Twitch Plays Pokemon Mafia NOC(15p)(GAME OVER TOWN WINS)

[Killthestory]

1 minute ago, Vi-astra said:

I was gonna ask what you thought of Eury but I also haven't read her posts beyond the one that I said pinged me off because I'm definitely too Weed ADHD to read them properly but I guess I could give it a shot now.

if you're interested in figuring out her alignment, i recommend just browsing through the exchange we had and talking to me about it. i've got some thoughts on it, but nothing is really finalized like i may have claimed immediately afterwards. 

[Shinori]

If it was just a sheep I wouldn't have cared so much about Refa's sheep early on.

It's the fact of what he stated just before the sheep.

It kind of implied that he didn't agree with a reason to vote there, but then did it anyway.

For what it matters I also agree that Evan's post during RVS was bad but I also don't think it was a pot shot and there ain't really any reason for you to act aggressively towards me for stating it.  I read that post WRT you as more of a joke than anything to which you blew up about extremely weirdly.

[Baldrick]

19 minutes ago, Vi-astra said:

- Baldrick's early vote of SB is weird. I know it was still early but the vote didn't read like it was motivated by the belief that SB was scum. I feel like he could have questioned SB without the vote. I can't tell if it was supposed to be a pressure vote or a vote made for the sake of voting.

I didn't see any reason not to vote.

[Percivalé]

5 minutes ago, Shinori said:

For what it matters I also agree that Evan's post during RVS was bad but I also don't think it was a pot shot and there ain't really any reason for you to act aggressively towards me for stating it.  I read that post WRT you as more of a joke than anything to which you blew up about extremely weirdly.

shinori i'm sorry if i'm reading aggressive towards you as it wasn't my intention. i was being facetious in my bigger post. Ii think people are reading my facetiousness as aggressiveness or AtE and it isn't my intention. i just disagree with you and that's fine. I did overreact to his comment but it doesn't change that his comment was unnecessary.

I also do disagree with KTS in that I still think Refa's dissonant thought process WRT his sheep is scummy but I appreciate the dialogue that I'm having with him

[Percivalé]

plus like you say you read it as a joke but if he's gonna still post jokes&japes after providing barely any content far after we're out of RVS that's still antitown and I don't like it

[Shinori]

What do you think WRT me v Refa?

I actually want to hear a lot of people's thoughts on me v Refa.

[Percivalé]

okay eury's first response to KTS reads town so that settles my earlier read on her. still going through her posts, though.

shinori I'll get back to you on you vs. Refa, I'm going to sleep probably after the Eury read

[Killthestory]

4 minutes ago, Vi-astra said:

okay eury's first response to KTS reads town so that settles my earlier read on her. still going through her posts, though.

shinori I'll get back to you on you vs. Refa, I'm going to sleep probably after the Eury read

this is pretty much what i was thinking.

[Baldrick]

15 minutes ago, Shinori said:

What do you think WRT me v Refa?

I actually want to hear a lot of people's thoughts on me v Refa.

I questioned his point about you and unclear priorities, since that wasn't my impression.

For his point about Shinori/Randa/SB interactions, he's implied those three have a similar tone in their pushes, and SB has been distant. I've asked for an example to try and understand what he means.

I don't think Refa's scummy, but I don't know what's he thinking.

[Athena_57]

7 hours ago, Refa said:

 

@Shinori How was SB's initial push on Athena opportunistic when Athena had 0 votes...I feel like you're framing SB's vote having weak reasoning (IDC, it was the first case) as scummy for questionable reasons.  BTW, I felt that Athena egging Bartozio on (creating more white noise) and his Randa vote felt like he didn't really care about where his vote went.  I can see town playing like that, but I already explained why I sheeped it anyways.  Your defense here bothers me because your priorities were unclear and I don't get why you voted me if you were going to vote Randa later on (based on his posts before your vote on me).  Also voted Town!Me over Randa despite having a better case on Randa hmmm.  Chainsaw defense is 1) only telling if Randa flips scum (which would imply you either know Randa is scum, or have a stronger scumread on his slot which...doesn't explain your voteswitch) 2) I clearly hadn't been reading the thread when I made that post (only skimming) which is why my reasons were just gut.  What are your thoughts on SB, you dropped that read.

