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I know we're all excited about our lady axe lord, but...

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I don''t like RD's AS mechanic since it hampers mages. I remember not using most because of that. Only used Ilyana and Micaiah.

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5 hours ago, IEatLasers said:

Honestly, I’m hurt that we Finally get a woman in the spotlight and she’s overshadowed by the main character as an avatar. We never got a lord! We had Lyn who got taken over by Eliwood and then hector I’m NG+, Erika who had ephraim, and Michiah who had to fight the return of Ike taking lead.

I saw Edelgard and thought finally we get a lord for the girls~

nope. It’s an avatar main character and there’s 2 other lords, both men.

Not like guys have Marth, Ike, Chrom, Alm (who comes out on top over Celica), Eliwood, and maybe the new main guy if he can’t change genders.

Thsts whats changed my opinion. I’m so upset. 

It's hard to say how it will pan out from the one trailer we've seen. Byleth (whose gender might be up to the player) does seem to be a main character, but it remains to be seen if he's primarily a viewpoint character or shown to be the primary protagonist. At the very least, Edelgard was featured primarily in this trailer over Dimitri and Claude (that said, that's not proof she won't turn out like Micaiah or Lyn).

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1 hour ago, NekoKnight said:

It's hard to say how it will pan out from the one trailer we've seen. Byleth (whose gender might be up to the player) does seem to be a main character, but it remains to be seen if he's primarily a viewpoint character or shown to be the primary protagonist. At the very least, Edelgard was featured primarily in this trailer over Dimitri and Claude (that said, that's not proof she won't turn out like Micaiah or Lyn).

I need it  hope  to that Byleth it isn’t the same. Same reason I didn’t count Corrin...(though Corrin was so blank even she got overshadowed by Ryoma and Xander)

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16 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

it single-handedly compromises balance by making certain units better or worse.

Oh, I thought we were talking about con not growth rates.....

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16 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

It's hard to say how it will pan out from the one trailer we've seen. Byleth (whose gender might be up to the player) does seem to be a main character, but it remains to be seen if he's primarily a viewpoint character or shown to be the primary protagonist. At the very least, Edelgard was featured primarily in this trailer over Dimitri and Claude (that said, that's not proof she won't turn out like Micaiah or Lyn).

At least Micaiah was relevant for the overall narrative, and does some important stuff... that the writing wanted to focus more in Ike in the Late Game is its own problem (I don't have a big problem with that, at least Ike doesn't feel completely as a Gary Stu... a spotlight stealer mostly xDU... But Micaiah would have been better used, there is a lot of wasted potential)

Lyn is such an after-thought.. sometimes it makes me laugh for how irrelevant she is for the world, sometimes it makes me feel sad.

Edited by Troykv

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On 6/18/2018 at 9:00 AM, immatx said:

Oh, I thought we were talking about con not growth rates.....

Of course we are. No offense, but the fact you thought otherwise reflects rather poorly on you, far as I'm concerned... And for the record, I don't have a problem with weight in general (SoV did make it work well), but the system used in the GBA games was a huge step in the wrong direction.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia

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I hope they aren't bringing back Strength-as-Con. It makes Str far too important early (as it basically does double duty) and then the entire mechanic irrelevant later.

I'd prefer just straight AS subtraction like Fates/SoV used on some weapons.

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8 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Of course we are. No offense, but the fact you thought otherwise reflects rather poorly on you, far as I'm concerned...

That was unnecessary.

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12 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Of course we are. No offense, but the fact you thought otherwise reflects rather poorly on you, far as I'm concerned... And for the record, I don't have a problem with weight in general (SoV did make it work well), but the system used in the GBA games was a huge step in the wrong direction.

I was making a joke. Growth rates, base stats, recruitment chapter, con, there's many things that go into making a character good or bad.

Using strength in place of con is much worse from a game design perspective. Sure it makes it easier on the player, but any aspect of a game that starts as a mild inconvenience and can be completely ignored by the end of the game is a poorly designed function.

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16 minutes ago, immatx said:

I was making a joke. Growth rates, base stats, recruitment chapter, con, there's many things that go into making a character good or bad.

Using strength in place of con is much worse from a game design perspective. Sure it makes it easier on the player, but any aspect of a game that starts as a mild inconvenience and can be completely ignored by the end of the game is a poorly designed function.

