Valentian Revelations/Accordion = Remakes? Retcons?

[omegaxis1]

So recently we now have the Valentian Accordion reveal the details of the lore and the full story of the Valentian Revelations. And boy is it a doozy. 

However, this particular part of the Revelations is where I feel holds incredible potential for controversy:

Quote

Chapter 19
The ruler of the divine dragons was merciful, so before Duma departed, she gave him one of her own fangs, the Kingsfang.
(Official)

Chapter 20
Falchion was the name given to the blade carved from the Kingsfang. It was a sword of beginnings, an incarnation of the ruler herself.
(Official)

Chapter 21
Those who carry the divine dragon’s blood and bear her mark can draw out the Kingsfang’s true strength and manifest their royal power.
(Official)

The arguments that I have encountered is that this is strictly for the Valentian Falchion only. However, the Valentian Falchion and the Archanean Falchion are both still the same type of weapon. Ultimately, they are weapons meant for humans to have the ability to defend themselves against the dragons. 

In that case, would that not mean the Archanean Falchion is the same? Blood of a Divine Dragon and a Brand?

Of course, everyone knows that Anri, the first user of the Archanean Falchion, and his indirect descendant Marth, have no mentioned Brand, nor Divine Dragon Blood.

However, Marth has been implied connection with someone that does have Divine Dragon Blood. 

In Tiki's B support with Male Robin, she mentions this:

Quote

Avatar: Ah, Tiki. Just the person I was looking for.
Tiki: What is it, Avatar?
Avatar: Remember when you told me about your friendship with King Marth?
Tiki: Yes? What of it?
Avatar: You were referring to THE King Marth, right? The man from two millennia ago? Well, he's a distant relation to Chrom, is he not?
Tiki: That is correct.
Avatar: So, I was wondering, wouldn't Chrom resemble him more than me?
Tiki: Perhaps because Chrom is not like Marth. He is much more direct, and committed to what he believes is right. Chrom might more resemble a different ancestor, from the age I was born in. Another great man in their line, from 1000 years before Marth... But the Marth of my time was wise and fair, and won hearts with his kindness.

Tiki mentions that Chrom resembles a man 1000 years before Marth. Except there's only ONE character that can fit that description 1000 years before Marth, and that man is Sigurd. Sigurd also has a son, Seliph, who has Major Baldr Blood as well as Minor Naga Blood.

Given that Genealogy and Shadow Dragon have a 1000 year gap, the assumption is clearly made that one of Seliph's descendants could have gone to Archanea. It's used and before its fun, but it isn't anything conclusive. 

But now this new information about Falchion opens up a whole can of worms. 

If the Archanean Falchion functions the same way as the Valentian Falchion, requiring the blood of a Divine Dragon and a Brand, that would mean that Seliph's descendants, and possibly Julia's, would need to actually create a Major Bloodline for Naga likely, and that somehow got to Anri and Marcelus. Anri could wield Falchion, but Marcelus had to also possess the trait, as otherwise, Marth would never get that trait. 

This is where I believe the potential possibility of a new remake can take place, where we can have a new remake of the Archanea series, as well as the a remake of the Jugdral series. The latter can possibly open the possibility of Seliph's descendants heading to Archanea, and the Archanea remake can possibly reveal to have a retcon that Marth and Anri do have the Brands.

Some would argue that this undermines the feats they have done, since Anri was this mere peasant and rose to greatness. Personally, I don't think so, since Holy Blood by itself has nothing truly special until they get a Holy Weapon. So Anri's journey through Anri's Way, being a desert, a volcano, and a mountain, is still all Anri in the end. And Marth only ever gets Falchion at the endgame mostly, so his feats are still well earned and not dictated by any Holy Blood. 

So what do you guys think? You think the remake will happen and there will be retcons made for the series to fit the new lores being added into it?

[Armagon]

I can just seem them retconning it in a book similar to Valentian Accordion. While we might get new Archanea remakes one day, i don't see that happening for a long, long time.

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Armagon said:

I can just seem them retconning it in a book similar to Valentian Accordion. While we might get new Archanea remakes one day, i don't see that happening for a long, long time.

Maybe not THAT long. But before an Archanea series remake, I would prefer if they focused on Jugdral first. And some independent title series in-between.

[Armagon]

4 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Maybe not THAT long. But before an Archanea series remake, I would prefer if they focused on Jugdral first. And some independent title series in-between.

Now that i think about it, i can kinda see them retconning Archanea stuff in the eventual Jugdral remakes, if they happen. You know how at the end of SoV, there's a picture of the Mila Tree, tying the game in with Awakening? I can see them doing something similar with the Jugdral remakes where, at the end of it, a descendant of Seliph is seen arriving in Archanea. Or something like that.

.....And now somehow the thought that Tyrfing gets reforged into the Archanea Falchion has entered my mind and i find that both hilarious and upsetting. Help.

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Armagon said:

Now that i think about it, i can kinda see them retconning Archanea stuff in the eventual Jugdral remakes, if they happen. You know how at the end of SoV, there's a picture of the Mila Tree, tying the game in with Awakening? I can see them doing something similar with the Jugdral remakes where, at the end of it, a descendant of Seliph is seen arriving in Archanea. Or something like that.

