We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

[Athena_57]

13 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Not really, so far. Everyone's pretty much just trading minimal pressure in an attempt to start something, but no one's really biting. Any stronger accusations so far (like what people are saying about your playing patterns) are more meta than logic.

That's fair. Though you won't accomplish anything day 1 if you don't rely a bit on gut/meta

##Unvote for now. I'm still not completely satisfied tbh, but when you've got nothing, you've got nothing I suppose.

7 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Though I have to say... For a pressure train that you didn't even start, and for an accusation that was rather surface to begin with, "here's your chance at redemption" is an arrogant thing to say lol. Eager to be on the mob's side?

Don't take me too seriously when I use such terminology. What I meant to say by that was that it would be appreciated if rather than explain why you have been 'inactive', you'd become more active. Change your ways, live the good life, chance at redemption!

7 minutes ago, zeus_112 said:

well, that doesn't mean I'm scum right. As town you're also not very comfotable whem ya got votes on ya.
Why I'm not diving in is because I'm a pretty passive player. I just read all the stuff you guys post and say something when I have a feeling or someone wants me to.

True, but you're not being attacked for defending yourself, you're being attacked for defending yourself and not doing much else.
Speaking of that, I am interested. Is there anything that stood out to you?

 

Not sure where I'm going to place my vote for now tbh, I'm still not really digging Satsuma's stuff, nor do I like Zeus's stuff, but this might just be me disliking passive/uncertain players. I'll be back later, hopefully with a vote.

[Bartozio]

Okay, so I managed to screw up reading my role pm. People should not target me with abilities at night.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

10 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

That's fair. Though you won't accomplish anything day 1 if you don't rely a bit on gut/meta

##Unvote for now. I'm still not completely satisfied tbh, but when you've got nothing, you've got nothing I suppose.

Not sure where I'm going to place my vote for now tbh, I'm still not really digging Satsuma's stuff, nor do I like Zeus's stuff, but this might just be me disliking passive/uncertain players. I'll be back later, hopefully with a vote.

You seem rather uncertain yourself. You bandwagoned on a sus train, but you took your pressure off me rather easily, after my one real answer, even though you admit that you found it not specific enough, or with enough content.

10 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

Don't take me too seriously when I use such terminology. What I meant to say by that was that it would be appreciated if rather than explain why you have been 'inactive', you'd become more active. Change your ways, live the good life, chance at redemption!

Just so we're clear on this, I wasn't offended or anything, my response was part of the game.

But I will say, you did take me making two joke posts seriously, and you should. I take your wording seriously too, and it gave me the impression that you felt comfy with Bartozio supposedly behind you.

[Athena_57]

3 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

You seem rather uncertain yourself. You bandwagoned on a sus train, but you took your pressure off me rather easily, after my one real answer, even though you admit that you found it not specific enough, or with enough content.

Just so we're clear on this, I wasn't offended or anything, my response was part of the game.

But I will say, you did take me making two joke posts seriously, and you should. I take your wording seriously too, and it gave me the impression that you felt comfy with Bartozio supposedly behind you.

Bandwagoned a train with 1 vote? Not sure whether I'd call that a train tbh.

Abandoned easily? I listed you as one of my two prime suspects, how is that dropping the case? The vote was there to pressure you into giving reads, you made it clear you didn't have/want to say anything else, not much point in keeping it there then.

I am uncertain myself as well, but I'm talking to generate conversations rather than hiding behind my uncertainty.

"Comfy with Bartozio behind you", which is why I said I didn't agree with his reasoning? I made it pretty clear I wasn't agreeing with Bartozio in the sense that I agreed with his reasoning, I merely agreed with his conclusion.

 

This post makes some really weird OMGUS-y attacks.

[Zkirsche]

4 hours ago, Junk said:

##unvote 

##vote kirsche

my biggest problem with his BBM vote is that he's taking bbm and vias situation out of context. BBM questioned why via was voting rvs when he implied that he had a read. BBM was voting rvs because he didn't have a read so it doesn't make sense to say he's hypocritical. I also don't see what's wrong with asking questions when you have nothing else to go off of. Although that's more personal opinion I suppose but the above point still stands.