That’s true enough.

And I vehemently disagree when you have some units (mostly male units) that wind up just being better - for the most part, female units tend to have lower strength than males, but have more speed. Con takes that advantage away from them, and leaves them with bupkis to make up for it (considering that the speed advantage females have might not even materialize due to the random nature of level ups). I say again, what advantages are there to having low con???

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia

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28 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

That’s true enough.

And I vehemently disagree when you have some units (mostly male units) that wind up just being better - in comparison, most of the time, female units tend to have lower strength than males, but have more speed. Con takes that advantage away from them, and leaves them with bupkis to make up for it. I say again, what advantages are there to having low con???

Besides rescue none that I can think of. But a feature doesn't have to have an advantage for it to be good. It adds another stat that makes a unit good/bad while preventing a second stat (strength) from being twice as important. That's good for balance. Devs can also give a unit that's too strong lower con to account for any imbalance, and having a unit with low con can make for more interesting gameplay decisions when you have to account for the loss in speed.

Edited by immatx

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50 minutes ago, immatx said:

Besides rescue none that I can think of. But a feature doesn't have to have an advantage for it to be good. It adds another stat that makes a unit good/bad while preventing a second stat (strength) from being twice as important. That's good for balance. Devs can also give a unit that's too strong lower con to account for any imbalance, and having a unit with low con can make for more interesting gameplay decisions when you have to account for the loss in speed.

I fail to see how it makes for more interesting gameplay decisions when there's almost never a reason to use a heavier weapon that could potentially cost you a follow-up attack, or in the worst case, result in you being on the bad end of a follow-up. That means strategy gets dumbed down - there's no strategy involved when you have cases where "this unit is so impaired by this weapon they can't use it".

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8 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I fail to see how it makes for more interesting gameplay decisions when there's almost never a reason to use a heavier weapon that could potentially cost you a follow-up attack, or in the worst case, result in you being on the bad end of a follow-up. That means strategy gets dumbed down - there's no strategy involved when you have cases where "this unit is so impaired by this weapon they can't use it".

Well that's easy. Imagine if you're using an iron axe and you would leave the enemy with 1 hp. If you use a steal axe you would get doubled but you can finish the enemy off. However, there's a second enemy enemy who could come attack you on the enemy phase. The situations grow even more in a fog of war map.

If you're unwilling to use a unit only because it can get doubled then it would suck for you to be the enemy commander.

Edited by immatx

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1 hour ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

That’s true enough.

And I vehemently disagree when you have some units (mostly male units) that wind up just being better - for the most part, female units tend to have lower strength than males, but have more speed. Con takes that advantage away from them, and leaves them with bupkis to make up for it (considering that the speed advantage females have might not even materialize due to the random nature of level ups). I say again, what advantages are there to having low con???

i don't see what the sex of the character has to do with this. (as for the most part) in real life “female units tend to have lower strength than males.” as the male units would (because of their higher strength) would likely be wearing heavier armor, resulting in higher defense and lowered speed. if you think about this it begins to make sense why the female units would have lower con and defense while having higher speed than male units . and rng can screw any unit not just female ones. and regarding advantages of having low con, i agree with what @immatx said:
 

58 minutes ago, immatx said:

Besides rescue none that I can think of. But a feature doesn't have to have an advantage for it to be good. It adds another stat that makes a unit good/bad while preventing a second stat (strength) from being twice as important. That's good for balance. Devs can also give a unit that's too strong lower con to account for any imbalance, and having a unit with low con can make for more interesting gameplay decisions when you have to account for the loss in speed.

 

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1 hour ago, immatx said:

Well that's easy. Imagine if you're using an iron axe and you would leave the enemy with 1 hp. If you use a steal axe you would get doubled but you can finish the enemy off. However, there's a second enemy enemy who could come attack you on the enemy phase. The situations grow even more in a fog of war map.

If you're unwilling to use a unit only because it can get doubled then it would suck for you to be the enemy commander.

Except most axe users before promotion are fighters, which tend to be able to use steel axes with minimal penalty. They also tend to be pretty slow, too, but not enough to where they're constantly at risk of being doubled regularly (or at least some of them are).

