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DragonFlames

Thoughts and feelings on Pokémon as a franchise (Warning! Long)

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I have had a lot of my real life friends (all 3 of them) asking me how I feel about Pokémon recently, as I have kept quiet on the subject, because I felt like it didn't really need mentioning. But Pokémon has always been really close to my heart ever since it first came out over here and so today, I have decided to finally get things off my chest. I won't bore you with how Pokémon basically saved me from comitting suicide as a child or how I would always feel better when I played the games and watched the original series. This is purely my thoughts and feelings on the progression of the series as a whole, concentrated on the games, because I haven't been following the Anime since Diamond and Pearl The Animation came out (and sucked some major league balls).

Because I have to be honest here: I really do not like the direction the franchise is taking anymore and I can't see myself supporting it any longer. In fact, I have pretty much quit playing Pokémon some 2-3 years ago. I still play the games sometimes, but not as regularly as I used to. And here are my reasons why. You can feel free to disagree with me, of course, because that's what opinions are here for after all, but hear me out first.

 

Why I quit playing Pokémon

It's difficult to pin it down to one reason, because there are several reasons. I think the biggest one is that Pokémon can be really frustrating at times and as much as I loved it, it is THE major party responsible for lowering my frustration tolerance to dangerously low levels.

Natures play a big part in this. They have been introduced in Gen 3 because the developers thought to add some more variety and personality to the creatures, which is nice… on paper. In practice, it's just one of many examples of „innovation where it wasn't needed“ to me. Imagine this, you roam around a cave for hours, trying to find a Bagon – a very rare Dragon type Pokémon that evolves into Salamence, one of my all time favourites – and you finally find one. You're ecstatic! After hours upon hours of nothing but Lunatones and Golbats, you finally see the Pokémon you were looking for. You weaken it, you catch it, maybe it breaks out of the Poké Balls a few times (which is in itself INCREDIBLY frustrating) then you check it's stat screen and see a Nature that lowers it's Speed, one of Salamence's most important stats. Worse still, it's male so in a Ditto-less environment (which Ruby and Sapphire was until FireRed and LeafGreen came along) you can't even breed the thing to get a different nature.

That's awful, isn't it? You have this super cool Pokémon, but you can't really do anything with it because it has a terrible Nature. There are more examples of this: Adamant Abras, Modest Machops, you name it. No one in their right mind would train a Swellow with an Attack-impeding Nature and yet the game just LOVES to throw these wrong Natures at you, especially when rare Pokémon are concerned.

Next is the stupid EV (Effort Value) system Ruby and Sapphire introduced. In case you are not aware, Effort Values are hidden values that determine a Pokémon's stats. You can have up to 255 EVs in any given stat, but you can only have a maximum of 510 EVs in total. And to get EVs, you need to kill a certain Pokémon that gives the EVs you want. For example, if you want to train Speed, you have to kill a whole bunch of Zubat.

So what does that mean, exactly? You can only max out two stats at any given time, leaving your other stats in the dust and if you want to stand even a tiny chance in the Battle Frontier / Maison / whatever the hell or god forbid, competitive battling, you will NEED EV-trained Pokémon.

What this does, aside from adding much unneded frustration because you trained a stat you didn't want (say, Special Attack on a Haxorus), is break the balance of the games even more, because it favours Pokémon with specialized bases over the ones with balanced bases. So this cool Blastoise you have with the same Attack and Special Attack stats? Yeah, that thing isn't worth anything anymore.

What I think the most offensive about this is that the games didn't even tell you this until X & Y with Super Training. To know this, you had to buy a guide (and even these things only got into small detail of what EVs are) or look it up on the internet to get an explanation from people who found out via reverse engineering, which is illegal, by the way.

So this valuable information that you absolutely NEED to complete the game is just hidden from you. That's terrible game design, nothing more.

By the by, EV-trained Pokémon don't guarantee that you win in any Battle Frontier-like institution, oh no! The sad fact is that your skill at the game doesn't matter in the slightest! All you need is a crap-ton of luck the A.I. doesn't counter your Pokémon exactly, which it is liable to do, because the A.I. knows exactly what Pokémon you bring, what Moves and Items they have and what kind of strategy you employ and WILL react accordingly to that.

Have a Dragon-type that is central to your strategy? Suddenly, a crap-ton of Fairies or Ice-types will show up. Have a Steel-type to counter them? The A.I. will do it's damndest to make sure to get rid of it before sending in its Fairies / Icies.

And then there's the usual spiel of your attacks constantly missing, the A.I. hitting every single attack, no matter how inaccurate, getting crits on you in just the right moments and surviving blows that for all intends and purposes should have been lethal.

This is the game actively screwing with you. It has nothing to do with fair difficulty, winning in the Battle Maison and any similar thing isn't something you can brag about, because in the end, it had nothing to do with how strong your Pokémon were. You won, because the game let you win.

And the worst part: This unfair bullsh** started all the way back in Gen 2 with Stadium 2 on the N64. Then Pokémon Crystal introduced the first Battle Tower and it all went downhill from there.

It's not like the Battle Institutions are the only sources of fake difficulty or unfairness, by the way. From Pokémon in evolutionary stages their level would normally not allow to Pokémon knowing Moves they shouldn't to Pokémon just refusing to stay inside Poké Balls, the main games themselves have a lot of examples. Let's start with the first point.

Underlevelled Pokémon:

This is one is easy. Do you know Dragonite? The Dragon Pokémon that only evolves into Dragonite at level 55? Do you know Lance and have you played Gold, Silver and Crystal or HeartGold and SoulSilver? Then you probably know where I am going with this.

Lance, the Champion of the Pokémon League, has 3 Dragonites. Two at level 47, one at level 50. All three of them should be Dragonairs, but they're not. Why? Well, because the developers thought it would be a good idea to make it almost impossible to level up your Pokémon in Johto, so they had to make the Elite 4 and Champion weaker to compensate. It would have been reasonable were the Dragonites at level 57 and 60 respectively, but then no single player would have stood a chance because for whatever reason the second Generation still throws level 10 Pokémon at you when you are past the point of getting your fifth Gym Badge.

Grinding and enemy progression frankly sucked in Gen 2 sucked and it sucked even more in the remakes, because Gen 4 is slow as as hell, because GameFreak apparently sucked at optimizing and basic programming to make the game run at a decent speed during that time.

Pokémon knowing Moves they shouldn't:

For this one, we're going into Gen 6 this time, more specifically, to X and Y. Team Flare Boss Lysandre's signature Pokémon is a Gyarados and that thing knows Iron Head and Outrage, two Moves that it could only learn via Move Tutor in Black 2 / White 2 at the time of X and Y's release, meaning a player could never have access to these Moves on their own Gyarados if they caught it in the Kalos region.

Newer players wouldn't even know that these Moves could be taught to Gyarados in older games, meaning they are forever stuck wondering how and where Lysandre's Gyarados got these two attacks. Gen 6 players finally got access to them when ORAS got released, but until then, Lysandre's Gyarados was the only one in the entirety of Kalos that knew Iron Head and Outrage.

And before anyone mentions it: there is no evidence to suggest Lysandre visited Unova even once in his life, so his Gyarados knowing Iron Head and Outrage when it really shouldn't is nothing but player screwage over on the developers part.

The same goes for any enemy Pokémon that knows Event only attacks or TMs it could only learn in past / future generations.

An example: There is a guy in Pokémon Battle Revolution, a Gen 4 game on the Wii who uses a Zapdos that knows Extrasensory, a Move it can only have if you catch and purify the Shadow Zapdos in Pokémon XD Gale of Darkness, a Gen 3 game. So players who haven't played Gen 3 and started with Gen 4 would never know where that Zapdos got access to Extrasensory, similar to Lysandre's Gyarados example above.

