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Jedi

Who do you want to see as Echo characters?

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I'm all for Chrom being an echo fighter of Ike, but as far as FE echo fighters go, what would you think of having Eliwood as one of Roy? It'd certainly work well considering they're father and son, and Durandal could still have fire properties being that it's the Blazing Blade. Only problem is they look very similar to each other, it could cause confusion, in which case an alt may work better, even with Roy still having his Eliwood palette (give Eliwood a Roy palette then for the lols).

10 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Alm could work as a Roy Echo probably, just have his FS be the Duma stab.

Oh nonono. The Duma stab I could see working as a Side Smash or Down Smash, but his FS should definitely be Scendscale. And of course he's gotta be left-handed.

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I'm still not clear what the difference is between echo characters and semi clones, probably because none of the three appeared in the E3 demo. Is it purely aesthetic, or just what they want to call clones with extremely little differences from the original? I don't want gameplay differences period, I want them to be character skins with altered sound effects and voice over. 

Anyway, I want Proto Man. His appearance in Mega Man's Final Smash might deconfirm him, but he moves and behaves very similar to Mega Man. Dark Samus or SA-X would both be cool. I would have been pissed if the third Metroid rep ended up being ANOTHER Samus rather than a new character, but the Echo classification would have me on board now that Ridley's here. Old Man Ganondorf could be an echo. Insert Fire Emblem Lord Here could be grafted onto our existing swordies. I'm sure he'll be great. Plusle and Minun could be Echoes of Pichu. Just don't make them a tag team character like they were intended to be in Brawl. Or do. See if I care about Pichu becoming redundant. Pokemon fans seem to want one pokemon to represent each generation and this would be my third gen pick. I want a Sam Fisher Echo of Snake. Nintendo's pretty tight with Ubisoft so I'm sure they wouldn't mind. And Sam Fisher knowing Snake is canon. Also other versions of Snake would be easy to implement. I want a Ms Pac-Man alt of of Pac-Man. And I want a Boshi alt of Yoshi.

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38 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Celica can easily be an Echo Character of Robin but Alm being one of Link woudn't work because Alm doesn't throw bombs.

I always imagine the down special being replaced with Windsweep (specially effective on characters trying to use a counter special but weaker otherwise), though I imagine it may be enough to make him not an echo character in the same way Dr. Mario and Roy aren't echoes of Mario and Marth, respectively

37 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Alm could work as a Roy Echo probably, just have his FS be the Duma stab.

Personal opinion: I think we already have enough Marth-esue characters.  Unopinionated: It would work well,  especially with double lion as the side-special (Roy) rather than side-smash (Link) when considering the characters from FE so far.

Edited by Arcphoenix

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6 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

I'm still not clear what the difference is between echo characters and semi clones, probably because none of the three appeared in the E3 demo. Is it purely aesthetic, or just what they want to call clones with extremely little differences from the original? I don't want gameplay differences period, I want them to be character skins with altered sound effects and voice over.

As far as I can tell, echo fighters have identical movesets with different properties (as Lucina and Dark Pit were in Smash 4), while semi clones are based on another character but have enough differences to not be considered full clones.

Though it makes me wonder why Mario in a doctor's outfit had more effort put into making him unique than... well, Lucina, a character who isn't just Mario in a doctor's outfit.

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9 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

I'm still not clear what the difference is between echo characters and semi clones, probably because none of the three appeared in the E3 demo. Is it purely aesthetic, or just what they want to call clones with extremely little differences from the original? I don't want gameplay differences period, I want them to be character skins with altered sound effects and voice over.

From what I remember hearing, echo characters share size, weight, speed (ground and air), and the majority of the moveset. Toon/Young Link, Pichu, and Dr. Mario differ in at least one of those areas, so they aren't echoes.

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Well, I thought of a character from Xenoblade 1 who could use the monado.... it might be a bit of a spoiler, but judging from the updated Shulk Final Smash, they don't seem to care too much about spoilers

Spoiler

Alvis

Or they could have Dunban, and his Final Smash calls out Mumkhar and Dickson.