<Stuff on other people>

Shinori/SB/Randa interactions are weirding me out.  They're all pushing each other but it doesn't feel telling at all, like there's not much weight behind these pushes.  Shinori > Randa > SB.  SB's content is...I don't know how to put it, distant?  But it's better than Randa, whose content is filler episode/10 (his only real substantive content is his Shinori read...).  Randa is better than Shinori because he has moments where he seems genuine to me.  SB and Randa are closer than Shinori because my doubts on my scum reads on both of them are based on tone.

##Unvote

##Vote: Shinori

Agree with Shinori there is no real reasoning for Refa to vote Shinori here. Originally missed that because of the block of text next to Shinori's name, but that's all just responses...

If the only redeeming feature for Randa is that one post, I don't see why you have Shinori over them. Most of Randa's stuff has been mediocre/bad imo, one decent post isn't going to fix that.

Via's point on Refa sheeping and trying to appear productive early on is decent in my eyes, though I could also see town!him doing that.

Currently scumreading Refa.

Quote

@athena_57 Nothing I've done this game so far is something I definitely wouldn't do as scum.  Actually gotta analyze my posts, sorry bruh.  Why are you getting good town vibes from Baldrick?

 

Damn, effort. Here are some examples of early game Baldrick I  liked:

On ‎12‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 2:01 AM, Baldrick said:

Randa, did you have that reaction before or after you read Eury's post?

Shinori, how does Athena's read of Bart affect your read of Athena?

On ‎12‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 3:35 AM, Baldrick said:

I still don't see how Athena couldn't be nervous as town, but I don't get the impression you're trying to make him panic.

##unvote

##vote: Randa

In that case, I don't like how you voted him for pressure, and not giving an opinion on the votes that came after you.

I don't believe you are trying to get more activity, just trying to give that impression. I don't see any effort to improve your reads.

The first of these is one amongst multiple where to me he felt like he was a driving force behind people developing their arguments early on. It felt constructive.
The second post, I like his response to SB and the Randa vote is good as well.

 

I'm liking the Via-Kill exchange on page 10, both look good because of it.

[Athena_57]

Also, I'd appreciate some votals @Magnificence Incarnate

[Baldrick]

You can have mine.
 

Randa:   Athena, Baldrick, SB, Eurykins, Bartozio
Refa:    Rapier, Shinori
Evan:    Via, Kill
Shinori: Refa
SB:      Evan
Kill:    Randa
Rapier:  JB

Followers of the False Prophet:    Ice, Mack

 

[Bluedoom]

Votals

randa(5):Athena, eurykins,  baldrick,  sb,bartozio

refa(2):shinori, rapier

shinori(1):refa

Sb(1):evanmanman

rapier (1):jb

evanmanman(2):vi Astra, killthestory

killthestory(1): Randa 

 

not voting : ice sage, Mackc2

deadline in 30 hours 30 minutes. 

Edited May 13, 2018 by Magnificence Incarnate

[SB.]

@Refa It's not totally about Randa just missing things, it's also that most of his posts are defensive in nature and it feels like he's backpedalling a bit. Why did he need to be prompted by me in order to vote for KTS when the reasons to do it were already there? Also I defended you because most posts I read were Randa/Refa scumreads (even if more votes were on Randa) and I kind of wanted the game to expand a little.

I don't really get your Shinori vote. I understand that you disagree with a lot of what he's been posting but it feels like it's mostly because you think he's misinterpreting you? Please explain.

@Baldrick, what are your strongest reads right now? I can't remember where you stand on reads this game without actively looking for them.

I don't feel like scum is posting because I got almost nothing from overnight posts. I'd be willing to vote Evan at deadline but still probably not Refa yet. I still think his last post was too blatantly bad to come from scum unless he's like... scum with Randa and some other hard inactive player but it feels too specific. 

[Shinori]

2 hours ago, SB. said:

I don't feel like scum is posting because I got almost nothing from overnight posts. I'd be willing to vote Evan at deadline but still probably not Refa yet. I still think his last post was too blatantly bad to come from scum unless he's like... scum with Randa and some other hard inactive player but it feels too specific. 

An argument scum has used to defend buddies multiple times in the past few games was literally this argument.  I don't think we should be brushing off someone for being scummy because they are just 'too obviously scummy'.

