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Twitch Plays Pokemon Mafia NOC(15p)(GAME OVER TOWN WINS)


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Just now, Eurykins said:

...Have you read ANYTHING that I posted so far today/tonight? I don't... even... what????

I read all of your posts for the first 48 hours.  Didn't read anything in the last 12 hours.

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3 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

Constructing a post, but just want to respond to this.

Now that it's out in the open, do you not think Refa might have noticed the same thing I did, and Eury did, and so know that you didn't have a guilty on him?

Noticed what thing?  The self-watcher thing? No I don't buy into that because there are plenty of things that could be the answer why I said that.  Self-watcher isn't the first thing that pops into my head when I see something like that though.  I also don't think self-watcher is that common of a role.

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I think Refa/SB/Bartozio are all mafia together.

Beginning from the anarchy phase, after his main scumread had been lynched, Refa started sheeping SB for his Athena case, despite the fact that SB had been a constant low-priority scum in his day 1. Bartozio also had a weird objection to Athena looking at the people on the Evan wagon. He had Refa as the most suspicious person on that wagon after Rad.

Day 3, Refa and Bartozio developed as the early wagons (with the voting levels this phase, I will count 2 votes as a wagon). Bartozio wasn't around, Refa focussed on Conqueror. He didn't mention Bartozio or the cases on him, outside of asking Athena and Conqueror if they thought they could be buddies. PEDIT: Refa, Bartozio has posted a couple of hours ago fyi.

Around the middle of the phase, Eury became a wagon based on her reaction to the guilty and being more passive D3. Sb was the first to vote her, Refa joined him. Bartozio was around, I know this because I called him out, but he didn't post at all. SB went back to Bartozio, it was kind of sudden, even nebulous. Eury is sick, so her posts are more natural, which is worth enough townie points to put her back below Bartozio. It felt like he just wanted to get off her, but his vote on Bartozio wasn't doing much.

SB seems to be a wagon now, based on his interaction with kill and the way he pushed Eury. Bartozio has come back, and put forward a case on Athena not unlike Refa's case on Conqueror, but with much less time left to try and argue it. If he's town, he's probably come to try and avoid being lynched, why does he decide on someone who's generally being townread and doesn't have any votes on them? If he's scum, and SB's town, why does he avoid pushing SB?

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I'd be a lot more motivated if I was scum w/SB (that's the dream).

Already mentioned that my read on SB changed after reading the later D1 posts (which I didn't get to do on D1).  This feels very surface level, because me/SB interacted a decent bit and you're just ignoring all of our interactions.  Surely you'd get something if my scumbuddy SB was hard defending me?

Also I mentioned that I'd sheep SB's case on Bartozio.  Why would SB switch from Bartozio to Eurykins back to Bartozio if he was planning on bussing Bartozio?

I can get you being suspicious of Bartozio not pushing me (uh...did he push me?  I'm going to assume not because you didn't mention it), but him not pushing Town!SB makes perfect sense lol considering SB is mostly townread.

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5 minutes ago, Shinori said:

Noticed what thing?  The self-watcher thing? No I don't buy into that because there are plenty of things that could be the answer why I said that.  Self-watcher isn't the first thing that pops into my head when I see something like that though. 

Self-watcher is the first thing that pops into my head, and eury agrees. I think if scum!refa hadn't targetted you, and saw that crumb, he would decide that just surrendering wouldn't be worth it.

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Sorry for lapse in posting. Was assisting Shinori in cooking foods 'cause he has to be up tomorrow morning early for work, so foods needed to get done. Will get my other posts up in a bit after eating.

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1 minute ago, Refa said:

I'd be a lot more motivated if I was scum w/SB (that's the dream).

Already mentioned that my read on SB changed after reading the later D1 posts (which I didn't get to do on D1).  This feels very surface level, because me/SB interacted a decent bit and you're just ignoring all of our interactions.  Surely you'd get something if my scumbuddy SB was hard defending me?

Also I mentioned that I'd sheep SB's case on Bartozio.  Why would SB switch from Bartozio to Eurykins back to Bartozio if he was planning on bussing Bartozio?

I can get you being suspicious of Bartozio not pushing me (uh...did he push me?  I'm going to assume not because you didn't mention it), but him not pushing Town!SB makes perfect sense lol considering SB is mostly townread.

1. Your progression on him went

a. gut scum along with me, on the basis on the randa votes

b. you thought he was distant

c. worth voting over randa, but not over evan.