.....And now somehow the thought that Tyrfing gets reforged into the Archanea Falchion has entered my mind and i find that both hilarious and upsetting. Help.

That theory already exists because of how Tyrfing and Falchion looks very close to one another. I would prefer that if they have Tyrfing again, they redesign it so it does not give the wrong impression. Tyrfing is made by some no named dragon that tagged alongside Naga.

I would prefer if there was further explanation about how the Holy Weapons are made. 

[Acacia Sgt]

18 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Some would argue that this undermines the feats they have done, since Anri was this mere peasant and rose to greatness. Personally, I don't think so, since Holy Blood by itself has nothing truly special until they get a Holy Weapon. So Anri's journey through Anri's Way, being a desert, a volcano, and a mountain, is still all Anri in the end. And Marth only ever gets Falchion at the endgame mostly, so his feats are still well earned and not dictated by any Holy Blood. 

Not really. Holy Blood has other effects than just allowing you to use a Holy Weapon. If you take game mechanics into question, Jugdrali brands increased weapon ranks and stat growths. From a story-perspective, that means the holy bloods are still empowering their holders, Holy Weapon or not. So yes, it would have an underminding effect.

Edited April 18, 2018 by Acacia Sgt

[Armagon]

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

That theory already exists because of how Tyrfing and Falchion looks very close to one another. I would prefer that if they have Tyrfing again, they redesign it so it does not give the wrong impression. Tyrfing is made by some no named dragon that tagged alongside Naga.

Same. I prefer Awakening's interpretation of Tyrfing. Gives it a look that makes it feel similar to the Falchion yet different enough. The fact that Valentia's Falchion also looks similar yet different enough gives me hope.

Though to be fair, another reason why people make that connection is because Kaga intended for every FE to have a Falchion (basically the series equivalent of the Master Sword from Zelda). He probably scrapped that idea after FE3 but Tyrfing's similarities to Falchion are probably a remnant of that.

[Slumber]

Just now, Acacia Sgt said:

Not really. Holy Blood has other effects than just allowing you to use a Holy Weapon. If you take game mechanics into question, Jugdrali brands increased weapon ranks and stat growths. From a story-perspective, that means the holy bloods are still empowering their holders, Holy Weapon or not. So yes, it would have an underminding effect.

Yeah, simply HAVING Holy Blood is a big deal in the narrative of the Jugdral games, and it's constantly shown to us that people with Holy Blood, regardless of a weapon, are still superhuman. Galzus as an example of major Holy Bloods who are generally treated as much different than normal people. The one instance of somebody being treated as hot shit without Holy Blood is Reinhardt, and it's generally treated as a big deal that Reinhardt is as powerful as he is without Holy Blood. 

[omegaxis1]

6 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Not really. Holy Blood has other effects than just allowing you to use a Holy Weapon. If you take game mechanics into question, Jugdrali brands increased weapon ranks and stat growths. From a story-perspective, that means the holy bloods are still empowering their holders. So yes, it would have an underminding effect.

 

1 minute ago, Slumber said:

Yeah, simply HAVING Holy Blood is a big deal in the narrative of the Jugdral games, and it's constantly shown to us that people with Holy Blood, regardless of a weapon, are still superhuman. Galzus as an example of major Holy Bloods who are generally treated as much different than normal people. The one instance of somebody being treated as hot shit without Holy Blood is Reinhardt, and it's generally treated as a big deal that Reinhardt is as powerful as he is without Holy Blood. 

Not exactly. I mean, if you wanna get technical, the Naga Blood that is likely what Anri inherited is something for HP, Magic, and Resistance. Not exactly what fits a swordsman like Anri. So even the Holy Blood function doesn't suit him. Especially when you consider the weapon rank boost is for the corresponding weapon that the bearer is supposed to use, being the Book of Naga. So it still isn't undermining at all.

Also, let's not forget that Anri was a peasant, and thus had no kind of training at all, nor any kind of access to resources, especially given that he went on this journey in wartime. So with all that, he still ventured through all that without any kind of proper equipment really and survived through it. Holy Blood doesn't make the person actual superhuman. Galzus is like Navarre, just a man that fought through so much that he gained a lot of strength. So it's not the blood that made Galzus strong per se, but rather the stuff he went through.

5 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Same. I prefer Awakening's interpretation of Tyrfing. Gives it a look that makes it feel similar to the Falchion yet different enough. The fact that Valentia's Falchion also looks similar yet different enough gives me hope.

Though to be fair, another reason why people make that connection is because Kaga intended for every FE to have a Falchion (basically the series equivalent of the Master Sword from Zelda). He probably scrapped that idea after FE3 but Tyrfing's similarities to Falchion are probably a remnant of that.

The Valentian Falchion looking similar to the Archanean Falchion at least makes sense. They both come from Naga's fangs. 

Yeah, I heard about that too, and not just Falchion, but Gradivus as well.

[Slumber]

8 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Galzus is like Navarre, just a man that fought through so much that he gained a lot of strength. So it's not the blood that made Galzus strong per se, but rather the stuff he went through.