[Refa]

11 hours ago, Baldrick said:

Leaving in about 10 minutes, just fyi

I believe his he his case on you, then his case on Randa developed later through interaction with him. If I'm wrong, can you timeline it for me?

 

On 5/11/2018 at 6:28 PM, Shinori said:

All in all I don't see your vote as oppurtunistic as previously stated, I still don't quite agree with your reasoning/vote on him though.

##Unvote:

##vote: Refa

Shinori votes me after feeling better about SB.

On 5/11/2018 at 7:08 PM, Randa said:

The first part is the part I'm confused about, though I'm convinced it's just cause I'm an idiot. I just don't understand what your trying to say. Like I think you're saying that idiocy during RVS akin to my usual nonsense is non-indicative of alignment, but I don't know.

I think the problem I have with this is more of a meta thing. I don't think I've seen anybody focus on taking advantage of a new player's relative inexperience to force the player to misplay. It honestly doesn't seem like something that anybody on this site would do, a couple I play with IRL sure wouldn't surprise me in the slightlest, but on this site I just don't think I've ever gotten the impression somebody would do that.

I mean did say I was going to eat and that in and of itself takes a while tbh.

No.

anyways I'm done with my pizza so I'm gone through the thread and read a bit.

Randa makes this one post.

On 5/11/2018 at 8:00 PM, Shinori said:

I wouldn't classify Athena as 'new' So that's not really a valid argument @Randa

@KillthestoryDo you?

##Unvote:

##Vote: Randa

He's throwing a lot of dirt around but doing actually nothing.  Any reason why your vote is still on SB?  I'm assuming you haven't read my most recent post, either that or you ignored my questions.

Do you find me scummy? Do you find SB scummy?  You mentioned before you had a gut read on me whereas your vote on SB was literally just for activity's sake which I find bad.  You are also throwing a lot of dirt on me and yet still haven't placed a vote on me.

Shinori votes him in his next post.  What about Randa's next post was so telling that Shinori had to immediately switch his vote, Baldrick?  Where does he throw dirt on anyone in that post?  That's why it bothers me.

11 hours ago, Baldrick said:

It's alright, but I think other posts in his defence have been worse. I'd rather him tell me who is mafia than telling me why he's town, if that makes any sense.

Example of a post that made you feel that way? He's kind of been slipping under my radar.

Yeah, I'm still bothered by him, but I don't feel confident in a lynch there, especially when Shinori/SB have so much more obvious scum intent to me.

19 hours ago, SB. said:

Tbh I just think it's too blatantly bad for scum!Refa to post. I think he would care more and force himself to do more if he was already under fire. I get your point about him sheeping me being kind of weird, but I could see it a lazy town!Refa thinking that pressuring the Athena slot was the best thing to do at the time. The chainsaw feels like wifom to me because I can see him doing it regardless of his alignment or Randa's but just leaving that post as it is (he typoed Randa in for Athena too lol) implies that he really doesn't care.

Maybe he could be demotivated scum with Randa and some other inactive I guess? But then I'd still lynch Randa first.

This.  It doesn't read as town defending town to me.  SB is saying that he personally doesn't agree with the cases on me, but isn't using it to get any scumreads or to defend me in any meaningful capacity.

Getting to Shinori's thing next, but splitting this up is more readable.

[Ice Sage]

I'm liking KTS's and Via's take on this. Reading back through I found Evan's posts going against Via pretty antagonizing. it felt like it came out of nowhere. I don't really have that much reads, but i do think KTS, Via, and Eury are town. Eury's posts read town to me imo. I don't blame KTS for voting me at all. I have been inactive.

I also don't think Refa is scum either. Him being demotivated i feel the same. feeling down myself recently so I find it hard to motivate myself to get things down too. It looks like he is trying to find reads as well.

Out of everything i feel like evan might be scum. it was pretty weird and looked wolfy. I don't see any explaination from him.

##vote Evan

[Athena_57]

5 minutes ago, Ice Sage said:

I'm liking KTS's and Via's take on this. Reading back through I found Evan's posts going against Via pretty antagonizing. it felt like it came out of nowhere. I don't really have that much reads, but i do think KTS, Via, and Eury are town. Eury's posts read town to me imo. I don't blame KTS for voting me at all. I have been inactive.

