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New Legendary Hero: Lyn, Lady of the Wind


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22 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

 

I don't think anyone is seriously motivated to hate alts out of the altruism of having every character appear in the game.

I believe I'd be more excited about a Dolph/Macellan/Thomas banner than one with 3 alts. Sure, not as much as I would be thrilled to get Bastian but it'd still be something I'd find really cool. 

I like the idea of my army growing and recruiting alternates doesn't give me that effect. Plus I'd love to see those characters given personalities. I've played all Fire Emblems enough times to have used every unit at least once in my final team.

 

Edited by Vince777
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@Ice Dragon I’m not at all against alts, (even if there are some I don’t care for) but I’d rather see many of the popular characters get one or two alts than a few extremely popular ones getting several. One character getting five within little over a year is just too many in too short of a time span.

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2 hours ago, XRay said:

That is because wielding the sword by the blade and using it as a blunt weapon is a real historical technique, and here is a Wikipedia article on the subject, as well as a YouTube video by Skallagrim.

interesting, makes more sense when it has a specific purpose

2 hours ago, Kaden said:

I figured that colored archers would all be alternate units and Heroes originals while colorless archers are the "normal" archers. My reasoning is that I can't think of many archers who are heavily with an element or wield some sort of elemental bow which apparently Mulagir is according to wikia since it's known as "The Bow of the Winds". The only person to come to my mind is Takumi because of his Fujin Yumi as Fujin is a Shinto wind god. Hilariously enough, I guess possessed Takumi could work too since Skadi is a giantess and goddess associated with winter among other things and I guess whoever is possessing is associated with water as well -- I haven't played Fates yet.

Otherwise, I have no idea since I don't think any of the other personal or legendary bows are associated with an element. Maybe Mikoto as a legendary hero of water with a colored bow? I think they're going to have to make up bows and characters or just slap them into colors and basically have them be physical versions of mages which they and other colorless units are, but now they're involved in the weapon triangle.

I think that bows will mimic the tomes. Green is element based, like Mulagir; blue will be linked to light, like Shining bow; and red will get the more evil ones, like Nidhogg.

As far as water heroes go, Corrin (maybe Lilith), being a water dragon, Azura, Nils, Ninian, and Raven (the later 3 are ice affinity) are who I think they'll use. I'll admit that I don't know which unreleased magic users are popular. 

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Lemmy said:

I'll admit that I don't know which unreleased magic users are popular. 

Pent, Nyx, Ophelia, Kliff, Canas (I didn’t know many other people cared about him except me, but surprisingly he made it into the top 100 of cyl!) Maribelle if you count staff users, just to name a few off the top of my head, there’s probably more though.

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1 minute ago, ShadowAlchemist said:

Pent, Nyx, Ophelia, Kliff, Canas (I didn’t know many other people cared about him except me, but surprisingly he made it into the top 100 of cyl!) Maribelle if you count staff users, just to name a few off the top of my head, there’s probably more though.

Ishtar & Lewyn are pretty big. Also, Aversa.

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2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

At the current pace, we'll be short by 16 characters by the end of the year compared to if there were no standard-banner alts, and that's roughly 2 characters per game.

If we exclude Tempest Trial and Grand Hero Battle characters, this is equivalent to roughly eight banners' worth of character releases at the current pace.

I am pretty sure that most people would consider having eight banners effectively ripped out of the calendar to be significant.

If we assume each banner has the aforementioned two free characters attached to it, it is only four banners; however, inevitably, two of these characters are underwhelming as anything other than fodder due to being free and the third is likely to be demonstrably weaker thanks to being the 4*-5* demotion, leaving only a quarter of those characters to be thankful for their inclusion in our World of Alts.

50 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

To be extremely honest and blunt, I'm suspicious of the motivations of the players who are arguing against alts. They are saying "I don't like alts because they are slowing down the release of less popular characters", but what I'm hearing is "I don't like alts because they are slowing down the release of my favorite characters, some of whom happen to be less popular". I've yet to see anyone argue that alts are slowing down Macellan and Dolph's release, but I hear Flora and Astrid and Sety a lot.

I don't think anyone is seriously motivated to hate alts out of the altruism of having every character appear in the game.

Have you considered the possibility that many of these people are usually trying to appeal to the emotions of people who like these semi-popular characters, and not necessarily doing it for the sake of the semi-popular characters themselves? I personally have little serious investment in characters like (for example) Flora or Maribelle relative to any other absent character, but because these are popular characters from games that the developers know the fanbase is aware of and are capable of making money, they are logical fanbases to appeal to when trying to reach out to other people for support.

Furthermore, even if these people are motivated by selfish interests, what does it really matter? The vast majority of people I have seen defending alts are usually the sort of people whose favorite character already has upwards of three of them in the first place, like Chrom or Lucina. What makes the opinion belonging to these people morally sound when their opposition is apparently selfish, if both groups would like to be appealed to at the expense of the other, one has received multiple offerings, and one has been completely ignored and has only increasingly less to look forward to as time moves on?

