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DefyingFates

Would you be happy with a "Let's Go" entry in the future?

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That's a weird title but I didn't know what to put that wouldn't be a paragraph by itself, my bad!

Anyway, for those who don't know, Let's Go Pikachu & Eevee are console games that hybridise OG!Pokemon and Pokemon GO mechanics into a simpler core title (I also just realised that was a palindrome), with Game Freak also announcing a "proper" entry next year that's more in-line with standard Pokemon. Now that we know Three Houses exists, would you be (more) accepting of FE17 skewing closer to FE Heroes?

P.S. I was planning this post back when this subforum was still titled "FE Switch," so if this is better suited for a general discussion forum please feel free to move it, dear mods!

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I would be interested. As in, I think it would be ace to have more Fire Emblem games in general, provided it doesn't cause the development team to become stretched thin.

However, it really depends on how it's handled.

Right now, we already have Echoes as a potential sub-series to re-introduce older games to newer generations--as well as previously Japanese-only games. Shadows of Valentia seemed to do pretty well without simplifying the mechanics too much, so I'm doubtful they'll go along that path. I'm also not too keen on, for example, simplifying Genealogy of the Holy War or Thracia 776, since the complexity is what made those games so fun.

Although, say, there was a Fire Emblem Heroes: Chronicles of Archanea or something, I reckon that could be a good way to re-introduce Marth to newer fans, especially since Shadow Dragon was kinda lackluster and failed to do its proper job.

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Sure. Apart from the obvious, Heroes isn't really unlike a standard FE game mechanically. It would be perfect for a FE Maker kind of game.

It probably wouldn't be FE17 unless Heroes runs out of steam by then.

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Let's Go as in a simplified remake aimed at the casual mobile audience? No way. I'd be very much opposed to that. They've already done enough with easier modes to try to accommodate casual players. If someone is SO casual that even normal/Phoenix mode is too complicated for them then they likely wouldn't ever migrate over to the main series even if you tried to ease them in with Let's Go. And it would just mean that future remakes wouldn't appeal to the people who would really appreciate them, that being the established fans.

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The whole Let’s Go format doesn’t lend itself well to Fire Emblem. Compared to Pokémon, Fire Emblem is still a super niche franchise Awakening did a good enough job attracting newcomers and they’re used to the gameplay style now. Simplifying the mechanics will only piss everyone off.

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1 hour ago, Baldrick said:

...Did people just read the title or something?

Yes. It's a common thing within fandoms.

 


To weigh in on this one, I have no strong feelings one way or the other. If I were to go off my nostalgia, I'd say that I'd rather have another GBA-style Fire Emblem. If I were to go with how I feel about newer games, I'd say what I saw in the trailer of FE16 gives me what I want in future fire emblem games. But logically, making a fire emblem spinoff that makes it closer to heroes without making it heroes on a console would be a great way to get new people who only play heroes take a step towards the main series. So while it would be great for the series, I'm neither for or against it.

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I’m with Book Bro. I think devoting an entire game to doing even more to try and accommodate casual players at this point makes little sense artistically or financially. It’ll just cheapen the experience and have drastically diminishing returns since there are very few potential fans remaining that the current accessibility features weren’t enough for.

So yeah, creating an even more simple experience isn’t a good idea, especially since I believe they already made a huge mistake reaching out to casual players in a way that would discourage, rather than encourage, integrating them into the core fan base, thus creating this split.

Casual mode was a mistake. If they wanted to add a feature to appeal to the people permadeath scared, it should’ve been something like the turnwheel, not a near immunity to the game’s fail state. The safety net should teach the player to learn from their mistakes, not weaponize them. Permadeath with rewinds means the player still has to figure out how to do something without losing units, thus preparing them for classic. Casual... does not.

Edited by Alastor15243

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You mean like Sacred Stones? ?

In all seriousness, if we take Let's Go's stated intentions, a Fire Emblem "Let's Go" would be something like: smaller maps, lower deployment counts, more streamlined unit customisation; removal or alteration of gacha mechanics; addition of coop.