23 minutes ago, lbmatx said:

i don't see what the sex of the character has to do with this. (as for the most part) in real life “female units tend to have lower strength than males.” as the male units would (because of their higher strength) would likely be wearing heavier armor, resulting in higher defense and lowered speed. if you think about this it begins to make sense why the female units would have lower con and defense while having higher speed than male units . and rng can screw any unit not just female ones. and regarding advantages of having low con, i agree with what @immatx said:
 

 

The RNG part was to show that the one advantage females tend to have over males (which gets voided by their being hit harder by penalties to AS) might not even manifest, while the higher con part tends to hold true. Especially since with the exception of Thracia, con is (largely) a static stat. As for the part you quoted, I have this to say:

1 hour ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

 

I fail to see how it makes for more interesting gameplay decisions when there's almost never a reason to use a heavier weapon that could potentially cost you a follow-up attack, or in the worst case, result in you being on the bad end of a follow-up. That means strategy gets dumbed down - there's no strategy involved when you have cases where "this unit is so impaired by this weapon they can't use it".

 

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33 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Except most axe users before promotion are fighters, which tend to be able to use steel axes with minimal penalty. They also tend to be pretty slow, too, but not enough to where they're constantly at risk of being doubled regularly (or at least some of them are).

So I guess you aren't able to 'imagine' then....

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52 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

The RNG part was to show that the one advantage females tend to have over males

just for fun i calculated the base and max stats of a set of male and female mymidon's from sacred stones, and a set of male and female archers from blazing sword.

-marisa-
       Lvl 1 stats     max stats     growth rates     total stats: 176.4
hp:     20                   48.5              75% 
str:     5.8                 17.2               30%
skl:    9.8                  30.7               55%
spd:   10.6               33.4                60%
lck:    7                     26                  50%
def:   3.4                  9.1                 15%
res:   2                     11.5                25%  

-joshua- 
         Lvl 1 stats     max stats     growth rates     total stats: 173.3
Hp:     20.8                51.2                80%                                     
str:      6.6                  19.9               35%                                     
skl:     10.8                 31.7               55%                                     
spd:    11.8                 32.7               55%                                     
lck:      5.8                  17.2               30%                                      
def:     4.2                  11.8                20%                                       
res:     1.2                  8.8                  20%                                    
base level-1

-rebecca-
lvl 1 bases     max stats      growth rates     total stats: 155.9
hp:     17             39.8                      60%    
str:    4               19.2                      40%
skl:    5                 24                       50%
spd:    6             28.8                      60%
lck:    4               23                         50%
def:    3              8.7                        15%
res:    1            12.4                        30%
-wil-
lvl 1 bases      max stats      growth rates     total stats: 155
hp:     19.25           47                      75%  
str:     5.5               24                      50%
skl:     4.5              23                       50%
spd:     4.6           19.4                     40%
lck:     5.6            20.4                     40%
def:     4.8          12.2                       20%
res:     -0.25         9                          25%

 

it looks like from these two pairings that the female characters have a leg up in stats. here are the sites that i used to calculate these stats: marisa: http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Marisa, joshua: http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Joshua, rebecca: http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Rebecca_(The_Blazing_Blade), wil: http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Wil

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1 hour ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I fail to see how it makes for more interesting gameplay decisions when there's almost never a reason to use a heavier weapon that could potentially cost you a follow-up attack, or in the worst case, result in you being on the bad end of a follow-up. That means strategy gets dumbed down - there's no strategy involved when you have cases where "this unit is so impaired by this weapon they can't use it".

 

2 hours ago, immatx said:

Well that's easy. Imagine if you're using an iron axe and you would leave the enemy with 1 hp. If you use a steal axe you would get doubled but you can finish the enemy off. However, there's a second enemy enemy who could come attack you on the enemy phase. The situations grow even more in a fog of war map.

If you're unwilling to use a unit only because it can get doubled then it would suck for you to be the enemy commander.

i believe that this answer ^ is a sufficient answer to your statement.

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7 hours ago, lbmatx said:

 

i believe that this answer ^ is a sufficient answer to your statement.

And I believe it falls flat on its face - the moment "imagine" was used, it came off as weak and desperate instead. "What if" is not a very compelling answer.

