Regarding the Sanaki controversy.

[eclipse]

On 5/24/2018 at 1:18 AM, Jotari said:

How could it not be in the same category?

. . .I completely forgot what the hell I was thinking when I typed that.  Sorry.

4 hours ago, The_antithesis said:

You mentioned how there are serious consequences for the abuse of real children, and talked about how this makes the fictitious children in inappropriate situations is wrong. However, I feel you have made a subtle leap in logic when implying that doing things to fictitious characters is similar to doing those same things to a real person or animal, capable of feeling harm. So, I must ask the question: Do abusive/harmful acts against fictitious characters share any causal link with the abuse of real people? If the apparent falsehood of the "video games turn our kids into killers" argument is anything to go by, I'd argue that the answer may well be "no."

And thus, we go back to the controversy. If a person can act out a fetish without inflicting harm on anyone or anything, regardless of how close to being harmful or how disgusting we feel it is, is it our place to judge people on differing tastes?

It's like you read what I wrote, made up a narrative, and then pasted your own on top of it.

[Lord Raven]

2 hours ago, The_antithesis said:

And therein lies the problem. Inadequate research. We don't really know what goes on in the human brain, and what acting upon fictional characters does to these unknown processes. I brought up the violent video games argument because it's the closest thing we actually have data on! However, it does show that people can use fiction as an outlet for their more harmful urges without normalising it in real life. That can be translated towards any of our urges and desires.

That's why most people aren't speaking from a psychological standpoint but from a societal/sociological standpoint.

[Lewyn]

On 5/22/2018 at 12:07 PM, Florete said:

This post from Reddit explains my thoughts better than I ever would have been able to.

I'm not outraged, exactly, but I am quite disappointed. And I really wish that even if people don't take issue with it, they'd at least try to understand, try to see from the perspective of those who do take issue with it instead of hurling insults everywhere. You can understand without agreeing. If people were willing to do that this situation probably would have been a whole lot more peaceful.

I already posted in the Heroes threads about this topic, however this post explains very eloquently the problem many have.  Look at the history of Fire Emblem, games like Fates and Awakening where you can marry impregnate Nowi, Elise, etc.  Then look at Japan which only very recently outlawed live child porn, but still child porn manga and hentai films are still legal and thriving.  Then consider that softcore porn involving children is legal, and a huge money maker.  As well as child abuse/sexual abuse cases increasing and reaching record highs for the country. 

Pandering to the disgusting individuals who get off to this kind of stuff, well there is nothing "innocent" about it.  To those requesting research evidence.  Maybe they should stop with the pedo bait stuff, which nauseates most people, until they can find that it doesn't influence peoples attitudes or help encourage real life sex crime. Not like sexualization of children enhances the game experience in any way, unless you are into throwing up.  For those lolicons or whatever, they can find some other way to get their rocks off, they'll survive.  

[Tediz64]

I'm like 90/10 on this particular issue. One the one hand (10) it's cute and if we could twist and just say it's a dress that is like Victorian or Elizabethan style of clothing (like gothic Lolita but without the dark tone)  I'd go for it. I love that fashion and I'm a man who prefers elegance and grace over sexy anytime. But in reality this outfit isn't that and the theme proves it.

 

So on the other hand (90) it is disgusting. Literally at LEAST 100 different girls to pick from and they go for a child. I can't complain because I have fetishes for others things like maid, nurses, and nekomimi genre. As it stands now I'm ghastly afraid of this which is already becoming normalized. You can't say it isn't. It already is normalized. 

 

You know the gun mass shootings are still going on and you see it on the news. The reaction isn't "I can't believe this is happening", it is "another one?". The news isn't even covering places like Chicago or Detroit anymore and what the news calls a "mass shooting" is what happens there pretty damn frequently. That is something bad normalized. Soon instead of going "I can't believe that guy raped that little girl" we'll be going "again?" or "see?! It's always white people " (or black, hispanic, or whatever race. Doesn't matter but leave it to the media to make it a race topic) and then it goes on and on. 

 

I don't care anymore in the sense that there isn't anything I can do about it now. All I can do is mind my own business and not show support for things like this. I already uninstalled the game some time ago. I won't condone  something not only illegal but completely unethical/immoral. I think I uninstalled roughly after Nowi but I've seen the pictures so I know what is going on.

