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Magnificence Incarnate

Twitch Plays Pokemon Mafia NOC(15p)(GAME OVER TOWN WINS)

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Town lean

Killthestory: Compared to his play last game, he seems a lot more engaged to the thread, and him admitting he hasn't done much after being praised is also completely different then how he interacted with people in IDNSFMM. Even disregarding the comparison, I think he has good cases and his play feels very towny. He's not always great at explaining his motivations, but his explanations are fine after he gets asked to adress them imo. (would still like to hear what changed his read on Eury though @Killthestory)

Shinori: I think Shinori has good reasonings for his pushes, and his willingness to reconsinder them (not a great wording, but I mean stuff like changing his opinion on SB after a decent
explanation and him clearifying Randa's vote wasn't OMGUS) is giving me townvibes. I feel scumnori would ignore these things a bit more.

Eurykins: Her recent post felt good to me (good amount of well explained reads), and I feel she would abuse being busy irl a bit more as scum.

baldrick: Interacted well with the thread and made good cases. Would like to hear more from them now that the game is getting active, but timezones are a thing I guess.

SB: even though I don't fully agree with his case on Athena, it makes sense why he came to the conclusion he did, and it did get us out of rvs. Afterwards, he's been reacting decently to
questions while still pushing people for opinions.


Null

Rapier: I feel like the points he made were decent, but there's not enough content from him to really make me sure of a read here.

via: Basicly the same as Rapier, hoping for more content from both of them.

Athena: As I said, scum!Athena generally plays very calculative and tries to stay out of the spotlight, which doesn't mash well with his rvs interaction with me. His playstyle after that
fits his MO quite well though, which is making me doubt that read a bit.

Scummy

Refa: Him being unmotivated is NAI, but him aparently having reads on people on Randa's wagon but not sharing any of it is bad.

Randa: His posts feel all over the place (in a bad way). It feels like he's making up his reasoning for stuff after the fact, instead of actually having said reasoning at the time
(the thing I pointed out when voting him is one example, I'll see if I have time to dig up other examples later).

non posters:
@EvanManManMan: I don't really mind you making jokes, but what are your opinions after that read up, other then SB's case being shit? Also, can you go into more detail about it? Are you
scumreading him for that case?

Mackc2, Ice Sage, jb: None of them have really posted anything significant I think. Ice Sage ignoring SB's interaction with Athena to continue RVS makes him look slightly worse then the
other two (same can be said about Evan, and I guess Eury did the same, but her later content makes me not really care about it), but in the end I just need more content from them to come to any meaningful conclusion.

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Sorry IRL shit popped up I'll be back in 12~18 hours. Again sorry.

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20 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

Urgh, I wrote all of that on notepad before copy pasting, so apologies for the layout being bad here and there.

Use notepad++ imo, it has this great taskbar with buttons I don't understand.

 

Reads are good, I agree with basically all of them, except I feel less strongly about SB and Refa than you do. Bit consensus-ish, but I can't really fault you for that if my reads are the same and I think the concensus is right.

(Leaning town on you FTR)

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44 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

Athena: As I said, scum!Athena generally plays very calculative and tries to stay out of the spotlight, which doesn't mash well with his rvs interaction with me. His playstyle after that
fits his MO quite well though, which is making me doubt that read a bit.

You sure about that last part? I agree my tone is similar, but I don't think my play here looks like either my vote-park on an inactive in EO3 or my Satsuma 1v1 in IDNSFMM5.

Of course, this is all WIFOM and you shouldn't be townreading me just for swapping playstyles, I'm just saying your reasoning is incorrect.

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2 hours ago, Randa said:

So if scum has, as you yourself say, no reason to be afraid in RVS then why would Athena being nervous be or non-comital be scummy. You can say that it was RVS, but you continue to keep the option of a scum!Athena read open for a while. Like I don't see why you say scum has no reason to do something when you were using it as your reason to vote Athena. 

Scum aren't worried about people shitposting in RVS but actual suspicions around that time can still spook them. There's a difference imo. Dropping my Athena suspicion entirely is silly too when I had no reason to change my opinion (at the time).

I still don't think i really got an answer to why they ignored KTS as a suspicion before. Yeah Shinori was actively posting, which means he had a more clear thought process than KTS did at the time, which is why I don't like that you ignored it. I don't even agree with the KTS vote itself because I think his reads have been pretty well laid out since the big post and what he's been doing makes sense with that in mind. The vote feels like picking on some generic *bad things* without looking into the context around it.