I'm doubtful that you found his late D1 good. It was just as distant as his earlier posts (I mean, his vote was on athena at EoD rather than either wagon. ED2 we knew Evan was town, and if you believed Rad was town I'd think you'd be suspicious of his voting pattern.)

Right, I knew I missed something. SB has been mostly defending you, and been pushing both the early counterwagons to you on D3. Also, I felt he questioned me a lot regarding my randa vote D1, but not much regarding my vote on you D3. This is weird, considering he was scumreading randa but townreading you.

 

2. The Eury switch was trying to get a counterwagon on town going. Switching back to bartozio because it wasn't catching on, and if he stayed on it he would get less towncred from bart's flip.

 

3. He didn't push you, he pushed Athena, who is just as townread as SB is.

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X3IWMML.gif

If you are Shinori you probably have scum, if we're assuming you're the night kill in your eury defense scenario.

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So either I'm not self-watcher.

I am a self watcher but only saw one person visit me last night(in which case I don't out that?)

I am a self watcher and saw two people visit me and just chose to not push those two people for questions or instantly vote the person who I found more scummy of the two.

:Thunk:

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Scenario one's probably more likely bc I would think scenario three would've been sorted out by now and/or if one of those people were someone you'd pushed, they would be scrutinized for any indication of hidden knowledge to strengthen or weaken your convictions.

Scenario two is unlikely imo.

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THE RETURN OF VOTAL BOT SIRI 7.0
Bartozio (3):
athena_57, Killthestory, SB
SB (2): Conqueror, Orihime
athena_57 (1): Bartozio
Eurykins (1): Refa
Refa (1): Baldrick
Snike (1): Shinori

Not voting: Eurykins, Jaybee, Snike

Day 3 ends in ~11 hours. With 12 alive, it takes 4 to lynch at deadline.

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5 hours ago, Killthestory said:

like someone said jaybee was obvious town for meta reasons, so unless you guys have more knowledge on the guy than i do, he's pretty fucking wolfy to me.

That was me.  I think his quality of reads has improved drastically from his last scum game (or like...any of his scum games).  I uh...didn't actually read his latest reads post because I was lazy though, was there anything off about it?

5 hours ago, Conqueror said:

Yeah I don't think Ice Sage's catchup post looked good. The Bart and Refa reads show pretty much no original thought, I dunno what he likes about the Bart case or why he reads Refa so town. And he doesn't really post anything unless he's responding to questions from people, which is just super passive. I dunno if that makes him scum though LOL, but it's more probably from newb!scum who doesn't want to get their feet wet.

Wait, I thought you said it looked good earlier (citation needed)?  What changed?

5 hours ago, Conqueror said:

 but the way Refa just ran off doesn't feel genuine to me, like he was trying to avoid answering my points (and this is after he tried to call me out for "ignoring points in the argument that he won" or something similar.

If you want me to address something, ask.

5 hours ago, Conqueror said:

##Unvote

##Vote SB

Okay, I still think Refa is obvscum but apparently no one agrees with me which means there's the possibility I'm terribly wrong. But we can agree that if Refa is scum, SB is scum too, right? And a lot of people here think SB is scum on his own merits.

I want to try this out. I don't think I've liked SB's pushes today at all. The Eury push I felt was for really bizarre reasons, and him dropping it and jumping off so quickly makes me think it wasn't genuine since he didn't even wait for her to respond or answer questions at all.

Why would Scum!SB drop the Eury push?  What's the scum benefit there?

5 hours ago, athena_57 said:

Except my play here is nothing like my scumplay actually.

Can you explain this?  I'm not bothered by you anymore but the only major difference I can see is your reactions to being cased.

People keep on mentioning that "the last Ice post" is bad, what post are they referring too?  Fucking give links, you jerks, I can't keep up.

@Eurykins Okay, from my understanding, you're trying to push me/Shinori/SB as scum together which is ???.  Your Shinori case bothers me because all of the reasons that he's scum are just...not right.  A lot of it is "Shinori could be doing this as scum", like his reaction to SB, him not defending Evan hard enough (even though Shinori said he was okay with the lynch), his reactions to me being faked (so him pushing me too hard is faked, but him not pushing other people hard enough is scummy and it's like what do you want Shinori to even do, everything he does is scummy in your eyes), etc.  Also don't like you shading him for a claim he hasn't even made yet.  It doesn't really make me feel better about you...

@Baldrick Actually having read Bart's post now, it just reads as him tunneling Athena and not really bothering to read new cases to me.  Just feels like he's locked himself into that lynch, because he doesn't even bother responding to anything else.

35 and onwards.

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43 minutes ago, Shinori said:

I feel you aren't looking at it from the persons perspective.