If these examples are too „flimsy“ for you: In Gen 2, Lance's Aerodactyl (yes, it's the same Lance. That guy is player-screwage incarnate) knows Rock Slide, a Move it couldn't learn until Gen 3, where it was Move Tutor exclusive.

Pokémon refusing to stay inside the Poké Ball:

This one is incredibly easy, let me just ask you one single question:

Where is the fun in needing to throw 50 Hyper Balls at a legendary Pokémon to catch it?

It's not difficult, it's not satisfying. You don't raise your arms in happiness when it finally lands, you just go „Ugh, finally.“ It just takes time. It's not hard, it's just a major waste of time, that's all there is to it.

Even worse when, after all that effort, the Pokémon you painstakingly caught (and wasted a lot of money on, because those Hyper Balls ain't cheap, yo) has a crappy Nature and IV spread.

Yes, game, I am so very happy with my Calm Zekrom with zero IV in Attack and Speed. Thank you so much! /s

 

Pokémon (Ultra)Sun and Pokémon (Ultra)Moon

After the series peaked in Gen 5 and then went straight off a cliff in ORAS, I had little hope Sun and Moon would be able to reel me back in. Needless to say, what little hope there was was squashed the moment Sun and Moon announced more details about itself. Let's start with the biggest one: the new Pokémon.

To be frank, I don't like a single one of them. Even now as I look at them, I can't find a single one that makes me say: “Yes, this is really cool!“

And the Pokémon designs – like it or not – have always been a big part of Pokémon's appeal as a franchise. Granted, there are some okay designs in there, but nothing groundbreaking, nothing that would get me hyped to use them in battle, see them attacking and moving. My reactions to the newer Pokémon range from an irresistible urge to vomit to cold indiffernce.

For a franchise as big as Pokémon with as many characters as Pokémon, mediocre just doesn't cut it anymore. Call me entitled if you want, but if I have to spend €45 on a game, I want the game to be better than just “okay”. And if a big part of its appeal sucks, then why should I bother with it?

“But you can catch older Pokémon. Just use those!”

Yeah, like I can do in X and Y? Like I can do in FireRed and LeafGreen? Games I already have? Games I don't need to spend money on because I already bought them? You mean like that?

This is in fact one of the major fallacies of the Pokémon franchise. With including older Pokémon in the newer games, you also have to include all of that old baggage as well. Ways to evolve Pokémon, shiny forms, gender differences, models, signature moves… all of that stuff that just continually fills up space and leaves less room for new things, for true innovation.

While I really truly love many of the older Pokémon, I was so happy to not see a single older Pokémon in Pokémon Black when I first played it (even if some of the newer Pokémon in that Gen are rather blatant rip-offs of older Pokémon) and I can to this day remember my disappointment at seeing an Absol after I beat the Pokémon League, one of my favourite Dark-type Pokémon, mind you.

It's just GameFreak that doesn't have the balls to say “Screw it! There is only the new Pokémon now!” Either that, or they don't want to create new Pokémon anymore and just throw the old stuff at us.

“But there are Alola Forms of older Pokémon! Those are new!”

Yes, and aside from Vulpix, Ninetales and Marowak, all of them are ugly as sin and / or what I can only assume are sad, unsuccessful attempts at making a joke.

And Zygarde's new forms are literally Cell from Dragon Ball Z, all the way down to how he achieves these forms.

“But Solgaleo is cool!”
Oh, you mean that Steel / Psychic-type legendary Pokémon? Remember Metagross, Jirachi and Bronzong? Yeah, I'll always prefer these three.

And as far as lion-like Pokémon go, I'll take my Entei and Pyroar, thanks.

As for Pokémon that look like Chinese guardian lions / dogs, there is Arcanine and Entei both.

“But Lunala is so awesome!”

Yeah, a Psychic / Ghost-type. That thing that has a double weakness to both Dark and Ghost-type Moves… Moves that are conveniently common among legendary Pokémon and normal Pokémon alike Have you seen how many Pokémon learn Shadow Claw, Shadow Ball, Dark Pulse, Crunch and Night Slash? This thing wouldn't stand for two seconds against any Pokémon with these kinds of attacks. That's not even mentioning Yveltal and Darkrai, who will utterly destroy Lunala the second it shows its derpy face.

It's also based on a bat, as if Crobat, Swoobat and Noivern weren't enough bats already.

And a legendary Pokémon that has something to do with the crescent moon also already exists. It's name is Cresselia from the oh so precious fourth Generation.

“Bu---!”

I liked Necrozma more when its name was Kyurem.

His ultimate form also looks like a seven year old child's rendition of the final boss of 7th Dragon III Code:VFD, so it's not like that's anything original or particularly special, either.


The next point on my list is the character design of the humans.

It's bad, close to unbearable even. They all look like the elevator doesn't go to the higher floors anymore, if you catch my drift, and in addition, most of them just look so very punchable. If I have the urge to punch my own character in the face, then you know something is wrong. The one character design I would consider halfway decent is Lillie's. And from what I've seen and read, she's waifu / loli-bait, so that's a thing.


And now we get into the Z-Moves.

Aside from the name sounding like a bad Dragon Ball Z motion control game, I liked these things better when they were called Mystic Artes and Limit Breaks. Because Pokémon didn't invent that shit. The Tales of series and Final Fantasy franchise have been doing that for years now and I am sure finishing moves of this kind appeared in other JRPGs as well, so what makes them so special here?

Besides the lethal amount of cringing that little dance the trainer does before activating one of those Moves induces into me, I mean.


The last thing I want to mention for now is the music. Boy, is it ever awful. ORAS was saved by its stellar soundtrack, even if the regression in graphics and tacked on Mega Evolution bogged it down and nose-dived it straight off a cliff. The music, at the very least, was amazing, both old and new tracks. Special shoutouts to this masterpiece.

Sun and Moon doesn't even have that. I listened to the entirety of the soundtrack and there wasn't a single track that stood out in a good way. It stood out, sure, but only by almost forcing me to visit a doctor because of how much figurative blood streamed out of my ears afterwards. I thought Gen 4's battle music was awful and annoying, but Sun and Moon blows it out of the water, spin kicks it and suplexes it right back in, especially with this.

The one thing Gen 7 did right is getting rid of those stupidly useless HM Moves that should be natural abilities for Pokémon.

I promise you, HM Moves will be back come Gen 8.

Now, I'm sure some of you will call me out on my points, and rightfully so, since I haven't played Sun, Moon or their sequels, but I did play the demo and I was never in my life more bored out of my skull during gameplay before. I also watched some gameplay videos and they all brought me to the same conclusion: The Alola region is so blandand forgettable it's not even funny. Worst thing about this is that there is a Pokémon game out there that gets the whole tropical island thing miles better than Sun and Moon could ever hope and that's Pokémon Ranger Guardian Signs. To add insult to injury, there is an entire tropical area in Tales of Berseria that feels like a giant middle finger to Alola, since the two games came out at similar times.

So yeah, I don't have any intention of ever buying or playing Sun and Moon or their cash-grab sequels.

Sorry if this is a bit lengthy (it's 5 pages of script, gosh darn it!) and sorry if it is a bit harsh, but I felt like getting my opinion out there. As I said in the beginning, feel free to agree or disagree with me. I would nevertheless love to hear your thoughts on this subject.

With love, DragonFlames

I also have no idea where something like this goes. I first assumed into the Pokémon section, but I am not so sure. Mods, feel free to move or delete it, if I put it into the wrong subforum.

P.S. Digimon is better. Both anime and game-wise. Peace!

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Well, okay, I respect your opinion, although I'm divisive when it comes to later Generations' Pokémon designs. I could probably name only a few Gen V-VII Pokémon that I actually like. Vanilluxe, Lunala, and a few others when compared to the vast selection of favorites from Gen I-IV.