Bart's vote was fine, but I'm feeling kind of iffy about his listpost. i get that some reads are going to be stronger than others, but it feels like some have really shaky reasoning so I dunno if he's just trying to fill out the post or not to try and look good. 

@Bartozio What do you mean by Eury would abuse being busy irl more as scum? How do you think scum!Eury would do this and why is it different to town!Eury? It feels like a kind of arbitrary read to me as it is. Also what do you mean about Refa not sharing reads again? It's late so its possible that I missed this but I don't really get what you mean at all.

I don't like Evan because that catchup is super weak. If all he has to vote me is a post from like, page 4 or something then I don't really know what he spent the rest of his reading time doing. It reads like struggling to fake reads to me (it's not like I haven't been posting so why haven't they shown that anything else I've done has bothered them?) but idk if I'm just biased because I don't think his vote is good. @Killthestory Is this normal for Evan earlygame?

Randa > Bart > Evan

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evan's catchup was wolfy as fuck if that answers your question. i'm more looking at him antagonizing via (which i don't approve of) because that's his wolf range, too.

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I read pages 7-9 but I forgot most of it almost immediately. Is this normal?

SB, Refa's wording gave me the impression he was trying to intimidate them into voting with you and him. The case was based on a couple of ED1 posts, not enough that it needed to be commented on.

Refa has less oomph in his latest posts than I am used to. I don't know if he still hasn't recovered from the 200-page game or what?

Randa's defences were pretty awful, agree with Shinori, but his Kill vote isn't a bad point.
Kill, iirc you said that Ice/Eury were buddies, what was the basis for this again?

Bartozio, you bring up a similar point regarding Kill's opinion on Eury, what do you make of Randa's vote?

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i didn't say they were buddies. i scumread them both, so i put them on a team. that wasn't based on associations but individual play.

i switched my read because i liked the response i got? early game you're supposed to pressure people that ping you. i was pinged by eurykins. they responded, i liked their response. not a hard thought process to follow, i just don't like spelling things out for people.

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Fair enough.

When you make a post detailing why you don’t like Eury, finish it with “yet...” then change your vote, and say afterwards you liked their response, your thought process is actually hard to follow IMO.

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13 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

Fair enough.

When you make a post detailing why you don’t like Eury, finish it with “yet...” then change your vote, and say afterwards you liked their response, your thought process is actually hard to follow IMO.

i guess, but i'd hope people would at least figure out there was out of thread progression rather than i'm a wolf hopping off a potential wagon for towncred reasons.

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22 hours ago, Eurykins said:

Refa ez sheeping of SB's case is null, since Refa seems to excel at sheeping cases in general.

Knife through my heart.  :(  I asked your opinions because you all just ignored the only case in the game and made RVS posts lol, which read as you deliberately ignoring content to me.

@Shinori How was SB's initial push on Athena opportunistic when Athena had 0 votes...I feel like you're framing SB's vote having weak reasoning (IDC, it was the first case) as scummy for questionable reasons.  BTW, I felt that Athena egging Bartozio on (creating more white noise) and his Randa vote felt like he didn't really care about where his vote went.  I can see town playing like that, but I already explained why I sheeped it anyways.  Your defense here bothers me because your priorities were unclear and I don't get why you voted me if you were going to vote Randa later on (based on his posts before your vote on me).  Also voted Town!Me over Randa despite having a better case on Randa hmmm.  Chainsaw defense is 1) only telling if Randa flips scum (which would imply you either know Randa is scum, or have a stronger scumread on his slot which...doesn't explain your voteswitch) 2) I clearly hadn't been reading the thread when I made that post (only skimming) which is why my reasons were just gut.  What are your thoughts on SB, you dropped that read.

@Randa Your first response to me is bad, because you're saying "we need to wait for reactions" without actually like...making any yourself.  No, voting SB does not count as a reaction lol.  Also you're spending more time explaining yourself than scumhunting.  I know that's inevitable when you're the biggest wagon, but I'm talking even before then.  Good point here on Shinori's cases not lining up with his votes, though.  Also him unvoting me so quickly is ???.  Scum!Me isn't going to get pressured if Shinori removes his votes so easily lol.  People voting Randa need to read this post, it's tonally town which is making me doubt my read. Also dude, I explained two people on your wagon I had a gut scum read on.  This goes for @Bartozio as well.

