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Magnificence Incarnate

Twitch Plays Pokemon Mafia NOC(15p)(GAME OVER TOWN WINS)

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Honestly Refa might be a better lynch so far > Randa.

I dislike Randa and I feel like he's faking content and being hypocritical and hasn't done much but comment on me and defend himself but Refa's posts have a much stronger scum vibe behind them.

Sheeping SB on a baseless case during RVS is scum-intent of just letting someone else do the work as you act like you're doing something.

Chainsaw defense is scum intent regardless of Randa's alignment in this situation.

##Unvote:

##Vote: Refa

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1 minute ago, Eurykins said:

Fuck new post loading me to a new page. Just lost my post, gg me.

SAME.

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Copy everything you are typing periodically.  That way even if you lose the post with quotes you still have the text and can just paste the text even if you don't have the quotes.

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ROUND 2

21 minutes ago, Killthestory said:

how? my intentions and thought process are already pretty out there in the game thread right now. i'm not trying anything especially crazy this game, so this is another one of those sort of weird comments that have been irking me all game regarding your alignment. 

I think you're misinterpreting here. Your big wallpost came after the Randapost I quoted (where he brought up your "ice sage eurykins and randa +however many wolves would be left is what i'm sitting at" thing) and it didn't feel like you had much of a presence before then. It feels weird that Randa would attack Shinori who had more in depth pushes and a priority was easy to follow while giving you a pass. It feels like really weird tunnel vision to me.

I assume you're asking about my full thought process with Randa?

At first I thought he was town because it felt like his early posting prior to the Shinori suspicion was genuine and was like "nah I think this is actually town v town" but I didn't have a strong suspicion at the time so I read Randa's case on Shinori more closely and thought that it looked kind of forced. I looked back at his earlier posts after because it was kind of at odds with my townread and then realised that they were mostly justifying his RVS post which could be a genuine defense as scum if he didn't mean anything for it. Imo it's easy to over defend yourself as scum if you have conviction that the other guy is right for the wrong reasons and that's the kind of vibes I'm getting from Randa now. I also think the way he treats you and Shinori is really inconsistent which is confusing.

Refa's recent post was good but I don't think he makes it as scum unless his buddies are also very disconnected from the game? I think his demotivation is going to be genuine regardless of alignment but I think if he had people talking to him he'd produce something more substantial while he's already under some suspicion. I think as town he'll get his groove back eventually so I wouldn't worry about him yet.

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2 hours ago, Killthestory said:

not strong yet. as for ice sage, his entrance was the textbook entrance for a scum player trying to lay low with a simple jokepost before moving into slanking. that read is sorta strong simply because of the entrance and the absolutely wolfy nature of it. 

You comment on ice sage but what about Evanmanman as of page 4.  Specifically his response to Refa.

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Tbh I just think it's too blatantly bad for scum!Refa to post. I think he would care more and force himself to do more if he was already under fire. I get your point about him sheeping me being kind of weird, but I could see it a lazy town!Refa thinking that pressuring the Athena slot was the best thing to do at the time. The chainsaw feels like wifom to me because I can see him doing it regardless of his alignment or Randa's but just leaving that post as it is (he typoed Randa in for Athena too lol) implies that he really doesn't care.

Maybe he could be demotivated scum with Randa and some other inactive I guess? But then I'd still lynch Randa first.

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1 minute ago, SB. said:

Tbh I just think it's too blatantly bad for scum!Refa to post. I think he would care more and force himself to do more if he was already under fire. I get your point about him sheeping me being kind of weird, but I could see it a lazy town!Refa thinking that pressuring the Athena slot was the best thing to do at the time. The chainsaw feels like wifom to me because I can see him doing it regardless of his alignment or Randa's but just leaving that post as it is (he typoed Randa in for Athena too lol) implies that he really doesn't care.

Maybe he could be demotivated scum with Randa and some other inactive I guess? But then I'd still lynch Randa first.

The bolded part doesn't make sense if he is genuinely demotivated.

