Jump to content
shadowofchaos

[SPOILERS] Are we getting to the level of "Zelda timeline" lore obsessiveness?

Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I mean, Excalibur was in both Blazing Blade and Sacred Stones. Granted, it's called Gigascalibur in the Japanese version but still. 

As for Mjolnir, it's the same name in the Japanese version. But actually, Excalibur also appears in Fates, with the same name in both versions. Probably just a reference tbh.

I meant same name as in Genealogy and Awakening, which was ThorHammer. In Fates, it is Mjölnir in Japanese. Not that it matters, since the tome's in-battle model is the same one the one in Awakening, so it's quite likely meant to be the same tome.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

I wasn't referring exclusively to the Jugdral weapons, but I guess all legendary weapons could have such lore tied to them.

I really don't think they put any thought into the inclusion of any of these weapons aside from maybe Mjölnir, and I'd say that was only because it wasn't a playable weapon initially.

It is still Mjölnir in the Japanese version.  Well I mean, technically it was called "Thor Hammer" in Genealogy, but that's essentially the exact same thing.  Kind of like how "Astra" has sometimes been translated to "Shooting Star Sword".

It has a similar looking effect and similar gameplay effects (high skill/crit rates) anyway, so even if they had slightly different names, it's still awfully similar to the spell our dear Reptor and Ishtar used.

Mjölnir being in Fates means nothing. Seriousy, how many Excalibur and Aura have we have in other games already despite how in Archanea, they are legendary tomes? It's just a case of using names of legendary tomes being used differently in another world and their continent. Not the same thing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

that Mjölnir in particular somehow wound up in the world of Fates as a C-rank weapon.  Are we just supposed to accept that all the lore had just been retconned?  Or are these weapons merely imitations based off of the real legendary weapons?  But if that were the case, why does Missiletainn exist then?  This is probably the biggest inconsistency lore-wise born out of Awakening/Fates having a gaff that has yet to be resolved.

 

14 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

I wasn't referring exclusively to the Jugdral weapons, but I guess all legendary weapons could have such lore tied to them.

I really don't think they put any thought into the inclusion of any of these weapons aside from maybe Mjölnir, and I'd say that was only because it wasn't a playable weapon initially.

It is still Mjölnir in the Japanese version.  Well I mean, technically it was called "Thor Hammer" in Genealogy, but that's essentially the exact same thing.  Kind of like how "Astra" has sometimes been translated to "Shooting Star Sword".

It has a similar looking effect and similar gameplay effects (high skill/crit rates) anyway, so even if they had slightly different names, it's still awfully similar to the spell our dear Reptor and Ishtar used.

I'm mostly lurking because I'm enjoying the discussion.

But I'm gonna stop your right there.

Uhhh...no.

If it's a different katakana it is different to a Japanese speaker.

You're thinking as a westerner.

The tome "Thor Hammer" would have no connection to "Mjolnir" to a Japanese speaker.

In fates ミョルニル is contextually different from Awakening and Geneology's トールハンマー

The Japanese have never had a Mjolnir.

Please don't get me started on how silly your point sounds with 流星剣

Edited by shadowofchaos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Hylian Air Force said:

@shadowofchaos That's on Treehouse for the confusion, not him. I understand they are 2 different weapons, at least. Really, they should've called it something else to prevent this mix-up.

The funny part is they have the same tome model.

But at this point I hope we've learned as a community the separation of gameplay and lore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I say unless there's an obvious connection, they're their own world. We've already established that Hoshido/Nohr is a separate world from Archanea, so why not? Thus, I see there being 5 worlds so far (in the main games).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very few people take a unified FE world very seriously. Aside from games that explicitly take place on the same or nearby continents, things like Outrealms are only brought up when it is convenient for DLC shenanigans or random cameos. The thing that makes Zelda so much the target of continuity theories is because many of the games share places, lore and characters. In fact, continuity is implied (in a vague fashion) by characters being reincarnated over and over again. Fire Emblem doesn't share as much lore between its worlds. Dragon lore has a lot of similarities in multiple games, but usually there is no strong indication to say one world is related to another.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the idea of the Fire Emblem world being a multiverse.

My approach would be to separate the continent into 4 worlds:

Archanea/Ylisse/Valentia/Jugdral

Elibe/Magvel

Tellius

Fateslandia (lord, why didn't they name this continent...)

Just what I would do.

Edited by Titamon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Titamon said:

Elibe/Magvel

Tellius/Fateslandia (lord, why didn't they name this continent...)

Just wondering why you link these together (I'm also going to ask to not say too much with Tellius, mainly because I've not played either Tellius game.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Dayni said:

Just wondering why you link these together (I'm also going to ask to not say too much with Tellius, mainly because I've not played either Tellius game.)

These associations are really just my own headcanon. 

I have a theory that Formortis is a dark creation that spawned from the continent of Elibe and traveled to Magvel to terrorize its denizens. Elibe is called the the "Dark Continent" after all. 

As far as the Tellius connection is concerned that was an error... I did not mean to mean to link those 2 together. ? I was trying to do 4 worlds and put down only 3.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Titamon said:

These associations are really just my own headcanon. 

I have a theory that Formortis is a dark creation that spawned from the continent of Elibe and traveled to Magvel to terrorize its denizens. Elibe is called the the "Dark Continent" after all. 

As far as the Tellius connection is concerned that was an error... I did not mean to mean to link those 2 together. ? I was trying to do 4 worlds and put down only 3.