As for the music, you may think it's crappy, and I respect that, but I would take it any day over the shitty pop music songwriters pump out these days.

On EVs and Natures, I agree. Those things are annoying, along with IVs. Imagine if FE units had randomly generated stat variations, forcing you to constantly reset to gain the absolute optimal variation. Once I had a Bellsprout who gained no speed for around ten levels or so, despite me pitting it against Speed EV Pokémon.

Another issue is the power creep, alongside the hardcore competitive folk. There are just so many Pokémon that people like for their design and whatnot that get utterly screwed by competitive play. For example, I've established that I love Vanilluxe, but these days 110 Special Attack and 79 Speed is relatively minuscule. A friend told me that if Vanilluxe existed back in Gen I/II/III (with Levitate if it was Gen III), it probably would've been OU by Smogon standards.

Z-Moves were a bad idea, in my opinion. They should have added more Megas instead of this one-use-only crap. Can you imagine what it would be like if your legendary weapons in FE could only be used once per chapter? Yeah, that's what it feels like.

I think Pokémon peaked around Gen III or Gen V. Gen III gives me nostalgia as that's when I started getting into Pokémon, and I commend the GBA ROMs for being highly malleable.

To be honest, I had more fun going through the Alola games than X and Y. At least it was challenging this time.

I think that Pokémon's downfall is the result of a series dragging on too long without really keeping it fresh. Final Fantasy shares this problem, as I think that the later games (VII-XV) are too anime for my tastes. Why couldn't they just go back to the good old days of classical fantasy?

Every work of fiction has its flaws, even Pokémon. I'm sure some people would agree.

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Pokemon used to be my favorite video game series of all time then Fire Emblem dethroned it and then Xeno dethroned it  but while Pokemon isn't even Top 5 for me anymore, i still enjoy it quite a bit. My first game was Pokemon White version (my actual first introduction to the series was Pokemon Rumble Blast, reminding me how Mario Party 8 was my first Mario game ever) and i'm looking forward to Pokemon Switch, even if i am keeping my expectations low after the disappointment that was Ultra Sun&Ultra Moon. I still have many fond memories of my childhood regarding this series. I remember being extremely happy when i found someone willing to trade me over a Victin (because i got the game for Christmas, which means i missed the Victini Event, which reminds me, Events are bullshit but i'll get on that later). I remember looking forward to every Saturday to watch the Pokemon anime (specifically, the Black&White anime, which is nowhere near as good as i remember it). Hell, my username originates from a fake Dragon/Fighting type Pokemon i drew (and then we finally got one in Sun&Moon). I remember binge-watching the entire Pokemon anime (this was before X/Y) and the XY&Z arc is probably my favorite Pokemon anime arc. And if we go into spin-off territory, Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky is one of my favorite games of all time and Dialga's Fight to the Finish is one of the best final boss themes in gaming. Like, Mystery Dungeon doesn't have a whole lot of memorable songs but listening to Dialga's Fight to the Finish just brings back the memories (and it's blasphemy that this song ain't in Smash). 

There are some parts of the series that i don't like though. The EXP Share in OR/AS made the game game-journalist, baby-mode easy. Leveling up in Gen 4 takes a God damn eternity. The Battle Institutes kinda suck. I mean, i was able to beat all of them except the Battle Tree, which i guarantee is rigged. And overall, just the fact that each new Gen adds in at least 80 new Pokemon makes my dream of filling out the National Dex further out of reach, even though i've played most of the Gens and have transferred everything to the current Gen. I don't like OR/AS and Ultra Sun&Ultra Moon are making it so you can catch every Legendary. All that does is devalue their roles as Legendaries. Oh, and the constant Gen 1 pandering needs to stop especially since Gen 1 is the worst Gen 1.

 

That said, there are somethings that i am willing to defend.

47 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

Natures play a big part in this. They have been introduced in Gen 3 because the developers thought to add some more variety and personality to the creatures, which is nice… on paper. In practice, it's just one of many examples of „innovation where it wasn't needed“ to me. Imagine this, you roam around a cave for hours, trying to find a Bagon – a very rare Dragon type Pokémon that evolves into Salamence, one of my all time favourites – and you finally find one. You're ecstatic! After hours upon hours of nothing but Lunatones and Golbats, you finally see the Pokémon you were looking for. You weaken it, you catch it, maybe it breaks out of the Poké Balls a few times (which is in itself INCREDIBLY frustrating) then you check it's stat screen and see a Nature that lowers it's Speed, one of Salamence's most important stats. Worse still, it's male so in a Ditto-less environment (which Ruby and Sapphire was until FireRed and LeafGreen came along) you can't even breed the thing to get a different nature.

That's awful, isn't it? You have this super cool Pokémon, but you can't really do anything with it because it has a terrible Nature. There are more examples of this: Adamant Abras, Modest Machops, you name it. No one in their right mind would train a Swellow with an Attack-impeding Nature and yet the game just LOVES to throw these wrong Natures at you, especially when rare Pokémon are concerned.

Next is the stupid EV (Effort Value) system Ruby and Sapphire introduced. In case you are not aware, Effort Values are hidden values that determine a Pokémon's stats. You can have up to 255 EVs in any given stat, but you can only have a maximum of 510 EVs in total. And to get EVs, you need to kill a certain Pokémon that gives the EVs you want. For example, if you want to train Speed, you have to kill a whole bunch of Zubat.

So what does that mean, exactly? You can only max out two stats at any given time, leaving your other stats in the dust and if you want to stand even a tiny chance in the Battle Frontier / Maison / whatever the hell or god forbid, competitive battling, you will NEED EV-trained Pokémon.

What this does, aside from adding much unneded frustration because you trained a stat you didn't want (say, Special Attack on a Haxorus), is break the balance of the games even more, because it favours Pokémon with specialized bases over the ones with balanced bases. So this cool Blastoise you have with the same Attack and Special Attack stats? Yeah, that thing isn't worth anything anymore.

What I think the most offensive about this is that the games didn't even tell you this until X & Y with Super Training. To know this, you had to buy a guide (and even these things only got into small detail of what EVs are) or look it up on the internet to get an explanation from people who found out via reverse engineering, which is illegal, by the way.

So this valuable information that you absolutely NEED to complete the game is just hidden from you. That's terrible game design, nothing more.

The thing about Natures and EVs and IVs is, they only matter if you're trying to get into competitive. It's like in Melee. If you want to get into competitive Melee, you need to learn how to Wavedash, L-cancel and then main any of the Top 8 characters because everyone else sucks. But if you don't care about competitive, then Wavedashing and other advance techniques mean jack shit. Same deal with Pokemon. I'm not into competitive. I have a Shiny Zororak, which is my favorite Pokemon of all time, and it's EVs and IVs are terrible. But i don't care. I'm just glad i have it. It's also why in FE Heroes, i don't give a damn about IVs. I just want the character. 

 

52 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

This one is incredibly easy, let me just ask you one single question:

Where is the fun in needing to throw 50 Hyper Balls at a legendary Pokémon to catch it?

It's not difficult, it's not satisfying. You don't raise your arms in happiness when it finally lands, you just go „Ugh, finally.“ It just takes time. It's not hard, it's just a major waste of time, that's all there is to it.

Even worse when, after all that effort, the Pokémon you painstakingly caught (and wasted a lot of money on, because those Hyper Balls ain't cheap, yo) has a crappy Nature and IV spread.

Yes, game, I am so very happy with my Calm Zekrom with zero IV in Attack and Speed. Thank you so much! /s

I get where you're coming from but i'd be raising an eyebrow if Legendaries were super easy to catch (not counting version mascots). Making them easy to catch kinda goes against the whole point of "Legendary". And again, Natures and IVs don't matter outside of competitive and Zekrom's banned anyway. I'm pretty sure he is.

