What if the Black Knight killed Ike?

[Jotari]

Saw this video

 

 

 which (spoiler alert) ends with Ike losing the fight and it kind of got me thinking, what would happen if Ike straight up did die at that point in the story? The Crimean forces still had an overwhelming advantage at that point in the story, and unlike the Barhara Barbecue, Ike's army still would have been intact even with their leader killed. Nasir still would have shown up to resuce Ena and collapse the castle, so the Black Knight would have been taken out of the conflict. The Laguz Kings still would have shown up and Ashnard would have eventually been defeated. So I don't think anything would have changed in Path of Radiance if Ike died after defeating Petrine and making a foot hold in Crimea.

 

Now for Radiant Dawn, the most immediate and obvious impact that would have had would be Lucia would have been killed...but like, tragic as that might be, what does Lucia even do for the plot? Elincia had still resolved to sacrifice her friend, so it's not like much of the Crimean plot would have changed. And then in part 3, the Laguz Alliance still would have been pushed back by Zelgius, probably earlier without Ike's help, and maybe with a few more casualties, but Sanaki eventually would have escaped anyway and flew to the Crimean border to take back half her army and march on Begnion via Daein. Then the judgement would have still happened, three army split (maybe with Nailah controlling Ike's army) and Tower of Guidance trek. He does deal the final blow to Ashera, but presumably Yune could have given all her power to anyone, like say Tibarn (who almost certainly would have replaced Ike for the Round 4 Black Knight duel).

 

Guys...is Ike...kind of superfluous in Radiant Dawn?

[countchrisdo]

Oh god, this is Indiana Jones all over again. This is pretty creative, I honestly never noticed but you're sort of right.

[indigoasis]

I saw that animation too, and I thought it was really cool. The music is actually really good. I would love to hear the Black Knight's theme in full (without the background noise going on) in this style, but maybe some other day.

Getting back on topic, to answer the title question, Ike can't die the story would probably continue on as usual with the proposed plot changes you mentioned to compensate for Ike's death. That, or the usual Game Over would happen like with all video games, and Ike gets a do over.

As for Radiant Dawn and Ike's importance, I would say Ike has a bit of importance. Not too much, but still. Even if he and the Greil Mercenaries weren't playable, they would have to show up at some point or another, like when the Dawn Brigade and the Greil Mercenaries fought each other. Even if they didn't, Sothe would still be around to at the very least mention Ike, which shows how influential Ike was (well, to Sothe, anyway).

There's also Ike and the Black Knight's whole rival dynamic to consider, too. What's the point of keeping the Black Knight around if there's no Ike to fight him? Which brings me back to the topic question, if the Black Knight killed Ike, he wouldn't really have too much purpose anymore. He would still be around, I'm sure, but he would never get to experience battle with Greil in his prime through Ike again.

But those are just my thoughts. I haven't played Radiant Dawn (yet, because it's expensive), but I know a bit of the plot.

[NinjaMonkey]

47 minutes ago, Jotari said:

He does deal the final blow to Ashera, but presumably Yune could have given all her power to anyone, like say Tibarn (who almost certainly would have replaced Ike for the Round 4 Black Knight duel).

Based on what reasoning, exactly?

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Based on what reasoning, exactly?

Based on the fact that he actually tries to fight the Black Knight in the Tower, but Ike like holds up his hand and says "Nah bro, I got more beef with him than you."

[thecrimsonflash]

I always liked the thought of mist wielding ragnell, seriously, she has a special conversation with BK which reading it could be used in the context of Ike dying (whether or not there was anything behind it originally) having Mist be so utterly broken by this experience that she decides to fight for revenge.