Demotivated Scum!Refa probably wouldn't care that his post was/is bad.  I agree the demotivated part should be NAI when possible as anyone can be demotivated.

Also this directly opposes what you just stated.  You said the post was good and here you deliberately say it's just so bad that you don't see scum him doing it.

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TL;DRing the big post I lost. Fuck everything about the SF forums posting shit.

This Refa post feels bad. I don't like the line of logic of him not really supporting but still sheeping the case/voting. Feels like an ez cop out means of distancing himself from committing to a case/vote. Also the gut vibes thing also feels off, because he still doesn't have a read on Randa as a result, so I'm not sure what to get from it? Are Baldrick/SB pushing in a scummy manner on Randa, and if so, does that mean that Randa is a mislynch waiting to happen? Or is it scum bussing scum, if the former 2 are pushing with scum intent? I don't know what to make of it. Feeling a bit scummish here.

Even if Randa's vote (as per Shinori's notion) wasn't purely made in OMGUS (the timing of it being posted), the logic behind his reactive Shinori vote in itself feels bad. I also did not agree with most of his points regarding Shinori overly forcing points, and most of his later posts have been in self-defense. Even if a lot of people posted about him during that time, I feel like more could've been offered not just about Shinori but about the rest of the player base. Not viewing this slot in a good light.

SB and Baldrick are both ok in my books currently. The former, even if I disagreed with his Athena case, has remained pretty stable in terms of content since then and that casing probably held the most weight in yanking us out of RVS. The latter had a good vote on Randa and has been offering a good amount of food-for-thought question prompting to dig up more responses.

I REFUSE TO CLICK ON SHOW REPLY ANYMORE WHILE MAKING THIS POST. FUCK YOU FORUMS.

The Shinori!efforting is real this game. Realtalk, he's been fairly consistent/steady with his casing, which is making me lean more towny than not currently. Gut is clenching a bit though when I read his posts, so... idk. Something gut vibes is bugging me, but I can't find the right words for it atm.

@athena_57 Does that imply that you agree with Kill's case on me? If that was the case, how are you reading my slot? Also how are you reading the rest of the player base outside of Randa/Baldrick?

@Killthestory

1. Yeah again, I forgot about there being an Sb and Randa vote made at the time of my posting the other post. However, my tired mind (from work and shit) was just noting the fact that people were waving their arms trying to get reactionary statements regarding SB"s Athena case. So the other two kinda blurred into the backgrounds for me at the point.

2. It's true that I sometimes get too wordy or such when making thought/reads posts. I guess I'm more worried about not being able to fully pan out my thoughts, in lieu of someone misunderstanding where my points/thoughts are, as well as avoiding the possibility of someone attempting to misrep/misinterpret where I'm going with my points (happened a lot in the past, and when I'm responding to blatant attempts to misrep what I'm actually saying, it actually frustrates me a lot and it shows in my responses in-game more often than not).

3. Also you could probably look at the vast majority of my games in which I really don't have much of any strong ED1 reads within the first 24 hours of the day phase. Half the time is due to me not being able to be fully active (due to work/IRL things), but for the majority of things I take more time to watch and observe people as I dig along for reads. I'm not the best at Mafia so I take a bit longer to process my reads sometimes. x_x

4. I was well-aware that I did not post much efforting the night before, because I was not in the mindset/physical state to do so. I was basically asleep at the computer because work is ass and I was hardly processing most of the posts being made in ED1. So I stated what I could and sought to post later on today before I had to go to my closing shift tonight.

For the record, I don't have much issues with Kill currently. I may  not have agreed with all of the points noted against me, but I also know that part of my posting was not stellar at all last night, so I can see where the sus was warranted. 

I think that covers everything that I had, not sure. 

As of priority currently, it looks something like Randa > Refa?

Randa, though he has posted more to read than Refa, has put forth a case that feels too artificial to really say much for, and also felt defensive in his response/vote against Shinori. There is also a lack of reads outside of just him which is creating a really bad tunneling feeling coming from this slot.

