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Durability. Yes or no?


Durability or not?  

82 members have voted

  1. 1. Should IS keep Durability

    • Yes
      54
    • No
      28


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@Bhoop I believe the thinking behind tomes is that they act as a conduit for whatever magical energy is used to cast the spell. Where SoV that comes in the form of wearing yourself out by using yourself as the conduit, it shows up in the other games as pages in the book basically crumbling per use. I want to say it's discussed in another thread on here and might be mentioned by Gotoh. Don't ask me why a random blacksmith in FE4 knows how to restore magic to a book. Or really, why he knows how to repair weapons created by dragons, but that's neither here nor there. Also, I don't use Lute <_<

Edited by bottlegnomes
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35 minutes ago, Robin_Of_Ylisse said:

I personally hated the silver weapon debuff  in fates, however I also hate weapons breaking, I think I would much prefer having unbreakable weapons so that I don't have to worry about my weapons every single time I go into battle.

So you'd rather have weapons that are borderline unusable over ones that are usable and have to be replaced? 

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40 minutes ago, Modamy said:

Orsin's Pugi, Mareeta's ... um, Mareeta's sword

No. Just no. I am not gonna use some of the best weapons in the game for EXP. They are great boss killers, but that's all i am gonna use such weapons for.

 

46 minutes ago, Modamy said:

they won't need them later on why would you hoard them

or hoard em and use em late game when they are powerful for one shotting stuff. 

While i did use Pugi on generic units for capturing, Mareeta's sword was strictly boss stuff thanks to Nihil.

47 minutes ago, Modamy said:

use the resources at their disposal to the greatest affect in order to complete each map.

When iron/steel do work fine, why should i use stronger weapons i might need later?

 

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1 minute ago, Slumber said:

So you'd rather have weapons that are borderline unusable over ones that are usable and have to be replaced? 

I'd rather they balance the unusable stuff over replacing weapons over and over again. 
And Silver/stronger weapons weren't useless in Fates, they worked great in Attack Stance because they don't debuff the user then if he is the secondary attacker.

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2 hours ago, Shrimperor said:

does it? In CQ, until late midgame, you have to think where to invent the money, because you need Master Seals and weapons are expensive af. Buying 2 eff. weapon for a chapter can easily break your wallet.

It does de-value money. The system doesn't work very well in Birthright or Revelations because of the virtually infinite supply of it you are given. It makes sense in Conquest and weapon durability is done again the in-game economy will need to be balanced around it.

Additionally, the weapon balancing from Conquest, as many people have already said, should be tweaked. 

Personally, I would prefer it if durability went away. I feel like when weapon durability is removed it gives designers the ability to make more interesting maps. Some of the grindier Conquest maps would have been impossible for me with weapon durability. 

I wonder if a system where weapons break, but then become ore would work. The player would then use the ore to forge better weapons once enough ore was obtained. This, combined with an economy where some swords can't be bought, but must be forged could incentives players to but less effective weapons and use them knowing that they could become good material for later. Or maybe one could simply melt down two lesser swords immediately if needed. This could help get rid of the hoarding problem where one has too many weapons around the end of the game.

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2 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

I'd rather they balance the unusable stuff over replacing weapons over and over again. 
And Silver/stronger weapons weren't useless in Fates, they worked great in Attack Stance because they don't debuff the user then if he is the secondary attacker.

That's why I said "borderline". 

There's nobody on earth who would directly use Silver Weapons in Fates, though.

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1 minute ago, Slumber said:

That's why I said "borderline". 

There's nobody on earth who would directly use Silver Weapons in Fates, though.

Guess who spent most of Revelation doing it?

...So I'm kind of a stickler for making everyone use weapons equal to their Weapon Rank.  It's this weird fixation I have.

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I'm fine either way, though Fates's system did need rebalancing- who thought it was okay to let Xander and Ryoma have no-drawbacks superweapons from the moment they joined? I never forged, so Iron outdoing the other types wasn't a huge issue for me. Silver was mostly untouched, save for Bow users, since they can hit things often without fear of counterattack and -2 Str/Skl isn't a big issue when you've exhausted your one action that turn and will likely have no enemy phase, reducing the Atk loss to -1, next to nothing. Thus you can use Silver almost all time with Bow units, and if they only need to use it every other turn, it's effects are very minimal, while the higher Mt is very helpful against fliers. I guess you could make the same case for Tome users, but why use Silver there when you have Lightning, which has the same debuff effect, but potential quad hitting?

Durability- I do hoard rare stuff and I like not having to in Fates (but I still do with stat boosters). Normal weapons breaking is rarely such an issue, since you can always see exactly how much durability a weapon has left, most games give a good deal of money, and ever since FE8, access to a shop to buy more is a constant all the time. For prior games and SD/NM, once you've played though once, you know where all the shops will be and where to load up in advance. Although if you don't, you can I admit easily be hurting for weapons in FE7, that long stretch between FFO and Battle Preparations can burn through your Javelin/Hand Axes supplies real fast. The most annoying thing about limited durability besides weapons being hoarded, was ending battles with near empty weapons that'll break in two seconds into the next fight wasting inventory space, but SD fixed this with weapon merging.