I know that such a thing will never happen but it could make an interesting heroes alt, kind of like mage knight erika welding gleipnir in lyon's memory.

on topic, it is hard to say for certain, I do think that that final battle would have been way more bloody for one, because without Ike to command the lead force it is very likely that one of the other fronts may have collapsed on account of there being no one to lead the main group (no, elincia would have not been able to do it, she is no military leader and very likely would have not been able to continue with Ike dead, he was on a similar level to lucia, geoffrey, and bastian and one of the main reasons she decided to fight, Ike was also meant to represent the common man in the liberation effort, this is why he was chosen to be its leader the people would have had a harder time rallying behind some general from begnion or a faceless maybe even fake secret princess of crimea), soren would probably leave which may have not meant much I can't remember for sure, actually the demoralization would have been horrible when you think about it, generals are not so easily replaced and there are not many good candidates to play that role, leanne would have still gotten out regardless of crimea, I can't say for sure how things would have gone over with the hawks either, they probably would have stuck around because they were already in pretty deep but they may have been pretty demoralized, the beast tribe is no question in regardless as they are one of crimea's closest allies.

I think that begnion would have had more claim on crimea than in RD if Ike wasn't around to keep the need for reinforcements lower preventing begnion from taking victories, actually it is also difficult to say if yune may have been awakened by it, that last battle was pivotal to the war effort and if a tactical retreat was called it could have ended in disaster if they had to try twice to defeat ashnard, nasir and ena taking the field was a problem because they would have acted as representatives of goldoa which may have counted as enough for the whole continent being pulled into the war. the last battle only went so smoothly because there was someone capable of filling all necessary roles including holding off the main daien force, keeping the skies cleared, capturing retreating soldiers, and taking out the king of daien himself all at once, we could maybe pull out one commander but even then they were probably called after their troops were directed enough to not collapse and subsequently retreat due to being left directionless.

edit: in RD the laguz alliance would have collapsed or been stopped at that one fortress without soren's guidance (he wouldn't have cared, he went where Ike went, even in this ending) that would have been an absolute failure and they would have not even made it to the river, begnion would have then retaliated and attacked galia directly (skrimir taking the field in itself was a declaration of war) hard to say for certain, but I doubt it would have ended well, I don't know for sure who could have commanded the combined crimea, gallia, phoenicis and beginion armies, they chose Ike because he was the only person who commanded respect from all four nations and I doubt that sanaki would have taken the field and elencia was not respected by begnion, skrimir or tibarn were not very loved by begnion and some of crimea and sanaki would not be taken too seriously by many of the beast tribe and hawk tribes regardless of their leaders opinions. This certainly leads to a few conundrums I must admit.

edit... again: elincia would have been killed by valtome, she would have still shown up at the crimea/galia border and offered her life to the two armies in exchange for continuing the conflict, then the two lead forces would have left but there would be no unaffiliated units to protect her from valtome's men, and her royal knights would not have been enough to keep her safe, this is clear in RD that elencia did not expect for anyone to stay after after retreating, or she expected to die, so sanaki would have had to meet up with everyone in gallia (crimea would have fallen to begnion easily with no clear succession and the subsequent demoralization) which may have been a shaky alliance at best.

Edited June 3, 2018 by thecrimsonflash

[bottlegnomes]

To be fair, most characters, even lords are superfluous. What does Elincia do in RD? Her story has no effect on the larger plot and whether Ludveck controls Crimea or not doesn't really mean much since he still would've ended up in the war, just maybe on the opposite side. All the laguz royals just get replaced by the next strongest. Really the only characters that are especially vital to the sequence of events are Sephiran for orchestrating everything, Micaiah for rallying Daein, and the BK for saving Miccy. Most everyone else just gets replaced by someone that might not be as fit for the role, but works well enough. Then again, that's basically life, so I guess it's appropriate.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, bottlegnomes said:

To be fair, most characters, even lords are superfluous. What does Elincia do in RD? Her story has no effect on the larger plot and whether Ludveck controls Crimea or not doesn't really mean much since he still would've ended up in the war, just maybe on the opposite side. All the laguz royals just get replaced by the next strongest. Really the only characters that are especially vital to the sequence of events are Sephiran for orchestrating everything, Micaiah for rallying Daein, and the BK for saving Miccy. Most everyone else just gets replaced by someone that might not be as fit for the role, but works well enough. Then again, that's basically life, so I guess it's appropriate.

