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eclipse

Ares, Black Knight

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23 minutes ago, eclipse said:

I guess we're assuming PA!Azura?  I usually don't factor them in unless I need to point out a benchmark, since there's no telling what kind of situation my reader will be in.

Still, thanks for the explanation.

Yeah, something like that. In my opinion, it is generally a good idea to give enemies a stat advantage when planning out builds so you can be sure the build can handle higher merged and/or buffed enemies. If you are not giving enemies a large enough stat boost, a lot of builds would look better than they should be and it is harder to determine which build is better.

This is not super important if you are going for budget builds, but if you are trying to choose between say Fury and Distant Def for a unit that is neither fast nor slow, giving enemies a stat advantage helps a lot to see which skill is better since you are trying to figure out whether Fury's +3 to Spd is worth it.

Edited by XRay

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1 minute ago, XRay said:

Yeah, something like that. In my opinion, it is generally a good idea to give enemies a stat advantage when planning out builds so you can be sure the build can handle higher merged and/or buffed enemies. If you are not giving enemies a large enough stat boost, a lot of builds would look better than they should be and it is harder to determine which build is better.

I'm not even going to touch merges, since I doubt the vast majority of people will encounter high-merge units regularly (and for those that do, they should know WTF they're doing by now).

Buffs are trickier.  -owl/Bridal Sanaki throw a lot of wrenches into things.  Type buffs are another issue - the only one I'll assume outright is Hone Cavalry, due to the fact that it's both very offensive and easy to pull.

I can understand the logic of overstating the enemy, but it's dependent on whether or not that enemy exists in the first place. . .and in the case of the vast majority of people (source: arena rankings), the high-merge enemies only exist in stuff like the later stages of Lunatic TT.

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23 minutes ago, eclipse said:

I'm not even going to touch merges, since I doubt the vast majority of people will encounter high-merge units regularly (and for those that do, they should know WTF they're doing by now).

Buffs are trickier.  -owl/Bridal Sanaki throw a lot of wrenches into things.  Type buffs are another issue - the only one I'll assume outright is Hone Cavalry, due to the fact that it's both very offensive and easy to pull.

I can understand the logic of overstating the enemy, but it's dependent on whether or not that enemy exists in the first place. . .and in the case of the vast majority of people (source: arena rankings), the high-merge enemies only exist in stuff like the later stages of Lunatic TT.

I usually test 5*+0 against 5*+5 enemies. My Arena core are all 5*+10 and I see quite a few enemies around 5*+5, so I assume seeing enemies with +/-5 to your own units is a reasonable assumption to make.

I do not usually factor in buffs since I am lazy, but factoring them in helps determine which skills are more optimal for future proofing. For example, you do not want to give Nowi both Fury and Steady Breath if you are low on fodder but you want to give her several merges, so you probably want to set the enemies up with a stat advantage and test out which one is better.

Edited by XRay

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9 minutes ago, XRay said:

I usually test 5*+0 against 5*+5 enemies. My Arena core are all 5*+10 and I see quite a few enemies around 5*+5, so I assume seeing enemies with +/-5 to your own units is a reasonable assumption to make.

I usually see unmerged units, with the odd +1.  The highest I've ever seen is +3, and that was once.

My current team has a +1, and that's it.  I bounce around in tiers 17-19, which is a fairly large sample size.  Assuming that tier 18 has roughly my offense, it tells me that everyone below me has some variant of "less".  Hence why I think most people won't have to factor in merges.

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22 hours ago, eclipse said:

I guess we're assuming PA!Azura?  I usually don't factor them in unless I need to point out a benchmark, since there's no telling what kind of situation my reader will be in.

Still, thanks for the explanation.

I normally assume +3/3/3/3 from dual Rallies that are common in the higher Arena, which are worth more points than mobility Assist skills and can also be used to keep the team from splitting up.

 

21 hours ago, eclipse said:

I usually see unmerged units, with the odd +1.  The highest I've ever seen is +3, and that was once.

My current team has a +1, and that's it.  I bounce around in tiers 17-19, which is a fairly large sample size.  Assuming that tier 18 has roughly my offense, it tells me that everyone below me has some variant of "less".  Hence why I think most people won't have to factor in merges.

