Training Mafia 3.0: Advanced - GAMEOVER

[Fable]

Just now, Bartozio said:

Makaze trying to bulldoze a lynch instead of actually solving the game and you thinking Evan would try harder to get reads as town.

You're missing both those cases involve time. 

 

I wanted to give mak time to back off and Evan time to come back because I didn't think he'd slank as long as he did which is why it stood out to me.  Just as I didn't vote you today because I wanted to give you time to post.

Can you explain why you think being patient is wolfy?

[Makaze]

Alright.

When I was reading Bartozio's ISO there were some things that seemed tonally off to me.

On 6/19/2018 at 11:54 AM, Bartozio said:

Uhm, no? All you did in that conversation was react with: this question is dumb. This question is dumber. Why are you being dumb? (in rvs)

That doesn't count as keeping an interaction going to me. Heck, if you were suspicious of Athena when you asked that "What are you trying to pull?", why didn't you vote him? Even if he was joking, why not continue with asking him why he was asking you all those question, since it doesn't seem like you were townreading him for the effort? I'm having trouble seeing this lack of intrest come from someone trying to solve the game.

Think this is a good point to correct my vote:

##Vote: @XnadrojX

 

This (in rvs) just seems weird to me. It's not natural, and the preparedness of his statements is pinging. I wanted to chalk it up to just way of talking, but there are inconsistencies. I'll talk more about that later.

On 6/20/2018 at 2:01 AM, Bartozio said:

I meant to say that was how I interpreted it (and thus, how you meant it), instead of you factually saying it. I can see I didn't word it well, so apologies.

What would I expect you to gain? Any kind of a read? A chance to attempt to move out of rvs? Did I really not make that clear yet?

Even if you feel it turned out useful in the end, I call BS on you expecting it to be usefull when the conversation just ended, which was my point.

During rvs, you can literaly play anything off as a joke. Heck, even if he was joking, he was still attempting to start something. If I was expecting someone to be trying to pull some kind of scummy stunt, him answering it was just a joke would not convince me in the least.

If you feel analyzing rvs is pointless (even during rvs), sure. It means games will never pick from your doing, so you'll always rely on other players to get things going. If everyone played like that, D1 would just be roulette. But sure, you can play like that.

Someone thinking scum would be less open and thus try to hide their emotion makes sense. I think scum can just not be great at hiding their emotions though. You being annoyed when someone tries to start something with you during rvs feels scummy, because should love the chance to get the ball rolling. Basicly, I din't think you showing emotion itself is scummy, I think the particular emotion you showed at that time was scummy.

I literaly gave examples of what you could have done. Voting him or voting with him are the things I would have done.

You're not giving him a real way to continue, which is why it breaks of the conversation.

Reaching question => dumb question in my book. So after you called two of his questions reaching, asking "what are you trying to pull" is pretty similar to asking "Why are you being dumb" imo.

It was ment as a refrence to you saying me attacking you for a lack of scumhunting, but me only attacking you with faulty logic is a leap in logic itself.

Also, I explained how my logic connects.

The post Mack reacted to was made before your conversation with Athena.

The SB shitposting thing being a joke doesn't matter, he still tried to get you to vote me.

Honestly, I'm starting to think I just expected more from Xnad at the start of the game then I should have.

Fables cases feel like stuff he could have made at anytime, making his actions feel more like stalling then actually needing to get started.

##Unvote

##Vote: @Fable

 

He spends all that time casing Xanodj and then switches to Fable with a one liner. As others pointed out to me, this isn't normal for him, and there is only a single lead up post before this. First he asked Fable to produce reads, and then when he did produce reads, his entire case was "Those reads weren't worth the wait". I'd expect something more damning than this, like, you don't believe the reads are real, they agree with your ideas of who else is Mafia, and so on.

This is a lazy casing tactic because it puts the work on Fable to implicate himself and Bart doesn't have to do a thing. He waits. If Fable produces real reads, he can back off and do it to someone else. If Fable underperforms, he can case him for underperforming. The fact that this is where his case begins and ends makes me think its not a genuine read, and could be bus or mislynch chasing as just as easily.