He didn't have a read but by commenting on Via and I think eclipse there is something else just like with Via. It's not that he was asking questins it's that it didn't feel like the questions were going to do anything and were made just for the sake of asking questions. He even admitted as such.

@Refa: What is scummy about my analysis of his actions? Where is it wrong exactly?

[Refa]

1 minute ago, Zkirsche said:

He didn't have a read but by commenting on Via and I think eclipse there is something else just like with Via. It's not that he was asking questins it's that it didn't feel like the questions were going to do anything and were made just for the sake of asking questions. He even admitted as such.

@Refa: What is scummy about my analysis of his actions? Where is it wrong exactly?

I think you're ragging on him for something that isn't scummy, basically.  Can you explain the scum intent in asking questions?  I agree that it could be scum trying to look productive, but it could also just be town w/o a foothold in the game.  Also he didn't have any real reads unlike Via, so his question to Via isn't bad.

14 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Not really, so far. Everyone's pretty much just trading minimal pressure in an attempt to start something, but no one's really biting. Any stronger accusations so far (like what people are saying about your playing patterns) are more meta than logic.

@Shinori Okay, I must have misunderstood things then.

This bothers me.  You're just commenting on things rather than having an opinion on them.  Also don't like your reaction to Athena.  Do you think the way he handled your case was suspect?  It just feels passive aggressive to me.

25 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

Okay, so I managed to screw up reading my role pm. People should not target me with abilities at night.

The last person to do that was scum...Your Role PM should have said "In other words, you are ___."  How do you screw up reading that?

[Bartozio]

11 minutes ago, Refa said:

The last person to do that was scum...Your Role PM should have said "In other words, you are ___."  How do you screw up reading that?

By focussing more on the explanation of the role then on the name.

[Athena_57]

He's roleplaying as BBM, calling it now

[Percivalé]

1 hour ago, Shinori said:

Please don't forget there is the possibility of an ITP.  And I could see the hydra slot OR the mayor being potentially ITP.   But yeah more than likely one of the two roles is town.  That's also based on probability of chance.

shinori.........silly.....why would i of all people dismiss the possibility of an itp in a 22-player game

i haven't mentioned it cuz there's no point itp hunting ed1 (also the hydra slot being itp would really suck for the hydra slot in question because attention has already been drawn to the role for being a hydra; singling the itp out like that would be kind of a harsh/ballsy move on the host's part) & i kinda figure it's a given anyway, 

i'm not particularly fond of this cuz for one itp hunting just for the sake of it is scummy (but in this case i can be more forgiving since it's a huge game so the possibility of there being one is mega high) & it's scum-motivated to want me to feel less confident in my townreads for whatever reason available.

[Percivalé]

hey i just woke up and i was just respondin to the ping, i haven't read the rest of what's goin on yet, i need to get something to eat because i've eaten one real meal in the past 30 ish hours & make an important phone call and then i'll get back to you

[Percivalé]

by "you" i mean the game in general

also ##unvote because i don't need the rvs vote anymore right now

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

17 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

By focussing more on the explanation of the role then on the name.

What made you go back and read your role pm? This is the most suspicious thing that’s happened so far imo.

##Vote: Bartozio

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

I could vote Satsuma too, but I’d rather wait until tomorrow cause this situation of a player defending not having reads ED1 always pops up, and it’s easier to just wait for them to come up with on their own.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Same situation with Zeus. Although he sounds more like he’s blowing pressure, which is scummier.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

TBH, though I read the whole thread everyone who posted more than two paragraphs all blurred into one and I wasn’t even paying attention to who posted what so I feel like I’m just making the local maxima reads, but ehhh trying hard ED1.