I think something with more substantial gameplay than Heroes, a proper story; and the inclusion of coop, would be amazing, especially on a great multiplayer system like the Switch. If they added proper hotseat PvP as well, we could have a really great entry-level/multiplayer game.

I can already see the potential to entice my friends to Fire Emblem. The shareable nature of the system and coop features of the games have been great fun at uni.

 

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Yes, I'll play anything Fire Emblem related. Could probably even make two versions like in Pokemon. Something like (Fire Emblem: Let's Go To War) and (Fire Emblem: Let's Go Make Some Babies). Cater both sides of the fanbase. 

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3 minutes ago, halvey said:

(Fire Emblem: Let's Go To War) and (Fire Emblem: Let's Go Make Some Babies).

these are two very different things, I'm pretty sure they would have different ratings altogether.

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41 minutes ago, halvey said:

Yes, I'll play anything Fire Emblem related. Could probably even make two versions like in Pokemon. Something like (Fire Emblem: Let's Go To War) and (Fire Emblem: Let's Go Make Some Babies). Cater both sides of the fanbase. 

Fire Emblem Make Love and Fire Emblem Make War.

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Unless Heroes stops existing by the time FE17 comes out, I'll say no. There are already means to make your play experience more casual in the main series.

On 6/13/2018 at 8:08 PM, VincentASM said:

Right now, we already have Echoes as a potential sub-series

Apologies if this comes across as nitpicking, but would "Echoes" really be a "subseries" even if the naming convention was carried over for future remakes? When I think of "subseries" what comes to mind is a significant divergence either in theme or gameplay away from the mainline games. FE remakes aren't any more of a subseries than Pokemon Fire Red/Leaf Green was for Pokemon.

A series of games with simplified mechanics like Heroes would be more appropriate to call a subseries.

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On ‎13‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 5:00 PM, Alastor15243 said:

Casual mode was a mistake. If they wanted to add a feature to appeal to the people permadeath scared, it should’ve been something like the turnwheel, not a near immunity to the game’s fail state. The safety net should teach the player to learn from their mistakes, not weaponize them. Permadeath with rewinds means the player still has to figure out how to do something without losing units, thus preparing them for classic. Casual... does not.

Here, I disagree. There is no need for people to play with permadeath, so no real need to force them to do so. Casual is fine for the people that want it and who are put off by the idea of their units dying. Honestly, if I hadn't started FE with FE7 and got used to permadeath, I'd probably stick with that (and even then, I still restart the chapter if my unit dies). I would like the Turnwheel added on top of that for the people who do want to dip their toes in the permadeath pool, though.

Phoenix mode was a step too far, in my opinion, since it took away any point of losing units, but I guess it was for those only interested in the characters and story.

 

As for the original query... I'd like Heroes to stick to being Heroes and mainline games to continue being more full fledged. That being said, if we could have a game that included characters from various places as a proper crossover, complete with supports, I would love that (like Warriors did, but actual Fire Emblem). That being said, they'd probably only pick the most popular characters and I'd end up bored again, so maybe better just to keep new characters.

I'd love more remakes, though... and an official translation of NMotE would be great for me (I don't care if other people don't like it - I enjoyed it on an emulator but am still sad it didn't get any kind of official release overseas).

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1 hour ago, Cute Chao said:

Here, I disagree. There is no need for people to play with permadeath, so no real need to force them to do so. 

Of course there’s a need for people to play on permadeath. It’s how you lose. The entire experinence was balanced around losing a unit meaning either a reset or a permanent crippling of your party. You can’t just get rid of that and make the “game over” state ten to fifteen times easier to avoid and expect the difficulty curve to still exist. With Casual mode, especially now that not even losing the protagonist gives you an automatic game over, unless you are making breathtakingly terrible decisions every single turn, you will never see the game over screen.

If they replaced Casual mode with Turnwheel mode, A: it would be a safety net that doesn’t eliminate the need to make the same decisions as Classic, and rather would just give you more chances to make those decisions, and B; it would keep the turnwheel out of classic mode and thus the rather uncomfortable situations of the protagonists canonically having the story-breaking power to rewind time and the game’s uncomfortable tendency to pretend the turnwheel is a totally balanced feature that shouldn’t disqualify you from winning achievements would both be avoided.