Refa is just behind due to the really lazy gameplay and lack of posting content. I put him slightly behind though because I'm not fully certain as to whether he is posing his inactivity as an excuse to scum-coast currently or if he's actually demotivated. I'm looking for more answers from him as well, and that will help me assess whether he moves up or down in priority. @Refa

##Unvote

##Vote: Randa

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I think scum!Refa would feel bad making that post because he'd be letting his scumbuddies down.

Also I typo'd and meant *wasn't good which should be clear from the rest of the paragraph.

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for the record, until i get back, just assume that eurykins is town. i'm not gonna bother going into it, but it's kind of getting obvious.

appropriate wagons for today have already been set. glgl

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Also, I leave for work in about 20-30 mins. I also posted HERE that I may be gone from the thread for a long while, due to back-to-back shifts. So I will try to check in after I get home tonight, but that might not be for long. Sorry. >_<

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42 minutes ago, Shinori said:

Honestly Refa might be a better lynch so far > Randa.

I dislike Randa and I feel like he's faking content and being hypocritical and hasn't done much but comment on me and defend himself but Refa's posts have a much stronger scum vibe behind them.

Sheeping SB on a baseless case during RVS is scum-intent of just letting someone else do the work as you act like you're doing something.

Chainsaw defense is scum intent regardless of Randa's alignment in this situation.

##Unvote:

##Vote: Refa

I don't disagree with the points against Refa, but this also oddly feels like a redirect off of Randa to Refa. Unsure if intended to or not, but something about this post bothers me.

*I guess it was him spending more of his time on Randa, but then swapping to putting Refa ahead of him? Also seemed to read his other posts as finding more issues with Randa than Refa, so doesn't fully makes sense to me. I might not be fully reading into "what reads as scummier/worse gameplay" though (if the chainsaw defense from Refa puts it above Randa's offenses), but sort of feels off to me.

Also I'm off to get ready for work. Have a good night guys, and I'll try to be back after my shift!

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3 hours ago, SB. said:

There’s no reason for scum to be afraid in RVS, but I got the impression that Athena was worried about me questioning him (even before I’d voted the slot) because his response was non-commital, even for a day 1 read.

Also, what do you think of Randa and Shinori?

I just realised I pinged @Baldrick before for a question and then FORGOT TO ASK IT but why does Refa’s question toward me seem more likely to come from scum? I don’t see it as alignment indicative, personally.

@athena_57 Is KTS scummy? The rest of your post is agreeable but I’m not sure it you think he’s scummy or not.

I don't really agree with this, because I think careful scum wouldn't want to stick out during rvs either. I can see where you're coming from though, his response to you wasn't great.

##Unvote

3 hours ago, Randa said:

I don't think I can disregard meta when talking about Shinori's logic. I think I mentioned it earlier but I have a friend I play mafia and secret hitler with IRL. Dude is super chill outside the game, bu when somebody new is playing with us he abuses the crap out of their inexperience and unfamiliarity with the system. Which is fine, but we all understand this and are able to differentiate the ways he picks new players apart. Anyways going back to Shinori's argument my experience tells me that a player does it consistently or not at all.

I think you're putting too much stack in someone else playing this way tbh. For instance people could default to picking on newbies only if they don't find anything else to talk about.

3 hours ago, Randa said:

Since people seem confused about this, I literally point out that nothing has happened at the point where I voted SB . The point of the vote is to try and make the game more active. I originally thought this was going to be by people discussing SB's questioning of Athena not actually leading to anything and whether people thought that was intentional, instead it wound up as people scum reading me, nothing unusual for me on any given day 1, and we actually have points to discuss. So yeah I think my vote accomplished its job.

If you wanted the game to become more active by people discussing SB's case, why didn't you comment on it yourself? If you didn't think there was much to comment on in regards to his case, why did you expect other people to talk about it? This feels to me like you were trying to make other people do the dirty work while still taking some of the credit for it (or at least make it appear like you were doing something), which is very scummy.