I also don't think Refa is scum either. Him being demotivated i feel the same. feeling down myself recently so I find it hard to motivate myself to get things down too. It looks like he is trying to find reads as well.

Out of everything i feel like evan might be scum. it was pretty weird and looked wolfy. I don't see any explaination from him.

##vote Evan

Are you done catching up? Any scum reads on actives? I dislike you coming back and just sheeping the case on a fellow inactive. "I don't see an explanation"--He has explained the antagonizing a bit and hasn't been online since people started voting him.

##FOS: Ice Sage

[Shinori]

I wasn't planning to vote Randa but had him on a list to keep an eye on when I voted Refa.

Refa then just wasn't around and Randa made the above post which made me reread part of the last page again which ended up being a combination of things that made me swap to Randa at the point in time.

[Refa]

11 hours ago, Shinori said:

Let's start fromt he top:

SB's reasoning was fairly weak and maybe oppurtunistic was the wrong word but I felt he was trying to poke at someone who's cracked many a times before from being under pressure in a bad way.  I also felt that SB's initial push was bad because he also didn't even bother responding to Athena's questions that were focused back at him.  Considering it was still fairly RVS at the time some people may not fully choose to care where there vote is and I don't really take away points from someone because of that in the first 2 pages of the game or so.

Your reasoning for sheeping it was not explained well.  You stated:

This didn't even answer my questions I asked you from quite a while ago on page 4:

So once again, what about SB's case was valid?  Everything transpiring at that time seemed to make me believe you felt it wasn't that strong then kind of blindly sheeped it.  And your defense is just "It was for pressure but SB's case was valid" without explaining how or why.  I don't see at all SB's case that projects his own self meta from a separate game is a strong enough case to be sheeped.

You don't get why I voted you if I was going to vote Randa later?  I voted you on page 4 and at that time I wasn't fully planning to vote Randa at the time.  I then voted Randa after he made more posts and I had a better read on him. Then swapped back towards you again on page 8.  Choosing what is a better case is your own opinion and it's a thing that's been happening in a few games recently.  You're also biased towards yourself obviously.  I think my case on you is just fine if not potentially stronger than my case on Randa especially seeing clear scum intent behind your posts.

To be specific yes a chainsaw defense is only used best once Randa flips, however I still see it as bad.  IF Randa flips town your potentially getting townie points by chainsaw defending someone you know might flip town.  Chainsaw defending can be down by scum defending both scum and town players, I've done the scum defending a town player plenty of times before.  I don't think SB is scum at the moment is my thoughts on SB that I'm willing to divulge.  Just because you weren't actively reading everything doesn't mean you get a free pass/excuse for having a terribly scummy post.

I don't understand this whole Shinori/SB/Randa interaction thing you have drawn up in your mind.  I haven't pushed SB outside of pushing him for his bad Athena vote(in my eyes).

So why are you voting me?  This is actually a pretty blatant OMGUS without strong reasoning behind it.  You didnt' even explain it well in the last paragraph.  Bolded for proof.  You only seem to imply that you feel I'm not genuine, so I guess you feel that my posts are forced but you don't really put what isn't genuine or is genuine for evidence for people to even look at.

What about my posts aren't genuine? Where is scum intent behind my posts? Do you feel my vote from randa to you is scum intent?  If so why?  Does that mean you feel I'm buddies with Randa and I instantly chose to attack him.  This vote is awful and extremely OMGUS because I feel you didn't even make a case on me you just IMPLIED that you felt I wasn't genuine.  Notice the word implied, because you didn't even actually state why you're voting me.

Athena has never cracked under pressure in a bad way, because Athena has ALWAYS been scum.  This reasoning doesn't add up at all lol, you have absolutely no idea how Town!Athena plays.  I agree that SB should have responded to Athena's questions.

Dude, SB's case wasn't projecting his self meta, he was explaining how he did something generically scummy and how it applied to Athena as well.  I'm pretty sure I've explained this before, but I think it was good enough for an ED1 case and nothing was getting done.

You voted Randa after he made one extremely non telling post.  Then you built up your case on Randa (I have no issues here, but the initial voteswap from me to Randa bothers me) after I made one not very telling post (IMO).  My wording was unfair and I apologize (obviously people who vote me aren't scum), but your voting patterns is what I see as coming from scum.