Uh, no? 

FE5 isn't short on experienced warriors, and Galzus is the only person in the game Ced(With Holsety no less) is straight up afraid to fight. He's the attack dog of Raydrik and Veld. 

You don't see Ced going "Oh shit, this Shiva guy is a monster, good thing he's on our side" when Shiva is the actual Navarre of the game. 

Two dudes are treated as big, big deals on the enemy side. Galzus, who actually has major Odo blood, and Reinhardt, who is constantly compared to Tordo, one of the Crusaders. They don't compare him to Tordo with Mjollnir, they compare him to Tordo, meaning Tordo(And descendent of the Crusaders) is a big deal, with or without their weapons. 

Edited April 18, 2018 by Slumber

[Lightchao42]

So since Aura and Excalibur have user restrictions in the original Archanea games, you mean to say that Linde and Merric have holy blood too?

[Acacia Sgt]

31 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Not exactly. I mean, if you wanna get technical, the Naga Blood that is likely what Anri inherited is something for HP, Magic, and Resistance. Not exactly what fits a swordsman like Anri. So even the Holy Blood function doesn't suit him. Especially when you consider the weapon rank boost is for the corresponding weapon that the bearer is supposed to use, being the Book of Naga. So it still isn't undermining at all.

Also, let's not forget that Anri was a peasant, and thus had no kind of training at all, nor any kind of access to resources, especially given that he went on this journey in wartime. So with all that, he still ventured through all that without any kind of proper equipment really and survived through it. Holy Blood doesn't make the person actual superhuman. Galzus is like Navarre, just a man that fought through so much that he gained a lot of strength. So it's not the blood that made Galzus strong per se, but rather the stuff he went through.

And the Baldo blood? He should have both, if you think the Naga hasn't dilutted already after a thousand years. Even if not, HP alone already means more endurance and survivability. Resistance as well helps, if we assume the area around the Ice Dragon Temple also had sorcerers like at Marth's time.

Peasant or not, he would've still done some trianing and preparations before doin the journey. And if not... well, there's that happening in the journey itself. Also, we can't assume the effects need activation. For all we know, they're acting passively since birth.

58 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

In that case, would that not mean the Archanean Falchion is the same? Blood of a Divine Dragon and a Brand?

Of course, everyone knows that Anri, the first user of the Archanean Falchion, and his indirect descendant Marth, have no mentioned Brand, nor Divine Dragon Blood.

 

If the Archanean Falchion functions the same way as the Valentian Falchion, requiring the blood of a Divine Dragon and a Brand, that would mean that Seliph's descendants, and possibly Julia's, would need to actually create a Major Bloodline for Naga likely, and that somehow got to Anri and Marcelus. Anri could wield Falchion, but Marcelus had to also possess the trait, as otherwise, Marth would never get that trait. 

This is where I believe the potential possibility of a new remake can take place, where we can have a new remake of the Archanea series, as well as the a remake of the Jugdral series. The latter can possibly open the possibility of Seliph's descendants heading to Archanea, and the Archanea remake can possibly reveal to have a retcon that Marth and Anri do have the Brands.

Also, I would like to add that the Archanean Falchion already had this property way before Echoes was a thing, if you take into consideration it was Gotoh the one who binded the sword to Anri's bloodline. Heck, both he and Duma did it with weapons not made by them. So perhaps we don't really have to go with the whole "Anri carried remmant divine dragon blood from Seliph's descedants". Yes, with Gotoh there's no statement about a brand and stuff... but keep in mind that this was done before IS decided to rebrand (pun not intended) things (or even perhaps, Kaga himself did it before he made brands a thing in Genealogy, considering the amount of time between, it's possible). If the whole brand thing was added to both Duma and Mila, I would expect more that a future remake turns Gotoh's binding magic into simply being... more divine dragon branding.

17 minutes ago, Lightchao42 said:

So since Aura and Excalibur have user restrictions in the original Archanea games, you mean to say that Linde and Merric have holy blood too?

It's possible, if Gotoh's ability is retcon'ed to be in line with the rest. Heck, I'm pretty sure Aura at least was also stated to be like Falchion and the Jugdrali weapons, back in suplemental material...

Edited April 18, 2018 by Acacia Sgt

[omegaxis1]

19 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Uh, no? 

FE5 isn't short on experienced warriors, and Galzus is the only person in the game Ced(With Holsety no less) is straight up afraid to fight. He's the attack dog of Raydrik and Veld. 

You don't see Ced going "Oh shit, this Shiva guy is a monster, good thing he's on our side" when Shiva is the actual Navarre of the game. 

Two dudes are treated as big, big deals on the enemy side. Galzus, who actually has major Odo blood, and Reinhardt, who is constantly compared to Tordo, one of the Crusaders. They don't compare him to Tordo with Mjollnir, they compare him to Tordo, meaning Tordo(And descendent of the Crusaders) is a big deal, with or without their weapons. 

It's been a while since I've touched up on the Thracia part of the Jugdral series. However, does this not confirm something else? That the blood is sort of irrelevant still? Because in the end, the person themselves are the strong ones, not the blood itself. Galzus might have Major Od blood in him, but as you pointed out, Reinhardt has no Holy Blood, but he's compared to Thrud. 

