Gender locked classes:Yay or Nay?

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

19 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

"Pegasi don't like men" is pretty weak lore anyway to be honest - it doesn't make much sense (animals typically don't give a fuck about the gender of other animals) and it doesn't actually add anything to the world. It also references something quite ugly IMO, the unicorn myth which treats women's virginity as having inherent worth. (Although in FE's defence, it doesn't seem to care about that particular aspect... but it still feels pointless.)

They have said that they choose purehearted people. The Tenma from Hoshido are a bit less picky, but still have the pure heart requirement, while the pegasi from the other worlds only choose purehearted maidens. It's not solely based on gender and definitely doesn't have anything to do with virginity.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I agree, virginity is never mentioned in FE's version of it, which is why I said it merely referenced a similar trope about it.

I don't remember which games talk about pegasi preferring "purehearted" riders (and in fact a few pegasus riders I can think of the series would seem to contradict this, namely the ones fought as bosses and even arguably Farina) but if so that hews even more uncomfortably close to the unicorn myth where "pure" had a different meaning (as did "maiden").

Regardless I don't really get wanting to fight to keep this particular piece of lore.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

1 minute ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I agree, virginity is never mentioned in FE's version of it, which is why I said it merely referenced a similar trope about it.

I don't remember which games talk about pegasi preferring "purehearted" riders (and in fact a few pegasus riders I can think of the series would seem to contradict this, namely the ones fought as bosses and even arguably Farina) but if so that hews even more uncomfortably close to the unicorn myth where "pure" had a different meaning (as did "maiden").

Regardless I don't really get wanting to fight to keep this particular piece of lore.

Fates definitely does talk about it, and I believe Judgral had it too. Can't remember for Archanea. I don't think Elibe and Magvel expanded on it much, and I'm unfamiliar with Tellius.

I don't really care if it gets taken away or not, just wanted to bring up what's there.

[CyberController]

I personally don't see the need for gender-based classes. Perhaps some classes could be renamed depending on gender (Butler vs Maid), but it's kinda bullshit that some classes are locked. Especially in games with reclassing.

[Emperor Hardin]

48 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

They have said that they choose purehearted people. The Tenma from Hoshido are a bit less picky, but still have the pure heart requirement, while the pegasi from the other worlds only choose purehearted maidens. It's not solely based on gender and definitely doesn't have anything to do with virginity.

Pamela in Genealogy of the Holy War, a FalcoKnight, was a psychotic killer who openly bragged about murder.

Edited May 1, 2018 by Emperor Hardin

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

1 minute ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Pamela in Genealogy of the Holy War, a FalcoKnight, was a psychotic killer who bragged about murder.

They also do say that once a pegasus bonds with a rider, they are forever loyal, so that could be why.

[Emperor Hardin]

1 minute ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

They also do say that once a pegasus bonds with a rider, they are forever loyal, so that could be why.

Then how come Peri can become a falcoknight.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

1 minute ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Then how come Peri can become a falcoknight.

Funnily enough, she actually can't access that unless you choose Pegasus Knight for M!Corrin and then marry her... In any case, reclassing breaks pretty much every rule there is, so I'm not sure if that logic applies.

[Emperor Hardin]

1 minute ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Funnily enough, she actually can't access that unless you choose Pegasus Knight for M!Corrin and then marry her... In any case, reclassing breaks pretty much every rule there is, so I'm not sure if that logic applies.

Thats what I mean with bond seals.

For some male examples, Fighter Donnel and Barbarian Laurent.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

There's nothing added to a game when you gender lock classes. Well, maybe there is one thing, though it is a reprieve from a larger issue - unit identity. With every character being a reclassing sack of stats, gender locked classes are the last remaining vestige of unit identity.

[CyberController]

1 minute ago, Glennstavos said:

There's nothing added to a game when you gender lock classes. Well, maybe there is one thing, though it is a reprieve from a larger issue - unit identity. With every character being a reclassing sack of stats, gender locked classes are the last remaining vestige of unit identity.

There are characters with unique classes, so there is unit identity there.

