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Reinhardt, Thunder's Sword

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Reinhardt, Thunder's Sword

2UmsD4sl.png
"Die."

This quote from Reinhardt from Thracia 666 say's everything about him. Reinhardt seems to have packed away his Dire Thunder tome, and has unsheathed his sidesword to take with him to the battle. Not only can Meisterschwert perform Brave Attacks in the Player Phase, but it can also perform Brave Attacks in the Enemy Phase making Vantage one of the best options for Reinhardt in the B Slot. They found away to make him very similar to his Thracia 776 counterpart.

Level 40 Stats:

HP: 36/40/43
Atk: 32/35/38
Spd: 20/23/26
Def: 28/31/34
Res: 24/28/31

BST: 156~157

Skills:

Weapon: Silver Sword > Meisterschwert
Assist: -
Special: Pavise
A: Death Blow 3
B: Vantage 3
C: Spur Atk 1 > Spur Atk/Def 2
Movement: Cavalry -No access to Infantry Pulse, Wrath, Steady Breath ...etc. Access to Horse Emblem buffs though.

Dire Evil

Spoiler

Nature: +Atk/-Spd (Can't really save his Spd, and it's not worth it trying unless you prepared to rely 100% on Horse Emblem buffs, in which case Life and Death 3 and +Spd nature is wanted, but I wouldn't recommend it.)

Weapon: Meisterschwert
Assist: Reposition, Rally Def/Res, Varies on Team
Special: Bonfire / Aether / Moonbow / Glimmer / Miracle

A: Death Blow 3 / Fierce Stance 3 / Fury 3 / Distant Counter / Brazen Atk/Def 3 / Atk/Def Solo 3
B: Vantage 3 / Swordbreaker 3 / Guard 3 / Desperation 3
C: Varies on Team
SS: Quick Riposte 3 / Heavy Blade 3 / Brash Assault 3

Death Blow 3 + Swordbreaker 3 + Heavy Blade 3 Seal+ Moonbow/ Glimmer/ Aether - Guranteed follow-ups against sword units (that don't run Swordbreaker themselves). Death Blow 3 and Heavy Blade 3 helps Reinhardt proc Special cooldowns faster and more often.

Fierce Stance 3 / Fury 3 / Distant Counter / Brazen Atk/Def 3 + Vantage 3 + Quick Riposte 3 Seal + Bonfire - Fierce Stance 3 is to make Vantage more painful from Reinhardt, while Fury 3 increases his general bulk and gives him an Atk+3 on both PP and EP, and also helps Reinhardt get into the Vantage. Quick Riposte Seal gives him a follow-up attack on the Enemy Phase in addition to the first attack if he's at 75% HP or below. Bonfire deals a heavy guaranteed damage. Distant Counter is to make him even more annoying during the Enemy Phase and counter ranged units with Vantage and QR 3 helping to create an early quad attack, with a Bonfire special that hurts. Brazen Atk/Def 3 gives him a lot more defense to tank melee attacks, as well allowing him to gain a whopping +7 Atk which works in both phases, so also a pretty viable option for him.

Death Blow 3 / Fury 3 + Desperation 3 + Brash Assault 3 Seal + Bonfire - Classic combo that lets Reinhardt get instant and uninterruptible Quads when he initiates combat below 50% HP. Fury 3 can help you bring down Rein's HP to help him Quad, and it gives him Atk +3 for the Enemy Phase as well when he's under attack. Death Blow 3 focuses all of his power when he initiates combat. 

Death Blow 3 + Guard 3 + Heavy Blade 3 Seal + Miracle - For the purposes of making a good Defense build for Arena this build is very trolly. Death Blow 3 with Heavy Blade helps build up an unsuspecting Miracle, which allows team mates with Wings of Mercy or team mates that Reinhardt was supposed to block from coming in to finish the job on careless players.