Crimea falling to Ludveck would have had a major impact on the world, depending on Ludvecks's actions in the war. It very easily could have resulted in the Liberation Army not getting to Begnion via Daein, which would have meant no battle against Micaiah and thus no awakening of Ashera via the Galdr of Release which (ostensibly) would have made Ashera worse (or could possibly have woken Ashera without waking Yune in which case everyone would have been absolutely screwed).

Edited June 3, 2018 by Jotari

[thecrimsonflash]

52 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

To be fair, most characters, even lords are superfluous. What does Elincia do in RD? Her story has no effect on the larger plot and whether Ludveck controls Crimea or not doesn't really mean much since he still would've ended up in the war, just maybe on the opposite side. All the laguz royals just get replaced by the next strongest. Really the only characters that are especially vital to the sequence of events are Sephiran for orchestrating everything, Micaiah for rallying Daein, and the BK for saving Miccy. Most everyone else just gets replaced by someone that might not be as fit for the role, but works well enough. Then again, that's basically life, so I guess it's appropriate.

Elincia provided a good fourth to the combined army during the final chapters of part 3 and also prevented begnion from attacking galia directly, contributions regardless of how small can make enormous differences, if the bulk of the fighting occured at the crimea/galia border micaiah would have not had any reason to be near the medallion.

[bottlegnomes]

58 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Crimea falling to Ludveck would have had a major impact on the world, depending on Ludvecks's actions in the war. It very easily could have resulted in the Liberation Army not getting to Begnion via Daein, which would have meant no battle against Micaiah and thus no awakening of Ashera via the Galdr of Release which (ostensibly) would have made Ashera worse (or could possibly have woken Ashera without waking Yune in which case everyone would have been absolutely screwed).

I don't actually recall the reasoning for Miccy awakening Yune, but while it did give the impression of being the better alternative, did anything actually address that?

56 minutes ago, thecrimsonflash said:

Elincia provided a good fourth to the combined army during the final chapters of part 3 and also prevented begnion from attacking galia directly, contributions regardless of how small can make enormous differences, if the bulk of the fighting occured at the crimea/galia border micaiah would have not had any reason to be near the medallion.

Are you sure about a fourth? I don't know if it's outright stated, but it's pretty strongly implied that Crimea has the weakest military of the lot, and the combined armies of Sanaki's half of Begnion, Gallia, and Phoenecis seems like it'd be quite a bit more than triple (75% vs 25%) the army of a still-recovering nation that was prior to its upheaval the weakest military.

Anyway, going back to secondary effects, would Ike dying have meant Soren sticking around to think up all the strategies that let the LA get as far as they did? He didn't exactly seem fond of any of the other GMs and Titania's a very competent deputy commander, but she's definitely not on Soren's level of tactical thinking. Would the LA have even gotten far enough that Begnion would've felt compelled to pull Daein in?

[thecrimsonflash]

20 hours ago, bottlegnomes said:

I don't actually recall the reasoning for Miccy awakening Yune, but while it did give the impression of being the better alternative, did anything actually address that?

Are you sure about a fourth? I don't know if it's outright stated, but it's pretty strongly implied that Crimea has the weakest military of the lot, and the combined armies of Sanaki's half of Begnion, Gallia, and Phoenecis seems like it'd be quite a bit more than triple (75% vs 25%) the army of a still-recovering nation that was prior to its upheaval the weakest military.

Anyway, going back to secondary effects, would Ike dying have meant Soren sticking around to think up all the strategies that let the LA get as far as they did? He didn't exactly seem fond of any of the other GMs and Titania's a very competent deputy commander, but she's definitely not on Soren's level of tactical thinking. Would the LA have even gotten far enough that Begnion would've felt compelled to pull Daein in?

Soren didn't give a crap what happened to the alliance, he only helped because Ike wanted him to, if Ike died I would also pull all the GMs out of this adventure, titania, mist, oscar, boyd and rolf would probably still be in crimea, with titania, oscar and boyd being in the royal army (this is the only logical choice after such circumstances as oscar and titania were part of crimea's army in the past) and due to crimea being neutral, they would be unable to offer any support to the alliance, shinon and gatrie would not join, shinon does not like laguz and gatrie does whatever shinon does. 