None of that is really damning, but then when I read his reads list, something stuck out to me.

On 6/20/2018 at 4:45 PM, Bartozio said:

Wooh, reads time. I haven't reread or fully read as much I would've liked, but I'm going to sleep, so here's what I'm currently at, mostly from towny to scummy:

I feel Makaze is likely town. His sticking to a "soul read" might be annoying, but his later reasoning for it wasn't bad (as in, I can believe someone being convinced for these reasons), and I feel his posts are very much made in an attempt to solve the game. Would not lynch.

Rapier (YESSS, he's not really flaking yet) made some pretty sharp comments, and I like his reasoning overall. Likely town.

Athena: I liked Athenas start of trying to get things going, and his content till now has looked fine or good to me. I also feel scum Athena struggles more with producing meaningfull content and will generally stick too easy content, where town Athena feels a lot more natural. His current play clearly fits in the second category, imo.

Fenrir, Junk and Rad feel fine to me, but I really need to reread their content. Homework for N1 I guess.

Mackc2: I feel his later posts were a bit above average in terms of scumhunting and interacting with the thread for him, so I'm not really scumreading this slot. His general playstyle and
me not knowing his scum meta (roll scum already dude) make it more of null/slight town lean though.

Zeonth catch up post wasn't bad, but I need to hear opinions about the second (and more intresting) half of the game before forming a real opinion on him. Or read it if it is actually already posted...

Xnad: Taking a step back, I'm more willing to believe he really just doesn't give any value to rvs (not an actual quote, but an interpretation), and as much as I disagree with his case on me,
I do think there's actual thought put into it. He also doesn't use his case on me as a reason to ignore other stuff, which I like. Basicly, a lot less sure about him being scum. Urgh, leaning
more towards null/slightly town right now, but that might swing over to any side in the next span of a day. (Did I mention I suck when I start to secondguess stuff).

Satsuma: His content is low, but it's not a lot different from IDNSFMM, which makes me mostly null on him. I feel like he was slightly more cooperative then though, even though there was
less content from my memory, so small scum lean here.

Evan's posts were bad, but about the same as last game I feel. He could be coasting since people seem to not want to lynch based purely on his lack of content, but that's mostly NAI right
now.

I feel Fable's first real content post was scummy, because the case on Makaze was something he seems to have had in his mind for most of the game, and Evan hadn't posted in at least a day. He could have made that post a full day earlier without changing anything. This feels less like having trouble to get reads, and more like just not wanting to post for half a day. It would literaly not suprise me if he had that whole post written out a day in advance.

@Fable, I think you can respond to a case without me asking questions, but sure:

Why did you post those cases against Makaze and Evan at the time you did? Why not a full day earlier?

I'd prefer a Fable lynch at this point, but since that doesn't seem likely to happen, I'm a lot more in favor of Satsuma then any of the alternatives:

##Unvote

##Vote: @SatsumaFSoysoy

Some of his reads come off as overly formed, while others read more naturally. Some of them are first drafts, and others are revisions.

Most of the off ones are people I am town reading, and the Rapier is one we know is town, so this jumping between tone in one reads list is highly pinging.

To check on my sanity and see if this was his normal game, I read his day 1 from his recent scum game. Here are some examples:

Spoiler

On 5/14/2018 at 11:18 AM, Bartozio said:

Sup guys, I'm back. Did a quick skim of the thread.

 

I think scum!Eury would just post less lol. After she posted she'd barely have time, she made some posts with barely any reads in them. I think Scum!Eury would use being busy as an excuse to not post until she had some decent reads to share.

I meant Refa saying he had a gut scumread on people (think it was you and Shinori) but not pursuing it at all. I think that if he was feeling bad about you guys he'd have quite a lot to talk about, so it's weird to me he didn't. (Admittedly, he has made cases since I made that readpost though.)

I mean, I admit they could be playing like this as scum, but that's kind of a mood point cause I could see them round up half the scum teama s scum in an attempt to look good. I feel like their current actions are a lot more likely to come from town and didn't really see anything bad in their posts (I already explained what I found good about their posts in my readup). I'll have to reread them to properly respond to your cases though.

