We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

[Refa]

@Snike FWIW, I'm genuinely sorry if my read on you is frustrating you.  Feel free to take a step back until you're calmer, you're not in danger of being lynched today anyways (Junk/Weapons are who I'd vote, definitely will be salty if I have to consolidate on JB...).  If I get NK'd though, I'm conscripting Omega to case you in my steed.

[Alette]

25 minutes ago, Makaze said:

I actually agree. But I still think that he is unlikely to be Mafia based on the earlier post I quoted.

Tinfoiling that he could be ITP.

I am reading but have been out for the night. I am still on Omega for now but am willing to move to rad/junk's slot with rad subbing out. Unless we think it will get modkilled.

Omega you are pinging me as overly aggressive. You got very defensive when someone rolespec'd and tried to shut down any notion of aolcong by that route. You also dislike anyone giving "easy" town reads. In general you seem to be against PoE itself. Is that wrong? What kinds of PoE do you believe we can do?

ITP? Mak, I don't know SF lingo yet

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

12 minutes ago, Makaze said:

Back at PC.

That post feels genuine from Sully and I don't see any point in making it as Mafia, but it's largely NAI. Just that he'd probably avoid drawing too much attention in this situation.

I definitely dislike Omega pushing only two worlds.

Omega, on top of my PoE question, who would be your third Mafia suspect? And which of your two suspects do you think make more sense as that person's partner?

I don't have a confident third suspect. I usually try to avoid making teams until after a scum flips.

For now, I'm thinking Sully's town and I'm trying to get into Shinori's thought process behind placing him in his lynch pool. Like, when Sully came in here and just immediately claimed, that struck me as townie and Shinori shading that was ??? to me. I wasn't crazy about Nightmare's posts when he was playing. Eclipse, well I REALLY want to see how she reacts/responds to my slot and what she does when she comes back. I remember suspecting Weapons/JB earlier as well.

But honestly, the above could all change. I have most people as null. I need way more from you, Kaoz, Mackc, Alette, Fable, etc. to get a better grip on this game and am trying to work my way through with what I can.

[Refa]

Independent Third Party.

Who is scum, Alette????

[Makaze]

Just now, Alette said:

ITP? Mak, I don't know SF lingo yet

Wasn't specifically at you, but ITP is independent third party. SK for example.

[SullyMcGully]

That's a big knife...

OK, that's all I've got for tonight. I feel good. Even if my contributions suck, at least I'm unlikely to be a mislynch. 

@Neighborizers I'd be cool with being in a QT with Refa, Via, Eclipse, or whoever else you think is town. I might need help putting my role to good use... it's not really useful as it is...

[Snike]

I'm more irritated in that like I feel like there should be 6/7 scum and outside my main wagon up until recently it's been v hard to find scum; Also I kinda feel like we're almost extended d1 even despite flips; Like, info-wise other than the flips we don't have much to work on in concrete/ no one's really stepped up imo.

And then the push well yeah I guess I am a little irritated about that but I'm also paranoid af rn that like junko/kirsche is v/v because of the sudden huge push on it.

Maybe I'm overexpecting.

[Percivalé]

I'm really lost and kind of need help. everyone I've been scumreading I can still see being town one way or another. I'm mega stuck.

[Refa]

Put me in a QT w/Snike IMO.

1 minute ago, Vi-astra said:

I'm really lost and kind of need help. everyone I've been scumreading I can still see being town one way or another. I'm mega stuck.

Can you explain your scumreads?  Which ones do you think are less likely to be town?  Try reevaluating your townreads if you're stuck on your scumreads IMO.

[Makaze]

On 4/14/2018 at 7:14 PM, Mackc2 said:

Quick question, Eclipse is confirmed mayor, making her 100% town right?

 

On 4/14/2018 at 7:16 PM, Mackc2 said:

There are non town mayors? oof

 

On 4/14/2018 at 10:11 PM, Mackc2 said:

Oof so much reading, the problem with reading 20ish pages without notes is you mix everyone up and forget things but here we go, my main scum reads are Kirsche, Athena, Marth and Fable. 

Marth is simple, he has been tunnelling Junko forever, him asking for a hydra does suggest that he is too busy to play but to me that doesn't drag any suspicion from him. 