In that regard, my argument about how the blood doesn't define their accomplishments still stands.

15 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

And the Baldo blood? He should have both, if you think the Naga hasn't dilutted already after a thousand years. Even if not, HP alone already means more endurance and survivability. Resistance as well helps, if we assume the area around the Ice Dragon Temple also had sorcerers like at Marth's time.

Peasant or not, he would've still done some trianing and preparations before doin the journey. And if not... well, there's that happening in the journey itself. Also, we can't assume the effects need activation. For all we know, they're acting passively since birth.

Not really. Baldr Blood could have vanished for all I know. It all depends on what was inherited. We don't know whether the dragon that made the bloodpact with Baldr is a Divine Dragon. This is due to how in FE3, Xane stated that himself, Gotoh, Naga, and Tiki were the only Divine Dragon survivors. But Gotoh and Xane discarded their Dragonstone after the war, so that means that they couldn't have gone to Jugdral really. 

Either way, the blood is not what defined the person in the end, as its power is only drawn from the Holy Weapon. It's the person themselves that made the journey work through. So even if Anri had Holy Blood, it was his own determination and will that gave him the strength to push through. 

19 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Also, I would like to add that the Archanean Falchion already had this property way before Echoes was a thing, if you take into consideration it was Gotoh the one who binded the sword to Anri's bloodline. Heck, both he and Duma did it with weapons not made by them. So perhaps we don't really have to go with the whole "Anri carried remmant divine dragon blood from Seliph's descedants". Yes, with Gotoh there's no statement about a brand and stuff... but keep in mind that this was done before IS decided to rebrand (pun not intended) things. If the whole brand thing was added to both Duma and Mila, I would expect more that a future remake turns Gotoh's binding magic into simply being... more divine dragon branding.

Yes, this was the ORIGINAL explanation. But this is where retcons come in. They might retcon what Gotoh did and have it that the bloodlines is what was already there. Excalibur and Aura aren't fully sure yet. But Falchion's Brand thing might just be an inherent trait for all we know. Perhaps Gotoh intended to form a blood pact to ensure that it was bloodlocked to Anri or such, but that became moot because he already has it. After all, Gotoh is a Divine Dragon.

21 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

It's possible, if Gotoh's ability is retcon'ed to be in line with the rest. Heck, I'm pretty sure Aura at least was also stated to be like Falchion and the Jugdrali weapons, back in suplemental material...

Yeah. Presumably it was created from the Lightsphere.

[Tetragrammaton]

There is a Blaggi Sword that any minor holy blood can use, so you should not surprise if some weapon can be used by any major holy blood comes from different dragons.

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, hanhnn said:

There is a Blaggi Sword that any minor holy blood can use, so you should not surprise if some weapon can be used by any major holy blood comes from different dragons.

Bragi Sword was specifically created to work for any Holy Blood, though strangely enough Galzus and his daughter cannot wield it. 

However, Falchion the the Bragi Sword are NOT the same. 

[Acacia Sgt]

13 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Yes, this was the ORIGINAL explanation. But this is where retcons come in. They might retcon what Gotoh did and have it that the bloodlines is what was already there. Excalibur and Aura aren't fully sure yet. But Falchion's Brand thing might just be an inherent trait for all we know. Perhaps Gotoh intended to form a blood pact to ensure that it was bloodlocked to Anri or such, but that became moot because he already has it. After all, Gotoh is a Divine Dragon.

Yeah. Presumably it was created from the Lightsphere.

Is Naga's bloodline even necessary in the first place? Or does now Alm also has Naga's blood as well? His family's blood-brand is with Duma's, not Naga's. And yet he can use the Valentian Falchion, with only Duma's. As I said, it's the same thing done as what was done with Gotoh and the Archanean Falchion years and years ago.

And yes, retcons. Gotoh's binding magic predates the brands. So it can easily be retcon that his binding stuff is simply the branding.

Not the Lightsphere. It was something about the weapons having dragonstones and stuff. I need to recheck it, just in case.

13 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

It's been a while since I've touched up on the Thracia part of the Jugdral series. However, does this not confirm something else? That the blood is sort of irrelevant still? Because in the end, the person themselves are the strong ones, not the blood itself. Galzus might have Major Od blood in him, but as you pointed out, Reinhardt has no Holy Blood, but he's compared to Thrud. 

In that regard, my argument about how the blood doesn't define their accomplishments still stands.

Not really. Baldr Blood could have vanished for all I know. It all depends on what was inherited. We don't know whether the dragon that made the bloodpact with Baldr is a Divine Dragon. This is due to how in FE3, Xane stated that himself, Gotoh, Naga, and Tiki were the only Divine Dragon survivors. But Gotoh and Xane discarded their Dragonstone after the war, so that means that they couldn't have gone to Jugdral really. 

Just for clarification, does Reinhardt really doesn't have holy blood? All I know is that he and Olwen are Freege nobles. Chances are they could have minor Tordo... but as I said, if it's really stated they don't have, then there's that. Also, keep in mind that Reinhardt is treated as an exception, not the norm. Just because Reinhardt can match someone with Holy Blood doesn't mean everybody can now.

