Did Alm/Celica unleash great evil without knowing it?

[Totally Not Inigo]

Near the end of Thabes Labyrinth, you have to remove the sages shield from the door. And if you read the tablets coming up to the door, you knew that there was some evil stuff being sealed away by that shield.

Did Alm/Celica unleash The Creation upon the world without even knowing it by removing the seal?

[Dragoncat]

Probably...it would make a lot of sense.

[DisobeyedCargo]

Well to be fair they did reseal it for another thousand years presumably 

i like to think of it like this

either grima would have grown powerful enough to break the seal on his own soon and they delayed his return. Ooorrrr

they never travel to Thabes and grima releases on his own in a thousand years, or they travel to Thabes and smack grima, but levaing Thabes unsealed allows grima to leave after 1000 years. It's a catch 22. 

[Kazuya]

I'm almost certain Act 6 isn't canon. Why would the King and Queen of a new kingdom leave when they still have major issues to deal with. Camus and the Whitewings left for Archanea, and most of the mercenaries are developing a land of their own. None of them would be able to just get back together and go into Archanea to this old sand tower out in the middle of a desert. 

[LucarioGamer812]

17 minutes ago, Kazuya said:

I'm almost certain Act 6 isn't canon. Why would the King and Queen of a new kingdom leave when they still have major issues to deal with. Camus and the Whitewings left for Archanea, and most of the mercenaries are developing a land of their own. None of them would be able to just get back together and go into Archanea to this old sand tower out in the middle of a desert. 

Besides the Archanaea characters being timeline wise gone, we can possibly assume years have passed and they were personally requested to be escorts by that merchant, which means the royal knights and their mercenary comrades could have been brought along. It may not make much sense but best explanation I have.

Anyways a theory of mine that correlates some with the timeline is that Alm/Celica do defeat Grima, but only seal him in the Falchion for about 1000 years since Mila's blessing had worn off. After 1000 years, which ended the Alm dynasty, Grima broke free, destroyed the Valentian Falchion, and caused terror on the world until the first exalt put him down and founded Ylisse. This explains the end of the Alm dynasty and the continent name change from Valentia to Valm in his honor and why the Valentian Falchion is missing in Awakening's lore.

[Light Strategist]

34 minutes ago, Kazuya said:

I'm almost certain Act 6 isn't canon. Why would the King and Queen of a new kingdom leave when they still have major issues to deal with. Camus and the Whitewings left for Archanea, and most of the mercenaries are developing a land of their own. None of them would be able to just get back together and go into Archanea to this old sand tower out in the middle of a desert. 

Maybe the Whitewings and Camus were convinced to stay for the coronation and chose to out of a sense of respect and gratitude. I mean, everyone'd be willing to celebrate that occasion and the journey to Archanea could easily be where Camus and the Whitewings separated at separate instances.

Just a thought though.

[Acacia Sgt]

21 minutes ago, Light Strategist said:

Maybe the Whitewings and Camus were convinced to stay for the coronation and chose to out of a sense of respect and gratitude. I mean, everyone'd be willing to celebrate that occasion and the journey to Archanea could easily be where Camus and the Whitewings separated at separate instances.

Just a thought though.

Well, with Camus there's actually no issue, since he only went to Archanea once word of Hardin's rule going downhill reached him. Depending on the timeline, and assuming Act 6 does happen, that could leave enough time.

Personally, though, I would think Act 6 may just be part-canon.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Acacia Sgt

[omegaxis1]

1 hour ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

Well to be fair they did reseal it for another thousand years presumably 

i like to think of it like this

either grima would have grown powerful enough to break the seal on his own soon and they delayed his return. Ooorrrr

they never travel to Thabes and grima releases on his own in a thousand years, or they travel to Thabes and smack grima, but levaing Thabes unsealed allows grima to leave after 1000 years. It's a catch 22. 

 

44 minutes ago, LucarioGamer812 said:

Besides the Archanaea characters being timeline wise gone, we can possibly assume years have passed and they were personally requested to be escorts by that merchant, which means the royal knights and their mercenary comrades could have been brought along. It may not make much sense but best explanation I have.

Anyways a theory of mine that correlates some with the timeline is that Alm/Celica do defeat Grima, but only seal him in the Falchion for about 1000 years since Mila's blessing had worn off. After 1000 years, which ended the Alm dynasty, Grima broke free, destroyed the Valentian Falchion, and caused terror on the world until the first exalt put him down and founded Ylisse. This explains the end of the Alm dynasty and the continent name change from Valentia to Valm in his honor and why the Valentian Falchion is missing in Awakening's lore.

No, they didn't. Grima wasn't sealed by Alm and the others. Grima, in fact, escaped the battle and was freed from his prison, but the injuries he sustained made him not actually launch an attack. 

Remember, whenever Grima is defeated or sealed, Grima leaves behind skeletal remains. Did that with the First Exalt, did that in the final battle of Awakening. Here, Grima didn't leave any skeleton, but actually just disappeared. That's why his presence never actually vanished after his defeat. Even his character profile mentioned that he merely vanished.

[LucarioGamer812]

11 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

 

No, they didn't. Grima wasn't sealed by Alm and the others. Grima, in fact, escaped the battle and was freed from his prison, but the injuries he sustained made him not actually launch an attack. 

Remember, whenever Grima is defeated or sealed, Grima leaves behind skeletal remains. Did that with the First Exalt, did that in the final battle of Awakening. Here, Grima didn't leave any skeleton, but actually just disappeared. That's why his presence never actually vanished after his defeat. Even his character profile mentioned that he merely vanished.