@SB. My reaction test didn't get a read on you.  I just noticed that the town wincon wasn't listed in the opening post and wanted to see if scum knew it or not; it'd be telling if you took a long time replying (I conspicuously picked a time when Marth wasn't on Discord =)).  I picked you because GO BIG OR GO HOME KIDS.  Your Randa vote seems weak to me because you're just calling him out on not doing enough and missing something.  Agree with Kill's wall here in that most of SB's content isn't scummy (people scumreading his RVS post are crazy, his questions are fine) but his actual cases feel lackluster to me.  I like his explanation here though; it's not enough to alleviate my issues with the slot, but I can get where he's coming from WRT difficulty forming reads.  BTW, why did you defend me?  I don't think I was under major suspicion at the time unless I massively misread the gamestate.

@athena_57 Nothing I've done this game so far is something I definitely wouldn't do as scum.  Actually gotta analyze my posts, sorry bruh.  Why are you getting good town vibes from Baldrick?

@Bartozio You're townreading two of my scumreads, why are SB and Shinori not scum?  Nothing they've done is something I can't see them doing as scum.

Baldrick's vote on Randa is fine, I just didn't get where he was coming from until I actually read Randa's posts lol.

Evan's posting style makes me want to vote him.  Nothing personnel, kid.

Shinori/SB/Randa interactions are weirding me out.  They're all pushing each other but it doesn't feel telling at all, like there's not much weight behind these pushes.  Shinori > Randa > SB.  SB's content is...I don't know how to put it, distant?  But it's better than Randa, whose content is filler episode/10 (his only real substantive content is his Shinori read...).  Randa is better than Shinori because he has moments where he seems genuine to me.  SB and Randa are closer than Shinori because my doubts on my scum reads on both of them are based on tone.

##Unvote

##Vote: Shinori

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Honestly, I found it hard to comment on Randa's content because a lot of it read like filler and his non Shinori pushes (Kill, SB) seemed lackluster to me, so I didn't really have much to say about them.

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Also @Randa Kill's Ice vote is only an issue if he uses it as an excuse to not push other players, which he hasn't done.

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Leaving in about 10 minutes, just fyi

15 minutes ago, Refa said:

@Shinori Your defense here bothers me because your priorities were unclear and I don't get why you voted me if you were going to vote Randa later on (based on his posts before your vote on me).  Also voted Town!Me over Randa despite having a better case on Randa hmmm.

I believe his he his case on you, then his case on Randa developed later through interaction with him. If I'm wrong, can you timeline it for me?

15 minutes ago, Refa said:

People voting Randa need to read this post, it's tonally town which is making me doubt my read.

It's alright, but I think other posts in his defence have been worse. I'd rather him tell me who is mafia than telling me why he's town, if that makes any sense.

15 minutes ago, Refa said:

SB's content is...I don't know how to put it, distant?

Example of a post that made you feel that way? He's kind of been slipping under my radar.

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3 minutes ago, Refa said:

Knife through my heart.  :(  I asked your opinions because you all just ignored the only case in the game and made RVS posts lol, which read as you deliberately ignoring content to me.

@Shinori How was SB's initial push on Athena opportunistic when Athena had 0 votes...I feel like you're framing SB's vote having weak reasoning (IDC, it was the first case) as scummy for questionable reasons.  BTW, I felt that Athena egging Bartozio on (creating more white noise) and his Randa vote felt like he didn't really care about where his vote went.  I can see town playing like that, but I already explained why I sheeped it anyways.  Your defense here bothers me because your priorities were unclear and I don't get why you voted me if you were going to vote Randa later on (based on his posts before your vote on me).  Also voted Town!Me over Randa despite having a better case on Randa hmmm.  Chainsaw defense is 1) only telling if Randa flips scum (which would imply you either know Randa is scum, or have a stronger scumread on his slot which...doesn't explain your voteswitch) 2) I clearly hadn't been reading the thread when I made that post (only skimming) which is why my reasons were just gut.  What are your thoughts on SB, you dropped that read.

Shinori/SB/Randa interactions are weirding me out.  They're all pushing each other but it doesn't feel telling at all, like there's not much weight behind these pushes.  Shinori > Randa > SB.  SB's content is...I don't know how to put it, distant?  But it's better than Randa, whose content is filler episode/10 (his only real substantive content is his Shinori read...).  Randa is better than Shinori because he has moments where he seems genuine to me.  SB and Randa are closer than Shinori because my doubts on my scum reads on both of them are based on tone.

##Unvote

##Vote: Shinori

Let's start fromt he top:

SB's reasoning was fairly weak and maybe oppurtunistic was the wrong word but I felt he was trying to poke at someone who's cracked many a times before from being under pressure in a bad way.  I also felt that SB's initial push was bad because he also didn't even bother responding to Athena's questions that were focused back at him.  Considering it was still fairly RVS at the time some people may not fully choose to care where there vote is and I don't really take away points from someone because of that in the first 2 pages of the game or so.