 

56 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

While I really truly love many of the older Pokémon, I was so happy to not see a single older Pokémon in Pokémon Black when I first played it (even if some of the newer Pokémon in that Gen are rather blatant rip-offs of older Pokémon)

Ok so like, this one complaint i never understood, because (at the time) there were 649 Pokemon and now there's like 800 of them. I wouldn't go as far as saying blatant rip-off (is it a rip-off in the first place if it's part of the same series?) but of course you're gonna run into look-alikes.

Anyway, those are my takes on it. Feel free to agree or disagree.

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Sorry for the double post, but it's not letting me edit my post (something something "too much time had passed" even though i literally just posted it). This is what i meant to edit in

Quote

Events are bullshit because if you miss them, too bad. I thought they learned their lesson with Magearna but then they went back to their timed bullshit with Dusk Lycanroc.

 

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27 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Pokemon used to be my favorite video game series of all time then Fire Emblem dethroned it

This accurately describes me Xeno is probably 2nd or 3rd after FE because Valkyria Chronicles exists

Anyways, I used to be a massive pokemon nut my entire life, which lasted until I got into FE. I still played it for a while As seen by my avatar being Lucario, which is only because back then I went by the name online, but after gen 6 ended I stopped being interested. I picked up Sun eventually, took forever to beat it, and even longer to do the postgame (which was the only enjoyable part in my eyes). And this is coming from a guy who 100% the gen 6 pokedex and got OR/AS launch day and beat AS that weekend. I also grew up with the anime, and though I technically started playing pokemon in gen 3, it was firered, so it felt was basically gen 1 and coincided with the original anime I watched a lot. I watched nearly every season (minus some gen 6 seasons and I'm still avoiding gen 7s) and picked up and played nearly every main pokemon game that came out since Platinum, which was how I shifted from a young fan to a now former diehard. I even went back and got several older games, Yellow, Blue, Gold, Silver, and Emerald. But I was getting out of it towards the end of gen 6, and what I think ended it for me was the pokemon anime. I skipped most of gen 6 due to life happening but I came back and watched the final league battle, and Ash losing made me realize or rather accept that Ash will forever be a posterboy of the series and will always redo the entire cycle just for money reasons. That turned me away so much I basically quit everything. And I'll give gen 8 a shot maybe, at least I'll try to fairly judge it and then decide whether to get it or not, but mostly I'll only get a pokemon game again if its gen 4 remakes or a new ranger game (loved that spinoff series).

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Okay, you started out great but as you continued it started to sound more like nitpicks. Maybe it was the way it read, maybe it's me.

Natures, IVs, and EVs only matter if you go into competitive. No they're NOT required for beating the game. I have beaten every single one and never once checked any of that crap because I don't care. If it was actually required for beating the game then yeah, that would be sucky and they'd need to fix it.

The anime itself is kinda crap after Diamond/Pearl but the movies are still fine and, besides, the anime is for kids not teenagers or adults. So yeah, to the older generations it will probably suck. Let the kids enjoy the newer stuff, you enjoy the older stuff, and be happy that they're keeping the series alive.

Underleveled pokemon and ones knowing moves that they can learn in other generations is not that big of a deal. It's just not. The underleveled thing is actually to the player's benefit and occurs in a game with TWO Leagues. They had to do something so you didn't curbstomp the other side and level 100 is the max. Remember these games are still supposed to be accessible to kids.

... pokemon not staying in the ball is a core mechanic, has been since Gen 1, you are the only person I have ever heard complain about it. It makes sense. A level 80 legendary should NOT be easy to catch. Rare/strong pokemon are going to fight being caught. It makes sense.

Now, here is where I start to take offense because you're not criticizing you're exaggerating. You do realize most of the older games had absolutely crap pokemon designs right? Like... literal sludge. Literally. Grimer. Also random birds. The only good early bird is Fletchinder. That's it.

If you don't like the new designs, fine. But they're no better or worse than literally any other generation and, personally, I really like a lot of the new designs. They're fun to use in battle and Ribombee is adorable.

The character designs are fine. Actually the character designs are one of the praised parts of the new games (apart from your character's blank smile). The music is fine. No it didn't "make your ears bleed". Also people don't get to insult pokemon for having no creativity and in the same breath bash it for every creative thing it tries. You don't get it both ways. Pokemon is in a rather unique situation where it HAS to include certain things but it's constantly crapped on for keeping those things or trying to change them.

Alola was way better, to me, than X and Y, and I get not liking the Z-moves, but they don't bother me. Personally I like megas. And the dance is cute. That's all its supposed to be. It does its job.

You know my biggest gripe with pokemon? The multiple versions of the same game. That's my biggest issue.

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2 hours ago, Purple Mage said:

 

Another issue is the power creep, alongside the hardcore competitive folk. There are just so many Pokémon that people like for their design and whatnot that get utterly screwed by competitive play. For example, I've established that I love Vanilluxe, but these days 110 Special Attack and 79 Speed is relatively minuscule. A friend told me that if Vanilluxe existed back in Gen I/II/III (with Levitate if it was Gen III), it probably would've been OU by Smogon standards.

Z-Moves were a bad idea, in my opinion. They should have added more Megas instead of this one-use-only crap. Can you imagine what it would be like if your legendary weapons in FE could only be used once per chapter? Yeah, that's what it feels like.

Gonna respond to this two only

 

 

Vanilluxe only reason to be OU in Gen 1/2/3 is explosion. it got nothing to do with power creep. Vanilluxe was an NU in gen 5. Yes, Gen 5 is a HUGE power creep that Gen 6 was a power drop besides the banned megas and Mega Kangaskhan, but the fact is, one gen after the most "balanced" metagame, and Vanilluxe is unable to stay in higher than UU level. If theres any generation of pokemon game that is good for proofing that kind of claims, its DPP.

Lets not sugarcoat this shit: Gen 1 and 2 have bar none the most oppresive metagame the game ever have. oh your telling me 'but Snorlax was god and now hes UU" but thats HUGELY influenced by mechanic changes than anything else. Snorlax was a giant winner of every mechanic changes that occurs in Gen 2, to the point that it become THE best pokemon in the game. On contrast it loses a lot in BW on mechanic changes.

And Mechanic Changes is kinda a big deal - for Snorlax as my example USUM was such a huge mechanic change that Snorlax literally become Uber again in one metagame. VGC players admitted that the only reason Snorlax manage to be balanced was because of 4 pokemon slot.

Another example of mechanic change is Machamp. I'll copy Thunderblunder recent post because it illustrates the point really well:

"everybody claims gen 4 is the best gen and i must agree, nothing is more competitive and engaging than losing 4 pokemon to dynamic punching machamp, very very thought provoking"

Honestly as far as the game goes i would say BW was the only time the game was at the right place despite the whole shit about weather. DPP is the cheesiest thing ever because of no team preview, while XY is ruined by Mega Evolution Nuke spam and clicking Thunder Wave. I don't think i need to explain why RBY is shit more than linking anyone to a Jynx Lead Mirror Match because i still cringe at that thing. GSC they blatant allows a broken pokemon because otherwise the game would be stall heavy. RSE is probably close to perfect but many things don't make sense in RSE, and 32 PP recover kinda ruined it

 

Also theres nothing wrong with Z Move, in cart based game it have the issues of ANIMATION LASTING TOO LONG, but gameplay wise its ok besides the fact that its extremely shamelessly broken(the fact that besides Mega Metagross every single ban made by smogon this gen is caused by Z move should say enough). More than Mega Evolution ever did if you exclude the obvious members of broken megas: ALL IN ONE ANIMAL, CARDBOARDWINGS, and MEGADOGGY. I can went into details what exactly went wrong with Mega Evolution, but lets just say Mega Mawile, Mega Metagross, Mega Charizard, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Kangaskhan, and Mega Beedrill was on the forefront of what went wrong