Is there any evidence of Grima not leaving a skeleton in echoes? We know it happens in Awakening but lets say in Echoes it's unshown because they didn't want to make a model for it, and even if Grima did just vanish, his spirit could have just went into the Valentian Falchion much like how Mila did and simply waited there for 1000 years to recover before doing what I mentioned. Also what evidence is there that Grima escaped the battle with Alm/Celica, just how he vanishes? I like to think they sealed him thinking they killed him since Falchion no longer had Mila's blessing. ANd though I think they sealed him, just the game devs didn't do the model or animation of his skeleton because too much work that wasn't really needed.

I will admit what I've said does require a lot of what ifs, but it's just how I fill in the holes and make it fit with the continuity of the timeline and lore. Besides what I say may not even be true since we have no definitive proof so feel free to disagree or not believe what I'm saying, just throwing my ideas and thoughts here and what I believed happen, which is probably different from your perspective.

[omegaxis1]

3 minutes ago, LucarioGamer812 said:

Is there any evidence of Grima not leaving a skeleton in echoes? We know it happens in Awakening but lets say in Echoes it's unshown because they didn't want to make a model for it, and even if Grima did just vanish, his spirit could have just went into the Valentian Falchion much like how Mila did and simply waited there for 1000 years to recover before doing what I mentioned. Also what evidence is there that Grima escaped the battle with Alm/Celica, just how he vanishes? I like to think they sealed him thinking they killed him since Falchion no longer had Mila's blessing. ANd though I think they sealed him, just the game devs didn't do the model or animation of his skeleton because too much work that wasn't really needed.

I will admit what I've said does require a lot of what ifs, but it's just how I fill in the holes and make it fit with the continuity of the timeline and lore. Besides what I say may not even be true since we have no definitive proof so feel free to disagree or not believe what I'm saying, just throwing my ideas and thoughts here and what I believed happen, which is probably different from your perspective.

^ Says right there that Grima seemingly disappears upon defeat. We have Grima's defeat at the First Exalt where he was sealed, and when he was sealed again by Chrom, or Grima being killed by Robin. In all these scenarios, Grima leaves behind his skeletal remains. But here, Grima merely vanishes. Not only that but upon defeat, it was stated both in-game and in this character profile that Grima's presence and the sense of doom and dread that Grima gives off remained.

Furthermore, contrary to popular belief (I myself being one of them before), the sealing of Grima is, in fact, an indefinite amount of time. There is no time limit on how long Grima will be sealed, only that the completed Fire Emblem or a pure fellblood vessel can break the seal on Grima. 

[GamerX51]

18 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

In all these scenarios, Grima leaves behind his skeletal remains. But here, Grima merely vanishes. Not only that but upon defeat, it was stated both in-game and in this character profile that Grima's presence and the sense of doom and dread that Grima gives off remained.

Furthermore, contrary to popular belief (I myself being one of them before), the sealing of Grima is, in fact, an indefinite amount of time. There is no time limit on how long Grima will be sealed, only that the completed Fire Emblem or a pure fellblood vessel can break the seal on Grima. 

Not only that, but you have to remember that in Echoes, Grima is still basically an infant (at least in draconic terms). He still isn't anywhere near strong enough to seriously be a threat to the world by the end of Echoes. I'm pretty certain that at this stage of his development, Naga could have easily killed Grima. Hell, even Gotoh might have been able to at least reseal him, if not kill him outright.

Edited May 23, 2018 by GamerX51

[omegaxis1]

2 minutes ago, GamerX51 said:

Not only that, but you have to remember that in Echoes, Grima is still basically an infant (at least in draconic terms). He still isn't anywhere near strong enough to seriously be a threat to the world by the end of Echoes. I'm pretty certain that at this stage of his development, Naga could have easily killed Grima. Hell, even Gotoh might have been able to at least reseal him, if not kill him outright.

Doubtful. Remember that Grima even at this early stage was able to be struck and defeated, presumably from Falchion as the popular belief is, and Falchion is called an incarnation of Naga herself, meaning at its full power, Falchion has power equal to Naga, and Alm wields Falchion's full power, hence why he can defeat Duma with it. But even with it, Grima didn't die upon defeat, nor was he even sealed. He just vanished, likely escaping. It's like when in the Drama CDs, Lucina with her Falchion only got a partial Awakening done, and thus was only able to hurt Grima, but not defeat him.

[CatManThree]

@omegaxis1 Both Falchions were created by Naga by forging two of her fangs into the blades of swords, hence the nickname "Kingsfang". Both blades allow the wielder to fight as if they were a divine dragon themselves, it doesn't give the user Naga's power like the Book of Naga from FE4. The wielder of Falchion can only obtain Naga's power after preforming the Awakening.

Edited May 23, 2018 by CatManThree

[omegaxis1]

15 minutes ago, CatManThree said:

@omegaxis1 Both Falchions were created by Naga by forging two of her fangs into the blades of swords, hence the nickname "Kingsfang". Both blades allow the wielder to fight as if they were a divine dragon themselves, it doesn't give the user Naga's power like the Book of Naga from FE4. The wielder of Falchion can only obtain Naga's power after preforming the Awakening.

Incorrect. The Falchions are fashioned to function the same way as Holy Weapons from Genealogy as stated by Kaga himself. Not to mention, the Falchion that is performed with the Awakening is actually restoring Falchion's full power, as well as the ability to seal Grima, since it's performed using the Shield of Seals in conjunction. 

In other words:

Falchion ≥ Book of Naga.

[Dark Dragon Knight]

I like to think Alm/Celica did the world a favor by breaking the seal and defeating Grima. No one knows how long the sage's seal would have last if it hadn't been broken. It could have lasted for a 100 years or a 1000 years, their is no way of knowing. Alm/Celica defeating Grima caused it to not act for a 1000 years, which might be better than allowing it to break free from the seal and attacking the world.