We have seasonal banners for alts and new hero banners for new characters. This, as it was, was a fair balance. But now we don't even have that: we have seasonal banners, legendary banners, brave hero banners, and new hero banners for alts, and the scraps of new hero banners for new characters (with a few rejects handed out for free via events, killing their stats and potential for the sake of at least getting them into the game.) How much more can you possibly defend them for taking from the people who still wish to see new heroes?

Edited by Iridium
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15 hours ago, ShadowAlchemist said:

I didn’t really care who it was for this banner, I was just looking forward to the Halloween alts.

For future legendaries, I want Marth the most though. Also Eliwood, but no one else seems to care about him (I’m just glad he got an alt already, he really needed better art. He’s most of the reason I don’t dislike alts in general). Aside from them, most of my favorites don’t have any chance because I’m pretty sure the criteria for being a legendary is that they have to be either a main lord or a fates/awakening character. There also seems to be a preference for female characters and “manly” male characters, but most of the characters I like are pretty bishies. A lot of my favorite characters are none of those things, and some of them aren’t even in the game yet.

Legendary Berkut would be the best though. Or Pent, but that’s even more wishful thinking.

I see, but I believe Berkut will eventually have Kriemhild as weapon upgrade.

 

7 hours ago, XRay said:

If we are comparing just Legendary Heroes, then FV!F!Robin and LOTW!Lyn both got really high numbers of dislikes compared to other Legendary Heroes, most likely due to the number of alts being released so frequently.

VL!Ike also proportionally got more dislikes than LL!Ephraim, most likely for the same reason as well.

I am not sure too sure why Gunnthrá got a lot of dislikes (about twice as much as Fjorm), but if I were to make a guess, I am going to assume it is due to people expecting her to be given away for free.

 

5 hours ago, Lewyn said:

This so much.  Honestly I'm peeved at the amount of hate Lyn is getting, it just reeks of complete bias.  Unlike Robin, Chrom, Eirika, Hinoka, Zelgius (though he gets a pass since BK is TT unit) are a million times worse.  They appeared on new hero banners, they actually took a spot from a what would be the debut of a new character.  What about Lyn.

1st Lyn is regular Lyn.  Was launch unit, in one of the launch banners also I believe.  Nothing wrong here.

2nd Lyn is bridal Lyn.  Seasonal

3rd Lyn is CYL.  This can't be held against her, she was voted in by us.  IS has nothing to do with it.

4th Lyn is Love Abounds Lyn.  Seasonal

 

So what has she done?  Seasonals are all alts anyways, in a rare case the first appearance of a new character may be there like Spring Xander however since the beginning these banners have been predominantly alternate versions of characters already in the game.  

Where was all this hate when we got our 6th Robin?  Or the 5th who was on a new hero banner?  Not to mention the time between 5th and 6th Robin was less than the time between LA Lyn and this upcoming legendary Lyn.  Nah, it's all good people even want a 7th with Levin sword.  What about the 4th Chrom being on a new hero banner?  While these got some hate, it is nothing compared to what Lyn is unfairly getting.  

It has nothing to do with it being the 5th Lyn or even general alt hate, it is cause an old character is getting this many alts.  I mean we can have 12 Camillas, 20 Tharja, 40 Lucina, and 100 Robin and it would be cool.  However god forbid that an older character gets more than one alt.  

I hope this banner outsells every one before it.  Cause it doing bad wouldn't stop alts or anything, it would just mean we would get even more alts for characters from the 3ds games and much less from earlier games which would be an even crappier situation than we have currently.  

 

Are we going off by the Youtube dislike ratio? Because Lyn's Legendary alt was the one that's notable hate as far I can see. Everyone else has is pretty minuscule in comparison. It's not exactly unfounded either, but that doesn't really stop people at the end of the day

 

6 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

Hey, it's only fair that Lyn gets complained about after how much grief Lucina, Chrom, Xander, and Camilla got.

As if people need to be motivated to complain about anything.  You've made it vocally clear on your opinion about Lyn & Ike

6 hours ago, Cute Chao said:

I also want to add FE7 is my favourite game. Lyn used to be one of my more liked lords, but since CYL, she's been so overexposed that I've found it harder to like her. I think her inclusion in Warriors was what really set me off, though, but meh, that's in the past. I just don't want to see more of her and didn't want her to be the first representation of coloured bows like she was for horse bows. 

Ok, no. No, no, no, no, no

 

It's one thing to dislike a character because they did something incredibly questionable & stupid or downright some sort of horrible action that's completely out of character.