People LOVED Z Move. Like really love it. Before Z Move exists, the single most requested mechanic return going into SM was Elemental Gems which was just a weaker Z Move that can be used multiple times. Its really rare for a mechanic in video game to hit the nice mix of: being good, beloved by the entire competitive community, and encourages experiments as much as Elemental Gems. It produces creative stuff like Fighting Gem Hitmontop, but on the other side of the spectrum, theres Flying Gem Acrobatic-Tornadus Incarnate, and DGDM

Sadly BW was the first time Gamefreak started to make heavy decision with nerfs. We get Weather nerf, invention of Safety Googles in response to Amoongus being broken as shit, Fairy types which despite popular belief was created to stop DGDM exclusively. And then they literally removed Elemental gems from the game. Its kinda sad to think that Z Move is basically their way of saying "Elemental Gems won't return"

Edited by JSND Alter Dragon Boner

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I've played Pokemon since gen 1. I used to really love the RPGs, but I quit in 4th generation when I discovered smogon, where I switched pretty much entirely to simulator play.

I will say that I aggree that the Battle Tower / Battle Frontier / Battle Subway, are terrible for casual play from what I can tell, it really asks for turtling through with like a sub/calm mind + exploder + 1 random sub-legendary that isn't banned - Those are the only kind of teams I see people recomend for people who don't set up their natures and EVs, and that degree of "luck mitigation" is not fun. 

Having no natures or EVs would make speed ties much more common. This is especially so since most pokemon don't have distinct numbers for their speed, but cluster around numbers like 60, 70, 80, 90, 100, 110 There are easily more Speed 90 pokemon than speed 91-99. Always having to put up with dice/roll chances of being faster would be annoying. The availability issue  of properly Natured/IVd pokemon is real, but I think it's better to just  join a serebi/smogon/bulbabedia clan and request them through the players who *like* to breed and clans usually will accept art or being a main tournament battler or  whatever in return. I did this in Pearl, but afterwards I didn't need to due to the simulator beign more convenient. 

I think the ingame RPG trainers having illegal movesets isn't too much of an issue (Lance, Ghetsis, etc) ... the in-game trainers G/S Lance can even be beat down by like a Level 35 Poliwhirl with ice punch practically fresh from using good rod in the water east of Mahongany Town. I feel like their illegality usually doesn't actually make them harder.

Mega Evolution and Z-Moves - I really didn't like Mega-Evollution when I first played gen 6, but I eventually got used to it. I still wish it was more interesting (mega evolution's with differnt types than original) instead of most Mega-Evolutions just being bigger beaters of the original. 

Z-moves have this once for battle restriction because they are clearly desined solely for 6v6 play. I don't think they translate as well to the RPG. Techincally the un-nerfed gen 5 type gems (dragon gem, flying gem, etc) had  the same 1.5x multiplier they did, just without the ability to choose not to use it until needed (and being annoying in the RPG rather than simulator due to disappaering). I think the 5th UI option is a little out of place, but otherwise I can understand them. I think the way they encourage wallbreaking on neutral attacks is slightly unhealthy and they are obviously overkill when fighting a type you already have advantage against, but they definately aren't hard to find applications for. Probbably because the RPG trainers don't use switching, it isn't usually neccesary to want type netural wallbreaking moves.

The Z-move dance animation does seem like a bizarre appeal to like Mazinger-Z or Super Sentai... even with a focus on a Japanese demographic, I think Sun and Moon is using weirdly old (not to mention tonally different) source material. I usually play with the animations on simulator, but I can see why they'd be annoying, to someone who likes the regualr attack anims.

I know people who practically went full World Trade after a while, so I agree that a new pokemon game with only it's own region's pokemon  in-game is actually possible.  I think it could kind of re-kindle a kind of uncharted territory angle to the battle system, since returning players won't have an armful of pokemon they know are reliable from before. I wasn't a fan of pre-box trading XY OU though, so I think competetively, It would annoy me if a region locked generation extended to trading as well. 

 

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Just now, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Gonna respond to this two only

 

 

Vanilluxe only reason to be OU in Gen 1/2/3 is explosion. it got nothing to do with power creep. Vanilluxe was an NU in gen 5. Yes, Gen 5 is a HUGE power creep that Gen 6 was a power drop besides the banned megas and Mega Kangaskhan, but the fact is, one gen after the most "balanced" metagame, and Vanilluxe is unable to stay in higher than UU level. If theres any generation of pokemon game that is good for proofing that kind of claims, its DPP.

Lets not sugarcoat this shit: Gen 1 and 2 have bar none the most oppresive metagame the game ever have. oh your telling me 'but Snorlax was god and now hes UU" but thats HUGELY influenced by mechanic changes than anything else. Snorlax was a giant winner of every mechanic changes that occurs in Gen 2, to the point that it become THE best pokemon in the game. On contrast it loses a lot in BW on mechanic changes.

And Mechanic Changes is kinda a big deal - for Snorlax as my example USUM was such a huge mechanic change that Snorlax literally become Uber again in one metagame. VGC players admitted that the only reason Snorlax manage to be balanced was because of 4 pokemon slot.

 

 

Also theres nothing wrong with Z Move, in cart based game it have the issues of ANIMATION LASTING TOO LONG, but gameplay wise its ok besides the fact that its extremely shamelessly broken. More than Mega Evolution ever did if you exclude the obvious members of broken megas: ALL IN ONE ANIMAL, CARDBOARDWINGS, and MEGADOGGY. I can went into details what exactly went wrong with Mega Evolution, but lets just say Mega Mawile, Mega Metagross, Mega Charizard, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Kangaskhan, and Mega Beedrill was on the forefront of what went wrong

People LOVED Z Move. Like really love it. Before Z Move exists, the single most requested mechanic return going into SM was Elemental Gems which was just a weaker Z Move that can be used multiple times. Its really rare for a mechanic in video game to hit the nice mix of: being good, beloved by the entire competitive community, and encourages experiments as much as Elemental Gems. It produces creative stuff like Fighting Gem Hitmontop, but on the other side of the spectrum, theres Flying Gem Acrobatic-Tornadus Incarnate, and DGDM

Sadly BW was the first time Gamefreak started to make heavy decision with nerfs. We get Weather nerf, invention of Safety Googles in response to Amoongus being broken as shit, Fairy types which despite popular belief was created to stop DGDM exclusively. And then they literally removed Elemental gems from the game. Its kinda sad to think that Z Move is basically their way of saying "Elemental Gems won't return"

I apologize if I complained too much, but yeah, the older Gens had broken af stuff. As for Z-Move, it seems out of place in Pokémon, because having a one-off attack isn't really how Pokémon does stuff. Sure, there's Selfdestruct/Explosion, but it's more of a suicide bomb thing. High risk, high reward.

The problem with nerfs and buffs is that they can lead to a lot of bad things. It might make something plunge into the depths of the low tiers, or end up with an "If everyone is super, then no one will be." scenario where everything is powerful. I miss permanent weather abilities, but I guess the trade-off is the wider availability.

Again, I apologize if my opinions conflict with anyone else's. I'm a worthless guy, and that applies to my thoughts too.