Athena is a case that everyone has mentioned but I want to add to it that they seemed to be adamant on protecting themselves especially mid D1, Scum would want to avoid being lynched more than town. 

Kirsche bothers me because they seem to also be tunelling Junko, There is a post they made here that really worries me most, though they might just be stubborn town, but his argument just reads to me as, 'I don't really care what you say, you are the enemy' 
Also just a quick thing Junko specifically seems like an easy vote because of the sparsity of his content.

And Fable, it seems like they are talking a bit but not doing much, also going to mention Bibbon here cause I keep getting the two mixed up and they both seem so forgettable. 

Weapons doesn't bother me much, they seem to be being productive to town in between the trolling, I'm not really sure, I forget most of their posts. 

Also not sure what to think of Vi-astra I suppose they seem distant which would match being a 3rd party. 
Finally as someone who talks to Sully a bit I don't think his current attitude is scum I think it is just Sully being Sully. 

tl;dr ##Vote Kirsche 

Firstly, I'd like to point out their associative with Mack/eclipse from the first two quotes. I feel like this is either a town move, or a mafia trying to clear a partner by asking someone else to do it for them. Note this down for later.

Secondly, he doesn't even remember his reasons for voting Weapons in the first place, but Weapons was the only person he had coherent thoughts about when he voted him just a while before...

I really don't like the not using the QT thing. It makes Fable look very town and Mack look like someone who really doesn't want to risk anything. Town have absolutely nothing to lose by talking to Mafia. If Mack gets the impression he has outed info to the Mafia, he can simply post in the thread after his reaction test and tell us his results. I think this overly cautious attitude makes absolutely no sense when he actively claimed his power in the thread. What other information could a town give a Mafia?

[Percivalé]

2 hours ago, Omega. said:

@Vi-astra

Plz engage/interact/ask me questions to get a better read on me if you're scumreading my slot. I don't want a repeat of the last 2 games where you hold distrust towards me; I think you're probably villager here and I don't want a mislynch being validated by someone most of the game reads as Town.

who did you sub in for again? I'm mega mega lost.

[Makaze]

Just now, Vi-astra said:

who did you sub in for again? I'm mega mega lost.

Read the OP

[Percivalé]

Just now, Makaze said:

Read the OP

I just did

I re-evaluated Marth before the sub and I keep going back and forth like, I think he was just town playing badly and I''m just reading too into weak play being scummy; and wrt weapons I also am still not entirely convinced he is scum, even though I voted him earlier that was in part due to shock at the time and now that it's worn off he reads too much like town that doesn't have much conviction. I'm still only really sold on JB.

[Makaze]

FTR JB is also one of the people I have no town vibes about. Fine with lynching them.

eclipse / Mack / JB > Rad

So far.

[Percivalé]

nightmare slot I was super convinced was scum despite the little things that were bothering me (what's the scum intent in ignoring both hugest wagons then the reason he admitted why he did so was like, weird if he's scum) and then the claim and then Mack really hasn't been bothering me THAT much. it makes me paranoid about slots that have been mostly under the radar like the fenrir slot

[Makaze]

##Vote @Mackc2

Since apparently eclipse isn't happening.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

7 minutes ago, Vi-astra said:

I just did

I re-evaluated Marth before the sub and I keep going back and forth like, I think he was just town playing badly and I''m just reading too into weak play being scummy; and wrt weapons I also am still not entirely convinced he is scum, even though I voted him earlier that was in part due to shock at the time and now that it's worn off he reads too much like town that doesn't have much conviction. I'm still only really sold on JB.

I don't think Marth was playing badly FWIW but people seem to latch onto him in general, happened last game too.

Yeah, JB can still go. I should probably reread over him/Weapons at some point.

@Fable

How confident are you in Bibbon being town here? How does her scumgame differ from what she did here? Can I get like 3 likely scums from you?

Apologies if you've been asked these already; it's a big thread and I don't remember everything.

I'm out for the night. Y'all know what I want to do. Hit me up if anyone has any questions for me. I'll be back briefly in the morning, a decent amount in the afternoon, and I'll be here for EOD where I'll probably tell you guys full steam ahead on Junko.