But the overexposure reason? No

If Genealogy Saga got more exposure & there was this sudden surge of interest of the series again, I fail completely to understand how that could be a bad thing. If Sigurd, Seliph, & Leif got 4 more alts out of nowhere, I fail to see how these obscure characters getting exposure would be a bad thing. If people actually started to hate on Sigurd, Seliph, Leif, & the Genealogy Saga as whole because all of the sudden interest in the saga & how profitable they've become I honest to God have no idea how I would react to such a thing.

 

I understand the hate Lyn's getting & the disdain towards alt in general, but if Marth, Ryoma, Sigurd, Seliph, & Lief got hated because all of the sudden they had more than 4 alts I just don't know how I would react to this. I don't understand how exposure is the worst thing that could happen to any character or franchise.

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4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Because less than one year a tradition makes.

 

Reinhardt was "the big reveal" only because they had already revealed Leaf.

Leaf himself is currently one of the best sword infantry units in the game, ranking only under Ayra (because of Regnal Astra) and Alm (because of Double Lion).

 

Remember when we thought Tempest Trials rewards would all be alternate version characters with no non-weapon skills based on exactly one example?

Boy, did they sure fool us!

 

Which is not a good thing. No one remembers the hell that was pulling for focus characters in the Blazing Shadows banner? Do we need a reminder?

Furthermore, I actually see a decent amount of posts along the lines of "I can keep saving my orbs" when a banner comes out without characters individual players are interested in. The faster characters are released, even if they're released as double 3-character banners, the fewer opportunities players will have to stockpile orbs, and the fewer orbs players will have to try for those characters.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the developers are now releasing all non-Legendary Hero banners as 3- or 4-character banners.

 

You say that as if getting one fewer new character in each banner somehow makes it impossible to do this.

 

If you replace all of the standard-banner alts we've gotten this year with new characters, we'd have a whopping 6 more characters. Woo. So many.

Well when you start with something in a game and do it for a year, sure most people will expect it to continue.

Leif is overshadowed by Reinhardt, on his own banner, another sword unit is the prize.  Even if he is still a good infantry sword (the most common unit type in the game)

6 new characters, new faces is a lot considering how many new faces have we gotten?  6 is actually a substantial increase.  Remember the great month of February when we has one new character the whole month?  That was a blast.

 

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21 minutes ago, Iridium said:

If we exclude Tempest Trial and Grand Hero Battle characters, this is equivalent to roughly eight banners' worth of character releases at the current pace.

Five banners. We'd be short 16 new characters, not 16 new characters and 8 alts.

 

23 minutes ago, Iridium said:

The vast majority of people I have seen defending alts are usually the sort of people whose favorite character already has upwards of three of them in the first place, like Chrom or Lucina. What makes the opinion belonging to these people morally sound when their opposition is apparently selfish, if both groups would like to be appealed to at the expense of the other, one has received multiple offerings, and one has been completely ignored and has only increasingly less to look forward to as time moves on?

I haven't commented on them at all yet, actually. They're equally as selfish, but at the very least less annoyingly vocal.

However, this isn't a dichotomy. There are people with other motivations, such as those who want more stuff for the sake of having more stuff, which is the boat that I fall into. I'm indifferent to alts so long as they aren't going overboard with them, and for the time being, they haven't been. Even if we're getting an influx of them right now, it's still balanced against a year of almost not getting alts at all. (Seasonals don't count, but not because "oh, it's a gacha thing". Actually, the people who give seasonals a free pass just because "it's a gacha thing" are grating in their grumbling ignorance. Seasonals are just a themed version of promotional content, and it makes sense to create "repeats" to use for promotional content. There's nothing about it that makes it at all unique to gachas.)

I don't think they'll continue having alts on new character banners indefinitely because they'll eventually run out of characters to make alts of, and I'm not so cynical to believe that they'll start on a third set of standard-banner alts at least for some time.

There are probably other motivations, but I doubt that pure altruism is the core motivation of the vast majority of players wanting fewer alts for the purpose of having more representation.

 

3 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Well when you start with something in a game and do it for a year, sure most people will expect it to continue.

That's not how ongoing games operate and actually survive their planned lifetime. Not trying new things is just as bad as trying to shake things up too much.

 

4 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Leif is overshadowed by Reinhardt, on his own banner, another sword unit is the prize.

The best things to come out of Micaiah's banner were Zelgius's release as a mergeable high-scoring unit (for whales) and Life and Death 3 becoming available at 4-star rarity afterwards from Sothe (for serious players on a budget).

Players going for a specific character will go for that character. Players going for performance will go for performance.

 

14 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Even if he is still a good infantry sword (the most common unit type in the game)

I didn't say good. I said one of the best. And the best infantry swords are top-tier units.

And you know what? Leaf also happens to be one of the best units in the game, period.

 

16 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

6 new characters, new faces is a lot considering how many new faces have we gotten?  6 is actually a substantial increase.  Remember the great month of February when we has one new character the whole month?  That was a blast.