Your reasoning for sheeping it was not explained well.  You stated:

Quote

I'm not busy or anything, I've just been pretty demotivated.  Posting is hard.  Someone (Eury) asked me if I sheeped SB to pressure Randa, and that's half true.  It was for pressure, but I felt like SB's case was valid even if I didn't feel strongly about it myself.

This didn't even answer my questions I asked you from quite a while ago on page 4:

Quote

Why is this reasoning for you to sheep it? You said it felt like white noise to you and SB gave you that following response.  Why is that enough to make you sheep?  I mean yeah it's RVS but that doesn't mean you HAVE to sheep it.  Sheeping it implies you feel it has credibility so what about SB's 1-2 lines makes it credible to you?

So once again, what about SB's case was valid?  Everything transpiring at that time seemed to make me believe you felt it wasn't that strong then kind of blindly sheeped it.  And your defense is just "It was for pressure but SB's case was valid" without explaining how or why.  I don't see at all SB's case that projects his own self meta from a separate game is a strong enough case to be sheeped.

You don't get why I voted you if I was going to vote Randa later?  I voted you on page 4 and at that time I wasn't fully planning to vote Randa at the time.  I then voted Randa after he made more posts and I had a better read on him. Then swapped back towards you again on page 8.  Choosing what is a better case is your own opinion and it's a thing that's been happening in a few games recently.  You're also biased towards yourself obviously.  I think my case on you is just fine if not potentially stronger than my case on Randa especially seeing clear scum intent behind your posts.

To be specific yes a chainsaw defense is only used best once Randa flips, however I still see it as bad.  IF Randa flips town your potentially getting townie points by chainsaw defending someone you know might flip town.  Chainsaw defending can be down by scum defending both scum and town players, I've done the scum defending a town player plenty of times before.  I don't think SB is scum at the moment is my thoughts on SB that I'm willing to divulge.  Just because you weren't actively reading everything doesn't mean you get a free pass/excuse for having a terribly scummy post.

I don't understand this whole Shinori/SB/Randa interaction thing you have drawn up in your mind.  I haven't pushed SB outside of pushing him for his bad Athena vote(in my eyes).

So why are you voting me?  This is actually a pretty blatant OMGUS without strong reasoning behind it.  You didnt' even explain it well in the last paragraph.  Bolded for proof.  You only seem to imply that you feel I'm not genuine, so I guess you feel that my posts are forced but you don't really put what isn't genuine or is genuine for evidence for people to even look at.

What about my posts aren't genuine? Where is scum intent behind my posts? Do you feel my vote from randa to you is scum intent?  If so why?  Does that mean you feel I'm buddies with Randa and I instantly chose to attack him.  This vote is awful and extremely OMGUS because I feel you didn't even make a case on me you just IMPLIED that you felt I wasn't genuine.  Notice the word implied, because you didn't even actually state why you're voting me.

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Tl;dr: No actual stated reasoning for voting me.  Still hasn't answered my questions from previously.  Not noticing when I voted himself/Randa and yet trying to expand a case on that. What seems/feels like a blatant OMGUS.

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I'm reading the thread while high. if cuphead mafia is any indication of anything, I can only wallpost when not sober.

before I read through the thread I was gutreading Eury scum. the early Eury post here pings me as scum!Eury. I would have figured Eury might have a read by now. I dunno. Bad Vibes

here are notes I have so far taken.

- still not buying Athena scum. he's being less careful and his RVS response to Randa read me towny. I have mentioned this before. I don't think people are suspecting Athena anymore really but there's that for you.

- however I'm not reading SB scum off of the Athena case. nothing about it really jerked me in that direction.

- (refa stuff) while I was skimming earlier I made a mental note to check Refa out and his post bugging the people still RVS voting to check out the SB case here I could see as scum making an attempt at looking like a driving force out of RVS to look town. at that time the only thing to comment on was the SB case on Athena and there wasn't anything else so the comment reads dissonant. sometimes it takes more to get people out of the joking phase of the game and I feel like Refa would know that. I don't know if this makes sense. it reads forced and alarming enough to catch my attention. I don't know how else to read how easy it was to get Refa to sheep the Athena case since we were just coming out of RVS. this post by randa echoes my sentiment a little in that Refa posts like more was happening at the time SB made his Athena case which is Weird. still vacillating on this though.