##Vote: Randa

2 hours ago, Killthestory said:

with eurykins, they make a lot of tmi reads and are waffling between a lot of wagons. "oh well, i don't really know what to make of this wagon here, but i don't like it." 10 times over. it's why i asked them if they had any scumreads due to the fact that this whole play here is just wolfy as fuck. no scumreads, heavy tmi reads, barely any REAL content or pushes, and nothing to indicate that they're town in this world. like, i don't understand if this is a purely player thing because i feel like wolves would also make a conscious effort to push SOMEONE,  but that just strikes me as over the top and very weird for the current gamestate as it stands. you have 7 pages to read. i'm almost absolutely sure if you tried hard enough, you could at least make SOME reads.  for example, here they make a lot of comments saying "this person is null, but WOW, this is weird for them!" it's a whole lot of shading, zero real thought process, and no concrete reads being made that reek of a wolf trying to look like they're solving without actually giving town anything to work with. 

however, later, they gave what they thought was ample reasoning for this, and i wasn't convinced either. they claim that there not being anything interesting to note or motivating to make them solve plus being tired (which i totally understand that reason) gives them zero reads. that's just not how reads work. when a townie reads something over, they go, "wow, that really didn't rub me the right way!" when a wolf reads something over, they go, "what's the best way to make it so i don't die today?" eurykins feels like the latter, and i think it's a good place to start from.

FWIW, I get why you don't like this playstyle of her, during EO3 I literally tried to vig her for it during N1 (didn't work, but that's a long story), but she always tends to start like this (she was town in EO3). Her reads generally improve a good bit later on as town, so I'm willing to give her some time to not be busy.

2 hours ago, Killthestory said:

honestly, i don't find anything wrong specifically with the posts. he's asking questions that are related to the game and progress the gamestate accordingly with good answers becoming meaningful to the question asked. yet, it just rubs me the wrong way. he's not actually committing to a serious read, similar to why i was pushing eurykins above, but he doesn't push a read while also simultaneously coming off as manipulative and voting someone he doesn't even refer to in the post. his questions are good, but the timing of them feels like what you guys would call gas lighting. he keeps an athena scumread open and then makes a ??? read on refa that i'm not sure how he really got to that read through whatever thoughts he's cooking up. the post here, too is similar to what i was describing in the above post.

Can you give an example as to what he's trying to manipulate people to do? Asking because his post don't really read that way to me.

24 minutes ago, SB. said:

Refa's recent post was good but I don't think he makes it as scum unless his buddies are also very disconnected from the game? I think his demotivation is going to be genuine regardless of alignment but I think if he had people talking to him he'd produce something more substantial while he's already under some suspicion. I think as town he'll get his groove back eventually so I wouldn't worry about him yet.

There's quite a few people who haven't really interacted with the game much at this point. Just saying :P

3 minutes ago, Killthestory said:

for the record, until i get back, just assume that eurykins is town. i'm not gonna bother going into it, but it's kind of getting obvious.

Wait, what?

Beter reads post coming up.

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3 hours ago, SB. said:

There’s no reason for scum to be afraid in RVS, but I got the impression that Athena was worried about me questioning him (even before I’d voted the slot) because his response was non-commital, even for a day 1 read.

So if scum has, as you yourself say, no reason to be afraid in RVS then why would Athena being nervous be or non-comital be scummy. You can say that it was RVS, but you continue to keep the option of a scum!Athena read open for a while. Like I don't see why you say scum has no reason to do something when you were using it as your reason to vote Athena. 

Like I don't have a problem with you reading Athena as town after their latest posts, since they were fine, but I honestly still don't get your early reads on Athena.

 

2 hours ago, SB. said:

Oh, I missed that part. My bad.

That being said, I don't think that Shinori's reads have been unclear at all because his posts have a lot of depth to them that explain his thought process and I don't think his priorities have been strange either. I've blankvoted someone who I'd previously cased before as town out of laziness so I can definitely get it lol.

What makes KTS different to Shinori? I don't understand why you would treat KTS' Ice/Eury/Randa comment so... nicely I guess, when you're scumreading Shinori for unclear priorities when KTS would be infinitely more guilty of that. It seems inconsistent to me.

