Who do you want to see as Echo characters?

[Baron the Shining Blade]

1 hour ago, Troykv said:

I understand your point...

But I still think Black Knight would look weird with Ike's animations xDU

He doesn't have to share all of Ike's animations. Look at Daisy. While she shares some of Peach's animation, Daisy has new animations which help her stand out as the more adventurous, tomboyish princess.

[Erren]

Echos I would like to see:

Grey Fox (Metal Gear Solid)

think about it, he could be a cross echo of Shulk and ZSS. If not Grey Fox, then:

Revolver Ocelot (as he appears in MGS5) 

Ocelot could be the perfect Snake clone. They basically have the same moves. It’s not like we’re getting Liquid...

Ishtar (Fire Emblem)

Another cross echo idea, only this time using Zelda and Robin. If they’re going to get new representations for smash that doesn’t have sword users, this is the one!

Bubble Bobble Characters

These two could easily be Ice Climber echos. They bear the same movesets, only these guys use bubbles and other things instead of hammers.

Sora (Kingdom Hearts)

An echo of Lucas and Cloud (appropriately). This has been one highly requested character.

Jin Kazama (Tekken)

Easily a Ryu Echo, and his final smash could be his Devil Jin form, which would play like Ridley.

Mr. Sandman (Punch Out)

Appropriately, a Little Mac clone. His final smash could be similar to Bowser’s new Giga Bowser, only he uses the Dreamland Express.

Galacta Knight (Kirby)

Meta Knight Echo. Plain and simple.

[Hecatia]

1 hour ago, Erren said:

Echos I would like to see:

Grey Fox (Metal Gear Solid)

think about it, he could be a cross echo of Shulk and ZSS. If not Grey Fox, then:

Revolver Ocelot (as he appears in MGS5) 

Ocelot could be the perfect Snake clone. They basically have the same moves. It’s not like we’re getting Liquid...

Ishtar (Fire Emblem)

Another cross echo idea, only this time using Zelda and Robin. If they’re going to get new representations for smash that doesn’t have sword users, this is the one!

Bubble Bobble Characters

These two could easily be Ice Climber echos. They bear the same movesets, only these guys use bubbles and other things instead of hammers.

Sora (Kingdom Hearts)

An echo of Lucas and Cloud (appropriately). This has been one highly requested character.

Jin Kazama (Tekken)

Easily a Ryu Echo, and his final smash could be his Devil Jin form, which would play like Ridley.

Mr. Sandman (Punch Out)

Appropriately, a Little Mac clone. His final smash could be similar to Bowser’s new Giga Bowser, only he uses the Dreamland Express.

Galacta Knight (Kirby)

Meta Knight Echo. Plain and simple.

I think only Galacta Knight could be possible from that list, but I wish for Ishtar and Mr. Sandman... And maybe Sora, because he appeared on more Nintendo consoles than Cloud!
NIGHT NIGHT!

[Lord_Brand]

7 hours ago, Erren said:

Sora (Kingdom Hearts)

 

An echo of Lucas and Cloud (appropriately). This has been one highly requested character.

Lucas? As in, Earthbound 3 Lucas? That's not how Echo Fighters work. An Echo Fighter has to be nearly identical in physique to the fighter they're an echo of, and they have to have the exact same moveset barring statistical tweaks and cosmetic changes. And I got news for you, Lucas ain't an Echo of Cloud nor vice versa.

And I don't think Sora would cut it as a Cloud echo either; the Keyblade is too different from the Buster Sword in size, shape, and weight (and you're kidding yourself if you think they'd use any Keyblade other than the Kingdom, it's the most iconic Keyblade). Now Fierce Deity Link or Magnus, they could be Cloud echoes. Sora would more likely be a Link or Shulk echo, and even then I think they'd rather give him a more unique moveset.

[Florete]

There's no way in hell Sora would get in as a clone. And that goes for any 3rd party character from a new franchise.

Honestly, the whole idea of characters echoing someone from a different series is most likely not going to happen. Ganondorf was a one-time thing that happened over 15 years ago, Sakurai likely won't do it again.