[Makaze]

Based on numbers the figure of 5-6 scum seems accurate, but I don't think it would be all Mafia in this case. Maybe 5 mafia and 1 ITP? Or 4 mafia and 1 ITP. Not that it matters that much, but ITP can easily seem to be solving because they have to be to be playing for real. They just don't have town's interests in mind. So not seeing any obvious mega team could be because it isn't just one but team we are hunting.

[Makaze]

In particular, any ITP with kill power would significantly lower the amount of Mafia in the game (otherwise they could achieve parity very quickly if the ITP kills among the town).

[Mackc2]

Okay, sorry I didn't actually read any of Junko's posts properly and I misread the Kirsche and Marths problem with him as being that he is inactive. But actually reading it yeah you have a point he has been tunnelling Kirsche, seems to be actively aware of the fact that he is seen as tunnelling (conveniently that post happened to include lots of opinions that he doesn't really get back to.) and he seems to be focusing on attacking the people who have targeted so actually fair enough I can actually agree he gives off scum vibes. 

Also going to say that he mentions Satsuma and by extension Snike as town despite some problems so that incriminates Snike too in my eyes, I think it was Refa who was arguing that Snike is tunnelling Kirsche and I think Refa is probably town (he's fooled me before though) so the story of Junko and the Hyrda being scum buddies kind of fits. 

As for weapons I truly have no clue, I can't follow what he is doing. 

##Unvote 
##Vote: Radicate

[Mackc2]

Whats ITP?

[Makaze]

Read up. It's explained in this same page.

[eclipse]

I have a lot to read/analyze, and I'd rather be sleeping. But deadline's tomorrow, and I'm bugging out well before it, so I can't take my extended bedtime. I'm going to basically post things in piecemeal, just so I can get my thoughts out.  Yes, it's going to be disorganized.  No, I don't care if it makes it harder for you to reread me.

11 hours ago, Makaze said:

@eclipse Can you give your top three scum reads, and maybe at least a basic analysis of if they could conceivably be scum together?

After over a third of the game subbed in?  Maybe later.  But thank your predecessor for me disliking your slot so much I still want it gone.

11 hours ago, Makaze said:

What bothers me more is that I think eclipse's behavior itself is the soft tell she's talking about...

In that she's randomly pressuring people for what I consider weak reasons and I don't think she's actually anywhere near scum hunting. She's just going for the easiest target she sees, is how it looks to me. Which can find scum sometimes... Just not impressive, easy to do as any alignment.

Deal with it.  I have other commitments in life besides mafia.

I'll address what I think is worth addressing from you, but your attitude of "I want to lynch eclipse after subbing in" stinks.

10 hours ago, Omega. said:

Whoa there cowboy.

I just replaced in. I was reading along and was pretty sure Marth was villa. Now, I KNOW he's innocent and because of that, I'm pretty sure he/I am on the mislynch list. I really do not get why people who have played with Marth before thought he was wolfy here. I misread him the last game we played but after I understood his playstyle better, he was an easy read for me here. So, I think at least 1 wolf has pushed the slot and I'm surprised anyone wants to lynch him over like 1 of kirsche/Junk, JB, athena, etc.

Day 1: Marth kept saying he'd reread until I left.  Meanwhile, he had enough time to comment on trivial, non-alignment things.  Mentioned zeus was probably newbscum, then voted Junko.

Day 2: Suddenly decided to mention Walrein, despite the latter not being there.  I know I didn't like something about his Junko read (I think it was Junko), but I'm not about to navigate away from this page and risk losing this post.

Claim had nothing to do with his alignment.

8 hours ago, Refa said:

(snip)

I'll deal with this in a later post.  But I do appreciate the effort.

6 hours ago, Lord Gaius said:

When someone is under fire they have to defend themselves? This doesn't sit right with me, why are we playing if not to push our scumreads and convince other people we're town? You threw a bunch of buzz words into a paragraph that don't really make sense together.

I have the ability to read posts, and hear it as if someone's reading it to me.  I don't think everyone here will reread their own posts, listen to the inflections, and reword it until it sounds tonally agreeable.  It's a double-edged sword - I can read faster than normal, but I listen to everything, which makes actually processing it a pain in the noggin.