Remember the great month of February when we got Bold Fighter and Vengeful Fighter into the standard summoning pool? February was a wonderful month.

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13 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

The best things to come out of Micaiah's banner were Zelgius's release as a mergeable high-scoring unit (for whales) and Life and Death 3 becoming available at 4-star rarity afterwards from Sothe (for serious players on a budget).

Players going for a specific character will go for that character. Players going for performance will go for performance.

I didn't say good. I said one of the best. And the best infantry swords are top-tier units.

And you know what? Leaf also happens to be one of the best units in the game, period..

I think the problem isn't exactly that Leif isn't the best unit in banner (in fact, Myrhh is usually considered the better unit compared with SM!Eirika, which is an alt, and the banner's "main character"; the same happened with Zelgius and Micaiah as you said)... The problem is that Leif ended up feeling like an after-thought instead of the banner's main character.

But I agree other-wise.

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25 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I didn't say good. I said one of the best. And the best infantry swords are top-tier units.

And you know what? Leaf also happens to be one of the best units in the game, period.

I wish my Erika could do instant Aether on PP and still activate more Aethers on EP, not to mention the juicy Arena points from boost stats and special B skill.

25 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Remember the great month of February when we got Bold Fighter and Vengeful Fighter into the standard summoning pool? February was a wonderful month.

Indeed, it was! Sadly I did not get any Bold fighter fodder. :(

 

As someone who only cares about Performance, I don't like this new Lyn as much as I hoped. I wish she had Sacae's Blessing instead of the new A skill (which is worse than Fury in terms of versatility). Being Green instead of Blue really hurts her too.

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9 minutes ago, Troykv said:

I think the problem isn't exactly that Leif isn't the best unit in banner (in fact, Myrhh is usually considered the better unit compared with SM!Eirika, which is an alt, and the banner's "main character"; the same happened with Zelgius and Micaiah as you said)... The problem is that Leif ended up feeling like an after-thought instead of the banner's main character.

But I agree other-wise.

I genuinely feel like the only reason Leif felt like an afterthought is because the fandom made such a big fuss about Reinhardt. Yeah, he's great, but Leif is hardly a slouch. He's got what's effectively a 23 might weapon against basically all physical enemies that don't have garbage defense (whom he doesn't need it for anyway) on top of pretty good strength and insane speed. S Drink isn't the greatest thing in the world, but it's still a second QP if you really want to use it over something like desperation. I mean, honestly, it seems like the put a lot more effort into Leif than they actually did Reinhardt. He's got a horse so that's an advantage, and yeah his stats and skills are great, but if you actually compare their kits, Leif's is a lot more unique and interesting. It's just EP brave is really hard to compete with.

3 minutes ago, Clogon said:

I wish my Erika could do instant Aether on PP and still activate more Aethers on EP, not to mention the juicy Arena points from boost stats and special B skill.

Indeed, it was! Sadly I did not get any Bold fighter fodder. :(

 

As someone who only cares about Performance, I don't like this new Lyn as much as I hoped. I wish she had Sacae's Blessing instead of the new A skill (which is worse than Fury in terms of versatility). Being Green instead of Blue really hurts her too.

Agreed on new Lyn. I still want her because I love her outfit, but she does seem to be a bit of a letdown. She's got an EP skill on someone who'd generally be a PP unit, and Swift Mulagir seems like it might be a little awkward to use.

I suppose fortunately for game balance, it seems they've realized Sacae's Blessing was a mistake in terms of game dominance so I doubt they'll be quick to add something like that in again. If they do, I'm guess it'll probably be something that's effective against only one type of weapon rather than a whole spectrum, though that'd still be potentially really good.

On an unrelated note, I'm really tired of people bitching about how awful TT and GHB units are. Sure a decent number are garbage, but most of them range from having a useful niche to being very good. Their biggest issues are lack of merges and no access to IVs, both of which would be nice for there to be a way to fix. I mean, honestly though, what do you want? Them to give out the BK and Brave Lyn everytime?

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1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Remember the great month of February when we got Bold Fighter and Vengeful Fighter into the standard summoning pool? February was a wonderful month.

Yep, totally a great month for whales, but a boring month with only one new character for F2P players

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1 minute ago, Poimagic said:

Yep, totally a great month for whales, but a boring month with only one new character for F2P players

F2P or not has nothing to do with whether a character is desirable for someone, nor does it have any effect on what they can pull.  You think F2P players can't be excited over F!Celica, M!Grima or the Valentine's units, or that it was somehow impossible for a F2P to pull any newly added unit except Hardin?

Don't presume that everyone has the same priorities you do.

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2 minutes ago, YotsuMaboroshi said:

F2P or not has nothing to do with whether a character is desirable for someone, nor does it have any effect on what they can pull.  You think F2P players can't be excited over F!Celica, M!Grima or the Valentine's units, or that it was somehow impossible for a F2P to pull any newly added unit except Hardin?