[Erren]

19 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

Lucas? As in, Earthbound 3 Lucas? That's not how Echo Fighters work. An Echo Fighter has to be nearly identical in physique to the fighter they're an echo of, and they have to have the exact same moveset barring statistical tweaks and cosmetic changes. And I got news for you, Lucas ain't an Echo of Cloud nor vice versa.

And I don't think Sora would cut it as a Cloud echo either; the Keyblade is too different from the Buster Sword in size, shape, and weight (and you're kidding yourself if you think they'd use any Keyblade other than the Kingdom, it's the most iconic Keyblade). Now Fierce Deity Link or Magnus, they could be Cloud echoes. Sora would more likely be a Link or Shulk echo, and even then I think they'd rather give him a more unique moveset.

Fair.

[Light Strategist]

Emerl over literally everyone just because.

[Fabulously Olivier]

No one. I would prefer costumes over clones contributing to roster bloat.

[Cornguy]

I'm gonna say right now that I don't care one bit about equal representation between series. That being said, here we go;

• Echo for Ike: Black Knight. Warp powder up-B would negate the silliness of having BK use Aether, and teleportation moves require the bare minimum of animation. Aside from reasons obvious to anyone other than me and other FE character fanatics, the only issue I can see is that Ike is already a heavy hitter, so making BK hit harder could be troublesome. I think giving him slightly slower ground speed, much lower jumps with less control, hits a little harder, and is a lot harder to knock away is the way to go. He'd be like Ike with a metal box+a Mewtwo/Zelda up-B.
• Echo for Roy; Chrom or Alm. Either one works as a heavier Roy. None of Roy's moves are to exclusive to him, and Roy is fairly middle ground in terms of damage/speed, so this one's a safer venture than Ike/BK.
• Echo for Robin; Celica. Easy peasy, and if they've done away with custom moves, she can reuse some of Robin's alt moveset with new names. And instead of having limited tomes, Celica's would deal a bit of % to her. Strength/speed of the sword moves is open to debate I think, Robin's middle ground there, so even if you kept Celica in the middle, I think the different b-mechanics would be enough to differentiate them.

 

• Echo for Ness; Ninten. This one's purely for character representation. Like with Robin, if we're done with custom b-moves, you can use some of Ness' alts. I think Ninten might be slightly less portly than our boy Ness, so he could be quicker/lighter.

 

• Echo for Captain Falcon(/Ganondorf?); Black Shadow. Like Ninten, this one's mostly in the hope of F-Zero getting more love. Now that Ganondorf is further from the Cap, we can revisit the idea of a slower, harder hitting Falcon. I'm only familiar with F-Zero X and GX though, so some F-Zero lore out there I'm unaware of could shoot this idea straight down for all I know.

 

• Echo for Samus; Dark Samus. Pretty obvious, but one thing I think they should do is add the slashing damage type to her kicks. IIRC, DS in MP3 used kind of clawlike attacks, including kicks. Phazon weapons in place of most of Samus' other effects. Attributes up for debate, not sure if DS is any faster/ect than Samus.

 

Obviously these are all questionable in their own ways, but here are a few more that I consider much more questionable than the rest.

 

• Echo for Wolf or Falco, preferably Wolf; Panther. Why not?
• Echo for Toon Link; Vaati. This one works only if it isn't too much work to take away his shield, and change his b-moves to magic. They can and should remain functionally the same, but the bomb would be a magic orb, arrow could be lightning, and boomerang can be a gust. Again, this one could just be too much work, but I think it'd be pretty nice if they can pull it off.
• Echo for Palutena; Medusa or Hades. The alt b-moves would be great here, but even if they can't, I think this would be worthwhile. Hades might be a little too awkward using Palutena's moves, so Medusa works if that's the case. 
• Echo for Zelda; Hilda. If she was an alt color for Zelda, I wouldn't give this a second thought. She might just not be important enough for this though. But it's weird that they missed this obvious palette for Zelda.
• Echo for Edelgard; Hector. Now this is the one I'd feel most guilty for, and most happy for. I really want her to pull a Roy/Corrin here, and the icing on the cake would be getting Hector as well as an Echo.

Obvious ones not mentioned, Shadow and a Xenoblade character for Sonic and Shulk. I don't know enough about either of these games, but these seem like obvious good choices.