 

I'd also like to see:

Zach for Cloud

Ken for Ryu

Jeanne for Bayonetta

Shadow for Sonic

 

*maybe* MGS 2 Raiden for Snake?

Edited by DarkDestr0yer61

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I’d die happy if Shadow was included as an echo, considering he’s one of my favorite characters. I hope his moves aren’t too generic, because it’d be an utter waste of potential given how he’s known for his chaos powers and whatnot. 

Maybe Decidueye might be a Greninja echo?? A bit of a stretch, I know, but it would be kinda odd to have Gen 7 be left for just Pokeball, and the Rowlet line was the most popular for the starters. Plus there’s Pokken.

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1 hour ago, DisobeyedCargo said:
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Arent the Aegis's monados though? What with Ontos most likely being Alvis, Malos HAVING a monado, and Mythra granting Foresight, along with many other hints the game throws at you?

 

Plus Rex can use monado arts thanks to shulk being available to use in challenge mode

 

It seems like Alvis/Ontos got the best of both, whil Malos only has arts while Mythra only has foresight (and a far more limited, bullet-time version at that)

I've seen Jeanne brought up as one for Bayonetta, which would work as her whole point was being a "mirror match rival" for Bayonetta gameplay wise.

Really, I have no strong feelings or attachments towards who I expect-- someone already plagiarized all my theories and stuck them here ;):

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Daisy is already in the game, so I suppose I'd want to see...

Eliwood, Chrom, or Celica: Eliwood could work as a Roy echo, Chrom as an Ike echo, and Celica as a Robin echo. I'd only want to see ONE of them, though, I don't want half the FE Smash cast to be clones!

Ninten: Ness and Lucas already play similarly, but they aren't echoes of each other, so having Ninten as an echo of Ness could be a good excuse to have all three major Earthbound protagonists present.

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I'm going to echo (heh) what most everybody's been saying, though Jeanne and Octoling are the one's I'd like the most. Also, Big Boss or Liquid as an echo for Snake.

On the subject of Xenoblade, if they did add Rex as a new fighter I could see Addam being his echo.

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35 minutes ago, Scoot said:

On the subject of Xenoblade, if they did add Rex as a new fighter I could see Addam being his echo.

I'm not gonna rule out the possibility of Addam because Torna ~ The Golden Country was in development during the same time as the main game so Sakurai likely new about it. That being said, from what we've seen, Addam doesn't really use the Aegis Sword the way Rex used it. I'm not entirely opposed to Addam being a Rex echo as i am with Rex being a Shulk echo but i do think Addam is different enough that him being an echo wouldn't really be accurate.

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For Zelda, I can see Callista from The Last Story being a decent Echo choice. Micaiah/Julia from FE would also work.

For Bayonetta, Jeanne (from Bayonetta of course) is an obvious choice.

 

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I keep hearing people on sereneforest and other forums say this but do people actually think Celica could be an echo character for Robin? I mean yes, she fights with a sword and magic like Robin but her fighting style is still very different from the Robins since Celica is basically 'Marth with magic'. Especially since Robin's moveset in smash is suppose to represent weapon durability and Gaiden is the only game besides Fates to not have that mechanic so I feel Robin's moveset wouldn't fit her. Not only that but Celica doesn't even use tomes (besides in Heroes) nor is her sword known for using electricity. As much as I would love to see her playable in Smash I feel like they are going to pass on her and Celica will only show up as a regular trophy.

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Now that you mention it they didn't show off Robin's final smash, and their using PoR Ike, who happens to have a smaller build. Chrome to me doesn't look too far out now.

I think I'd like to see Black Shadow as a C. Falcon.

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To all of those who said Celicia should be Robin's echo fighter.

Sorry but I don't see it.

She's too different to Robin, yes she uses a sword and magic but that's about it. That's not even the same type of magic in the first place, she doesn't even use tomes because of Valm's magic.

If someone deserve to be Robin's echo fighter, it's Morgan.