Atk/Def Solo 3 + Vantage 3 + Quick Riposte 3 Seal - Basically if you're relying on any non Spur buffs for Reinhardt, this skill is basically the best for him, if you can get it. Works in both phases which means Vantage is great here as well as Quick Riposte 3 for those extra quads.

Wallheardt (Tanky Build)

Spoiler

Nature: +Atk/+Res, -Spd

Weapon: Wo Dao+ (Res+) / Slaying Edge+ (Res+) / Safeguard+ (Res+)
Assist: Reposition, Rally Def/Res, Varies on Team
Special: Iceberg / Glacies / Bonfire

A: Distant Counter
B: Quick Riposte 3
C: Varies on Team
SS: Close Defense 3 / Distant Defense 3

Due to his very decent Atk and decent Def and Res stats, Reinhardt can be built into a slow, but very tanky Cavalry unit that can counter enemies both far away and upclose. 

Calculation: Neutral Res = 28, 28 + 4 (Res+ Refine) = 32 Res, With +Atk IV => 45/38/20/31/32 -> It'll take 54 Atk for a Red unit to kill Reinhardt physically and 55 to kill him magically. Fate more Atk is required for Green units. Horse Emblem buffs will raise all of that up, as well Distant Defense 3 Seal and Close Defense 3 Seal.

Wo Dao+ (Res+) + Distant Counter + Iceberg + Quick Riposte 3 + Close Defense 3 Seal - Blue mages will hurt Reinhardt without a doubt because they usually have such high Atk so Close Defense 3 Seal is your best bet with this build, but Distant Defense 3 does help him win some kills, and it certainly helps against Bladetome Ninos. Whether you use Wo Dao and Iceberg or Slaying Edge and Glacies, they both give off about the same amount of damage so it doesn't matter that much in the Arena. Iceberg is a three turn cooldown so it should proc if Reinhardt gets doubled, and is also able to do a follow-up thanks to Quick Riposte. Give Reinhardt some Fortify and Hone Cavalry buffs on the field to see big results!

Safeguard+ (Res+) + Distant Counter + Bonfire + Quick Riposte 3 + Close Defense 3 / Distant Defense 3 Seals - Essentially this gives Reinhardt insane Def when under attack, while focusing on his Res to help him fight dragons and ward off mages. Close Defense 3 Seal is better for more coverage against dragons and lances, while Distant Defense 3 Seal is better for dealing with bows in addition to more mages.

Edited by Ae†her

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1 hour ago, Ae†her said:

SS: Close Counter 3 / Distant Counter 3

These are not seals

Also where's the Meisterschwert DC/Vantage build? You'd think that would be a selling point when it's brave on both phases.

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6 minutes ago, X-Naut said:

These are not seals

Also where's the Meisterschwert DC/Vantage build? You'd think that would be a selling point when it's brave on both phases.

I just haven't written it yet, and the Counter instead of Defense was just a typo.

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For the Vantage/QR build, I was checking numbers, and if Rein has -HP, one ardent sacrifice is always guaranteed to get him into that tiny range of 70-75% HP from +0 to +10 which'd guarantee him four attacks in the space an enemy gets one if I'm understanding the interaction between QR and Vantage correctly. That might be a little too silly to really be of much use practically but I thought it was interesting.

Edited by bottlegnomes

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I can't help but wonder if Defiant Attack isn't a good option for him... Though it's basically useless if he has any teammates with Hone Cav, I think it's worth mentioning since 1) it synergizes with Vantage rather well (albeit not at quite the same HP range, 50% VS 75%), and 2) it's the only skill that provides as big or comparable a boost to Death Blow / Fierce Stance but on BOTH phases. 

Actually, if you're running a Cav team with one of each buff, and Rein himself is the one who packs Hone Cav, Defiant Atk still works on him (not like he needs the speed from Hone, is it). Distant Counter also seems really good on him though, I think my personal choice for him would be between those two. 

Also, I think @bottlegnomes' point about the -HP IV + ArdSac thing seems definitely worth mentioning on the analysis proper; the ability to reliably get into that really specific range seems really useful IMO. 