You're saying why it could come from scum.  I'm saying it's NAI.  Obviously NAI content can come from scum, and you've failed to say why it's more likely to come from scum other than that it's a chainsaw defense.

From your end, you went from a scumread to ignoring all of SB's content, which seems weird to me.

I'm voting you because your votes have almost universally bothered me, and the way you swap between them doesn't read as natural to me.  Also using buzzwords to make my vote seem weaker is bad as well.

You swap cases without reasonable justification, you vote me over your biggest scumread for very questionable reasons (like you picked one minor point and were like YEAH REFA MAKES MORE SENSE AS SCUM OVER RANDA FOR THIS), etc.  Feels like last game to me.

[Refa]

Just now, Shinori said:

I wasn't planning to vote Randa but had him on a list to keep an eye on when I voted Refa.

Refa then just wasn't around and Randa made the above post which made me reread part of the last page again which ended up being a combination of things that made me swap to Randa at the point in time.

Eh, that's fine actually.  Dropping that point.

[Ice Sage]

4 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

Are you done catching up? Any scum reads on actives? I dislike you coming back and just sheeping the case on a fellow inactive. "I don't see an explanation"--He has explained the antagonizing a bit and hasn't been online since people started voting him.

##FOS: Ice Sage

Yeah finished up. Only scum reads i have is Evan. it stuck out to me. when it comes to others like Randa, Shinori, SB, and Bartozio i am not sure at the moment.

[Refa]

8 hours ago, Vi-astra said:

before I read through the thread I was gutreading Eury scum. the early Eury post here pings me as scum!Eury. I would have figured Eury might have a read by now. I dunno. Bad Vibes

- (refa stuff) while I was skimming earlier I made a mental note to check Refa out and his post bugging the people still RVS voting to check out the SB case here I could see as scum making an attempt at looking like a driving force out of RVS to look town. at that time the only thing to comment on was the SB case on Athena and there wasn't anything else so the comment reads dissonant. sometimes it takes more to get people out of the joking phase of the game and I feel like Refa would know that. I don't know if this makes sense. it reads forced and alarming enough to catch my attention. I don't know how else to read how easy it was to get Refa to sheep the Athena case since we were just coming out of RVS. this post by randa echoes my sentiment a little in that Refa posts like more was happening at the time SB made his Athena case which is Weird. still vacillating on this though.

- Baldrick's early vote of SB is weird. I know it was still early but the vote didn't read like it was motivated by the belief that SB was scum. I feel like he could have questioned SB without the vote. I can't tell if it was supposed to be a pressure vote or a vote made for the sake of voting.

- I wasn't expecting anyone to read my post like I was making it out of self-preservation! maybe it sounded disproportionately urgent but I didn't mean it to read at all the way it did. there is a reason I made the post that is not game related and also dumb and I didn't feel like explaining it at the time. my response @ Evan was dumb and THAT itself may have read like self-preservation but in my defense I was overreacting and also I was tired.

##Vote: Evan sheep this imo. Evan is not playing at all like last game. this is unnecessary. YES it was a potshot idc what you think of it shinori but the potshot at me was unnecessary also. I asked him if he thought my post was scummy because I wanted to know if he was making his comment out of an effort to scumhunt and the answer I got was essentially no. he's not explaining anything he posts which is another huge difference from last game. he didn't even explain his SB scumread beyond something that's stale and was 7 pages ago. if Kill thinks he's playing to his scum meta on top of that then I buy this.

I'm not all the way caught up but I can't read Eury posts while high that's impossible.

Wait, I thought Eury did have reads?  I'll have to go back and check, but I remember her being bothered by me anyways lol (no bias).

I don't really get your read on me.  How does this make me scum?  Yes, I know that it takes people more to get out of RVS, but I don't see how asking people to take a look at the one actual case in the game is unfair (maybe if I was scumreading them for it, but never did I say that, so...).

Baldrick could have questioned SB without the vote, but why does voting alongside it seem worse?  I see people do that all of the time in RVS.

I'd sheep the Evan read.