Don't presume that everyone has the same priorities you do.

Sorry, should’ve phrased that better. What I meant to say is that F2P players can’t reap the reward of Bold Fighter and Vengful Fighter being in the summoning pool do to the the sources of it being 5 star exclusive or seasonal. Only whales can reap the full benefit of this addition

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43 minutes ago, Poimagic said:

Sorry, should’ve phrased that better. What I meant to say is that F2P players can’t reap the reward of Bold Fighter and Vengful Fighter being in the summoning pool do to the the sources of it being 5 star exclusive or seasonal. Only whales can reap the full benefit of this addition

This is true.  FTP would be lucky to pull both Hardin and M F Robin from the banner.  Then on top of that even luckier if they get good IVs, or at least not bad IVs.  While whales probably got Grima+10, Hardin+10 and slapped VF and BF on every other armor they have.  I avoided that banner cause I didn't actually 'need' any of the characters gameplay wise, but I love Hardin and didn't pull cause of the alts.  Now I see there will always be alts, so I regret not pulling for Hardin back then.  Every time I run into one in arena or whatever and see him do his evil lance spin I am saddened.  

Back to the point those great new skills could have been put on actual new units.  Well Hardin is new, but I don't want to get into the Grima argument again.  The point it didn't need to be one new unit and 2 great skills, it could have been all new characters and those 2 skills. I'm all for new skills, unit types, weapons coming into the pool and such.  However that doesn't mean it has to be on alt characters, those could come on new characters.  Best of both worlds.  I'll also say in response to an earlier comment, yes I want every character in every Fire Emblem in the game.  I would rather have every character in the game before a single alt.  Yes I know not every character is the greatest most unique thing ever, but likely most everyone has its fans and it is good for them to get their fav in.  New characters excite me much more than alts.  They probably excite players who come to Heroes without ever playing any of the main series a lot more too.  Like they have no connection to Lyn, Lucina, or whatever popular character so seeing their face over and over again isn't going to stir anything.  Seeing a new face would be much more exciting.  

On Leif, yeah I'm hard on him, he was the most interesting character on the banner as far as his skillset/weapon.  However Reinhardt was the most powerful by some margin, I would say he is close to as interesting just cause of being the first with brave on enemy and player phase.  

Edited by Lewyn
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10 hours ago, SilvertheShadow said:

Star Wars: Battlefront 2 and Heroes are entirely different games with entirely different audiences, and the issues brought up with both games are completely different here. In other words, it’s comparing comparing apples to oranges concerning the outcries of both games.

I was just wondering if the dislike the game received had a greater voice than profits enough to influence the profit for the game. Sure, completely different games and mechanics, but I was curious if the negative reception to some decisions mattered if the game was profiting enough for EA.

Edited by silveraura25
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14 minutes ago, Iridium said:

with a few rejects handed out for free via events, killing their stats and potential for the sake of at least getting them into the game.

That is not entirely bad though. Many players rather get a free neutral copy than spend Orbs trying to summon their favorite character.

16 minutes ago, Iridium said:

How much more can you possibly defend them for taking from the people who still wish to see new heroes?

Money and expectations.

Since I do not know whether alts actually make more money than new characters, I am putting my faith in Intelligent System's sales team and management that they would make the right decision, so this could be for or against alts depending on profitability. Based on the changes to their sales model, I think they are giving an alt heavy Foci a test run to see whether they increase revenue or not. However, in order to do that, they need to try out different sales models. I am personally indifferent to alts, since the experience of having Advance Wars cancelled changed how I view games and what my priorities are. With that being said, I do agree that they should tone down their alt releases next year (I am assuming this year's banners are already all planned out, so changing them is unreasonable) to protect their brand and to keep players happy and loyal. While branding, image, and reputation is difficult to gauge in the short term, profits do depend on it in the long term.

I think players are putting too much expectation into precedents and wanting the game to adhere to a pattern. As @Ice Dragon said, one year probably is not enough to establish anything as a tradition. Even if it is enough to establish a tradition, I do not mind the developers shaking things up. Even if shaking things up too much is bad, the developers probably did not expect releasing this many alts of popular characters would receive that many negative reactions.

1 minute ago, Zangetsu said:

Are we going off by the Youtube dislike ratio? Because Lyn's Legendary alt was the one that's notable hate as far I can see. Everyone else has is pretty minuscule in comparison. It's not exactly unfounded either, but that doesn't really stop people at the end of the day

FV!F!Robin got 399 dislikes. It is no where near LOTW!Lyn's 1,000+ dislikes, but she was definitely significantly more disliked than the rest. I do not blame the developers for missing that signal, but I hope they notice the 1,000+ dislikes. They probably cannot do anything about it in the short term, or even for the rest of this year, but I am pretty certain they will do something about it next year.