[Shoblongoo]

You know its really a window into where the fanbase is at atm; gacha gaming is nothing if not a sophisticated exercise in market analytics and consumer behavior models. 

In real time, the designers are seeing what sells. Seeing what doesn't sell. Seeing what fans will throw money at and what turns them away.

If they thought they were alienating too many players and losing money on the lolis, they'd stop making lolis.

The fact that they keep making them means that they're selling like hotcakes. 
 

[eclipse]

4 hours ago, Tediz64 said:

I'm like 90/10 on this particular issue. One the one hand (10) it's cute and if we could twist and just say it's a dress that is like Victorian or Elizabethan style of clothing (like gothic Lolita but without the dark tone)  I'd go for it. I love that fashion and I'm a man who prefers elegance and grace over sexy anytime. But in reality this outfit isn't that and the theme proves it.

 

So on the other hand (90) it is disgusting. Literally at LEAST 100 different girls to pick from and they go for a child. I can't complain because I have fetishes for others things like maid, nurses, and nekomimi genre. As it stands now I'm ghastly afraid of this which is already becoming normalized. You can't say it isn't. It already is normalized.

I won't fault you for your fetishes, as long as they're between adults who are capable of giving informed consent.  Whether a child is capable of giving that consent is debatable, at best.

[Tediz64]

On 5/29/2018 at 3:21 PM, eclipse said:

I won't fault you for your fetishes, as long as they're between adults who are capable of giving informed consent.  Whether a child is capable of giving that consent is debatable, at best.

I sorta can't get consent? I'm strictly talking about hentai. You can't get consent from two-dimensional non-existent people.

 

I mean if i knew a girl who'd wear a maid, nurse, and/or nekomimi outfit for me then that is a completely different subject. That is on the list or subject of "role-playing" which of course is already optional and spoken about before you do. I mean i'm just guessing here on how that works but say your dating a person and you want to try something new out. You typically talk about it and figure out how it is going to work before you do it. So that already in itself implies not only consent but a partner who you frequently do it with anyways (with consent hopefully and not some abusive relationship) 

 

Unless you mean to tell me there is a service where i can pay for a girl to do that for me so i can enact and do things like that. That is a WHOLE ANOTHER ball game which is also illegal and it's called prostitution.

 

I'm fine with just getting drinks/food served to me by girls wearing maid outfits at anime conventions. That satisfies me enough. Unforunately i can't get my maid/nekomimi fix unless i go to anime cons and talk to girls. But ....*drones on and on about how, when, where, bucket lists in life, goals, ideas of where to go and etc*. I"ll shut up now. I feel like i'm talking to much. I'm sure nobody cares about what i say anyways.

[Shoblongoo]

1 hour ago, Tediz64 said:

I mean if i knew a girl who'd wear a maid, nurse, and/or nekomimi outfit for me then that is a completely different subject. That is on the list or subject of "role-playing" which of course is already optional and spoken about before you do. I mean i'm just guessing here on how that works but say your dating a person and you want to try something new out. You typically talk about it and figure out how it is going to work before you do it. So that already in itself implies not only consent but a partner who you frequently do it with anyways (with consent hopefully and not some abusive relationship) 

Unless you mean to tell me there is a service where i can pay for a girl to do that for me so i can enact and do things like that. That is a WHOLE ANOTHER ball game which is also illegal and it's called prostitution.

I'm fine with just getting drinks/food served to me by girls wearing maid outfits at anime conventions. That satisfies me enough. Unforunately i can't get my maid/nekomimi fix unless i go to anime cons and talk to girls. But ....*drones on and on about how, when, where, bucket lists in life, goals, ideas of where to go and etc*. I"ll shut up now. I feel like i'm talking to much. I'm sure nobody cares about what i say anyways.

We have a thread for these kinds of discussions that I highly encourage you to check out. I have things I'd want to say about what you just posted, but I feel like it would be highly off-topic and inappropriate to post them in this thread.  

 

1 hour ago, Tediz64 said:

You can't get consent from two-dimensional non-existent people.

^^^On Topic: This. So much this. 

Weird fact. A picture of Elise or Sanaki has exactly the same capacity to consent to--well, anything--as a picture of Camilla or Elincia.