Edited by Nym

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43 minutes ago, NSSKG151 said:

I keep hearing people on sereneforest and other forums say this but do people actually think Celica could be an echo character for Robin? I mean yes, she fights with a sword and magic like Robin but her fighting style is still very different from the Robins since Celica is basically 'Marth with magic'. Especially since Robin's moveset in smash is suppose to represent weapon durability and Gaiden is the only game besides Fates to not have that mechanic so I feel Robin's moveset wouldn't fit her. Not only that but Celica doesn't even use tomes (besides in Heroes) nor is her sword known for using electricity. As much as I would love to see her playable in Smash I feel like they are going to pass on her and Celica will only show up as a regular trophy.

Well, the whole point of an Echo fighter is that they're similar but different - in the same way Marth and Lucina are or Pit and Dark Pit. Marth is precise and more powerful while Lucina is balanced yet weaker as a result. Dark Pit is slower and more powerful than Pit, and some of his attacks hit at different angles. Celica could freely use magic at the cost of damage percentage (reflective of Gaiden/Echoes) or have slower start up or weaker damage on attacks. Tomes, in terms of gameplay, are just cosmetic- apart from the bit where Robin tosses them after they run out. Ladyblade could also be used in place of the Levin sword, using fire in place of electricity. Outside of battle she also uses fire attacks in dungeons regardless of weapon, though that's a bit of a stretch.

Edited by Arcphoenix

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10 minutes ago, Nym said:

To all of those who said Celica should be Robin's echo fighter.

Sorry but I don't see it.

She's too different to Robin, yes she uses a sword and magic but that's about it. That's not even the same type of magic in the first place, she doesn't use tomes.

If someone deserve to be Robin's echo fighter, it's Morgan.

Yes! I would love that so much! If I can't have BK/Zelgius even as an Ike palette, I'd be plenty happy with Morgan as a skin. I also agree that Celica being an echo fighter of Robin just would not feel quite right.

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38 minutes ago, Arcphoenix said:

Well, the whole point of an Echo fighter is that they're similar but different - in the same way Marth and Lucina are or Pit and Dark Pit. Marth is precise and more powerful while Lucina is balanced yet weaker as a result. Dark Pit is slower and more powerful than Pit, and some of his attacks hit at different angles. Celica could freely use magic at the cost of damage percentage (reflective of Gaiden/Echoes) or have slower start up or weaker damage on attacks. Tomes, in terms of gameplay, are just cosmetic- apart from the bit where Robin tosses them after they run out.

Actually, are you sure Lucina and Dark Pit still have those differences over Marth and Pit respectively? Because I don't think they do anymore otherwise what would be the point of making them echo fighters and not normal fighters? I know Dr Mario was spared of this same treatement because of how different he was and not just because of his weight.

For what I understand, echo fighters have to be exactly like the character they are based off. If you start adding different things between characters of the exact same moveset, you are going to break the competitive nature (which Nitendo is clearly trying to keep by adding battlefield option alongside omega forms and new techniques). Not to mention it would confuse some players. You might as well make her a new DLC fighter or something.

31 minutes ago, Baron the Shining Blade said:

Yes! I would love that so much! If I can't have BK/Zelgius even as an Ike palette, I'd be plenty happy with Morgan as a skin. I also agree that Celica being an echo fighter of Robin just would not feel quite right.

I mean it only makes sense: Morgan being the son/daughter of Robin, I wonder why everyone wants Celica.

Edited by Nym

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I'm not a fan of smash, and I most likely won't buy this game however it'd be cool to see Rex from Xenoblade 2 be a skin/ clone of Shulk with Monado arts being Mythra buffing him depending on what buff you choose. I think it'd work out really well and uhhh really I just want people to play Xenoblade 2, it's a fantastic game and it's one of the best switch games. 

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20 minutes ago, Nym said:

Actually, are you sure Lucina and Dark Pit still have those differences over Marth and Pit respectively? Because I don't think they do anymore otherwise what would be the point of making them echo fighters and not normal fighters? I know Dr Mario was spared of this same treatement because of how different he was and not just because of his weight.