1 hour ago, Clogon said:

As someone who only cares about Performance, I don't like this new Lyn as much as I hoped. I wish she had Sacae's Blessing instead of the new A skill (which is worse than Fury in terms of versatility). Being Green instead of Blue really hurts her too.

I do not think you should expect nuclear performance on a unit designed as ranged magic counter though. LOTW!Lyn performance as a mage counter has actually exceeded my expectations. Celica is the most effective anti anti-meta mage due to the brute force she can muster from Ragnarok, and LOTW!Lyn as a green unit has no trouble countering Celica with a neutral nature, Moonbow inheritance, and Quick Riposte on her Sacred Seal slot; you can also do an additional Dull Range inheritance if you want to be completely Celica proof. In contrast, your typical anti-meta mage tanks/counters like Felicia and Niles need a bit more resources to build a very specific skill set [+Spd, -Def, Felicia's Plate [Spd]/Guard Bow [Spd], Moonbow, Fury, Dull Range, Quick Riposte] to completely shut her down (assuming both are at the same merge levels).

You can still use her as a nuke if you overhaul her skill set.

LOTW!Lyn +Spd -Def
Swift Mulagir, Moonbow
Swift Sparrow, Desperation
Speed +3
Swift Mulagir's effect is active.
Enemies +5, +Spd, Moonbow, Fury
Player Phase 146:19:80
Player Phase [4/4/0/0] 160:18:67

For comparison:

Nino +Spd, -Def
Gronnblade
Swift Sparrow, Desperation
Speed +3
4/4/0/0
Enemies +5, +Spd, Moonbow, Fury
Player Phase 161:43:41

 

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7 hours ago, Zangetsu said:

Ok, no. No, no, no, no, no

It's one thing to dislike a character because they did something incredibly questionable & stupid or downright some sort of horrible action that's completely out of character.

But the overexposure reason? No

If Genealogy Saga got more exposure & there was this sudden surge of interest of the series again, I fail completely to understand how that could be a bad thing. If Sigurd, Seliph, & Leif got 4 more alts out of nowhere, I fail to see how these obscure characters getting exposure would be a bad thing. If people actually started to hate on Sigurd, Seliph, Leif, & the Genealogy Saga as whole because all of the sudden interest in the saga & how profitable they've become I honest to God have no idea how I would react to such a thing.

 

I understand the hate Lyn's getting & the disdain towards alt in general, but if Marth, Ryoma, Sigurd, Seliph, & Lief got hated because all of the sudden they had more than 4 alts I just don't know how I would react to this. I don't understand how exposure is the worst thing that could happen to any character or franchise.

Good to know you can tell me why I get to dislike a character. 

Overexposure means that you get sick of seeing them. Five lyns in a game where most people don't even have one character yet is too much. It generates ire. Warriors was another thing - SD got three characters without dlc but they touted it as one of the main games in focus... But Lyn and Celica got in? Sorry, but whether you like it or not, people do get sick of this sort of thing. I've tried not to let it affect my like for the character, and I'm even writing a fanfiction with a friend to get more insight into her again and remember why I liked her. 

Incidentally, Reinhardt has got a lot of hate lately for his overexposure. He's from Jugdral and was pretty obscure. So yes, anyone can get hate if they're shoved in our faces so often, their original character loses meaning to you, whether they're obscure or not.

Adding to this, Jugdral has got more exposure, not overexposure. It has barely any of its characters in the game. I'd like to see some more exposure for it, but that likely won't be the case cos it's doubtful it will ever be as profitable as main lord alts.

Edited by Cute Chao
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3 hours ago, Cute Chao said:

Good to know you can tell me why I get to dislike a character. 

Overexposure means that you get sick of seeing them. Five lyns in a game where most people don't even have one character yet is too much. It generates ire. Warriors was another thing - SD got three characters without dlc but they touted it as one of the main games in focus... But Lyn and Celica got in? Sorry, but whether you like it or not, people do get sick of this sort of thing.

I agree with all of this. I've gotten sick of seeing Lyn now too. And yet, I'm trying not to let it affect my view on the CYL Lyn and Bride Lyn that I have. I actually like Bride Lyn too, not just because of her IVs being real good either (+Spd, -HP), but also because I found her lines amusing. But now I don't want to touch them again for a long time because I just do not want to see Lyn anymore for a long long time.

Good thing I pulled Mist on Easter.

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3 hours ago, Cute Chao said:

Incidentally, Reinhardt has got a lot of hate lately for his overexposure.

He has only gotten one alt, though. Lyn has got like 250% more exposure than he did.

3 hours ago, Cute Chao said:

I'd like to see some more exposure for it, but that likely won't be the case cos it's doubtful it will ever be as profitable as main lord alts.