Yes. For all we know. For all we know, it hasn't yet like Naga's, and someone like Anri and even Marth were still carrying some remmant of it. Doesn't have to be a Divine's to be long lasting. Again, for all we know.

Edited April 18, 2018 by Acacia Sgt

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Is Naga's bloodline even necessary in the first place? Or does now Alm also has Naga's blood as well? His family's blood-brand is with Duma's, not Naga's. And yet he can use the Valentian Falchion, with only Duma's. As I said, it's the same thing done as what was done with Gotoh and the Archanean Falchion years and years ago.

And yes, retcons. Gotoh's binding magic predates the brands. So it can easily be retcon that his binding stuff is simply the branding.

Not the Lightsphere. It was something about the weapons having dragonstones and stuff. I need to recheck it, just in case.

Oddly enough, it says that you need her holy mark, but this COULD be a mistranslation. I believe that it just means you need a Brand while having Divine Dragon blood to wield Falchion. Which is evidenced by how Duma gave Falchion and made a blood pact with Rigel I. And the timeline reveals that Rudolf also had the Brand, hence why Rudolf could wield it. Technically, Celica by theory also should be capable of wielding it, but since Alm is the main hero, Celica cannot use it.

However, Gotoh and such is not the same thing. What you are referring to is the magical contract. But the blood pact cannot have been performed. Why? Because Marth is the indirect descendant. Unless they suddenly say that Gotoh gave Marcelus Divine blood, but that's a stretch really. Anri and Marcelus would need to have both had the ability to wield it beforehand. 

Retcons has already existed. I mean, before Falchion was JUST a dragon fang. Comes FE4, and its said to be made the same way as a Jugdral Holy Weapon. 

The five Gemstones can be considered dragonstones since they were guarded by the Divine Dragons. No one knows their origins, but the dragon stones are referred to as orbs as well, which the Gemstones are also referred to as.

6 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Just for clarification, does Reinhardt really doesn't have holy blood? All I know is that he and Olwen are Freege nobles. Chances are they could have minor Tordo... but as I said, if it's really stated they don't have, then there's that. Also, keep in mind that Reinhardt is treated as an exception, not the norm. Just because Reinhardt can match someone with Holy Blood doesn't mean everybody can now.

Yes. For all we know. For all we know, it hasn't yet like Naga's, and someone like Anri and even Marth were still carrying some remmant of it. Doesn't have to be a Divine's to be lost lasting. Again, for all we know.

Given how Holy Blood is a major thing in the Jugdral series, if you have no Holy Blood mentioned in you, you don't have it. So if Reinhardt is not mentioned to have any Holy Blood, the likely case is that he doesn't. 

How is Reinhardt being an exception anything disproving what I say about Anri's accomplishments?

[Acacia Sgt]

10 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Oddly enough, it says that you need her holy mark, but this COULD be a mistranslation. I believe that it just means you need a Brand while having Divine Dragon blood to wield Falchion. Which is evidenced by how Duma gave Falchion and made a blood pact with Rigel I. And the timeline reveals that Rudolf also had the Brand, hence why Rudolf could wield it. Technically, Celica by theory also should be capable of wielding it, but since Alm is the main hero, Celica cannot use it.

However, Gotoh and such is not the same thing. What you are referring to is the magical contract. But the blood pact cannot have been performed. Why? Because Marth is the indirect descendant. Unless they suddenly say that Gotoh gave Marcelus Divine blood, but that's a stretch really. Anri and Marcelus would need to have both had the ability to wield it beforehand. 

Retcons has already existed. I mean, before Falchion was JUST a dragon fang. Comes FE4, and its said to be made the same way as a Jugdral Holy Weapon. 

The five Gemstones can be considered dragonstones since they were guarded by the Divine Dragons. No one knows their origins, but the dragon stones are referred to as orbs as well, which the Gemstones are also referred to as.

Given how Holy Blood is a major thing in the Jugdral series, if you have no Holy Blood mentioned in you, you don't have it. So if Reinhardt is not mentioned to have any Holy Blood, the likely case is that he doesn't. 

How is Reinhardt being an exception anything disproving what I say about Anri's accomplishments?

Is this "magical" contract was ever brought up elsewhere? Because the articles only mention it as a contract. Nothing about magic. As I said, it could be the brand. Because Kaga gave Gotoh this ability before brands were a thing. There is a chance that Gotoh's contracts are proto-Brands, game series development wise.

So? Chagall is the direct descendant but didn't inherit holy blood, because only one of Hezul's children did. It's already a thing that the brand-business doesn't exactly follow a logical path here.

Yes, the holy weapon contains orbs/dragonstones, but the thing about being related to the five used on the shield is another matter. There's no relation to the five for weapons like Aura or Excalibur, who would have their own, not one of the five.

I'm pretty sure there's no statement about Fergus having holy blood, and yet he can use the Blaggi Sword. The only thing mentioned of him is being the son of Connacht's princess. And with his father being Beo, the implication here is that the Connacht princess had holy blood. But nothing is outright stated here, either. We just have Fergus using the Blaggi sword as the only indication that he has holy blood.