[foxysauce]

 

10 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

There's nothing added to a game when you gender lock classes. Well, maybe there is one thing, though it is a reprieve from a larger issue - unit identity. With every character being a reclassing sack of stats, gender locked classes are the last remaining vestige of unit identity.

I think there is more to unit identity than stats and class. In part a units identity is defined by the role they play in our army, which is decided not by their class or stats, but by our choices as a player. Where we position them on the field, what actions we ask them to take, and the relations to the other characters that we create for them. 

[Emperor Hardin]

19 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

There's nothing added to a game when you gender lock classes. Well, maybe there is one thing, though it is a reprieve from a larger issue - unit identity. With every character being a reclassing sack of stats, gender locked classes are the last remaining vestige of unit identity.

I like unit identity, but when everyone can reclass into any class, barring gender locked classes, whats the point of gender locked classes?

 

[Strullemia]

I've always liked the lore behind the Pegasi class and I've always liked female pegasi knights while I was mostly eh on Subaki but I guess we'll see what IS does with them in FE16.

Edited May 1, 2018 by Hekselka

[ping]

35 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

There's nothing added to a game when you gender lock classes. Well, maybe there is one thing, though it is a reprieve from a larger issue - unit identity. With every character being a reclassing sack of stats, gender locked classes are the last remaining vestige of unit identity.

I would say that Fates' way of handling it, giving every unit only two total options (four after promotion), already addresses this. Partner/Friendship seals worsen it again, unfortunately, but genderlocked classes really aren't necessary to keep units unique as long as the reclassing system as a whole is reasonably balanced.

[Michelaar]

It's 2018. Genders don't matter. Gender equality!!!!

[Johann]

54 minutes ago, foxysauce said:

I think there is more to unit identity than stats and class. In part a units identity is defined by the role they play in our army, which is decided not by their class or stats, but by our choices as a player. Where we position them on the field, what actions we ask them to take, and the relations to the other characters that we create for them. 

Exactly, player choice is everything

[Florete]

In theory I think I could be cool with a gender-locked class if it was a legitimate part of the lore, but I don't see it happening in a way that actually feels natural. Pegasi only choosing women is not natural. It's an explanation for a forced mechanic; it's backwards. I would need to believe that the mechanic exists for the lore, not the lore for the mechanic.

[Cysx]

I welcome almost any kind of uniqueness that can be brought to individual units(basically if being male is part of what makes an unit distinct from the others, from a gameplay perspective I feel that it's a good thing), and really don't think it's a game developper's role to fix the wrongs of the world, especially if doing so would limit their creative freedom(which, let's be honest, it almost always would to an extent).

That being said, gender is clearly an important subject for a portion of the FE fanbase, and it's a minor enough change that I don't really mind if genderlock is out. Plus I do enjoy my female berserkers as well.

Edited May 1, 2018 by Cysx

[Rose482]

Nay, I truly don't think gender locked classes did any good to FE as a whole,  and i was glad when FE14 finally got rid of it.

 

[Sasori]

I don't have any problems with gender specific classes in theory, but I never really liked the way how they'd done it.

In most games the guys get a boring axe fighter and another boring axe fighter while the girls get flying ponies and healing/spell slinging cavalry. In awakening there was the cool and useful dread fighter class for males and a hard to use support based class for the girls. One almost always has it better then the other and I don't like how different the gender exclusive classes are from each other.

The gender locked classes I would not have a problem with would be when both get a class with the same theme. So for example male mages could promote to the sage class and gain acces to stave while female mages could promote into witches with superior offensive power or some teleportation skills. Males could get Berserkers while females could get a new axe wielding amazon class.

[Corrobin]

Nah, I want more female Mercs and Fighters and Pirates, and more male Peg Knights

[redtutel]

12 hours ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

definitely doesn't have anything to do with virginity.

Yup. Otherwise Sumia wouldn't be a pegasus knight post chapter 11 if she married Chrom.

[Avarice Shadow]

I think they should get rid of gender locked classes but have it so that more of a certain genders stick out more in different classes. It would make characters stand out more when they're in (or can be reclassed to) certain classes. 

[SuperIb]

Mmmm there's no real point in having gender-locked classes, regardless if there are "lore" reasons (not that any reason made sense in the first place).