7 hours ago, lbmatx said:

just for fun i calculated the base and max stats of a set of male and female mymidon's from sacred stones, and a set of male and female archers from blazing sword.

 

-marisa-
       Lvl 1 stats     max stats     growth rates     total stats: 176.4
hp:     20                   48.5              75% 
str:     5.8                 17.2               30%
skl:    9.8                  30.7               55%
spd:   10.6               33.4                60%
lck:    7                     26                  50%
def:   3.4                  9.1                 15%
res:   2                     11.5                25%  

-joshua- 
         Lvl 1 stats     max stats     growth rates     total stats: 173.3
Hp:     20.8                51.2                80%                                     
str:      6.6                  19.9               35%                                     
skl:     10.8                 31.7               55%                                     
spd:    11.8                 32.7               55%                                     
lck:      5.8                  17.2               30%                                      
def:     4.2                  11.8                20%                                       
res:     1.2                  8.8                  20%                                    
base level-1

-rebecca-
lvl 1 bases     max stats      growth rates     total stats: 155.9
hp:     17             39.8                      60%    
str:    4               19.2                      40%
skl:    5                 24                       50%
spd:    6             28.8                      60%
lck:    4               23                         50%
def:    3              8.7                        15%
res:    1            12.4                        30%
-wil-
lvl 1 bases      max stats      growth rates     total stats: 155
hp:     19.25           47                      75%  
str:     5.5               24                      50%
skl:     4.5              23                       50%
spd:     4.6           19.4                     40%
lck:     5.6            20.4                     40%
def:     4.8          12.2                       20%
res:     -0.25         9                          25%

 

it looks like from these two pairings that the female characters have a leg up in stats. here are the sites that i used to calculate these stats: marisa: http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Marisa, joshua: http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Joshua, rebecca: http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Rebecca_(The_Blazing_Blade), wil: http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Wil

Except for the part where Joshua is generally considered better than Marisa. All she really has over him is luck.

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I've honestly never been fond of Axes because of accuracy, whether Weight is back or not, I'll probably be leaning towards Swords in most scenarios unless I need an Axe

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Considering my general disdain and lack of trust in axes, i'll probably slap a sword on her and call it a day. Though I may keep a spare axe on her solely for WT related reasons.

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2 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

And I believe it falls flat on its face - the moment "imagine" was used, it came off as weak and desperate instead. "What if" is not a very compelling answer.

You said you couldn't see a situation where lower con could make for more interesting game play decisions. The natural follow up would be providing an example. Well, I can't use anecdotal evidence, and due to the nature of the game there's not an experience we've all had, so the only remaining option is hypothetical. Do you think things through or just say the first thing that comes into your head? "What if" is the ONLY answer.

2 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Except for the part where Joshua is generally considered better than Marisa. All she really has over him is luck.

That's just because he has a much earlier recruitment chapter. If they were reversed she would be considered the better one.

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4 hours ago, immatx said:

That's just because he has a much earlier recruitment chapter. If they were reversed she would be considered the better one.

And because her bases are no better than his. And because she comes underleveled.

 

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17 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

And because her bases are no better than his. And because she comes underleveled.

 

Yeah exactly. Since you get them at the same level, if the situations were reversed she would be the one who was considered better. Besides recruitment chapter they're remarkably similar characters.

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On 6/18/2018 at 9:24 AM, IEatLasers said:

Honestly 

 

I’m hurt that we Finally get a woman in the spotlight and she’s overshadowed by the main character as an avatar. We never got a lord! We had Lyn who got taken over by Eliwood and then hector I’m NG+, Erika who had ephraim, and Michiah who had to fight the return of Ike taking lead. ...

Not to mention, female-lord-overshadowed-by-male has become an overused story cliche in FE... And this is when real life had historic female rulers and leaders like Maria Teresa of Austria, Catherine of Russia, Joan of Arc of France, Queen Elizabeth, and Himiko of Japan (though the last one is debatable) who all carved their part of their respective national histories. Although, I don't see why the Avatar can't be both genders (Otherwise it's just PR suicide on IS's part considering Awakening/Fates!) - let's hope that would be the case. I for one would find it refreshing if the female lord's story goes full steam ahead this time!

Edited by henrymidfields

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