Put yourself in Refa's position.  Let's say I state I have a guilty on you.  If you are town, you know you're town and you know said guilty is false.  No; does scum do something like this and trade 1 for 1 for like zero reason? No.  Any scum play that might be similiar would be super ballsy and still wouldn't end well.  Thus why Refa dropped his read on me for the most part.

And then in my position; I've already explained this.  Yeah I still feel that Refa's D1 was pretty scummy but his reaction from my PoV was good. Scum!Refa should(optimally) either start spewing or stop talking period.  That's not quite what Refa did though so I felt better about it.

I have not wrote him as obvious town though and I've even stated this before, but he's not in my lynch pile anymore at the moment.

By spewing, do you mean throw out reads to distract or otherwise create chaos in the instance his lynch is followed through? If so, I do believe he was recasting the Athena vote, waffling on about random Tailoring (and casting suspect as to "WHO WOULD WANT TO DO SO"), etc. in response to your reaction test, so to me that qualifies as spewing? Not to mention the active use of his role and then throwing out "such an obvious townie role" to justify the ENTIRE tailoring situation.

Also the FIRST BOLDED is also what I have an issue with:

YOU NEVER TRADED 1v1. You purposely hosted the entire situation to where a lynch never occurred ON your claimed guilty, therefore no death/flip/1v1 trade ever happened

Everyone who's like, "IT WOULDN'T BE WORTH IT GUYS FOR SCUM TO DO THAT" fails to realize that, in the way you did it to AVOID people piling on Refa and such, THERE WAS NO RISK? At the greatest height of risks, you pull out a cop who counterclaims. But guess what? That situation benefits scum 10x over than town does, because then someone steps forward with more information/role info. 

This is partially why I wonder if Via was janitored and had rolled cop. Because then there's no risk of pulling gambits of a fake guilty because there's no risk of someone else calling you out for it with a CC. Also being vague about the entire guilty call also entails/leaves the door open for more wiggle room of what could be considered a guilty read or not.

@Refa Sorry, but what? Shading him for a claim he hasn't openly made yet? Okay, but crumbs exist for a reason? If you want to fault me for shading a crumbing/claim, then either tell him not to crumb/claim or otherwise justify to me why town!nori would want to crumb that role (along with the hoot-hoot flavor from what I could see)?

And it's cool. It's never been my goal in life to be read positively in-thread by scum, so it's all good. :) Just be gentle if you end up shooting me next night phase in spite.

Anyways, working on my next post comin' up. Spilled some drink around my keyboard but luckily it appears to be out of harm's way! :D

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@Eurykins Correct me if I'm wrong here, but your primary reason for scumreading SB seems to be his townread of me?  Honestly, I was kind of bothered by it at first but I don't see why Scum!SB bothers to defend FHPOV a sinking ship when he could instead be like "oh yeah Conqueror, I totally agree with your scumread, let me vote there!".  Obviously that doesn't hold FYPOV but understand that I can't get behind this scumread when it's based entirely on a defense of me that would be suboptimal for scum to make FMPOV.  If SB is scum, surely there's something scummier than him defending me?

I don't really got to say anything about your read on me.  Seems like the same points I've repeatedly argued against Conqueror to me. 

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3 minutes ago, Eurykins said:

By spewing, do you mean throw out reads to distract or otherwise create chaos in the instance his lynch is followed through? If so, I do believe he was recasting the Athena vote, waffling on about random Tailoring (and casting suspect as to "WHO WOULD WANT TO DO SO"), etc. in response to your reaction test, so to me that qualifies as spewing? Not to mention the active use of his role and then throwing out "such an obvious townie role" to justify the ENTIRE tailoring situation.

Also the FIRST BOLDED is also what I have an issue with:

YOU NEVER TRADED 1v1. You purposely hosted the entire situation to where a lynch never occurred ON your claimed guilty, therefore no death/flip/1v1 trade ever happened

Everyone who's like, "IT WOULDN'T BE WORTH IT GUYS FOR SCUM TO DO THAT" fails to realize that, in the way you did it to AVOID people piling on Refa and such, THERE WAS NO RISK? At the greatest height of risks, you pull out a cop who counterclaims. But guess what? That situation benefits scum 10x over than town does, because then someone steps forward with more information/role info. 

This is partially why I wonder if Via was janitored and had rolled cop. Because then there's no risk of pulling gambits of a fake guilty because there's no risk of someone else calling you out for it with a CC. Also being vague about the entire guilty call also entails/leaves the door open for more wiggle room of what could be considered a guilty read or not.