 

5 minutes ago, NPR said:

The system doesn't work very well in Birthright or Revelations because of the virtually infinite supply of it you are given.

Money? Nope, I don't see that, with Revelations at least. BR and CQ give basically the same amount of liquid assets, Rev on the other hand with the stealth money gives a mere 60000 gold I determined a while back, which is very tight. All those free weapons are there to compensate for the lack of actual funds you get. Skirmishes need time or chapter progression to spawn for free, otherwise they cost money (unless they too can spawn via MyCastle visiting).

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I dislike the durability. It makes so many of the better weapons fall under the troupe of being "too awesome to use" and I usually never use them in the end. 

I have to constantly buy and stock up on weapons and never sure if I'll ever use them. 

Fates got rid of the durability, but instead, it made things even worse with their negative effects on it. Seriously, silver weapon debuffs are the worst. Hell, even the S-ranked weapons were pitiful. 

Echoes was very well done in my opinion. 

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44 minutes ago, Slumber said:

So you'd rather have weapons that are borderline unusable over ones that are usable and have to be replaced? 

No, it takes a lot of work, but if you merge weapons it can make the silver weapons SOME WHAT useful, but don't get me wrong I don't like the debuffs fates gave the silver weapons it made them pretty useless 

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I voted no, but...

I prefer having limited durability to Fates's godawful system. But I never use legendary weapons because I don't want to waste them. ._.

Maybe durability would be more tolerable if, when used up, a weapon would revert to a "broken" state that can't be equipped, but could still be repaired for money. That way you won't have to worry about losing a rare weapon forever.

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honestly i think the thing that kinda annoyed me about fates lack of weapon durability, aside from even less incentive to use the more powerful weapons more often, is that they weren't consistent with it. instead of balancing staves and rods around unlimited durability they just made them break (and often considering their low uses especially for the more powerful staves). i mean sure it would have been kinda hard without reworking them from the ground up but come on put in the effort.

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17 minutes ago, NobodiePichu said:

honestly i think the thing that kinda annoyed me about fates lack of weapon durability, aside from even less incentive to use the more powerful weapons more often, is that they weren't consistent with it. instead of balancing staves and rods around unlimited durability they just made them break (and often considering their low uses especially for the more powerful staves). i mean sure it would have been kinda hard without reworking them from the ground up but come on put in the effort.

Oh, come now... infinite uses on staves like the Hexing Rod would be stupid. And the Hexing Rod is stupid already.

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11 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Oh, come now... infinite uses on staves like the Hexing Rod would be stupid. And the Hexing Rod is stupid already.

The Hexing Rod is literal cancer and I hope it never comes back

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In Fates forging Iron weapons was the way to go and that is a bad game design: the debuffs of the "stronger" weapons was a mess. Resource management is a skill so I want weapon durability back.

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31 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

The Hexing Rod is literal cancer and I hope it never comes back

There was no need for the strikethrough. Also, anyone who thinks infinite uses on that thing is anywhere near a good idea must be on some mind altering drugs that I would NOT want to try.

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54 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Oh, come now... infinite uses on staves like the Hexing Rod would be stupid. And the Hexing Rod is stupid already.

yes it would be stupid, and the designers would probably recognize its stupidity if it was given infinite uses and thus rebalance it or remove it entirely. personally i could have seen it working if its effect only lasted like, a turn or until after the next engagement, or even just a couple of turns not the entire fucking map. hell even just bringing back the restore staff would have helped make it feel less punishing but no...

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I've thought of ways to mitigate the weapon use system:

Melee - Instead of losing a melee weapon outright, it becomes a broken weapon with Might 1 and any special effects it has are disabled. Broken weapons can be repaired for a price. Durability is only spent if the weapon connects, regardless of whether damage was dealt. A miss does not spend weapon durability.

Ranged - Since these weapons use ammo, instead of durability they have ammunition. If the weapon runs out of ammunition, you merely need reload it. However, any attack made with a ranged weapon will expend a shot, regardless if it hits.

Magical - Magical weapons could have charges that work much like ammunition for ranged weapons.

Bare Fists - If a unit can equip a weapon with attacking capability but do not have a useable weapon on hand (say, because their bow has run out of arrows), they can attack with Bare Fists. When using Bare Fists, a unit must work with their base stats, and they have weapon disadvantage against swords, axes, and lances.

Thus, you never truly lose weapons unless you sell them or otherwise choose to get rid of them, they just break or run out of shots and require repairs/reloading.

Edited by Lord_Brand
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I like weapons with durability. Kind of makes you think more about which weapon you should use in some scenarios instead of always using the best possible one. Which makes me utilize Iron weapons more than I should, because they are easy to get, and have good durability. The only drawback is when I have special weapons, that cannot obtain in the game anywhere else, and there is no way to repair them. I think a repair would be nice if it comes with a price, and I don't mean gold, but performance. Maybe it loses might or max durability.

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On one hand I dislike durability because weapons have to be constantly replaced in order for your troops to keep fighting. This is especially frustrating in some games where unique weapons are breakable, and therefore should be hoarded until certain battles. On the other hand I understand that being able to buy 3 killing Edges to last you the entire game could perhaps break the difficulty of the game, and Infinite use unique weapons are often so good that there is no reason to use any other. So it's a complicated problem

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