One last one that I want to kinda shoot down in case it hasn't been done already, is Ken. Now, I love Ken, and would be thrilled to see him. But Ryu actually has a few exclusive moves in Smash that Ken has never used. These include his forward smash, which is Ryu's mule kick from SF3, and his forward tilt, which is his forward m-punch from SSF2. The last one is probably the least important, and that's the focus attack. The animation for this attack is different between Ken and Ryu in SF4, but they're functionally the same, so it's the same thing with another animation, which is the equivalent of Echos using different taunts. I think asking for a Luigified Ryu is a little too much, but an Echo doesn't do Ken justice. If 2.5 moves was still Echo territory, Doc would be an Echo Fighter.

I'm sad to see a few people still don't like the Echo/clone concept. I think Lucina and Dark Pit were Echos done wrong, just for being too similar to their originals, but when they're more statistically/mechanically different, they're completely different characters. If someone gave me the opportunity to go back in time, and remove Falco, Ganondorf, Pichu, Doc, Young Link and Roy from Melee for 2-3 new characters, I'd say no. If that were even how it works, which it doesn't.

That was a long one, thanks to anyone who tolerated reading all that jargon. All the abbreviation in Dark Samus' paragraph is bugging me, but it's also funny so I'll leave it alone.

[Lord_Brand]

Wouldn't Eliwood make sense as a heavier Roy Echo?

[Anomalocaris]

9 hours ago, Cornguy said:

Obvious ones not mentioned, Shadow and a Xenoblade character for Sonic and Shulk. I don't know enough about either of these games, but these seem like obvious good choices.

There is one character in Xenoblade 2 who could make for a good Shulk echo, albeit a spoiler.

Spoiler

Malos, the game's villain, uses a Monado like Shulk's once he regains his full power, as shown in this boss battle. He could be a slower and bulkier version of Shulk, with a few different attack properties; Backslash could be renamed Striker Edge, and do more damage but lose the extra damage for back attack, while Air Slash could be modified into Monado Cyclone.

 

[DisobeyedCargo]

9 minutes ago, Anomalocaris said:

There is one character in Xenoblade 2 who could make for a good Shulk echo, albeit a spoiler.

  Reveal hidden contents

Malos, the game's villain, uses a Monado like Shulk's once he regains his full power, as shown in this boss battle. He could be a slower and bulkier version of Shulk, with a few different attack properties; Backslash could be renamed Striker Edge, and do more damage but lose the extra damage for back attack, while Air Slash could be modified into Monado Cyclone.

 

I'd argue that they wouldn't do that for spoiler reasons but the changes to  Shulks final smash throw that argument out the window 

but yeah I agree I could completely see that as a possibility 

Edited July 4, 2018 by DisobeyedCargo

[thecrimsonflash]

42 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

I'd argue that they wouldn't do that for spoiler reasons but the changes to  Shulks final smash throw that argument out the window 

but yeah I agree I could completely see that as a possibility 

smash 4's trophies prove that they don't care about spoilers, I have never played xenoblade chronicles and even I know what happens to fiora.

[DisobeyedCargo]

5 hours ago, thecrimsonflash said:

smash 4's trophies prove that they don't care about spoilers, I have never played xenoblade chronicles and even I know what happens to fiora.

That's uh 

 

unfortunate 

[Scoot]

What about Tetra as an echo for Toon Link? Fans have wanted her in the game for years.

[DisobeyedCargo]

4 minutes ago, Scoot said:

What about Tetra as an echo for Toon Link? Fans have wanted her in the game for years.

Wouldn't she work better as a Zelda echo since 

spoilers

Spoiler

She kinda is Zelda?

 

[Scoot]

2 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

Wouldn't she work better as a Zelda echo since 

spoilers

  Reveal hidden contents

She kinda is Zelda?

 

Story-wise that would make the most sense,  but she's around the same size as TL and could use a similar move set. Just swap out the Master Sword for a cutlass and maybe a slingshot or pistol instead of a bow.

[Cornguy]

On 7/4/2018 at 8:07 PM, Scoot said:

Story-wise that would make the most sense,  but she's around the same size as TL and could use a similar move set. Just swap out the Master Sword for a cutlass and maybe a slingshot or pistol instead of a bow.