[Zkirsche]

2 hours ago, BBM said:

@kirsche- junko is right yeah. i didn't have any suspicions at the time so i defaulted to a pressure vote. via had two people that he was uncomfortable with so I didn't understand the hesitation to vote one of them considering his current vote is RVS. as for asking questions for the sake of it, it's a good idea anyways in RVS just to get something going. but ultimately even if I think via's actions are weird I'm leaning town cuz of his claim. I don't think he would go for #bigplays as scum.

Were you not uncomfortable with Refa/Via/Walrein because the hypocrisy of the situation from my eyes was that you found them weird but kept your vote on Rein just like Via did?

Again, asking questions is fine but I just didn't like the tone very much. @Refa it felt like he was forcing himself to ask stuff because that's what is expected of him. This is scummy because scum want to look like they're contributing and force stuff to do so. I know it could be town without a foothold but that's just not how it read to me. Would like @Walrein to comment on BBM/me with any thoughts. Shinori also dances around the stuff regarding my case despite having a read on BBM. Normally one would think he would be interested in my case is his main scumread is BBM. Also would like to see if BBM thinks I'm scummy or not and what he makes of this disgusting chainsaw defence Kappa.

Not interested in Zeus/Soysoy yet as just because they are newbies who dislike D1 doesn't make them scum. I agree that Zeus' responses are weak, self-centred and barebones but it can come from town without confidence and what he says matches up with that. Less knowledgeable about SoySoy, bit distracted right now. I think I need to read their discussion with Athena more in depth.

 

[Shinori]

53 minutes ago, Vi-astra said:

i'm not particularly fond of this cuz for one itp hunting just for the sake of it is scummy (but in this case i can be more forgiving since it's a huge game so the possibility of there being one is mega high) & it's scum-motivated to want me to feel less confident in my townreads for whatever reason available.

Was this in response to me?  Because I wasn't ITP hunting nor do I intend to.  You also know my stance on the subject of speculating ITPs that may or may not exist and how I feel it's completely worthless.  Nor did I even state anything WRT making you feel less confident in your reads?

Like really when do I ever ITP hunt?  The fuck.

[Shinori]

12 hours ago, Vi-astra said:

ughhh i know this is dumb role spec i know but i don't think scum would have both a hydra slot AND a mayor, so one of those has to be town.
because if they had both together it's basically having an extra player, because you've got the extra voice + extra vote.

This implied that you weren't even thinking about the fact of ITP.  And whereas I don't want to hunt for one nor do I want to randomly speculate about ITP being in the game or not I don't think it should just be written off as there being no ITP.  I even agreed with you and stated I feel one of those two roles is probably town myself.

How does me LITERALLY agreeing with you on your town read turn into me trying to make you doubt your town read?

Catching up through these other pages.

[Shinori]

10 hours ago, athena_57 said:

If Walrein has his reasons for voting me that's fair, I'd like them to be on the table though.
Refa's vote is just to lay on pressure, so no point in responding imo.

Iono I feel this mentality towards Walrein is weird.  Overall I will say I disliked Athena's early post complaining about RVS while saying nothing else.  Albeit minor, a few things had actually slightly happened.  An example is the whole BBM/Junko posts that had happened before Athena posted.  Maybe I'm just biased but it stood out to me.

8 hours ago, Zkirsche said:

I don't think Athena would play the exact same way ED1 as scum if he got flak for it last game as he seems to remember getting flak and being self-conscious about it.

I dislike this because it kind of just brushes off Athena's bad play early on.  Humans are creatures of habit and are more often prone to repeating the same mistake again and again.

[Shinori]

19 minutes ago, Zkirsche said:

Shinori also dances around the stuff regarding my case despite having a read on BBM. Normally one would think he would be interested in my case is his main scumread is BBM. 

Huh?

2 hours ago, Shinori said:

Currently reading the thread: Only up to the end of page 3, 4-6 in a bit.  I'm not feeling great so this isn't gonna be super fast.  Hopefully I can have it up in about an hour or so though.