I typically now use +2 as my benchmark for the player's unit for the same logic that Gamepedia uses: This is roughly where you need to be to get into Tier 20 (but not stay necessarily there). I think that's a pretty decent benchmark to set for the competitively minded.

Gamepedia also change the enemy merge level ranging from +2 to +8 depending on the unit's stat total, but for simplicity I just use +5 (Gamepedia's benchmark for a team of Gen 1 infantry).

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Vampiric Knight (Abusing Dark Mystle. + Special-based healing tank)

Spoiler

Weapon: Dark Mystletainn
Assist: Ardent Sacrifice
Special: Sol or Aether depending on mood/map
A: Flexible. Blow or Stance skills, Brazens, raw stat skills, play your tastes.
B: Chills, Vantage or QR for enemy phasing, Desperation for player phasing
C: Horse buffs, Waves, Tactics, depending on team.

The idea is that we use Dark Mystletainn's Special Spiral effect to keep Ares alive via spammed Sols/Aethers, using him as an HP battery and tank, kept alive by... well, Ares says it best.

"Drink, Mystletainn!"

 

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2 hours ago, Corrobin said:

Vampiric Knight (Abusing Dark Mystle. + Special-based healing tank)

  Hide contents

Weapon: Dark Mystletainn
Assist: Ardent Sacrifice
Special: Sol or Aether depending on mood/map
A: Flexible. Blow or Stance skills, Brazens, raw stat skills, play your tastes.
B: Chills, Vantage or QR for enemy phasing, Desperation for player phasing
C: Horse buffs, Waves, Tactics, depending on team.

The idea is that we use Dark Mystletainn's Special Spiral effect to keep Ares alive via spammed Sols/Aethers, using him as an HP battery and tank, kept alive by... well, Ares says it best.

"Drink, Mystletainn!"

 

I'm hesitant on that, at least Sol anyway. Ares is strong no doubt, but he's generally relying on specials to kill as he's not strong enough to OHKO bulky enemies or fast enough to double the majority of enemies you encounter. And unlike Michalis, he doesn't get extra damage just from triggering a special. Aether could work, but means he'll need to take an attack and double to trigger it every round. Even +spd with hone cav and darting blow, Ares only hits 45 speed, which when other units can hit 40 or so pre-buffs doesn't look good for his PP, so that would mean he'd still probably end up running a brazen and probably close defense, just QR instead of vantage. Also, firing off an aether on a second attack has always seemed rather chancy to me. Feels like 70% of the time the enemy will have 15ish health, meaning you'll regain about 7. The advantage of Aether, to me at least, has always been the ability to time it with vantage so a unit can take some hits and then heal before the enemy has a chance to attack them.

Edited by bottlegnomes

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Aether or bust.  He wants to pop it on an enemy at full health, so he heals up completely.

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What's your opinion on Vantage? I was thinking of going Vantage, so he'll always have draconic aura procced and ready to oneshot his opponent especially with brazen atk/def and a +3 atk seal. Mine is +atk and - res BTW so this would work wonders due to high atk. 

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3 hours ago, Icelerate said:

What's your opinion on Vantage? I was thinking of going Vantage, so he'll always have draconic aura procced and ready to oneshot his opponent especially with brazen atk/def and a +3 atk seal. Mine is +atk and - res BTW so this would work wonders due to high atk. 

It should be in one of the builds last I checked. But it's possibly his best B skill for long-term stuff, by virtue of basically keeping him safe from enemy attacks. It synergizes great with Brazen Atk/Def and so long as they don't have hardy bearing, he'll be doing fine against all red and green, and even some blue, melees. As a note, bonfire will proc a couple extra points of damage. Even with + atk, DA is doing floor((55  + 7) * 0.3) = 18. Bonfire would be doing floor((33 + 7) * 0.5) = 20. It's only two points, but I figure bonfire is pretty easy to come by comparatively speaking and there might be cases 2 damage can make a difference, rare as they may be. With hone cavalry but no def boost, they're even at 20. The QR seal will make his first round better by guaranteeing he procs a special and almost certainly kills his opponent, but he's got shakyish durability, so CD is an option to keep him alive. It still guarantees he's setup to vantage+special everything to death so long as both he and his enemy get in one attack, but it also has the upside of boosting bonfire by 3 damage IIRC.