For what I understand, echo fighters have to be exactly like the character they are based off. If you start adding different things between characters of the exact same moveset, you are going to break the competitive nature (which Nitendo is clearly trying to keep by adding battlefield option alongside omega forms and new techniques). Not to mention it would confuse some players. You might as well make her a new DLC fighter or something.

Those things aren't true about Dark Pit in the first place. His only differences are his neutral B (which is confirmed for Ultimate as seen in his video), his side b, and his final smash.

Lucina is almost certainly retaining her tipper-less moveset. In a couple screenshots on the website you can see the...uh...wave? that comes out behind her sword when she attacks is still different from Marth's to signify where the knockback is strongest.

The whole point of an echo character not being an alt is because there are a few differences. If there was literally nothing different they would be an alt like Alph. This won't "break" the competitive nature at all, I don't even understand how you could come to such an idea.

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2 hours ago, Arcphoenix said:

Well, the whole point of an Echo fighter is that they're similar but different - in the same way Marth and Lucina are or Pit and Dark Pit. Marth is precise and more powerful while Lucina is balanced yet weaker as a result. Dark Pit is slower and more powerful than Pit, and some of his attacks hit at different angles. Celica could freely use magic at the cost of damage percentage (reflective of Gaiden/Echoes) or have slower start up or weaker damage on attacks. Tomes, in terms of gameplay, are just cosmetic- apart from the bit where Robin tosses them after they run out.

The way I have always saw it was the reason Lucina is a Marth clone in smash is because part of her shtick in Awakening was that she was trying to (in her mind) impersonate Marth so they made her moveset exactly the same as Marth to translate that into Smash with slightly different properties in her attacks and while I have never played KI: Uprising I believe Dark Pit's backstory was that he was created from a evil mirror based on Pit's reflection right but otherwise he can use the same weapons Pit uses correct? Even Daisy makes since as Peach clone since almost every Mario spin-off has Daisy as Peach's counterpart who can presumedly do every Peach can do and Daisy was literally a Peach clone back in Super Mario Land.

With Celica however I feel people just come a quick conclusion of 'oh, she fights with a sword and magic like Robin so clearly she can be clone of them' and just leave it at. Yes, I could see Celica gimmick being using magic at the cost of damage to herself but at that point is Celica still an echo fighter of Robin. Is self-inflicting damage the same as weapon durability? I don't see how that means she should be using all of Robin's attack animations especially since she doesn't even canonically know spells like Thoron, Arcfire, Elwind even though Marth/Roy/Ike are using counter. Plus I see her spell list being based around fire and light element spells like Ragnarok, Seraphim, and Aura instead of using spells from Awakening.

Even their walking, running and jumping animations would presumedly have to be different because I see Robin as a slow, sturdy and more focused on using magic while Celica is more agile, frail and would be more balanced between swinging her sword and flashing out spells. Basically, if Sakurai wanted Celica in Smash I feel like he would spend the usual time and resources to give Celica her own unique moveset to represent Gaiden/Echoes and not give her the Fire Emblem Warriors treatment of being a clone two times in a row decided at the last minute. Lucina can get away with being a clone of Marth/Chrom/Eirika/whoever because IS will cram her into just about anything FE related but I believe Celica has plenty of unique things about her to be different than any other mage knight from FE. And wow I wrote more about this then I thought I was going to but hopefully it all made sense.

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28 minutes ago, Kazuya said:

it'd be cool to see Rex from Xenoblade 2 be a skin/ clone of Shulk with Monado arts being Mythra buffing him depending on what buff you choose

I'm gonna throw something if i see another person say that Rex should be an echo of Shulk. The two fight nothing alike, the Aegis Sword has it's own abilities that separate it from Shulk's Monado and Rex has the whole Blade mechanic thing. You can't make them fight similarly even if you tried. 

 

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I welcome the Echo Fighters, they just needs to have their own personality and their own little niche compared with their original versions.

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