@Killthestory Fwiw I'm bothering a lot of people with questions because in the last game I played I struggled to get reads and what I had mostly sucked so I'm trying to give myself more information to work with early. I unvoted Athena for Randa because I feel like Randa's vote on Shinori was weak and I feel like his attachment to defending his RVS actions is weird, I thought he would have just dropped it by this point so it reads as weirdly defensive. I didn't actually have a reason to drop the suspicion on Athena though until his last post where I liked how he answered my question.

I get your Eury suspicion but don't really agree because I felt similarly last game about them iirc and they were town, and I think Eury being confused by Shinori playing differently(?) makes sense because it's Eury. I understand enough of her thoughts even if she isn't pushing strongly rn that I'm not worried about her.

@Rapier Athena only stated their opinion Bart because I asked them to so I didn't see that as an attempt to be productive on his own, and also I explained why Athena's case was different. Is your comment on Bart serious? I don't get why you think he would feel scared of RVS votes.

1. Activity: Shinori was active and posting content as opposed to what was essentially non-content coming out of KTS. Which actually brings up a more notable point, @Killthestory why did you not just post your thoughts and reads when baldrick asked you to explain your view on the interaction between me and Shinori? Why did I need to specifically ask for you to justify your thoughts before you posted anything more than a sentence or two? Imma elaborate on my thoughts on KTS further down.

2. Expectations: I've played with Shinori before and I remember him being a good player. I have no idea who KTS is, have never played with him so I have no expectations.

1 hour ago, Refa said:

@Randa I meant, I literally don't have a read on your slot despite being bothered by the pushes on you.

I actually have a problem with this then. Like if you have a null read on me and your bothered by the pushes on me, then explain why. Do you have a scum read on anybody who's been pushing me? You mention Baldrick and SB off a gut read but mention nobody else who is voting me and don't really explain any specific parts about their cases. I get your demotivated but I feel like I expect more.

2 hours ago, Killthestory said:

as for lurky players i don't altogether like in terms of how i'm reading them v, i don't like refa or ice sage just lurking and making half committed comments to the game while people are in the middle of pushing each other. refa i think i have every reason for wanting to expect more from because, well, they played a very good town game last time i played with them, and here they're laying low and just very nothing. not strong yet. as for ice sage, his entrance was the textbook entrance for a scum player trying to lay low with a simple jokepost before moving into slanking. that read is sorta strong simply because of the entrance and the absolutely wolfy nature of it. 

 

1 hour ago, Killthestory said:

i don't really think this is the case lol.

regardless of if these were wagons or not,  you waffled on a lot of reads here. i poorly articulated my thoughts by describing them as wagons, but the initial point stands that you're sort of tmi while also simultaneously not committing to reads and not making any concrete pushes. comes off as a lot of manipulative shading that i don't really find the greatest in the world to look at. like, i want to challenge you to figure out who you find to be the likeliest scum instead of saying, "well, he could do this, but HE COULD ALSO DO THIS." doubting yourself on reads makes me doubt you on your reads, and when i doubt you on your reads, i doubt you on your alignment. i like not to be doubtful in mafia games. :)

it was more of a blanket statement, but it doesn't come across that way when there's few pages. i was aware that there wasn't 7 pages when you were posting at the time, but at the same time, i'm also aware there was still content to look into and formulate reads upon instead of coasting in the background and giving the image that you're gamesolving when you're not. 

can you show me direct examples of this within your town meta? 

i also dislike this self awareness. scum typically have more thoughts on their image and how they look to other people, so him just stating that he realizes it doesn't look good on him gives the implication that he's been paying attention to how he's looked with the rest of his posts as well.

yet... ##vote Ice Sage

22 minutes ago, Killthestory said:

for the record, until i get back, just assume that eurykins is town. i'm not gonna bother going into it, but it's kind of getting obvious.

appropriate wagons for today have already been set. glgl

Here's My problem with how KTS has been playing:

1. You go on about Eury for the entire post and you don't mention anywhere that your read on Eury swings to town. The parts I bolded I feel are saying you still scum read Eury and then you just like never explain why you change to Eury is ObvTown

2. You vote Ice Sage after barely mentioning him, and you really don't give us any reason for this. Like what makes Ice Sage worse then like SB, myself, Refa, or EvanManMan. It just seems completely arbitrary. 