For reference, that's the build my Ares (+atk/-spd) is running and while he's a little shaky before getting his first special, especially with that -spd making him really prone to doubling :(:, once he does, he just roles through things since every attack is somewhere between 69-94 damage (72-97 with CD if I am remembering correctly) depending on WTA/D. CD versus QR has felt like more of an issue for me given that even with a hone basically everything doubles him, so keeping him alive is more important. With yours and a hone, 36 speed should be enough to keep him safe from a decent chunk of stuff.

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On 19/09/2018 at 9:06 PM, bottlegnomes said:

It should be in one of the builds last I checked. But it's possibly his best B skill for long-term stuff, by virtue of basically keeping him safe from enemy attacks. It synergizes great with Brazen Atk/Def and so long as they don't have hardy bearing, he'll be doing fine against all red and green, and even some blue, melees. As a note, bonfire will proc a couple extra points of damage. Even with + atk, DA is doing floor((55  + 7) * 0.3) = 18. Bonfire would be doing floor((33 + 7) * 0.5) = 20. It's only two points, but I figure bonfire is pretty easy to come by comparatively speaking and there might be cases 2 damage can make a difference, rare as they may be. With hone cavalry but no def boost, they're even at 20. The QR seal will make his first round better by guaranteeing he procs a special and almost certainly kills his opponent, but he's got shakyish durability, so CD is an option to keep him alive. It still guarantees he's setup to vantage+special everything to death so long as both he and his enemy get in one attack, but it also has the upside of boosting bonfire by 3 damage IIRC.

For reference, that's the build my Ares (+atk/-spd) is running and while he's a little shaky before getting his first special, especially with that -spd making him really prone to doubling :(:, once he does, he just roles through things since every attack is somewhere between 69-94 damage (72-97 with CD if I am remembering correctly) depending on WTA/D. CD versus QR has felt like more of an issue for me given that even with a hone basically everything doubles him, so keeping him alive is more important. With yours and a hone, 36 speed should be enough to keep him safe from a decent chunk of stuff.

Okay thanks for the advice. I'll change his special to bonfire. Now that I have vantage fodder other than Reinhardt who I'm keeping just in case I need him, I can proceed with this build. This build is probably good on arena assault but not on in game content such as infernal stuff due high HP values making it impossible to OHKO enemies. 

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Now that Eir is released I saw a new option regarding Ares.

In this video I saw an Ares with following key skills.

Special is Miracle

His A skill was Lad, B skill Mystic boost and Heavyblade Seal. Thanks to Mystic boost he can have over 1 HP after each fight. And with that as long as he is not doubled and can hit back he cannot be defeated. Of course it could be still situational. But it looks like a fun build which I wanted to share.

I give credits to this video though.

Spoiler

 

 

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18 hours ago, Stroud said:

Special is Miracle

His A skill was Lad, B skill Mystic boost and Heavyblade Seal. Thanks to Mystic boost he can have over 1 HP after each fight. And with that as long as he is not doubled and can hit back he cannot be defeated. Of course it could be still situational. But it looks like a fun build which I wanted to share.

I give credits to this video though.

Impressive. He can also maybe try Brazen Atk/Spd and Atk Smoke or Spd Smoke. On Aether Raids, if you are able to get a consistent lead in stat advantage, you can also do Distant Counter on the A slot and offload the A slot stat boosts to 3 or 4 Goad Cavalry buffs.

Edit: Just realized I typed in Brazen Atk/Res. I meant Brazen Atk/Spd.

Edited by XRay

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13 hours ago, XRay said:

Impressive. He can also maybe try Brazen Atk/Res and Atk Smoke or Spd Smoke. On Aether Raids, if you are able to get a consistent lead in stat advantage, you can also do Distant Counter on the A slot and offload the A slot stat boosts to 3 or 4 Goad Cavalry buffs.

Yeah, Speed Smoke with Goad help and DC would be awesome. If he cannot get doubled and hit back on mages it would extend his usability. Of course he is a bit on the slower side.
Of course its a bit investment with mystic boost. And I think this build makes more sense if he is a merge project. But it has potential and could stall out teams without healers and Firesweep users if done right. Sadly Bold fighter is still dangerous though... 

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