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3 hours ago, bottlegnomes said:

For the Vantage/QR build, I was checking numbers, and if Rein has -HP, one ardent sacrifice is always guaranteed to get him into that tiny range of 70-75% HP from +0 to +10 which'd guarantee him four attacks in the space an enemy gets one if I'm understanding the interaction between QR and Vantage correctly. That might be a little too silly to really be of much use practically but I thought it was interesting.

Vantage is meant to be a counter to simply getting one shotted by an enemy at lower HP thresholds. It's a defense mechanism more than an offensive mechanism. Quick Riposte is just good whenever he is attacked. Maybe if you really needed to get QR 3 and the Vantage on the Enemy Phase for a certain map, then I guess it could be useful for that. 

2 hours ago, BANRYU said:

I can't help but wonder if Defiant Attack isn't a good option for him... Though it's basically useless if he has any teammates with Hone Cav, I think it's worth mentioning since 1) it synergizes with Vantage rather well (albeit not at quite the same HP range, 50% VS 75%), and 2) it's the only skill that provides as big or comparable a boost to Death Blow / Fierce Stance but on BOTH phases. 

Actually, if you're running a Cav team with one of each buff, and Rein himself is the one who packs Hone Cav, Defiant Atk still works on him (not like he needs the speed from Hone, is it). Distant Counter also seems really good on him though, I think my personal choice for him would be between those two. 

Also, I think @bottlegnomes' point about the -HP IV + ArdSac thing seems definitely worth mentioning on the analysis proper; the ability to reliably get into that really specific range seems really useful IMO. 

Defiant Attack gets completely outshined by Brazen Atk/Def 3. Defiants are not even worth it anymore unless the game releases a Defiant Atk/Spd, in which case it'll be good for Bladetomes.

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2 minutes ago, Ae†her said:

Vantage is meant to be a counter to simply getting one shotted by an enemy at lower HP thresholds. It's a defense mechanism more than an offensive mechanism. Quick Riposte is just good whenever he is attacked. Maybe if you really needed to get QR 3 and the Vantage on the Enemy Phase for a certain map, then I guess it could be useful for that.

Oh, yeah, like I said, it might be a little silly to be actually meaningfully useful. He'd be able to take a hit from 56 physical attack and 53 magical attack which aren't low, but they're not especially difficult to reach with buffs and everything. About the only case I can think of where it'd actually be all that useful is a tanky enemy with decent speed, but not a ton of attack. Mostly I thought it was interesting.

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29 minutes ago, Ae†her said:

Vantage is meant to be a counter to simply getting one shotted by an enemy at lower HP thresholds. It's a defense mechanism more than an offensive mechanism. Quick Riposte is just good whenever he is attacked. Maybe if you really needed to get QR 3 and the Vantage on the Enemy Phase for a certain map, then I guess it could be useful for that. 

Defiant Attack gets completely outshined by Brazen Atk/Def 3. Defiants are not even worth it anymore unless the game releases a Defiant Atk/Spd, in which case it'll be good for Bladetomes.

ooh yeah fair point, I completely forgot about the Brazens.

Although, still... If we're speaking realistically, not everyone can necessarily get their hands on Brazen :o I do definitely think that's the hands-down best option for Vantage Rein's A-slot but failing a player's.... admittedly understandable inability to get their hands on that, I'd argue Defiant Atk is worth mentioning as a budget option along with Death Blow.

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10 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

ooh yeah fair point, I completely forgot about the Brazens.

Although, still... If we're speaking realistically, not everyone can necessarily get their hands on Brazen :o I do definitely think that's the hands-down best option for Vantage Rein's A-slot but failing a player's.... admittedly understandable inability to get their hands on that, I'd argue Defiant Atk is worth mentioning as a budget option along with Death Blow.