A problem I have linking Elibe and Magvel is that there's no mention from Myrrh that living in her world is toxic to dragons. The Eliwood/Ninian ending of FE7 establishes that the world of Elibe, possibly due to something from the Scouring, is poisonous to dragons, and Ninian will not live long(Likely an excuse to handwave why Roy has no mother in FE6). 

Myrrh makes no mention of this and her clan was killed off through other means.

It's possible that the events of Magvel take place before the Scouring, but it seems like dragons were pretty squarely localized to certain parts of Elibe pre-Scouring, and ones who wanted to live peacefully with humans lived in Arcadia, which is not what happens in Magvel. 

It's likely that Magvel is its own world, and Fomortiis is simply an entity that has always been. He's essentially Satan, and nobody really seems shocked by monsters in FE8(Beyond the fact that it means Fomortiis is up to something), while there's no mention of such things in FE6 or 7, despite Elibe being the "dark continent". 

Edited by Slumber

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Slumber said:

A problem I have linking Elibe and Magvel is that there's no mention from Myrrh that living in her world is toxic to dragons. The Eliwood/Ninian ending of FE7 establishes that the world of Elibe, possibly due to something from the Scouring, is poisonous to dragons, and Ninian will not live long(Likely an excuse to handwave why Roy has no mother in FE6). 

Myrrh makes no mention of this and her clan was killed off through other means.

It's possible that the events of Magvel take place before the Scouring, but it seems like dragons were pretty squarely localized to certain parts of Elibe pre-Scouring, and ones who wanted to live peacefully with humans lived in Arcadia, which is not what happens in Magvel. 

It's likely that Magvel is its own world, and Fomortiis is simply an entity that has always been. He's essentially Satan, and nobody really seems shocked by monsters in FE8(Beyond the fact that it means Fomortiis is up to something), while there's no mention of such things in FE6 or 7, despite Elibe being the "dark continent". 

In FE6 we had Fae who was a full blooded dragon able to survive in Elibe's changed atmosphere, and she was at least 100 years old.

Clearly not all dragons are effected like this. Even Idoun is able to function just fine and then we have Jahn who survived for 1000 years nursing his wounds.

It may be because Ninian and Nils crossed over to the other side before the Ending Winter happened and the return to Elibe after all of those centuries would be too much for their bodies to handle. The Dragons that never left probably had time to adapt to the changes.

I don't recall Myrrh or FE8 going into detail into the origin of the Dragonkin on Magvel. So there's room for different interpretations all we know is that her birth parents died in a great war.

Monsters aren't mentioned in Elibe legends that is true, but it stop them from existing in other places in that world. Remember monsters existed in Valentia but not in Archanea, and those two were neighboring continents.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Titamon said:

In FE6 we had Fae who was a full blooded dragon able to survive in Elibe's changed atmosphere, and she was at least 100 years old.

Clearly not all dragons are effected like this. Even Idoun is able to function just fine and then we have Jahn who survived for 1000 years nursing his wounds.

It may be because Ninian and Nils crossed over to the other side before the Ending Winter happened and the return to Elibe after all of those centuries would be too much for their bodies to handle. The Dragons that never left probably had time to adapt to the changes.

I don't recall Myrrh or FE8 going into detail into the origin of the Dragonkin on Magvel. So there's room for different interpretations all we know is that her birth parents died in a great war.

Monsters aren't mentioned in Elibe legends that is true, but it stop them from existing in other places in that world. Remember monsters existed in Valentia but not in Archanea, and those two were neighboring continents.

Honestly I think the whole "Elibe's atmosphere is poison to dragons!" plot point was a bigass retcon to just give an excuse for Ninian, a dragon, just randomly dying between the events of FE6-7. It's a really dumb plot point, but it's established in FE7, and we can assume it's true going forward to FE8, is they were indeed connected. 

Myrrh doesn't give a lot, but that's FE8 as a whole. We learn jackshit about Magvel. Say what you will about not even knowing the name of Fateslandia, we actually learn about that continent to some degree beyond "There be monsters". 

And yeah, Valentia and Archanea are different continents, but the foundation of you connecting Elibe and Magvel to the same world is that Fomortiis is a product of Elibe because it's called the "Dark Continent". You'd think monsters would also be an acknowledged thing there if these were the same worlds. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/18/2018 at 10:44 AM, shadowofchaos said:

Heroes by nature connects everything a la fanservice.

It never even is clear if heroes are summoned in the middle of their adventure or after or even sometimes after their own death... Or right before. I mean I personally don't think about it too much since it's a frigging gacha game. It's clear Ekura/Kiran being able to "S support" anyone including waifu'ing Dancer Dragons just throws everything out the window when it comes to using heroes as more than "grain of salt" lore source. I mean Marx/Xander tends to have the bad habit of choosing the wrong side lmao

You know, this got me thinking.  Heroes have already shown there are multiple versions of Alfonse and Sharena, basically suggesting the fact that you can summon multiples of a same character is actually somewhat canon to that game and not purely a weird gameplay mechanic that gets ignored by the story.

That being the case, I wonder if they've set it up sort of like this - every person's playthrough of a fire emblem game is considered its own parallel universe.  This is why multiple versions of a character can exist.  Expanding on that, maybe you're right?  What if summoning a hero is related to the permadeath mechanic in the sense that these are heroes a player lost in their game so from a story perspective, they will not be "missed" in their own world. 

Or maybe not, but it was just an interesting idea :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...