- Baldrick's early vote of SB is weird. I know it was still early but the vote didn't read like it was motivated by the belief that SB was scum. I feel like he could have questioned SB without the vote. I can't tell if it was supposed to be a pressure vote or a vote made for the sake of voting.

- I wasn't expecting anyone to read my post like I was making it out of self-preservation! maybe it sounded disproportionately urgent but I didn't mean it to read at all the way it did. there is a reason I made the post that is not game related and also dumb and I didn't feel like explaining it at the time. my response @ Evan was dumb and THAT itself may have read like self-preservation but in my defense I was overreacting and also I was tired.

##Vote: Evan sheep this imo. Evan is not playing at all like last game. this is unnecessary. YES it was a potshot idc what you think of it shinori but the potshot at me was unnecessary also. I asked him if he thought my post was scummy because I wanted to know if he was making his comment out of an effort to scumhunt and the answer I got was essentially no. he's not explaining anything he posts which is another huge difference from last game. he didn't even explain his SB scumread beyond something that's stale and was 7 pages ago. if Kill thinks he's playing to his scum meta on top of that then I buy this.

I'm not all the way caught up but I can't read Eury posts while high that's impossible.

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##vote Evan

via help me continue playing i'm already suffering from a lack of wim, and it's either from hunger, sleep deprivation, or i just suck. plsss let's talk 

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Just now, Killthestory said:

##vote Evan

via help me continue playing i'm already suffering from a lack of wim, and it's either from hunger, sleep deprivation, or i just suck. plsss let's talk 

first get something to eat. second what do you think of Refa and what do you think of Randa? I need some help reading them and especially Randa cuz I'm not as familiar w them. nothing about them stuck out to me as much as everyone else.

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btw kill why didn't you vote Evan until now? it read to me like you were scumreading him before I got back

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1 minute ago, Vi-astra said:

btw kill why didn't you vote Evan until now? it read to me like you were scumreading him before I got back

i'm also scumreading ice sage and would like to get him into the game to give me ample content to either kill him or save him on. a wagon on evan also provides me with info regarding his alignment, so i have no problem hopping on.

Just now, Vi-astra said:

first get something to eat. second what do you think of Refa and what do you think of Randa? I need some help reading them and especially Randa cuz I'm not as familiar w them. nothing about them stuck out to me as much as everyone else.

i think refa's inactivity and lack of true attention to the game was originally scummy until i realized it's probably not indicative of any alignments. he's the type of guy to likely be good as any alignment, so i'm just reading him based on the content he's provided. as far as that goes, he's going below surface level to create reads and make content in an orderly fashion that i saw the last game we played together. i think he's an okay town, but my reasoning can be construed as flimsy and likely he should still be focused on to grab the real spice from his thoughts.

randa, i think i have to look over. their vote on me made me feel... less enthusiastic about reading them as not caring about their image than before. their arguments haven't been very substantial or altogether providing anything new in terms of the gamestate, and they even admitted their push on shinori after the vote was mere coincidence that it happened to be a crossvote. 

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see like

a huge reason people are reading Refa is that he seems disengaged+the sheep on SB's case, but the latter I'm ?_? because there wasn't anything else at the time so it's harder to gauge scum intent off of that, but it IS true his post before his vote in which he calls the back-and-forth "white noise" which seemed like he was very disinterested in the case IMMEDIATELY followed by a vote after SB's response is as I described before dissonant enough that it's kinda scummy

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1 minute ago, Vi-astra said:

see like

a huge reason people are reading Refa is that he seems disengaged+the sheep on SB's case, but the latter I'm ?_? because there wasn't anything else at the time so it's harder to gauge scum intent off of that, but it IS true his post before his vote in which he calls the back-and-forth "white noise" which seemed like he was very disinterested in the case IMMEDIATELY followed by a vote after SB's response is as I described before dissonant enough that it's kinda scummy

i think out of progression thoughts are something that people don't really pay too much attention to because we assume all of the thoughts must be posted in the game thread. i don't really have a problem with others coming to conclusions that some of us can't see yet, probably because i do it a lot, so i wouldn't really add that as a mark against him especially since on an initial read it didn't stick out to me. the disengaged part i don't think i can really explain except that it's probably just not something worth looking into. i see him as a strong player, equal to some of the players in this game, and being disinterested is not a product of being mafia nor town. i'd like to talk with him about his process, but most of it seems pretty pure.

anyone else you had in mind to talk about? 

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I was gonna ask what you thought of Eury but I also haven't read her posts beyond the one that I said pinged me off because I'm definitely too Weed ADHD to read them properly but I guess I could give it a shot now.

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