The clear sign that the goddess was going to awaken was the herons and mist (basically agents of the force of order) fainting and the medallion's flame getting larger, yune was going to wake regardless of what happened and after micaiah woke her up, yune said that if micaiah had not sung the galdr of release they would not be speaking which implies a far worse outcome, they would have just skipped to ashera's second (third?) judgement which was destroying the world and starting over from the beginning, no turning people to stone just outright destruction.

[Acacia Sgt]

Oh, this is an interesting what-if scenario. Let's see...

I'd agree that what little was left to do in PoR is very unlikely to be affected with the loss of Ike. Yes, his loss would have an effect, but the war will go on. So likely any repercussions will only be really felt after it's over. I could even see Soren sticking out if only as a last deed to Ike, but afterwards is fair game.

Chapter 28 may or may not change much. Ena is still going to find out where Leanne is being held. Even if they can't get as many of the Beorc to help out without Ike, the Laguz are likely to make the strike on their own anyway. So Leanne gets saved either way.

As for Endgame and Ashnard... well, one of the downsides of having someone like Ike as the protagonist, downside for him that is, is that he can be replaced. That's one way his "unspecialness" can work against him. Taking other FE games, loosing people like Marth or Julia certianly make things harder to borderline impossible, but with Ike, it's not that case. Ragnell can still be wielded by someone else, so that plus Ena/Tibarn/Naesala/Giffca means Ashnard can still be taken down. Sure, whoever replaces Ike in wielding the sword may or may not have it as easy as him, likely having to need any of the Laguz's help, but it would still be done. Personally, I'd say it could've been Stefan. RD stablished it's canon he was recruited in PoR, and story-wise, he's one of the strongest swordsmen. Certainly equal or perhaps even stronger than Ike during PoR (if the Base Conversation of Stefan training Ike is any indication, which is also canon, since that's where Ike gets/learns Aether from a story-standpoint).

As it is, it's afterwards when things will begin to deviate. The GM's may or may not fragment, but Soren would certainly leave. I see him accepting Stefan's offer, and leaving with him for the Gran Desert to be with the other Branded. That's about the only outcome I see of him if Ike was out of the picture. Personally, I think the Mercs may stick together, even Shinon. About the only other one I could see leaving would be Mia. According to her dialogue in PoR's ending, it sounds like she's only staying because of Ike, so without him, she might not stick around. She could be back to searching her so called destined rival, as it is. So either back as a freelance mercenary, or perhaps she notices Lucia may or may not be said rival and enrolls into Crimea's army. Who knows.

Anyway, RD Parts 1 and 2 likely don't go through big changes. I don't see Zelgius/BK changing that much with Ike gone. Heck, he would not forget Mist is still around. Even if she isn't as dedicated to the sword as Greil and Ike were, as a Branded, Zelgius can wait out to see if Mist ever has children of her own, and if at least one takes up that path. So, he would still arrive to save Micaiah on schedule. As for Part 2, the only thing that could change is Lucia's rescue. Even if the Mercs disband, nothing says Bastian can't hire other mercs, or put aside some loyalists. The only vital thing needed is a good enough archer to cut the rope, so it's not like it's something only Shinon can do.

Part 3 is where things may get interesting. Even if the Mercs are still around and hired, without Soren they're not going to be as succesful at first. The thing is, though, is that Begnion repelling the invasion much quicker than in canon may not sit well with Sephiran, who needs the war to escalate. Depending on when exactly he was arrested, he could actually subtly sabotage Begnion's war effort, either directly or through Zelgius or other underlings. That way, the Laguz make a big enough foothold, Begnion calls in Daein and is riled enough to pursue, provoking Crimea as well, and so things are set in line. Once again, the Laguz+Crimea push may not go as well with or without the Ike-less mercs, but once again strings can be pulled so Daein has trouble pushing them back, prolonging and intensifying the chaos so Ashera wakens.