This is the same thing I have an issue with Shinori's Refa vote for and I don't think this is just me being confused this time or misreading something. I feel like this is so much worse than Shinori's though, because you had more to work off of.

##Unvote

##Vote: KTS

I feel confident with this for now. 

1 hour ago, Shinori said:

I want to state one thing because I feel that this is slightly important WRT Randa/myself.

Randa's vote on me came in the middle of a very big post that focused at me.  It was also posted very shortly after my post voting him.

With this in mind I think he was already working on his post/already had his vote on me in his post when I voted him.

Therefore I fill that @Killthestory's reasoning for saying that it seems he doesn't care about his image (Cause scum wouldn't just vote the person who voted you generally because they are wary of image) isn't as big of an argument.  I don't feel his vote was OMGUS and I basically feel we actually voted each other at about the same time.

Yeah I think I posted like 5 minutes after you did cause I forgot to prepost check.

55 minutes ago, Shinori said:

Not reading Randa's posts yet disliking Randa push.  Attacking people for pushing someone based on 'gut' while not actually providing reasons as to why they are actually scummy while also not reading or commenting on the person they are pushing.  This is a classic chainsaw defense and this combined with Refa's earlier sheep vote makes him stay right at my #2 for scum reads at the moment.

Honestly I agree with this point not gonna lie. 

So basic rundown. I'm leaning more towards a null/town reading on Shinori. I am mostly null on SB and slightly scum on Refa. I'll address Eury and Bartozio and whoever else has posted since I started writing when I get around to it.

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i post my thoughts when i want to post my thoughts. whatever you said to me which i don't even remember has no effect in this.

the rest of it i'll maybe respond to when i get home. maybe. 

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On 5/11/2018 at 2:06 PM, SB. said:

##Unvote
##Vote: Athena

I feel like their response to me was kind of nervous. Why would me asking you about Bart be a joke? Overall I feel like Athena is kind of scared of giving the wrong answer now that they've been singled out.

Ftr I asked you the question because I was getting lowkey Kokichi vibes from you. I don't have a read on Bart myself yet.

This is bad

 

Did I prodge?

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1 hour ago, Eurykins said:

 

@athena_57 Does that imply that you agree with Kill's case on me? If that was the case, how are you reading my slot? Also how are you reading the rest of the player base outside of Randa/Baldrick?

No, maybe I should've clarified this. With 'the case is fine', I mean I like the intent behind the post and can understand his thought pattern, not that I like the content itself.
For the record, I disagree with the push on you, mostly because what I've seen from you past two town!you games you did the same. (I've read brexitland, where you were scum ánd did the same iirc, so your posting style is null for me)

1 hour ago, Eurykins said:

I don't disagree with the points against Refa, but this also oddly feels like a redirect off of Randa to Refa.

What do you mean by redirect? Like, he's looking for a reason to abandon the Randa wagon? Cause in that case I think I was getting similar vibes.

28 minutes ago, Randa said:

So basic rundown. I'm leaning more towards a null/town reading on Shinori. I am mostly null on SB and slightly scum on Refa. I'll address Eury and Bartozio and whoever else has posted since I started writing when I get around to it.

You were voting Shinori before this post. You mention him nowhere in this post. And now he's leaning town? Please explain where the change of heart came from, because for me it seems like you're attempting to defuse this 1v1 now that Shinori's voted someone else.

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I guess I should clarify then for Athena and Eury.

Still perfectly fine with a Randa lynch but I feel that Refa's play has much more scum intent behind it at the moment.

Would not complain if either of them got lynched currently and if for whatever reason one somehow got killed right now, I'd just vote the other.

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