^

8 hours ago, Zkirsche said:

How could you forget our stint as scumbuddies on smogon? I'm hurt. Anyway is Rein the best use of your vote right now? You criticise Via for keeping their vote on RVS yet you're basically doing the same. I also think the way Refa approached this situation ("active players are all townie so I'll sheep one for pressure") is townie but the way you've kinda come in and asked a bunch of questions that you admitted you're doing out of obligation(like with the Via push) just for content looks scummy. This is also different to weapons who has done nothing.

##Unvote
##Vote: BBM

@athena_57 Who is scum? Were you mafia last game?

You should try voting to test this, I think eclipse was only claiming mayor though and that seems to be everyone else's impression so I doubt it.

Page fucking 5.

[Shinori]

I get a bad gut feeling that Athena is kind of just responding to questions and not super actively scum hunting.  Sure he's pressuring Satsuma/poly but it's also kind of mainly him questioning a newer player(I think?).  I'm not really liking it but he's not my top scum read really.  Probably leaning scum here.

I'm not really bothered by BBM outside of the stuff that happened on Page 3.  So Kirsche talking about me recently and my 'read' on BBM pings me.  @Zkirsche Were you kind of skimming my posts?  I don't know how me being iffy of BBM's page 3 stuff is connected to your vote on him on page 5.  You even vote him for different reasons that I was talking about.  Leaning scum here.

Bartozio's vote on Satsuma feels hypocritcal to me.  I also feel like he isn't really talking himself.  His response to Refa even was him quoting Athena and basically using the reasoning that Athena posted.  He also hasn't really commented on anything besides Satsuma/Athena mainly at this point.  I also feel that whole bit with his role pm thing is really off.

##Vote: Bartozio

Bart > Kirsche for me at the moment.

@Bartozio Could you give some thoughts on other players?

[Zkirsche]

My b didn't see that part, playing LoL so I'm sure you can understand.

20 minutes ago, Shinori said:

I dislike this because it kind of just brushes off Athena's bad play early on.  Humans are creatures of habit and are more often prone to repeating the same mistake again and again.

Oof the cynicism. The way they posted makes me feel like they are self-conscious abotu it being read as scum last game so I don't see why they would do it again this game. It's possible but I don't think it's super likely and it's not really enough to get my suspicions arised.

[Shinori]

To be frank I don't think people really read Athena as scum last game. He kind of just got PoE'd.  Some people, like myself, didn't really even read any of his posts until near the end.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

1 hour ago, athena_57 said:

Bandwagoned a train with 1 vote? Not sure whether I'd call that a train tbh.

Abandoned easily? I listed you as one of my two prime suspects, how is that dropping the case? The vote was there to pressure you into giving reads, you made it clear you didn't have/want to say anything else, not much point in keeping it there then.

I am uncertain myself as well, but I'm talking to generate conversations rather than hiding behind my uncertainty.

"Comfy with Bartozio behind you", which is why I said I didn't agree with his reasoning? I made it pretty clear I wasn't agreeing with Bartozio in the sense that I agreed with his reasoning, I merely agreed with his conclusion.

 

This post makes some really weird OMGUS-y attacks.

Train was an exaggerated word to use, I'll admit. I called it a train since the finger of suspicion on me has generated some negative reads on me, though that doesn't really constitute one yet I suppose. My b.

You keep me in the back of your head, sure, but you were still quite quick to retreat and take off your pressure and the vote, even though you said yourself that you were unsatisfied. It's going to look like I'm copying Shinori since they posted before I could while I was pecking at this between breaks, but to me that means you either didn't have much of a case to begin with, or you don't want to get into too much conflict. The former would make me question why you thought a double pressure vote was necessary, but it could be that votes on SF aren't as heavy as where I used to play. The latter would make me think you have something important to hide.

I just found it strange that you say you dislike uncertain players, despite all of us playing a game uncertainty. I am more passive than you though, yes, especially on a first day with no information yet besides the set-up.

I am making a guess on your mentality based on your tone, and my guess was that you want to quickly fit in. Bartozio just happened to be the other guy who voted me, and I'm not accusing you two of being buddies. Though, you don't actually have to agree with him on everything for me to think you're buddies, if I did think so.