Defiant Atk acts as a buff so you'd have to wait for the start of the turn and be at 50% or less HP for it to work. At 50% HP Reinhardt is incredibly easy to kill especially considering a lot of tankier red and especially blue units will be able to take the 56x2, and just straight up murk Reinhardt in one hit. Not to mention Defiant Atk is easily susceptible to Panic Ploys, and your basically getting the same kind of boost from Hone Cavalry buffs. It's a lot more hassle to use than Blow or Stance skills or even Fury 3, and you're already giving up immediate power in the Quick Riposte 3 range and at 100% HP battles, so that's also wasted potential right there. You can use it if you want, but I don't think I could really recommend it for Reinman. Your giving up too much power at the start for easily reproducible buffs at such a low HP threshold. 

Brazen's are expensive of course, but they're definitely still worth mentioning, and they are just straight-up superior to Defiants for the most part. You never know when they might become more readily available for Skill Inheritance too, so there's no point in recommending weaker substitutes that have less viability than other alternative options. 

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Have you thought about a troll an educational build for WOT!Reinhardt on defense teams? I still get around 10 wins per week from my defense team, and I suspect that my regular Reinhardt with Wings of Mercy have something to do with it. Clearly, players need more lessons on dealing with Wings of Mercy.

WOT!Reinhardt +Atk -Spd
Meisterschwert, Miracle
Death Blow, Guard
Heavy Blade

Assuming he does not die on the first counter, he will survive the second counter with Miracle, which should mean that his Wings of Mercy teammates can swoop in for the kill.

1 hour ago, Ae†her said:

Defiants are not even worth it anymore unless the game releases a Defiant Atk/Spd, in which case it'll be good for Bladetomes.

Defiant Atk/Spd would still be pretty bad though. Blade mages have no reason to use Defiant Atk/Spd if it meant trashing their first round of combat for just meh performance in their second round and beyond. Brazen Atk/Spd already have first round performance issues, but it somewhat makes up for it by buffing the user with combat buffs so that it can stacked with field buffs from allies.

If Defiant Atk/Spd gives Atk/Spd +10, then maybe it would be usable.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, XRay said:

Have you thought about a troll an educational build for WOT!Reinhardt on defense teams? I still get around 10 wins per week from my defense team, and I suspect that my regular Reinhardt with Wings of Mercy have something to do with it. Clearly, players need more lessons on dealing with Wings of Mercy.

WOT!Reinhardt +Atk -Spd
Meisterschwert, Miracle
Death Blow, Guard
Heavy Blade

Assuming he does not die on the first counter, he will survive the second counter with Miracle, which should mean that his Wings of Mercy teammates can swoop in for the kill.

Defiant Atk/Spd would still be pretty bad though. Blade mages have no reason to use Defiant Atk/Spd if it meant trashing their first round of combat for just meh performance in their second round and beyond. Brazen Atk/Spd already have first round performance issues, but it somewhat makes up for it by buffing the user with combat buffs so that it can stacked with field buffs from allies.

If Defiant Atk/Spd gives Atk/Spd +10, then maybe it would be usable.

No I haven't, but I was actually hoping for suggestions like these. The power of quad attacking is amazing, I'll add the Miracle build, and also because the usage of Guard there is also amazing.

As for Defiant on bladetomes, yes, I agree it's still not worth it because the HP activation is too low, and lowers performance above 50% HP. That's primarily why I wouldn't consider it on Reinhardt either.

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Conceded on the Defiant thing. 

Another thing to maybe consider: Brash Desp player phase Rein? Kinda gives up the enemy phase utility of his weapon which isn't ideal, but I think there's something to be said for the units who can start tanky and turn into quadding hypercannons. 

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On 4/21/2018 at 11:44 PM, BANRYU said:

Conceded on the Defiant thing. 

Another thing to maybe consider: Brash Desp player phase Rein? Kinda gives up the enemy phase utility of his weapon which isn't ideal, but I think there's something to be said for the units who can start tanky and turn into quadding hypercannons. 

Yeah, that works. I'll add it.

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Added Safeguard+ in Wallheardt build section. The final touch to it I'd say.

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