We actually do not know if the main lord alts are more profitable than less popular characters as new Heroes. Intelligent Systems is probably as clueless as we are so they are trying a different sales approach to see if alts are indeed profitable. They cannot do anything about their alt heavy Foci idea in the short term, so we should expect alt heavy Foci to come in the next several months and maybe the rest of the year. The best thing anti alt players can do now is to just keep sending negative Feedback and press the dislike button, as well as backing up their words by spending less on the game and ideally convince others to spend less as well.

Edited by XRay
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7 hours ago, XRay said:

FV!F!Robin got 399 dislikes. It is no where near LOTW!Lyn's 1,000+ dislikes, but she was definitely significantly more disliked than the rest. I do not blame the developers for missing that signal, but I hope they notice the 1,000+ dislikes. They probably cannot do anything about it in the short term, or even for the rest of this year, but I am pretty certain they will do something about it next year.

If Marth gets an additional 4 alts this year & people complain about it, I'm just going to give up in general.

 

4 hours ago, Cute Chao said:

Good to know you can tell me why I get to dislike a character. 

Overexposure means that you get sick of seeing them. Five lyns in a game where most people don't even have one character yet is too much. It generates ire. Warriors was another thing - SD got three characters without dlc but they touted it as one of the main games in focus... But Lyn and Celica got in? Sorry, but whether you like it or not, people do get sick of this sort of thing. I've tried not to let it affect my like for the character, and I'm even writing a fanfiction with a friend to get more insight into her again and remember why I liked her. 

Incidentally, Reinhardt has got a lot of hate lately for his overexposure. He's from Jugdral and was pretty obscure. So yes, anyone can get hate if they're shoved in our faces so often, their original character loses meaning to you, whether they're obscure or not.

Adding to this, Jugdral has got more exposure, not overexposure. It has barely any of its characters in the game. I'd like to see some more exposure for it, but that likely won't be the case cos it's doubtful it will ever be as profitable as main lord alts.

Going off your logic, it sounds like the worst thing to happen to any character is just exposure in general. You said Lyn used to be one your more liked lords but apparently ever since Warriors include her & the way Heroes treat her. If Warriors & Heroes never existed to begin with, does Lyn remain one of your more liked lords because the lack of exposure? I really don't believe there's this sweet spot people keep claiming about. Why should someone like Seliph wait for each year to get an alt?

 

But you know what, react the way you want to react. There's only so much subjective arguments I can actually make

Edited by Zangetsu
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36 minutes ago, Zangetsu said:

Going off your logic, it sounds like the worst thing to happen to any character is just exposure in general. You said Lyn used to be one your more liked lords but apparently ever since Warriors include her & the way Heroes treat her. If Warriors & Heroes never existed to begin with, does Lyn remain one of your more liked lords because the lack of exposure? I really don't believe there's this sweet spot people keep claiming about. Why should someone like Seliph wait for each year to get an alt?

But you know what, react the way you want to react. There's only so much subjective arguments I can actually make

Most likely, yes. If Lyn had appeared as a many character in Warriors 2, for instance, that would have been fine. But, again, they include her at a detriment to others (it feels). It is subjective... but then if you ate the same thing again and again and again, no matter if you liked it, you'd soon get sick of it, especially if someone was giving you it instead of your favourite foods. Lyn was one of my more liked lords, but note I did not say character. I don't particularly like many of the lords anyway - they're all around the middle of the list for me. Some I like more for their designs than their personality, because I am shallow with characters. I go by appearance first and then see what I think of their personality. Honestly, toss me a new handsome male character from any of the games and I'm happy - as are many with pretty females instead. There may not be a sweet spot that stops people from reacting this way, but at the same time, shoving five variants in a fairly short space of time is definitely not getting anywhere close. 

I have still defended Lyn online, for people making things up about her to make their dislike more 'acceptable', since I don't like people telling lies about a character, but overexposure is always going to cause problems in a game like this. And Seliph shouldn't have to wait a year to get an alt - there are legendary banners and seasonal banners for alts already. Heck, one of Lyn's several variants could have gone to him. She gets four separate variants while, so far, Seliph and Marth have none. So even some of the people who like all the alts we're getting are getting annoyed at it (again, just going by what I can read online. It's likely the majority is happy and silent... but how can you tell?).

39 minutes ago, XRay said:

He has only gotten one alt, though. Lyn has got like 250% more exposure than he did.

We actually do not know if the main lord alts are more profitable than less popular characters as new Heroes. Intelligent Systems is probably as clueless as we are so they are trying a different sales approach to see if alts are indeed profitable. They cannot do anything about their alt heavy Foci idea in the short term, so we should expect alt heavy Foci to come in the next several months and maybe the rest of the year. The best thing anti alt players can do now is to just keep sending negative Feedback and press the dislike button, as well as backing up their words by spending less on the game and ideally convince others to spend less as well.