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16 minutes ago, Reality said:

 

Z-moves have this once for battle restriction because they are clearly desined solely for 6v6 play. I don't think they translate as well to the RPG. Techincally the un-nerfed gen 5 type gems (dragon gem, flying gem, etc) had  the same 1.5x multiplier they did, just without the ability to choose not to use it until needed (and being annoying in the RPG rather than simulator due to disappaering). I think the 5th UI option is a little out of place, but otherwise I can understand them. I think the way they encourage wallbreaking on neutral attacks is slightly unhealthy and they are obviously overkill when fighting a type you already have advantage against, but they definately aren't hard to find applications for. Probbably because the RPG trainers don't use switching, it isn't usually neccesary to want type netural wallbreaking moves.

Gamefreak actually almost never design anything for 6v6 anymore. That monkey duo from Gen 7 was pretty much the biggest showcase of this, Tapu Fini was kinda semi obvious although its decent in OU, its absolute bonkers in VGC

And then theres Incineroar. An NU pokemon that was A- before it got Intimidate. And then it got intimidate and its arguably Landorus Therian only competition for the title as the best pokemon in the game in 018. Yes an NU pokemon manage to be so good, it devalues Landorus Therian. It manage to pull off the impossible by being the most dominant pokemon last month

I think the obvious one that GF works around whenever they designed a new game is keeping track of national dex more than anything else. Its kinda obvious Shiinotic was designed with the sole intention of being Amoongus proxy, and Oranguru was designed as a Cresselia Proxy

Edited by JSND Alter Dragon Boner

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2 hours ago, LucarioGamer812 said:

I watched nearly every season (minus some gen 6 seasons and I'm still avoiding gen 7s)

I definitly recommend to give the Gen 7 anime a try. Watch it subbed, since the dub starting going downhill with BW (XY&Z was when i made the transition to subbed) but the Gen 7 anime, while not as good as Gen 6, is still one of my favorites. The facial expressions are hilarious and overall a nice change a pace after the somewhat more serious tone of XY&Z.

1 hour ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

You know my biggest gripe with pokemon? The multiple versions of the same game. That's my biggest issue.

Honestly, same. I know it's to encourage trading and all, but i feel that the "two versions of a game" thing in general is an outdated tradition. I totally wouldn't mind having a single mainline Pokemon game. There aren't really enough differences to justify two versions, unless it's Gen 5 because version differences were actually relevant there, to the point that one of the movies had two versions to emphasize this.

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I'm not going to make a long winded spiel about this, but I kind of get it. I don't think I'd agree with all of them (I doubt I'll ever say much negative about PHGSS), but I do think that the series has been much more difficult to connect with in a wide variety of ways, partly due to the size of the games and other issues throughout. I mean, I haven't even finished Moon's postgame stuff and it's not like I ever cared for the competitive scene so something has to be off.

I haven't even picked up US, though that's as much as the 3DS currently being missing.

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I got UM and have barely touched it.

My main issue (to no one's surprise) is the steady increase in focus on story in the games. FRLG had just the right amount of interruption by way of story and thus are my favorites in the franchise. SM and USUM constantly interrupt my gameplay with some clown talking about how cool I must be. It was fine in my first run of SM but GF should seriously consider implementing a skip button for story in future titles.

Edited by YouSquiddinMe

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2 hours ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

Okay, you started out great but as you continued it started to sound more like nitpicks. Maybe it was the way it read, maybe it's me.

Natures, IVs, and EVs only matter if you go into competitive. No they're NOT required for beating the game. I have beaten every single one and never once checked any of that crap because I don't care. If it was actually required for beating the game then yeah, that would be sucky and they'd need to fix it.

The anime itself is kinda crap after Diamond/Pearl but the movies are still fine and, besides, the anime is for kids not teenagers or adults. So yeah, to the older generations it will probably suck. Let the kids enjoy the newer stuff, you enjoy the older stuff, and be happy that they're keeping the series alive.

Underleveled pokemon and ones knowing moves that they can learn in other generations is not that big of a deal. It's just not. The underleveled thing is actually to the player's benefit and occurs in a game with TWO Leagues. They had to do something so you didn't curbstomp the other side and level 100 is the max. Remember these games are still supposed to be accessible to kids.

... pokemon not staying in the ball is a core mechanic, has been since Gen 1, you are the only person I have ever heard complain about it. It makes sense. A level 80 legendary should NOT be easy to catch. Rare/strong pokemon are going to fight being caught. It makes sense.

Now, here is where I start to take offense because you're not criticizing you're exaggerating. You do realize most of the older games had absolutely crap pokemon designs right? Like... literal sludge. Literally. Grimer. Also random birds. The only good early bird is Fletchinder. That's it.

If you don't like the new designs, fine. But they're no better or worse than literally any other generation and, personally, I really like a lot of the new designs. They're fun to use in battle and Ribombee is adorable.

The character designs are fine. Actually the character designs are one of the praised parts of the new games (apart from your character's blank smile). The music is fine. No it didn't "make your ears bleed". Also people don't get to insult pokemon for having no creativity and in the same breath bash it for every creative thing it tries. You don't get it both ways. Pokemon is in a rather unique situation where it HAS to include certain things but it's constantly crapped on for keeping those things or trying to change them.

Alola was way better, to me, than X and Y, and I get not liking the Z-moves, but they don't bother me. Personally I like megas. And the dance is cute. That's all its supposed to be. It does its job.

You know my biggest gripe with pokemon? The multiple versions of the same game. That's my biggest issue.

I was going to reply to the TC, but then you came along and said exactly what I was thinking. 

Maybe it's just me, but the OP did sound a lot like nitpicking and just raging when there's no reason to rage anymore. So many of the complaints are things that aren't as big as they made them out to be. And if they're so angry... why keep thinking about it? Just drop the games and move on. Getting angry AFTER quitting Pokemon 2-3 years ago and then throwing it onto the internet is a waste of time and energy. But I also think that being angry in general is a waste of energy almost all the time. If video games make you angry, stop playing them. It's not worth getting worked up over. 

(also TC's complaints about Pokemon aren't worth getting mad over anyway and many of them are actually good/understandable elements of Pokemon or only matter for the hardcore players so there's no need to get mad about it)

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I think it's the first time ever that I post in the Pokemon forum (which already says everything about my opinion about this series).

In general I like the idea of their games, but I can't stand very most of these creatures. There's no way for me to identify with them. Their mascot Pikachu is one of the most annoying things in existence for me, and seriously I always hoped that Team Rocket would catch it sometime to shut it up. 

Also I was literally the only one of my class who did not collect these cards in the late 90s.

I tried to get into this series by playing X+Y, but as above stated, these creatures didn't appeal me except for two or three maybe. Liked its gameplay though.

Liked its gameplay so much that I played "Touhou Puppet Dancer Perfomance", a fangame with Pokemon likish battle system, just with Touhous.

 

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Wow, I did NOT expect it to be this civil. Serenes Forest is the only forum worth visiting and discussing stuff, after all.

2 hours ago, TadpoleSuperHero said:

Maybe it's just me, but the OP did sound a lot like nitpicking and just raging when there's no reason to rage anymore. So many of the complaints are things that aren't as big as they made them out to be. And if they're so angry... why keep thinking about it? Just drop the games and move on. Getting angry AFTER quitting Pokemon 2-3 years ago and then throwing it onto the internet is a waste of time and energy. But I also think that being angry in general is a waste of energy almost all the time. If video games make you angry, stop playing them. It's not worth getting worked up over. 

Ya know, I actually agree with you. I just sort of felt like getting my thoughts out there. I wrote it basically on impulse.
I wasn't really angry about it, though, even if my wording might make it seem that way. 

5 hours ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

Okay, you started out great but as you continued it started to sound more like nitpicks. Maybe it was the way it read, maybe it's me. If you define nitpicks as personal gripes and grievances and things that bothered me, then you didn't read wrong.