Where things definitely get interesting is with the galdr. THe key point here is if the medallion is even involved in the war. If the mercs don't participate, either disbanded or not, then Mist and the medallion won't be near for both Sanaki and Micaiah to enact the galdr. Yune was shown to "speak" from within the medallion. It certainy did with Mist and Micaiah, at least. So, perhaps no matter where Mist is, Yune could still speak to her about the galdr. It all depends if they have the time to gather and for the galdr to be sung before it's too late. IT all depends just how close Ashera is to awake. In RD itself, the galdr did, so hard to say just how close they were to awake her without it. Assuming Mist and the galdr are in the war to begin with, or can arrive and meet with Sanaki and Micaiah, then Part 3 won't end much differently. Now, assuming the galdr is not sun in time, and only Ashera wakes and passes judgement, well, some people will avoid petrification like in canon. Some like the merchants may not since it was only due to being in the building that Yune protects. Depending how things can go, Yune may still be released if Mist, Sanaki, and Micaiah avoid the petrification without Yune's help. Mist and Micaiah at least would've been told by Yune to sing the galdr, so they might seek each other out, and with Sanaki, they can sing the galdr.

Part 4 is the biggest deviation depending if the galdr was sung or not. If Yune is still trapped, Ashera might not even bother with the survivors. After all, they're few (discounting the branded as she has no idea of them, and they might not even be as numerous anyway), powerless to defy her, and unlikely to repopulate and be a bother again. So she can wait for them to die out. If Yune was freed, or everybody can be rallied to search for the medallion and sing the galdr, then Part 4 may go mostly as the game. Ashera revives enough Begnion troops and the Senators to form the Disciples of Order, Yune protects and instruct people to head for the tower, and all that stuff. Now, assuming we still have a Tower climbing like the game, the big issue is how to struck down Ashera. Well, again, Ike's lack of specialness means Yune can simply find someone else to pour power into to deal the final blow. So Ashera can still be taken down. Perhaps not as easy, perhaps it can be, but it doesn't become outright impossible.

Personally, my conclusion on the matter is that Ike is only important to define where the Medallion could be the moment the war becomes bad enough to wake Ashera. If the Medallion is still near, then things don't really change. If the Medallion isn't near, at best the survivors only seek it out to free Yune. The only outright bad outcome is if either of Sanaki or Micaiah get petrified since Yune isn't there to guarantee their safety. Personally, I don't belive so. They would both be certainly strong enough. Heck, if you consider that from a story-standpoint, even people like Meg avoid the petrification, who wouldn't be as strong in comparison from a story-standpoint. Other than that potentially bad outcome, that may not even be a concern,, Ike is actually kinda superflous to the bigger picture. That's my conclusion, in any case.

Edited June 4, 2018 by Acacia Sgt

[Icelerate]

2 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Where things definitely get interesting is with the galdr. THe key point here is if the medallion is even involved in the war. If the mercs don't participate, either disbanded or not, then Mist and the medallion won't be near for both Sanaki and Micaiah to enact the galdr. Yune was shown to "speak" from within the medallion. It certainy did with Mist and Micaiah, at least. So, perhaps no matter where Mist is, Yune could still speak to her about the galdr. It all depends if they have the time to gather and for the galdr to be sung before it's too late. IT all depends just how close Ashera is to awake. In RD itself, the galdr did, so hard to say just how close they were to awake her without it. Assuming Mist and the galdr are in the war to begin with, or can arrive and meet with Sanaki and Micaiah, then Part 3 won't end much differently. Now, assuming the galdr is not sun in time, and only Ashera wakes and passes judgement, well, some people will avoid petrification like in canon. Some like the merchants may not since it was only due to being in the building that Yune protects. Depending how things can go, Yune may still be released if Mist, Sanaki, and Micaiah avoid the petrification without Yune's help. Mist and Micaiah at least would've been told by Yune to sing the galdr, so they might seek each other out, and with Sanaki, they can sing the galdr.

 

At the end of PoR, Mist handed over the medalion to the herons. So there's no reason why the medalion would be with Mist. 