Edited by Alastor15243

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If you want to discuss the merits of casual mode for the Nth time, make a new thread for it.

Heroes is simplified in that there's no RNG in battles, growth rates, and smaller maps; unlike Let's Go, the gameplay is still the same. For a player that starts with Heroes, there's plenty of incentive to work towards playing Classic-style without being too punishing if you don't. That said, the format isn't really suitable for a full-length mainline FE game.

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On 6/13/2018 at 5:54 AM, DefyingFates said:

would you be (more) accepting of FE17 skewing closer to FE Heroes?

Uhhh, no. I wouldn't accept that at all.

I'd be fine with a spin-off being something like that, but I wouldn't accept a mainline FE being that, unless somehow they do what the Pokemon devs did and explicitly state that FE18 was coming right after, and would appease core fans.

As it stands, Heroes is making boatloads of money. Keep Heroes as Heroes, keep mainline FEs as something else entirely.

Edited by Slumber

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On 6/13/2018 at 5:54 AM, DefyingFates said:

 Now that we know Three Houses exists, would you be (more) accepting of FE17 skewing closer to FE Heroes?

Even though, Pokemon Let's Go! is stated by the developers to be a "core series" game. I myself am hesitant to call it a part of Gen 7 or to say it's actually more than a glorified Kanto spin-off (not that that's a bad thing).

I'd have the same thoughts toward a simplified FE. Just like TMS, Heroes and Warriors aren't considered FE 15/17/118, I wouldn't consider this type of Fire Emblem to be a main entry in the series.

On 6/13/2018 at 6:08 AM, VincentASM said:

I would be interested. As in, I think it would be ace to have more Fire Emblem games in general, provided it doesn't cause the development team to become stretched thin.

However, it really depends on how it's handled.

Right now, we already have Echoes as a potential sub-series to re-introduce older games to newer generations--as well as previously Japanese-only games. Shadows of Valentia seemed to do pretty well without simplifying the mechanics too much, so I'm doubtful they'll go along that path. I'm also not too keen on, for example, simplifying Genealogy of the Holy War or Thracia 776, since the complexity is what made those games so fun.

Although, say, there was a Fire Emblem Heroes: Chronicles of Archanea or something, I reckon that could be a good way to re-introduce Marth to newer fans, especially since Shadow Dragon was kinda lackluster and failed to do its proper job.

Basically this. Separate enough from the main titles that it doesn't hinder the development of core Fire Emblem but still adds something fresh and interesting to people who haven't played the older games. 

 

I'd be really interested if they were able to integrate multiplayer into an FE spin-off like they're doing in Pokemon Let's Go!

Edited by Quiyonce

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The closest thing they should do to this is a multiplayer-oriented FE game for Switch.  The battles in FE Heroes are more chess-like, and would be well-suited to player-vs-player.  A compromise between mainline FE and FE Heroes gameplay (in both movement distances and battle mechanics) would be best for a PvP-oriented FE.

The only question is how units would be recruited.  Perhaps copying units recruited in mainline games?  But that wouldn't work if the mechanics are different, as units would require different stats.

I would be happy with the mainline FE going one step closer to Heroes in how battles work, but still closer to previous FE.  I would reduce the movement distances in mainline FE by just one step as it increases the importance of unit placement.  I also like that the Skills in Heroes are more strategy-oriented, while in Awakening (and probably others) they're mostly just attack modifiers that activate when you don't expect.

But mainline FE should not take anything from the metagame in FE Heroes.

Edited by Electric-Gecko

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A Heroes's port to switch could be interesting ( Especially if you're a player who can't spend money on your cell phone, but can on switch. ) But instead of making it easier like Let's Go, it becomes harder? ( Think of it as Heroes, but more focus on veteran players who loves Heroes gameplay but miss the actual game from the main series. ) You could link your account to have your Heroes shared between versions, and like Let's Go, you could sent between versions to recieve  gifts.

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