7 hours ago, Vi-astra said:

see like

a huge reason people are reading Refa is that he seems disengaged+the sheep on SB's case, but the latter I'm ?_? because there wasn't anything else at the time so it's harder to gauge scum intent off of that, but it IS true his post before his vote in which he calls the back-and-forth "white noise" which seemed like he was very disinterested in the case IMMEDIATELY followed by a vote after SB's response is as I described before dissonant enough that it's kinda scummy

I'm disengaged with this game in general.  Can't even get mad at people casing me even though I know they're on the wrong side of history.

I was disinterested in the case, but I sheeped it because after rereading, I thought SB's case was logically sound and wanted to pressure Randa.

[Shinori]

2 minutes ago, Refa said:

You're saying why it could come from scum.  I'm saying it's NAI.  Obviously NAI content can come from scum, and you've failed to say why it's more likely to come from scum other than that it's a chainsaw defense.

From your end, you went from a scumread to ignoring all of SB's content, which seems weird to me.

I'm voting you because your votes have almost universally bothered me, and the way you swap between them doesn't read as natural to me.  Also using buzzwords to make my vote seem weaker is bad as well.

You swap cases without reasonable justification, you vote me over your biggest scumread for very questionable reasons (like you picked one minor point and were like YEAH REFA MAKES MORE SENSE AS SCUM OVER RANDA FOR THIS), etc.  Feels like last game to me.

I'll get to some of the rest of this in a bit but:

1: I think my primary reason for saying that your chainsaw defense is scum-intent is because you still haven't read Randa.  You can't justify someone's attack/push on someone as bad when you haven't even read the slot.  That's literally what I did as scum in cuphead mafia if you remember the whole speal that happened day 2.  I'm not attempting to push my self meta out on you here either I'm just giving an example as to WHY that I am reading it as more scum-sided of a chainsaw defense than a townsided person who just dislikes the attackers.

2: My 'scumread' on sb as you put it is as much of a scum read that a scum read can be literally 2 pages since game start.  And I haven't ignored his other content, albeit I think he's been a little quiet since the beginning of the game but I haven't been heavily scum reading him.

3: This is the reasoning you didn't state previously though when you voted me which is why your initial vote looks awful.  Whether you feel me saying it looks like an OMGUS or not is bad doesn't change the fact that that's kind of what it seemed like in my eyes.

My swaps have been so far:

1: SB > Refa - still close to RVS phase and I wanted to get responses from Refa(Not sure if I Actually ever got those responses but that's so far ago in this game that it basically doesn't matter anymore.)

2: Refa - Randa - Refa wasn't around and after a small reread of the past 1 page I was feeling worse overall about Randa.

3: Randa - Refa - Randa's around and making content, he's still a scum read but this was my thought process at the time based on my thoughts QT as of the end of page 7.  These thoughts have changed since then but this is just here to provide you with some of my thought process behind why I swapped votes at the time.

Quote

Randa leaning scum but might be a disagreement or misunderstanding? Need to reread randa posts and interactions with myself/others and post better thoughts WRT him to solidify my read on him.

Also whether or not I am scum reading Randa doesn't change the fact that there would also be more than 1 scum in this game.

Haven't made any other swaps outside of that and realistically only the Randa - Refa swap is the only questionable one.  In my opinion I feel my first and second swaps were justified and not bad.

[Shinori]

27 minutes ago, Ice Sage said:

I'm liking KTS's and Via's take on this. Reading back through I found Evan's posts going against Via pretty antagonizing. it felt like it came out of nowhere. I don't really have that much reads, but i do think KTS, Via, and Eury are town. Eury's posts read town to me imo. I don't blame KTS for voting me at all. I have been inactive.

I also don't think Refa is scum either. Him being demotivated i feel the same. feeling down myself recently so I find it hard to motivate myself to get things down too. It looks like he is trying to find reads as well.

Out of everything i feel like evan might be scum. it was pretty weird and looked wolfy. I don't see any explaination from him.

##vote Evan

10 minutes ago, Ice Sage said:

Yeah finished up. Only scum reads i have is Evan. it stuck out to me. when it comes to others like Randa, Shinori, SB, and Bartozio i am not sure at the moment.

I've stated this before and I'll state this again, as obviously Ice doesn't know this but I want to bring this forward so other people can see this.

I find a lack of scum reads and a lot of town reads from player slots to be a scum tell.

So until further notice Ice sage can go on the lynch list.