[Acacia Sgt]

2 hours ago, Icelerate said:

At the end of PoR, Mist handed over the medalion to the herons. So there's no reason why the medalion would be with Mist. 

Ah, I see. I had forgotten about that detail.

In that case, then much better for the protagonists. The Medallion then is likely to be unchanged in its whereabouts by the time the big chaotic battle happens. The only issue would be that in the chance that Mist isn't there, there'd be no one in the Laguz side for Yune to talk to, as I believe Mist only heard her while touching the medallion. On the other hand, there's still Micaiah, so she can relay what Yune says. It's not like she can't make her case. Considering she managed to enter the room they were without being alerted until she spoke, she can always say something to grab their attention to hear her out, like she did in the game.

[thecrimsonflash]

10 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Oh, this is an interesting what-if scenario. Let's see...

I'd agree that what little was left to do in PoR is very unlikely to be affected with the loss of Ike. Yes, his loss would have an effect, but the war will go on. So likely any repercussions will only be really felt after it's over. I could even see Soren sticking out if only as a last deed to Ike, but afterwards is fair game.

Chapter 28 may or may not change much. Ena is still going to find out where Leanne is being held. Even if they can't get as many of the Beorc to help out without Ike, the Laguz are likely to make the strike on their own anyway. So Leanne gets saved either way.

As for Endgame and Ashnard... well, one of the downsides of having someone like Ike as the protagonist, downside for him that is, is that he can be replaced. That's one way his "unspecialness" can work against him. Taking other FE games, loosing people like Marth or Julia certianly make things harder to borderline impossible, but with Ike, it's not that case. Ragnell can still be wielded by someone else, so that plus Ena/Tibarn/Naesala/Giffca means Ashnard can still be taken down. Sure, whoever replaces Ike in wielding the sword may or may not have it as easy as him, likely having to need any of the Laguz's help, but it would still be done. Personally, I'd say it could've been Stefan. RD stablished it's canon he was recruited in PoR, and story-wise, he's one of the strongest swordsmen. Certainly equal or perhaps even stronger than Ike during PoR (if the Base Conversation of Stefan training Ike is any indication, which is also canon, since that's where Ike gets/learns Aether from a story-standpoint).

As it is, it's afterwards when things will begin to deviate. The GM's may or may not fragment, but Soren would certainly leave. I see him accepting Stefan's offer, and leaving with him for the Gran Desert to be with the other Branded. That's about the only outcome I see of him if Ike was out of the picture. Personally, I think the Mercs may stick together, even Shinon. About the only other one I could see leaving would be Mia. According to her dialogue in PoR's ending, it sounds like she's only staying because of Ike, so without him, she might not stick around. She could be back to searching her so called destined rival, as it is. So either back as a freelance mercenary, or perhaps she notices Lucia may or may not be said rival and enrolls into Crimea's army. Who knows.

Anyway, RD Parts 1 and 2 likely don't go through big changes. I don't see Zelgius/BK changing that much with Ike gone. Heck, he would not forget Mist is still around. Even if she isn't as dedicated to the sword as Greil and Ike were, as a Branded, Zelgius can wait out to see if Mist ever has children of her own, and if at least one takes up that path. So, he would still arrive to save Micaiah on schedule. As for Part 2, the only thing that could change is Lucia's rescue. Even if the Mercs disband, nothing says Bastian can't hire other mercs, or put aside some loyalists. The only vital thing needed is a good enough archer to cut the rope, so it's not like it's something only Shinon can do.

Part 3 is where things may get interesting. Even if the Mercs are still around and hired, without Soren they're not going to be as succesful at first. The thing is, though, is that Begnion repelling the invasion much quicker than in canon may not sit well with Sephiran, who needs the war to escalate. Depending on when exactly he was arrested, he could actually subtly sabotage Begnion's war effort, either directly or through Zelgius or other underlings. That way, the Laguz make a big enough foothold, Begnion calls in Daein and is riled enough to pursue, provoking Crimea as well, and so things are set in line. Once again, the Laguz+Crimea push may not go as well with or without the Ike-less mercs, but once again strings can be pulled so Daein has trouble pushing them back, prolonging and intensifying the chaos so Ashera wakens.