Nothing. Why are you bringing Anri here regarding Reinhardt?

Edited April 18, 2018 by Acacia Sgt

[omegaxis1]

4 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Is this "magical" contract was ever brought up elsewhere? Because the articles only mention it as a contract. Nothing about magic. As I said, it could be the brand. Because Kaga gave Gotoh this ability before brands were a thing. There is a chance that Gotoh's contracts are proto-Brands, game series development wise.

So? Chagall is the direct descendant but didn't inherit holy blood, because only one of Hezul's children did. It's already a thing that the brand-business doesn't exactly follow a logical path here.

Yes, the holy weapon contains orbs/dragonstones, but the thing about being related to the five used on the shield is another matter. There's no relation to the five for weapons like Aura or Excalibur, who would have their own, not one of the five.

I'm pretty sure there's no statement about Fergus having holy blood, and yet he can use the Blaggi Sword. The only thing mentioned of him is being the son of Connacht's princess. And with his father being Beo, the implication here is that the Connacht princess had holy blood. But nothing is outright stated here, either. We just have Fergus using the Blaggi sword as the only indication that he has holy blood.

Nothing. Why are you bringing Anri here regarding Reinhardt?

In Kaga's interview on the origins of magic, and the tome Aura I believe. That's probably it. The contract still sort of exists because of Aura and Excalibur, but for the weapons like the Jugdral ones and Falchion, its the blood pacts. 

We aren't sure if him not being given Holy Blood was on purpose or if it was due to coding issues. According to Kaga, technically there isn't supposed to be ANY logical path. It's supposed to be entirely random and the Holy Blood does not discriminate.

Yeah, that's not necessarily true when we have it stated that Aura was created by using the Orbs. Or perhaps this was a remake thing added. But we are aware that Starlight and Imhullu were created from the Gemstones, with Imhullu created using the Darksphere and the Starlight using Light and Starsphere. So that doesn't necessarily exclude Aura from being made with the Lightsphere.

As you said, Fergus has lots of mysteries surrounding him. But since the lore indicates that only those with Holy Blood can use the Bragi Sword, Fergus MUST have the blood. Simple as that. 

Actually, it was on both Reinhardt and Galzus. Both of whom are characters, one with blood, one without, and both are considered to be dangerous adversaries even without a Holy Weapon. It just goes to show that blood does NOT define a character. Anri having Holy Blood or not never defined what Anri accomplished.

[Acacia Sgt]

2 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

In Kaga's interview on the origins of magic, and the tome Aura I believe. That's probably it. The contract still sort of exists because of Aura and Excalibur, but for the weapons like the Jugdral ones and Falchion, its the blood pacts. 

We aren't sure if him not being given Holy Blood was on purpose or if it was due to coding issues. According to Kaga, technically there isn't supposed to be ANY logical path. It's supposed to be entirely random and the Holy Blood does not discriminate.

Yeah, that's not necessarily true when we have it stated that Aura was created by using the Orbs. Or perhaps this was a remake thing added. But we are aware that Starlight and Imhullu were created from the Gemstones, with Imhullu created using the Darksphere and the Starlight using Light and Starsphere. So that doesn't necessarily exclude Aura from being made with the Lightsphere.

As you said, Fergus has lots of mysteries surrounding him. But since the lore indicates that only those with Holy Blood can use the Bragi Sword, Fergus MUST have the blood. Simple as that. 

Actually, it was on both Reinhardt and Galzus. Both of whom are characters, one with blood, one without, and both are considered to be dangerous adversaries even without a Holy Weapon. It just goes to show that blood does NOT define a character. Anri having Holy Blood or not never defined what Anri accomplished.

Does it? I don't think the detail was ever touched in the remakes about Aura and Excalibur. In fact, Aura follows the same pattern as holy weapons. With Miloah being the only one capable of weilding it, then his only offspring, Linde. Yes, the remakes added the whole "they're gender locked but Merric and Linde can use their tomes at any magic rank", but then Merric and Linde still have something special with the tomes. That would still need to be explained, and the contracts, if they are still a thing, would not cut it. Considering Miloah with the Aura tome. So again, unless the contract is mentioned as something separate from the brand, in something post-MysteryoftheEmblem (the original, no the remake), then it's more likely the contracts became the brands.

It's mentioned in the articles. Hezul's youngest daughter had the brand, and married into the Nodion royal family, so they had to swear loyalty to Agusty's royal lineage, who were the direct descendants. Exactly. No logical path, then so indirect descedant Marth can have the requirement. No need to have Marcelus also receive the brand ritual. Just with Anri was enough then.

Is it stated it was with the Five orbs? The articles only mention Aura has a dragonstone/orb, like Falchion and the Jugdral weapons. Not that it has one of the Five. Also, keep in mind that the spheres still exist separate from Imhullu and Starlight. So both tomes may actually not be like the Holy Weapons.

The point was that not every character with Holy Blood has it as an obvious or blatant mention. Hence why I mentioned that Reinahrdt only being mentioned to be a Freege noble could mean he could've had holy blood as well. But that's a separate thing. I think it's stated he doesn't have it, anyway.