Natures, IVs, and EVs only matter if you go into competitive. No they're NOT required for beating the game. I have beaten every single one and never once checked any of that crap because I don't care. If it was actually required for beating the game then yeah, that would be sucky and they'd need to fix it. It probably depends how you define "beating" a Pokémon game. Beating the Elite 4, completing your Pokédex or getting the final coloured Trainer Pass (Gen III onwards). I agree that you don't need EV-trained Pokémon to achieve the first two things, but the final coloured Trainer Pass requires you to beat the Battle Maison / Frontier / Tower / whatever, where you absolutely NEED EV trained Pokémon to stand a chance and even then, it all comes down to luck.

The anime itself is kinda crap after Diamond/Pearl but the movies are still fine and, besides, the anime is for kids not teenagers or adults. So yeah, to the older generations it will probably suck. Let the kids enjoy the newer stuff, you enjoy the older stuff, and be happy that they're keeping the series alive. I have the same mindset, actually.

Underleveled pokemon and ones knowing moves that they can learn in other generations is not that big of a deal. It's just not. The underleveled thing is actually to the player's benefit and occurs in a game with TWO Leagues. They had to do something so you didn't curbstomp the other side and level 100 is the max. Remember these games are still supposed to be accessible to kids. Then why does Red suddenly come along with level 80+ Pokémon when your Pokémon absolutely won't be that strong when you first face him?

... pokemon not staying in the ball is a core mechanic, has been since Gen 1, you are the only person I have ever heard complain about it. It makes sense. A level 80 legendary should NOT be easy to catch. Rare/strong pokemon are going to fight being caught. It makes sense. And it has been annoying since Gen 1. To me at least. Thank whoever left Missingno. in Red and Blue and thank whoever invented the Catching O-Power, is what I'm saying.

Now, here is where I start to take offense because you're not criticizing you're exaggerating. You do realize most of the older games had absolutely crap pokemon designs right? Like... literal sludge. Literally. Grimer. Also random birds. The only good early bird is Fletchinder. That's it. I dislike several older Pokémon too. Half of Gen 2 looks absolutely silly (like Dunsparce... really?) and I really don't like Jynx or Mr. Mime, two Gen 1 Pokémon. It's just that I drew the line at Gen 7, because not a single Pokémon appealed to me. Every generation has it's highs and lows, that's nothing new. It's just that, to me, in past generations, there were always enough highs that outweighed the lows when it came to Pokémon designs. And just to show how honestly pointless it is to argue taste: Fearow, Pidgeot, Staraptor, Swellow, Unfezant and Talonflame are all among my favourite Pokémon and I almost always made room for one of them on my teams.

If you don't like the new designs, fine. But they're no better or worse than literally any other generation and, personally, I really like a lot of the new designs. They're fun to use in battle and Ribombee is adorable. I won't think less of you for liking the newer Pokémon. In fact, more power to you. I don't, you do. And that's completely fine with me.

The character designs are fine. Actually the character designs are one of the praised parts of the new games (apart from your character's blank smile). Again, a matter of taste. I think they look stupid.
The music is fine. No it didn't "make your ears bleed". Maybe I exaggerated a bit there, but I still really dislike the music, which, to me, is an integral part to any game. If the music is bad, chances are I won't like the game as much as I should / would otherwise. But that's just me.
Also people don't get to insult pokemon for having no creativity and in the same breath bash it for every creative thing it tries. And it would be fine if they didn't waste that creativity on useless gimmicks or just recycling stuff other franchises have done for years (case in point, Z-Moves) or just recycling their own ideas and marketing it as something "brand new" (manually flying Latias / Latios over the region where you can battle wild Pokémon in the skies, being able to ride on Pokémon (both of which have been in Ranger Guardian Signs) and taking pictures of Pokémon (which has been in Pokémon Snap nearly twenty years ago... damn, now I feel old). Or even worse: implementing something old, then giving it a new name and calling it a day (Island Challenges, which are for all intends and purposes just Gyms under a different name).
You don't get it both ways. Well, GameFreak certainly tries to have their cake and eat it, too. At least that's the feeling I'm getting with their story-telling.
Pokemon is in a rather unique situation where it HAS to include certain things but it's constantly crapped on for keeping those things or trying to change them. I wouldn't mind seeing all the old stuff thrown out. I think I even said so in a paragraph. On that note, I don't really see how the games always HAVE to include the old stuff.  Ruby and Sapphire did fine with cutting off the old branches of Gen 1 and 2 (but somehow, for some reason, still felt the need to include Alakazam, Gyarados, Crobat and others... why exactly?), so I don't see how this could be a problem in the future.

Alola was way better, to me, than X and Y, and I get not liking the Z-moves, but they don't bother me. Personally I like megas. And the dance is cute. That's all its supposed to be. It does its job. Well, your definition of cute certainly differs from mine, then, but again, matter of taste. As for Mega Evolutions I don't MIND them, per say (even though the way they explained it in X and Y is the best explanation for how Digivolution works in the Digimon anime I have ever seen), it's just that they felt so tacked on in ORAS, it was the Fates children situation all over again. I personally think they would have worked better as a Kalos-only gimmick.

You know my biggest gripe with pokemon? The multiple versions of the same game. That's my biggest issue. Agreed.

Responses in bold.

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7 hours ago, Armagon said:

I definitly recommend to give the Gen 7 anime a try. Watch it subbed, since the dub starting going downhill with BW (XY&Z was when i made the transition to subbed) but the Gen 7 anime, while not as good as Gen 6, is still one of my favorites. The facial expressions are hilarious and overall a nice change a pace after the somewhat more serious tone of XY&Z.

I'm not too keen on watching gen 7, I've seen the art and all and I'm turned off. To me it made Ash look even younger, which I don't like. I feel gens 1-6 had a natural progression of Ash almost, with in my opinion the XY&Z Ash actually being the best. He looked older in that one cause he is supposed to be older, people did calculations for his journey based off times said in episodes and some movie specials, and at the start of X/Y, it was estimated he was 14, which fit his design, even though they jeep saying he's 10. This may seem like me hating on gen 7 which being honest it kinda is. But credit to those who enjoy it. This is just my view on it and obviously it isn't true. But I think having Ash win the Kalos league and ending his anime would have been best. Think of it, the remix of the original pokemon op for x/y would have meant something. And it wouldn't have been the end of pokemon, they could reboot the anime with a new protagonist, and it would have went well with the semi-reboot Sun and Moon did. It would have surprised and hopefully pleased some older fans that Ash won and completed his quest. It could have been referenced in the new reboot and we see Ash progress despite not being the focus anymore. Just my thoughts as a fan and like I said obviously it isn't true so take that idea with a grain of salt.

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17 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

It probably depends how you define "beating" a Pokémon game. Beating the Elite 4, completing your Pokédex or getting the final coloured Trainer Pass (Gen III onwards). I agree that you don't need EV-trained Pokémon to achieve the first two things, but the final coloured Trainer Pass requires you to beat the Battle Maison / Frontier / Tower / whatever, where you absolutely NEED EV trained Pokémon to stand a chance and even then, it all comes down to luck.

Well, by definition, beating a Pokemon game (or any game) means beating the main story. Anything after that is side-content and post-game content. Also, i wouldn't say you need EV trained Pokemon. Again, i beat all the institutes just by playing the game normally (except the Battle Tree, fuck that shit). I agree that there is a luck element but can't that also apply to battling real people?

17 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

Then why does Red suddenly come along with level 80+ Pokémon when your Pokémon absolutely won't be that strong when you first face him?

Well first of all, Red is an optional fight. He's meant to be the ultimate challenge. If he was a mandatory fight, then it'd be an issue.