Where things definitely get interesting is with the galdr. THe key point here is if the medallion is even involved in the war. If the mercs don't participate, either disbanded or not, then Mist and the medallion won't be near for both Sanaki and Micaiah to enact the galdr. Yune was shown to "speak" from within the medallion. It certainy did with Mist and Micaiah, at least. So, perhaps no matter where Mist is, Yune could still speak to her about the galdr. It all depends if they have the time to gather and for the galdr to be sung before it's too late. IT all depends just how close Ashera is to awake. In RD itself, the galdr did, so hard to say just how close they were to awake her without it. Assuming Mist and the galdr are in the war to begin with, or can arrive and meet with Sanaki and Micaiah, then Part 3 won't end much differently. Now, assuming the galdr is not sun in time, and only Ashera wakes and passes judgement, well, some people will avoid petrification like in canon. Some like the merchants may not since it was only due to being in the building that Yune protects. Depending how things can go, Yune may still be released if Mist, Sanaki, and Micaiah avoid the petrification without Yune's help. Mist and Micaiah at least would've been told by Yune to sing the galdr, so they might seek each other out, and with Sanaki, they can sing the galdr.

Part 4 is the biggest deviation depending if the galdr was sung or not. If Yune is still trapped, Ashera might not even bother with the survivors. After all, they're few (discounting the branded as she has no idea of them, and they might not even be as numerous anyway), powerless to defy her, and unlikely to repopulate and be a bother again. So she can wait for them to die out. If Yune was freed, or everybody can be rallied to search for the medallion and sing the galdr, then Part 4 may go mostly as the game. Ashera revives enough Begnion troops and the Senators to form the Disciples of Order, Yune protects and instruct people to head for the tower, and all that stuff. Now, assuming we still have a Tower climbing like the game, the big issue is how to struck down Ashera. Well, again, Ike's lack of specialness means Yune can simply find someone else to pour power into to deal the final blow. So Ashera can still be taken down. Perhaps not as easy, perhaps it can be, but it doesn't become outright impossible.

Personally, my conclusion on the matter is that Ike is only important to define where the Medallion could be the moment the war becomes bad enough to wake Ashera. If the Medallion is still near, then things don't really change. If the Medallion isn't near, at best the survivors only seek it out to free Yune. The only outright bad outcome is if either of Sanaki or Micaiah get petrified since Yune isn't there to guarantee their safety. Personally, I don't belive so. They would both be certainly strong enough. Heck, if you consider that from a story-standpoint, even people like Meg avoid the petrification, who wouldn't be as strong in comparison from a story-standpoint. Other than that potentially bad outcome, that may not even be a concern,, Ike is actually kinda superflous to the bigger picture. That's my conclusion, in any case.

you don't seem to understand the logistics of the goddess awakening, first off, yune and ashera do not awaken independently of one another (if yune wakes, ashera wakes), second if yune (and in turn ashera) were to wake from anything other than the galdr of release, ashera would have just destroyed the world and started over again, the point of the galdr was not just to awaken yune, it was so that altina and lehran's descendants could awaken the goddess if they felt they were unable to keep their covenant so they could argue their side. 

Edited June 5, 2018 by thecrimsonflash

[Acacia Sgt]

11 minutes ago, thecrimsonflash said:

you don't seem to understand the logistics of the goddess awakening, first off, yune and ashera do not awaken independently of one another (if yune wakes, ashera wakes), second if yune (and in turn ashera) were to wake from anything other than the galdr of release, ashera would have just destroyed the world and started over again, the point of the galdr was not just to awaken yune, it was so that altina and lehran's descendants could awaken the goddess if they felt they were unable to keep their covenant so they could argue their side. 

It's just a hypothetical proven wrong if Ashera hadn't woke from the galdr. Besides, as already mentioned, things are still geared so they still are being awakened by the galdr (or released in Yune's case, since being able to "talk" from within the medallion means she has to be "awake"). So they wake, Ashera still acts without council, and Part 4 begins on schedule.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Acacia Sgt