There's a certain dissonance when trying to be something you're not - in this case, mafia to town.  That dissonance is more likely to come out as a very different tone, because it's a lie on a fundamental level.  That's why I pick on people whose tone shifts like crazy.

In other words, most people are shitty liars.

3 hours ago, BBM said:

sorry, posted early. some questions for @eclipse: what are your opinions on kirsche/junko? it feels like you've only tangentially talked about them and when you did you basically just said that kirsche made you uncomfortable tonally because he was being hyper-aggressive. i feel like you should know that that part is pretty null regarding kirsche?

being waffly isn't a scumtell by itself. it just adds to the feeling that you're not really pushing anyone when that's your strongest scumread.

so how do you plan on coming up with scumreads if you're not going to scumread them even after they ping you and then you reread them in depth?

When it comes to the point where I'm seriously considering warning kirsche for his antics, that's too far.

Forgot how much of a bitch it is to juggle a game this size.  Will probably miss a lot, but I can always refer back to it later.

2 hours ago, Omega. said:

This is dumb. Every game I play here, I push someone, people come out of the woodwork with meta defenses that I have no way of having, then call me scum for it instead of actually engaging with me and trying to get me to understand, or even making the simplest effort to understand my own thought process behind why I'm making the push I'm making.

Marth commenting on Walrein's disappearance isn't scummy. As for it being easy, easy != scummy. I'd argue that paranoia towards Walrein especially after seeing him do the same thing as scum in other game is likelier to come from village than anything.

Now you know how Shinori feels in regards to your lack of explanations.  It may not be your style, but if you want a solid read on him, you'll need to explain yourself.

Real life happens. Would I be scum if I wound up in the hospital because my food allergies went to hell?  Likewise, Marth had his own situation to take care of, so I have my reasons for scumreading him, but his trip isn't one of them.

1 hour ago, Mackc2 said:

Also a conversation is two ways, Fable has not posted anything in the QT either, and the only use I could see for a QT is to bounce ideas, which I can probably do better in thread where everyone can see it anyway. 

 

1 hour ago, Fable said:

This is a lie, I've responded every time mack posted in the QT. 

. . .seriously, you two?

QT is for discussing things in private.  A conversation requires two people.  Pretend you're talking on the phone with each other or something.

48 minutes ago, Omega. said:

I still say lynch Radicate for sure today, then vig kirsche if he's town. But I feel good about a Radicate lynch.

Otherwise, kirsche and I are just going to continue to tunnel him into D3 lol.

Should we lynch athena so Snike stops tunneling him?  Or how 'bout we lynch your slot so I can move on to the rest of the players?

46 minutes ago, SullyMcGully said:

This post was probably a mistake.

Yes, it was.  This isn't Antiheroes, this is now.

13 minutes ago, Snike said:

I'm more irritated in that like I feel like there should be 6/7 scum and outside my main wagon up until recently it's been v hard to find scum; Also I kinda feel like we're almost extended d1 even despite flips; Like, info-wise other than the flips we don't have much to work on in concrete/ no one's really stepped up imo.

And then the push well yeah I guess I am a little irritated about that but I'm also paranoid af rn that like junko/kirsche is v/v because of the sudden huge push on it.

Maybe I'm overexpecting.

Bart didn't exactly help himself on D1, and Eury had very little content.  Add in a bunch of subs, and it's a recipe for disaster.

Will continue my thoughts in another post.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

3 minutes ago, Mackc2 said:

Also going to say that he mentions Satsuma and by extension Snike as town despite some problems so that incriminates Snike too in my eyes, I think it was Refa who was arguing that Snike is tunnelling Kirsche and I think Refa is probably town (he's fooled me before though) so the story of Junko and the Hyrda being scum buddies kind of fits.

Refa and Snike were arguing over tunneling Athena, not Kirsche. We haven't been defending Junk by tunneling the person attacking him at all.

[Percivalé]

itp is third party

makaze no offense but you're still wasting posts telling people to look it up when ppl answer a question when you could just use thst same post to tell people even if it's annoying you that they're being lazy by not looking it up it just feels more efficient to me