14 hours ago, LucarioGamer812 said:

I'm not too keen on watching gen 7, I've seen the art and all and I'm turned off. To me it made Ash look even younger, which I don't like. I feel gens 1-6 had a natural progression of Ash almost, with in my opinion the XY&Z Ash actually being the best. He looked older in that one cause he is supposed to be older, people did calculations for his journey based off times said in episodes and some movie specials, and at the start of X/Y, it was estimated he was 14, which fit his design, even though they jeep saying he's 10. This may seem like me hating on gen 7 which being honest it kinda is. But credit to those who enjoy it. This is just my view on it and obviously it isn't true. But I think having Ash win the Kalos league and ending his anime would have been best. Think of it, the remix of the original pokemon op for x/y would have meant something. And it wouldn't have been the end of pokemon, they could reboot the anime with a new protagonist, and it would have went well with the semi-reboot Sun and Moon did. It would have surprised and hopefully pleased some older fans that Ash won and completed his quest. It could have been referenced in the new reboot and we see Ash progress despite not being the focus anymore. Just my thoughts as a fan and like I said obviously it isn't true so take that idea with a grain of salt.

I too was originally turned off by the artstyle but i learned to give it a chance. And it's actually pretty enjoyable. I did eventually stop watching because Pokemon burnout but i do tune back in occasionally to see what happened while i was gone. Again, i do recommend to give it a chance. Watch a few episodes and see if it's for you.

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If you want to vomit from pokémon designs you should see a doctor.

 

Anyway, this sounds like a rant thread to me. My only response is... OK? All of this is an opinion so I'm not sure how i'm supposed to respond other than I disagree, and here's why? (Which i'm NOT going to do to keep this thread from becoming a flame war.)

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Well, this sems to be the perfect topic to lay down my opinion on the Pokémon Franchise, and why I keep playing after all those years.

I don't wanna be the very best like no one ever was. I don't even care about catching them all. It's just too much of  bother, honnestly.

- First, for the adventure. Exploring and discovering a whole new region is a blast every time. I started with Gen 1 (the objectively worse generation.) But this genration have a saving grace : the bugs. Now, outside all of the crazy things you could do with them (and I also got an AR latr on...), it affected  me on a more personal leveel. It was a whole unknown (and terrifying) world that opened in front of my eyes. Glitch city is a place of pure madness (that changed depending of the location. The Cycle Road ones is a favorite of mine). and Missingno... Well a "new Pokémon" is exciting, especially one as mysterious (Like only Mew was more of a mistery).

And then came Gen 2. The timed events that encourages you to visist some places again, the Unowns (especially in Crystal), all the mysterious caves and places that you had no reasons to visit on the main story, full of mysteries to unveil.
A particularily notable example for me is that beach on Route 34, where three female trainer challenges you for a soft sand. I was so happy to discover this place by myself.

Gen 7 actually have that somewhat (epecially USUM. People have good reasons to complain about this, but the "7 mysteries of the school" quest makes the game fully worth it to me. THere was tons of little detailsl aside that made the game really fun to play.)

 

-Second reason, the Pokémon obviously. And here I also like SUn Moon, because it teached me how to play through Gen 6. ORAS will still be hard to play through (I doubt I'll ever finish that game honnestly.), but I'm currently replaying through X and really enjoying it. In gen 6 and 7, I have a really large team of 6+ Pokémon (I arbitrary chosed to stop at 18. At least 1 of each type) rotating them along the way. I don't bother about old Pokémon returning, because with 800+ mons, that make a lot of different ones to try. And some Pokémons weren't really interresting until quite recently, like Venomoth, Masquerain, Pelipper...
And that's also why Nature don't bother me that much. first of all, there's the Synchronise ability that gives you higher chance of getting the desired Pokémon (Which is why Adamant Abra may actually be a blessing in disguise). And it means if I find a Pokémon with a good nature,I can immediately put it in my team. I plan some along the way, but it adds variety. That's how I ended up using a Sawk in my current X Playthrough.
And new Pokémon being "rip-offs" of oldr ons don't bother me. One thing Mimikyuu teached us is that the copy can surpass the original. And Sawsbuck, my all-time favorite could be considered a Stantler clone after all. (since they're both deers) *

However my one main complain about Gen 7 is Festival Plazza. PSS was simpel and relatively efficient, so obviously they replaced it with a broken and unintuitive system. It also amnages to be also worse than Join Avenue, its direct model, since it's entirely random. Trading and fighting is one of the main component of the serie, so that's just uforgiveable.

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I stopped with Black, but the process of stopping began with Gen 4 when I discovered Smogon and competitive battling. EVs and IV and natures kept me from ever catching legendaries much the same. I tried to raise some competitive Pokes, not my style I discovered, I don't care at all for competitive battling.

But what people are saying here is right, you never need this stuff ingame. 

I tried in Gen 4 taking on the Battle Frontiers, which is the lasting postgame, focusing mostly on the Battle Hall, the process of accruing wins for encountering the Frontier Brains was too slow for me.

 

I'm not going to judge character/Pokemon designs, but nostalgia makes me adore the aesthetic of Gens 1 & 2, and 3 & 4 to a lesser extent. Those washed out colors, the lesser degree of pure cuteness and kiddiness, mmm.....

 

On 4/17/2018 at 10:38 AM, YouSquiddinMe said:

My main issue (to no one's surprise) is the steady increase in focus on story in the games. FRLG had just the right amount of interruption by way of story and thus are my favorites in the franchise. SM and USUM constantly interrupt my gameplay with some clown talking about how cool I must be. It was fine in my first run of SM but GF should seriously consider implementing a skip button for story in future titles.

One of my issues with Black. N was sweet, but I didn't like the sudden increase in plot. I get Pokemon prior to that was repetitive and weak: Town-Gym-Gym-Team Evil Stuff-Gym and so forth, with trips through caves and long routes and open water and other things. The hard plot embodied in Team Evil's actions being treated ultimately as a side story to your flavorless adventure.

Yet B/W's plot just didn't sit well with me, it was too serious, too much for Pokemon, too focusing on the main character, too much philosophy mumbo jumbo that wasn't really clearly defined. They even hijacked the usual ending of the Four Heavenly Kings battles (Elite Four sounds so much less pretentious than the Japanese name for them) for a date with Plasma.

What do I want in Pokemon then? Well I could take more serious and in-depth plots, but I, albeit I haven't played any since Black so I can't tell, to either be devoid or downplaying of a silent MC, and to be centered on a large cast of talking characters, with the game itself not built at all on the Pokemon League Challenge or with it heavily diminished.

 

The alternative would be to make an Open World Pokemon game, no PLC or Team Evil focus here at all. Just a player able to run freely around and explore, and I sincerely do think I've always enjoyed exploring the Pokemon worlds, as diverse and as wonderful as they are. Random wild battles while exploring can be annoying, but I can't smell ya since I've unleashed ten cans of odious Max Repel. The focus could be more on the people, the individuals, including but not limited to the inevitable Pokemon League stand ins and the extant Team Evil presence, explored in a number of separate stories and sidequests, sometimes connected and dependent on complete others with other people in other places to unlock.

I don't love Open World, but I feel I'd love it with Pokemon. That and let me get blessed by Tornadus so I, the Chosen of Pokemon, Ash's little Mewtwo clone-esque sibling raised by Pokemon before as part of their destiny being sent among humans to become a uniter between the worlds, can finally gain the power to grow physical wings and fly.

...That last sentence is an old idea I've had since young childhood, maybe the age of four or five, which I held onto going far into my teens with modifications, with some fondness. Although I would really like it if trainers could by some magic get limited Pokemon powers in a spinoff.

 

I've said enough. Now I must return to my Great Ball-shaped sleeping pod *puts on headphones and starts listening to the Global Terminal theme*. Ahhhh, it makes me feel like I'm one with humanity and the universe, and I WANT TO BE THAT FOR ALL ETERNITY!:sob: If you must wake me, just play the GSC Team Rocket theme.

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