

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@WeaponsofMassConstruction I don't really want to spend the effort on reverse casing eclipse but for me it boils down to she's active, I can see the cases (may not agree with them) and I feel like she's trying to scumhunt. Play reminds me more of brexitland than antihero anony (where she subbed into a scum slot).

Going to bed. Guns are on the table, rope's in the closet, bullets are in the coffee table drawer. If you do dayvig, remember to put on a silencer so you don't wake the playerlist (and half the forest) up in the middle of the night OOG.

Good night thread.

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Leftovers from D1:

- JB got really weird towards the end of D1, especially regarding Marth's claim.  I honestly don't see how he came to that conclusion.  Which, in turn, makes me question just about everything else he's thrown out.
- Nightmare's last-minute wagon switch wasn't good IMO, because there were serious issues with getting A lynch out.  Turbowagons work best when there's enough people to get a lynch through.
- Can't say I'm happy about yesterday's lynch.  I have some associative reads, but I'm peeved that I wasn't around to say more, because I'd ultimately ended with a null read on Bart.
- I miss proper ISOs.

First off, I don't know if that announcement text is because the mods want to do it like that, or Weapons did it.  Regardless, my eyes suck, so can it be posted in normal size text?

For the announcement itself:

- What does "emulating a town meta" mean?  Everyone has their own tells so I don't see what's so off about Fable's play.
- I haven't had issues with Refa (yet), so how would a vote help?
- But honestly this has a lot of good stuff, and I'm feeling a bit better about Weapons thanks to the amount of effort put into it

For D2 stuff:

6 hours ago, Snike said:

Lastly, thank you for the gift last night, O Anonymous Benefactor. I will name him George, and I will hug him and pet him and squeeze him and pat him and pet him and and rub him and caress him and....
 

Lewd.

6 hours ago, Snike said:

Vote stays for rn I still think he's scum. I don't think Macho is something you'd miss when you're claiming a role.

Missing it is null.  The actual role is most likely town, because why would mafia want to redirect unknown things to themselves?

5 hours ago, SullyMcGully said:

##Vote: Zkirsche

 

You did something last night. I dunno what it was or who you did it to, but if you haven't claimed yet, would you care to explain? Apologies if you did claim. If that's the case, can somebody tell me which blasted page it's on?

Why.

Like, I think you're probably town based off of this stunt (mafia would have no reason to advertise this), but WHY.

4 hours ago, Snike said:

Also, though this is stating the obvious, I think refa was networked last night + nightmare got the chat through the martyr, assuming role sincerity. Should we push to know the other member of the network?

I wouldn't, but it's a moot point.

1 hour ago, Fable said:

Bartozio (10): Jaybee, WeaponsofMassConstruction, BBM, Zkirsche, athena57, Nightmare, Snike + SatsumaFSoySoy, Fable, Fenrir, Refa
athena_57 (4): , Shinori, eclipse, Eurykins
Magnificence Incarnate (3): Walrein, vi-astra, Bartozio
zeus_112 (1): Bibbon,
Zkirsche (1): Junk
Junk (1): Magnificence Incarnate
Shinori (1): Elieson
Bibbon (1): zeus_112

Not Voting: Eärendil

Kinda where I'm at in terms of reads, one thing I'll note is walren is falling off a bit and needs to post more.

I think my goal for today is to just sort out the Bartozio wagon cuz I think it's pretty likely there's wolves  in the first 4 voters on that wagon. Also I'm thinking there quite a bit of V on V violence d1 so I wanna reevaluate Athena and Marth and make sure I'm really confidant in those V reads.  

And then finally read over Eury and try to figure out if there might have been a specific reason she was killed. Gonna be busy tomorrow with work so i'm gonna try to get the bulk of everything done on Sunday. 

I assume red are scum reads?

---

Weapons trolling is null in my eyes.  First off, the odds of a kirsche turbo off of that would be incredibly low, and second, the context of it made no sense to anyone that stopped to think about it.  Both Bart and Marth's claimed roles imply a lot of night actions - otherwise, they're both functional vanillas.  So someone having a night action shouldn't be a surprise.  I think it's a newbie mistake from Sully, but I'm more wary of Refa/Via because of it.

Speaking of, Marth's gonna be a pain in the ass to read if all he has is phone posting.  @Magnificence Incarnate where'd your read on Junko go?

But still. . .

##Vote: athena_57

So, back to this post.  When you don't understand the cases on someone, it implies that you aren't scumreading them.  And yet somehow this was more deserving of a lynch than zeus, who would've given an extremely strong associative read on Bibbon/you/me?

Speaking of, since our theoretical vig didn't bother shooting zeus, I'd still lynch him.

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i misread sully's claim @ eclipse. i thought he was saying kirsche targeted eury. I think us coming to that conclusion by mistake isn't the same as us thinking kirsche is scum for having a night action on its own. I didn't even vote kirsche until weapons joke-claimed tracker. what do you mean more wary of us? do you mean you think we're scummy?

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7 hours ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

##Vote: Fable

for now

 

5 hours ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

Hey guys, I claim tracker and I followed kirsche last night. He visited Eurykins so he probably killed him imo

##Vote: kirsche

I don't see why you would do this? What this looks like to me, is that you're capitalizing on someone else's claim abour kirsche. If you really were the tracker, you would not have hesitated in voting him right at the start?

The timing of this is also highly off. A scum peek at this time is detrimental to town and you should have known this, this is one of the basic things people learn playing mafia. 

I will give you a chance to explain yourself.

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like... I don't mean to buddy refa but I'm pretty sure he made the same mistake. although he voted kirsche before weapons claimed iirc which I'll admit is weird. I skimmed sully's claim assuming he was saying he had a guilty on kirsche then only realized afterwards after other people were reacting to it that he wasn't claiming a tracker result. I also think sully is town from the way he claimed.

sorry but the last time someone went "I'm wary of via" when I was being universally townread, they were scum. so being a little less vague about that would help me read you better.

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my feeling about kirsche is that I haven't really agreed with his cases much but I've felt that he hasn't really been playing much to scum meta? he's not tunneling as much as i would expect and he seems more willing to re-evaluate stuff.

i actually don't think it's a good idea to give you a reads list before you catch up, sorry sully. one of the main advantages of being a sub is that you can approach the game with fresh eyes and maybe catch something that people who've been immersed in the game miss. giving you a reads list would bias you towards/against those people.

man wtf happened to walrein he was my strongest townread through the first 24 hours rip. prolly going to be my next reread

although i am suspicious of weapons somewhat i will admit part of my read is just that i think everyone else other than jb has been townier. #d2poe

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Cool just gonna assume clipse is town then

12 minutes ago, eclipse said:

So, back to this post.  When you don't understand the cases on someone, it implies that you aren't scumreading them.  And yet somehow this was more deserving of a lynch than zeus, who would've given an extremely strong associative read on Bibbon/you/me?

Speaking of, since our theoretical vig didn't bother shooting zeus, I'd still lynch him.

The announcement font size is flavor. It's about Junko being timid and not being heard.

And I'll defend athena here, not understanding the cases doesn't mean you're not open to them being scum; there's plenty of times scum get voted for not actually good reasons and so you can feel like someone is scum without agreeing with other people's cases on them.

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##unvote
##vote: JB

I partly expressed my grievances with him already while I was doing my insomniac reread, but I think after the initial shock of the earlier claims I'm more inclined to this lynch. BBM's case on him is good and I too thought his conclusion on marth's read was weird.

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@Vi-astra I'm also paranoid of Shinori, but I have nothing concrete to go off, which is why I didn't name my suspicions of them on D1. Is there any reason to be paranoid of them? 

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