It's not about what Anri accomplished. It's about the actual hardships. If having Holy Blood made it easier for him, then yes, it had an effect on the "legend" of Anri's Way.

[omegaxis1]

3 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Does it? I don't think the detail was ever touched in the remakes about Aura and Excalibur. In fact, Aura follows the same pattern as holy weapons. With Miloah being the only one capable of weilding it, then his only offspring, Linde. Yes, the remakes added the whole "they're gender locked but Merric and Linde can use their tomes at any magic rank", but then Merric and Linde still have something special with the tomes. That would still need to be explained, and the contracts, if they are still a thing, would not cut it. Considering Miloah with the Aura tome. So again, unless the contract is mentioned as something separate from the brand, in something post-MysteryoftheEmblem (the original, no the remake), then it's more likely the contracts became the brands.

It's mentioned in the articles. Hezul's youngest daughter had the brand, and married into the Nodion royal family, so they had to swear loyalty to Agusty's royal lineage, who were the direct descendants. Exactly. No logical path, then so indirect descedant Marth can have the requirement. No need to have Marcelus also receive the brand ritual. Just with Anri was enough then.

Is it stated it was with the Five orbs? The articles only mention Aura has a dragonstone/orb, like Falchion and the Jugdral weapons. Not that it has one of the Five. Also, keep in mind that the spheres still exist separate from Imhullu and Starlight. So both tomes may actually not be like the Holy Weapons.

The point was that not every character with Holy Blood has it as an obvious or blatant mention. Hence why I mentioned that Reinahrdt only being mentioned to be a Freege noble could mean he could've had holy blood as well. But that's a separate thing. I think it's stated he doesn't have it, anyway.

It's not about what Anri accomplished. It's about the actual hardships. If having Holy Blood made it easier for him, then yes, it had an effect on the "legend" of Anri's Way.

Aura is the particular case. Linde and Merric actually talk about it in their supports in that Aura for some reason is restricted to female. Aura is the only tome that is stated to be genderlocked, and it is believed the original owner changed the way that the ownership works so that it is not bloodlocked. Excalibur definitely isn't bloodlocked, but is said to have a case of choosing its owners.

Yes, I know. However, though I say the Holy Blood is meant to be random, that doesn't mean certain rules don't apply. For example, Minor Bloods will not produce Major Bloods unless they are paired with another Minor Blood of the same dragon. That's the entire point of Deirdre and Arvis hooking up by Manfroy. The other rule is that Major Bloods will give birth to generally Minor and at least  one Major. Has been happening for everyone so far, and nothing yet disproves it. So if Marcelus had Minor Blood, that means Marth could never inherit Falchion. 

That's what the gemstones are referred to in the remakes of the Archanea series: orbs. They never made it clear what they meant by dragonstones. Is it the dragonstone that they create to seal their dragon power? Or is it something like the gemstones? It's just very unclear. I pray that they explain these lores more in a remake.

Fergus didn't have it said, but his one is already implied through the Bragi Sword. Meanwhile, Reinhardt showed no form of implication. So Reinhardt is still the more exception.

Anri is in the end, just a plot device. He's a character that we will only get exposition about, but never get told the full story. Though I would love if similar to Rudolf versus Mila, an Archanea remake has an Anri vs Medeus battle to show off how epic they are. Someone argued that because the Valentian Falchion "blocked" an attack from Mila in a cutscene, this automatically makes the Valentian Falchion different from the Archanean Falchion and they have different powers. That's such a pitiful excuse in my books. 

[Tetragrammaton]

Even Diadora and Sylvia do not know they has holy blood, it's normal if someone has it, uses it without knowing it is a thing.

[Acacia Sgt]

32 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Aura is the particular case. Linde and Merric actually talk about it in their supports in that Aura for some reason is restricted to female. Aura is the only tome that is stated to be genderlocked, and it is believed the original owner changed the way that the ownership works so that it is not bloodlocked. Excalibur definitely isn't bloodlocked, but is said to have a case of choosing its owners.

Yes, I know. However, though I say the Holy Blood is meant to be random, that doesn't mean certain rules don't apply. For example, Minor Bloods will not produce Major Bloods unless they are paired with another Minor Blood of the same dragon. That's the entire point of Deirdre and Arvis hooking up by Manfroy. The other rule is that Major Bloods will give birth to generally Minor and at least  one Major. Has been happening for everyone so far, and nothing yet disproves it. So if Marcelus had Minor Blood, that means Marth could never inherit Falchion. 

That's what the gemstones are referred to in the remakes of the Archanea series: orbs. They never made it clear what they meant by dragonstones. Is it the dragonstone that they create to seal their dragon power? Or is it something like the gemstones? It's just very unclear. I pray that they explain these lores more in a remake.

Fergus didn't have it said, but his one is already implied through the Bragi Sword. Meanwhile, Reinhardt showed no form of implication. So Reinhardt is still the more exception.

Anri is in the end, just a plot device. He's a character that we will only get exposition about, but never get told the full story. Though I would love if similar to Rudolf versus Mila, an Archanea remake has an Anri vs Medeus battle to show off how epic they are. Someone argued that because the Valentian Falchion "blocked" an attack from Mila in a cutscene, this automatically makes the Valentian Falchion different from the Archanean Falchion and they have different powers. That's such a pitiful excuse in my books. 