I would kinda dig it. Would rather she not have a hookshot though, for both thematic reasons and tether grabs kinda sucking. Not sure if that's disqualification for an echo or not. It would be 5 characters with a spin attack up-b though, if you include Mii fighters. Not that I'd really mind, we also have 8 characters with a counter down-b.

[Faustino]

Big Boss for Snake. Probably won't happen though.

[Scoot]

23 hours ago, Faustino said:

Big Boss for Snake. Probably won't happen though.

BB (MGS3/Naked Snake version) could be an alternate costume for Snake (seeing as they're practically identical), but Venom Snake would make a nice echo. Someone else mentioned swapping the Nikita missiles for ROCKET FIST and I'd like to see that too.

Also Liquid. It's possible, considering they already have the voice actor on hand for M!Corrin.

[thecrimsonflash]

2 hours ago, Scoot said:

BB (MGS3/Naked Snake version) could be an alternate costume for Snake (seeing as they're practically identical), but Venom Snake would make a nice echo. Someone else mentioned swapping the Nikita missiles for ROCKET FIST and I'd like to see that too.

Also Liquid. It's possible, considering they already have the voice actor on hand for M!Corrin.

I would love to hear Venom shouting ROCKET PUNCH every 8 seconds during a match. holy crap, then he could have the hand of jehuty for his grab, he would be so broken with that, he would be like lucas to ness.

[Lord_Brand]

How about Ken for Ryu? :V

[dmurr]

I'm pretty confident we'll get at least a couple of the following:

Dark Samus echo of Samus

Chrom echo of Ike

Impa echo of Sheik

Dixie Kong echo of Diddy Kong

Isabelle echo of Villager

 

Less confident on, but I think are possible are:

Black Shadow echo of C. Falcon

Ninten echo of Ness

Funky Kong echo of Donkey Kong

 

Won't get, but I would love:

Claus (Masked Man) echo of Lucas

Jody Summer (F-Zero) echo of Zero Suit Samus

 

I do not think that we'll get an echo character of a third party character. Negotiating the rights to a character and not representing them to the fullest doesn't seem like Sakurai.  A Fire Emblem character isn't really likely in general, but Chrom is a special case. Sakurai would be throwing the fans he'd teased in the previous game a bone, not to mention it's an easy add of a character (Ike) he generally seems fairly fond of. While Shadows of Valentia started development the same year as Smash Ultimate's plan was finalized, I don't think we'll see a character from it or another from Fates given the backlash Sakurai got for adding so many in Sm4sh, despite it being "strategic." 

Edited July 11, 2018 by dmurr

[Lord_Brand]

10 hours ago, dmurr said:

I do not think that we'll get an echo character of a third party character. Negotiating the rights to a character and not representing them to the fullest doesn't seem like Sakurai.

What if the 3rd party makes sense as an Echo? Like Ken for Ryu, Liquid Snake for Solid Snake, or Zack for Cloud?

[The_antithesis]

A couple of potential ideas:

Baby Mario&Luigi (Echo of Ice Climbers): Mainly due to the fact that the babies use hammers in a very similar fashion to the ice climbers in Mario and Luigi: Partners of Time.
Neutral special would be changed from ice shot to green shells. This move would gain increased range and damage at the cost of being unable to freeze opponents, and being slightly slower.
Down special would be changed from Blizzard to Fire Flowers, which would deal more damage at the cost of being unable to freeze enemies.
Final smash would be changed to Mix Flowers, because Mix Flowers are your ultimate attack in Partners of Time!

Wonder Red (Echo of Olimar): Due to the fact that both have the gimmick of being followed by 100 generic units which he uses to fight his foes.
Instead of having 5 different types of Pikmin, all of the citizens are equal in attributes. They would also be significantly stronger than Pikmin, though they would lose the ability to specialise.
Up special would be changed from winged Pikmin to unite hand, which would be a disjointed attack that rises upwards in a command grab, and be able to grab the ledge from afar. The hand will be larger the more citizens wonder red has.
Final smash will be changed from end of day to wonderful forever (the huge laser you can use if you have all 100 citizens in wonderful 101)