I'm not sure... I mean, Roderick and Luke definitely didn't help with things, but then I feel like they were never amazingly popular characters. At least include people like Silas, who others have been clamouring for, and then the alts can be used more with people like them. Or even have a downtime banner - one you expect to take a bit of a hit on - to foster good will. The community is getting unhappier online with each banner - and I'm not saying it's not the minority or anything like that, but at the moment people who do enjoy the banners are feeling like they can't because of other people's reactions (which again, not saying it's right either, but there is no way people aren't going to vent their anger online). 

Also, for Reinhardt, I don't think he'd have gained as much anger as he did had he not been in the common pool as an alt, like with the rest of them. I was disappointed to see him even though he's now my second favourite FE character, mostly because of  how dependable he is in Heroes and how much I like his art, voice and quotes. Yes, I have played Thracia, too, and I liked him there, but not to the extent as you barely had time to get to know most of the characters. But I have played this game for a year now - more than I've played any other game apart from Pokemon (used to be the only games I played back in the say). Of course it's going to influence how I see characters. However, I wanted to see more Thracians in the pool, with Reinhardt getting some kind of seasonal art, because I wanted to see how he would react in different circumstances (see Alfonse in bunny suit). I actually like the seasonals - I think they're a fun way of introducing alts and don't have to be ridiculous (imagine if Hinoka, Eirika, Reinhardt and Olwen had been introduced on a different themed banner... promotions, etc, could have been used instead). 

But I've sent my feedback and I've pressed the dislike as per the norm. I hope that the sales figures back me up, but who knows? I've stopped spending money on the banners, though I know I won't stop pulling for the characters I like since that just does my game harm in the long run, and I do still like the characters I like.

Edited by Cute Chao
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11 hours ago, Troykv said:

I think the problem isn't exactly that Leif isn't the best unit in banner (in fact, Myrhh is usually considered the better unit compared with SM!Eirika, which is an alt, and the banner's "main character"; the same happened with Zelgius and Micaiah as you said)... The problem is that Leif ended up feeling like an after-thought instead of the banner's main character.

But I agree other-wise.

I'm going to fully agree with @bottlegnomes here. Leaf got a stellar stat distribution, a powerful weapon with a unique effect, and a good passive B skill with a unique effect.

Comparatively, Reinhardt literally has his previous stat distribution plus the Gen 2 bonus stats and got a "we couldn't think of a way to make a Brave Sword interesting, so have one that works on both phases".

In terms of effort put into design, Reinhardt clearly got a lot less than Leaf.

 

10 hours ago, Poimagic said:

Sorry, should’ve phrased that better. What I meant to say is that F2P players can’t reap the reward of Bold Fighter and Vengful Fighter being in the summoning pool do to the the sources of it being 5 star exclusive or seasonal. Only whales can reap the full benefit of this addition

9 hours ago, Lewyn said:

This is true.  FTP would be lucky to pull both Hardin and M F Robin from the banner.  Then on top of that even luckier if they get good IVs, or at least not bad IVs.  While whales probably got Grima+10, Hardin+10 and slapped VF and BF on every other armor they have.

You're missing the point of the ramifications of them being added to the standard summoning pool. They now have the opportunity to actually appear on side banners, which many times have favorable color distributions and nowadays are often 3-character banners. Grima has already appeared on the Nowi and Tiki Bound Hero Battle banner. I wouldn't be surprised if Hardin showed up on a "Heroes with low-HP skills" banner or "Heroes with armor Fighter skills" (Hardin, Grima, and Effie) or something like that.

In addition, they now have the opportunity to pity-break you, and with the recent de-dilution of the 5-star pool, the chance of getting them as a pity breaker has increased rather significantly (obviously it's not at the point where you can actually expect to specifically get one as as a pity breaker, but assuming the condition that you pull is an off-banner 5-star, the chances are much higher).

@Poimagic You say "only whales can reap the full benefit" as if there are only few things that do this. Sothe being added to the 4-star pool benefits whales more than free-to-play. The de-dilution of the 5-star pool benefits whales more than free-to-play.

@Lewyn You can have the shittiest nature possible on them, and that still doesn't change the fact they have Bold Fighter and Vengeful Fighter. If you look up, you'll note that my original comment was Bold Fighter and Vengeful Fighter added to the standard summoning pool, not Hardin and Grima.

Oh, and while I'm on the subject of February and armors, you know what else was in February? Armored Boots.

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1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm going to fully agree with @bottlegnomes here. Leaf got a stellar stat distribution, a powerful weapon with a unique effect, and a good passive B skill with a unique effect.

Comparatively, Reinhardt literally has his previous stat distribution plus the Gen 2 bonus stats and got a "we couldn't think of a way to make a Brave Sword interesting, so have one that works on both phases".

In terms of effort put into design, Reinhardt clearly got a lot less than Leaf.

And actually I agree; Leif has amazing and unique stuff is his own... I guess is just the effect of over hyping the New Reinhardt that made Leif look less important.

Edited by Troykv
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