@Refa Sorry, but what? Shading him for a claim he hasn't openly made yet? Okay, but crumbs exist for a reason? If you want to fault me for shading a crumbing/claim, then either tell him not to crumb/claim or otherwise justify to me why town!nori would want to crumb that role (along with the hoot-hoot flavor from what I could see)?

I didn't crumb any role. :)

Also if you believe this so much then why aren't you voting me by now.  You keep stopping your ISO's solely to respond to me when you could easily just respond once your done.

At this point in time I'm gonna start ignoring the posts you are making WRT me, no offense. Just pointless for me to respond anymore.

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26 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

1. Your progression on him went

a. gut scum along with me, on the basis on the randa votes

b. you thought he was distant

c. worth voting over randa, but not over evan.

I'm doubtful that you found his late D1 good. It was just as distant as his earlier posts (I mean, his vote was on athena at EoD rather than either wagon. ED2 we knew Evan was town, and if you believed Rad was town I'd think you'd be suspicious of his voting pattern.)

Right, I knew I missed something. SB has been mostly defending you, and been pushing both the early counterwagons to you on D3. Also, I felt he questioned me a lot regarding my randa vote D1, but not much regarding my vote on you D3. This is weird, considering he was scumreading randa but townreading you.

2. The Eury switch was trying to get a counterwagon on town going. Switching back to bartozio because it wasn't catching on, and if he stayed on it he would get less towncred from bart's flip.

3. He didn't push you, he pushed Athena, who is just as townread as SB is.

1. You keep on using distant, as if that's a good reason to scumread someone this late in.  I don't think Scum!SB would be frustrated if I caught on to his buddying attempt.  Also I like, literally explained my read on SB in my first D2 post.  Also, I want to focus on this last point.  Why does Scum!SB selectively defend me from Conqueror but not you?

2. But he switched before he got any backlash or most other people were on...

3. Cool, just read that.

6 minutes ago, Eurykins said:

@Refa Sorry, but what? Shading him for a claim he hasn't openly made yet? Okay, but crumbs exist for a reason? If you want to fault me for shading a crumbing/claim, then either tell him not to crumb/claim or otherwise justify to me why town!nori would want to crumb that role (along with the hoot-hoot flavor from what I could see)?

And it's cool. It's never been my goal in life to be read positively in-thread by scum, so it's all good. :) Just be gentle if you end up shooting me next night phase in spite.

But he didn't make a crumb, and you're shading him for your perceived version of his role.  That's scummy as fuck.

lol

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10 minutes ago, Refa said:

Why would Scum!SB drop the Eury push?  What's the scum benefit there?

Skimming and making a quick post since I haven't had the chance to sit down yet, but this bears mentioning because it'll probably flesh out why I'm voting SB.

A lot of SB's pushes this game have been very safe. Too safe I'd say. I haven't looked at his day one yet extensively (note to myself: see if this holds up here) but for instance when he poked at KTS he withdrew very quickly, like he didn't want to take any heat. Same with the push on Eury today - if it took him just a half-baked reads post from Eury and a short back and forth with me (I don't remember if this was a part of it but I can't check right now) to switch to Bart (who hasn't posted for the entire day to defend himself) then why was the case strong enough to push in the first place? It doesn't feel like a genuine suspicion. The scum benefit is that he takes no heat for anything he did. Like let's say @Refa there's a world you're town here. At least you stuck your neck out to attack me. I think I said somewhere early D3 that I thought SB's scumspects were too safe/lazy. I know he responded that the game felt like Persona Mafia or something and that the scum were about to be flushed out, but it's hard for me to think he genuinely had a scumread on people like the Elemina slot who had all of one or two posts.

Ice sage made a recent post, you should check it out. Uhh I don't think I said I've liked any of Ice sage's posts this game? At most I've defended him for being a newb.

I'd ask you more questions - to be honest I still want you to reply to my entire wall, but I recognize that it's not going anywhere. I'll check out what you said about Randa and see what I think about that.

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3 minutes ago, Refa said:

But he didn't make a crumb, and you're shading him for your perceived version of his role.  That's scummy as fuck.

lol

He didn't? Okay, so I guess we all have the ability to see people who visit/target us in Mafia games without having a Watcher-esque role attached to us. Or that people casually say something like this in-thread and mean nothing by it:

Quote

Boy was I a popular target last night, Hoot-hoot!  Let's get started.

Because I'm pretty sure he didn't mean that he was a POPULAR WAGON or a POPULAR VOTE CANDIDATE last night/day phase. But I could be wrong!

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