I'll let other people judge if I'm OMGUSing you, since if I even try to deflect that label it just devolves into "no u".

2 hours ago, Refa said:

This bothers me.  You're just commenting on things rather than having an opinion on them.  Also don't like your reaction to Athena.  Do you think the way he handled your case was suspect?  It just feels passive aggressive to me.

I do tend to point out things first instead of giving a conclusion quickly, because quite frankly I have yet to reach one. I do think the way Athena let off pressure was strange, as I've been talking about. I just don't know where it will lead me just yet.

[eclipse]

12 hours ago, BBM said:

eclipse I don't understand your logic. if athena is doing something bad and he did it in the last game as well, as scum, doesn't that make him suspicious?

First, it's a sample size of one.  Second, it was also his first game here.  Third, it was done by other people.  It makes for a meta read, but one that is weaker than if I'd put the pressure on myself.  I felt that your jump from content to what appeared to be RVS was more important.

But there's more to work with now.

9 hours ago, zeus_112 said:

My thoughts are that its day 1 and im stupid so it aint a graet idea to vote right now

I really don't like your attitude.

Unless you have a role that allows you to kill other players outside of voting, it is in your best interest to start talking.  Town must lynch scum to win.  This isn't negotiable.  And you're not going to catch scum by sitting on your hands.  Will you screw up?  Probably.  Does it matter if you screw up?  Nope, because casing people takes practice.  So go out there and do something.

Now if you're scum, then please stay silent, so our theoretical vig can remove you from the game.

6 hours ago, Refa said:

BBM's vote and actions are fine if he doesn't have reads, and I don't like how that's being framed as scummy.

That's not why I voted BBM.

3 hours ago, athena_57 said:

Well then, here's your chance at redemption. You said you didn't have any reads on people, but how do you feel about the cases being presented? Are there some you feel have scum intent? Even if you don't have an opinion on the guiltiness of the person in question, do you feel valid points are being made?

There's several types of tells in a game.  Some are hard tells, like someone spilling information that they shouldn't know (say, a claimed BP posting someone else's role).  Others are soft tells, things that are subconsciously done as we play the game.  Your recent posts are responses to people - in other words, passive play.  Yet you're being awfully pushy with your lone read.  This kind of disconnect is a soft tell - in this case, a scum tell.

3 hours ago, zeus_112 said:

sorry: when you've got votes pointed at you

its just a better way to say it I guess :)

My vote counts as two.  Shall I motivate you by placing my vote on you?

3 hours ago, Bartozio said:

Okay, so I managed to screw up reading my role pm. People should not target me with abilities at night.

Your role PM's flavor had better be good.  But it wont' be as good as mine.

1 hour ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

TBH, though I read the whole thread everyone who posted more than two paragraphs all blurred into one and I wasn’t even paying attention to who posted what so I feel like I’m just making the local maxima reads, but ehhh trying hard ED1.

Aren't you glad that Eury hasn't posted a wall yet?

1 hour ago, Zkirsche said:

Not interested in Zeus/Soysoy yet as just because they are newbies who dislike D1 doesn't make them scum. I agree that Zeus' responses are weak, self-centred and barebones but it can come from town without confidence and what he says matches up with that. Less knowledgeable about SoySoy, bit distracted right now. I think I need to read their discussion with Athena more in depth.

Yes, you do need to read that discussion.

---

Now that more people have posted, and I'm not working off of mostly RVS. . .

##Unvote
##Vote: athena_57

It may be a soft tell, but it really bugs me.  That, and I'm reading Satsuma as newbtown (now dissect everyone else's posts).  Not bothered by Bart's BBM-level reading skills in his role PM, nor am I bothered with anyone's votes on Satsuma.  zeus' attitude stinks, and I'd be willing to have him lynched on that alone.  Ever-so-slight scum read on Refa for completely missing the point of my BBM vote.  Not really bugged by anyone else enough to mention it.