In this case, it's more a property of "magic" itself, as Merric explains, in that it seems some tomes gain a "will" of their own. But is this a result of what Gotoh did to them, or pure chance? Does Gotoh wasted placing the contracts, or were the trigger for Aura and Excalibur to gain "wills"? Hmm, this is certainly interesting, but I don't know if this really has an answer... or won't be subject to further retcones. Aura and Excalibur were, after all, originally just locked to Merric and Linde/Miloah. No one else could use them.

Well, keep in mind that, agian, Anri and Marcelus and their relation with Flachion and its blood-bind came before the whole thing became mainstream and a system was added. Things like Minor and Major don't apply to them due to predating the system (as far as post-system goes, Falchion by the time of Awakening seems to not have that restriction anymore, if Lucina's sibling is any indication; it's now the sword itself choosing, but still limited to the bloodline). What remains to be seen is if this will be changed somewhere down the road.

Keep in mind that "orbs" is what humans called them. So being referred as orbs doesn't mean they're separate things from dragosntone. They're the same thing. Dragonstones are simply storage devices, as it were. It's likely why Holy Weapons and the like are as powerful as they are. Because dragons powered them up, creating further dragonstones to house the power ups.

Well, if there was an implication, is the fact he's a noble. Oifey is a Chalphy noble, has Minor Baldo. Hilda is a Velthomer noble, has Minor Fala. The implication here is that Granvale nobles of any given duchy can have Minor Blood of said Duchy's crusader lineage, and probably why they're nobles in the first place. But again, it's not a hard-coded rule.

Edited April 18, 2018 by Acacia Sgt

[GamerX51]

The Aura and Excalibur Tomes have had special enchantments cast on them to make it so that only specific people (or their descendants) can use them. This isn't determined by blood (judging from what little information the games provide) but by specific conditions set by the caster of the enchantment at the moment of it's casting. Excalibur may be a unique case, since it can determine it's own wielder to a certain degree.  

I think Linde explained in one of her supports in New Mystery that Aura being gender-locked was due to Gotoh changing the enchantment after her father was killed. But I could be wrong on that; its been a while since I played New Mystery.

Edited April 18, 2018 by GamerX51

[omegaxis1]

11 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

In this case, it's more a property of "magic" itself, as Merric explains, in that it seems some tomes gain a "will" of their own. But is this a result of what Gotoh did to them, or pure chance? Does Gotoh wasted placing the contracts, or were the trigger for Aura and Excalibur to gain "wills"? Hmm, this is certainly interesting, but I don't know if this really has an answer... or won't be subject to further retcones. Aura and Excalibur were, after all, originally just locked to Merric and Linde/Miloah. No one else could use them.

Well, keep in mind that, agian, Anri and Marcelus and their relation with Flachion and its blood-bind came before the whole thing became mainstream and a system was added. Things like Minor and Major don't apply to them due to predating the system (as far as post-system goes, Falchion by the time of Awakening seems to not have that restriction anymore, if Lucina's sibling is any indication; it's now the sword itself choosing, but still limited to the bloodline). What remains to be seen is if this will be changed somewhere down the road.

Keep in mind that "orbs" is what humans called them. So being referred as orbs doesn't mean they're separate things from dragosntone. They're the same thing. Dragonstones are simply storage devices, as it were. It's likely why Holy Weapons and the like are as powerful as they are. Because dragons powered them up, creating further dragonstones to house the power ups.

Well, if there was an implication, is the fact he's a noble. Oifey is a Chalphy noble, has Minor Baldo. Hilda is a Velthomer noble, has Minor Fala. The implication here is that Granvale nobles of any given duchy can have Minor Blood of said Duchy's crusader lineage, and probably why they're nobles in the first place. But again, it's not a hard-coded rule.

I believe that Excalibur and Aura simply has a special kind of contract placed on it by design. Given that Excalibur was created through special means and is a powerful tome, its possible it was created by Gotoh as well, and has draconic ties to it. We only hear Aura being a dragonstone, but not Excalibur. Is there a difference? Not sure.

Yes, which is why I am thinking that these new possibilities are being depicted to likely happen. We might end up getting a retcon of Anri and Marcelus being those with the Brand. Honestly, its rather weird that Naga would even need to place a bloodlock on Falchion when she gave it to Duma, cause it makes no sense. If she bloodlocked it, then if Duma never made a bloodpact, then Falchion would never be able to be used.

Except exactly what kind of dragonstone are we being referred to? Keep in mind that dragonstones are the very item that dragons use to seal their draconic powers away. If they lose it, they lost their ability to transform. So can they just have placed their dragonstones in the weapons and gone out? Or were they able to somehow make new ones, which makes no sense. Contrary to how the gameplay functions, the dragon with their dragonstone is something that is theirs and only theirs. 

Not all nobles are of Crusader lineage. After all, Kempf is a noble of Freege, but isn't of Crusader lineage, so it stands a good reason to say that Reinhardt is also in that same position.