Refa acutally making cases on Shinori and SB makes me feel a bit better about him, because it seems like he actually had stuff he didn't like about them, instead of just trowing around accusations without any thought behind it. As I said, I'll have to actually read up on stuff to respond to it properly, but they seem like decent cases at first glance.

Evans case on Ice Sage looks pretty bad, since it's basicly just accusing him of not having any reads, while Evan doesn't really seem to have those himself either (apart from this case I guess). I find it a bit disturbing he didn't look into SB at all after trowing shade at him for his initial case, and came back with an easy case on Ice Sage instead.

Wouldn't mind lynching this slot tbh.

I think Ice Sage makes more sense as a vig target tbh, since his only meaningful interaction is with Evan (could say the same about Mack, but he's getting a sub).

I made this post around page 14, but then my internet died and I could only post it now. fml, but have some comments anyway.

 

On 5/14/2018 at 12:04 PM, Bartozio said:

@Vi-astra Done reading his posts.

Him coming in the thread townreading you, KTS and Eury is pretty null to me. You guys were pretty much consensus town I think, so it's a pretty safe read.

His gutread on Randa could be intresting for associative reads later on, but it doesn't really mean anything right now imo. Read on me is basicly saying I should post more, which is NAI.

His reasoning for finding SB town and finding Shinori odd at least had some reasoning behind it, though he dropped suspision on Shinori rather easily.

My problem with his content isn't so much that any of it is bad, but there's just not a lot that's really telling to me. Definitly don't want to lynch him before Evan or Rad right now, since those two I find actually scummy if that's why you asked.

 

On 5/16/2018 at 5:16 PM, Bartozio said:

 

I'm not so much saying there's no scum on the Evan wagon, but more dissagreeing with people saying there needs to be a great amount of scum (3+) on the wagon. If Randa was town, scum had no reason to try hard and get Evan lynched either. It's also possible scum was fully intend to bus Randa and didn't find a good reasoning to switch and/or hard push Evan. Heck, maybe they were on Evan and were planning to push him like mad to save Randa, but enough town went to him on their own they didn't need to bother. I think using this reasoning to insist on lynching someone from the Evan wagon is bad and overlooking a lot of posibilities.

Basicly, I think we should lynch who we think is scummy for their play. If the consensus is that Randa/Rad is the scummiest slot, we lynch them and analyze the wagons if he flips scum (still don't think we should only lynch on the Evan wagon in this case). If we think someone outside the wagon is the scummiest, we lynch them. Same if it's someone on the wagon. We do not consolidate on someone just because he happened to be voting a scummy townie and we need to lynch someone doing that.

Why are you voting Elemina actually? Did you even talk about them at all?

Response to Athena response to Conq

You want to lynch RAD first, sure, but you're still saying we should at the very least lynch on the Evan wagon. Not that we should lynch RAD and nobody else because he's confirmed scum in your eyes, not that we should definetly lynch in a pool of a few people you find really scummy who all happen to be on the wagon.

This mean you prioritize the wagon and it's formation, not the actual people on it (apart from RAD I guess), which I explained above is bad. This is my main problem with your slot at the moment, and what mostly caught my eye in Conq's case. I do not think you responded accurately to this point at all.

 

I don't dissagree with the Randa/RAD slot being scummy (which should be obvious from my vote being on them at the end of the day and my first post mentioning it). I do disagree with how scummy the rest of the wagon is. Scum can luck out sometimes, and I think Randa mostly lucked out with how bad Evan played.

If a bunch of people on the wagon look scummy individually, push them and get them lynched. Convince me of their individual scumminess. That's not a reason as to why everyone else on that wagon should be lynchpriority over people not on it.

It feels to me like you're trying to create reasons to not look at other people and push people on the wagon without reasons other then Rad being scum.

If scum didn't hammer on it, it means townies decided on their own to lynch Evan over Rad though?

You're saying scum wasn't willing to risk much, but jumping onto a counterwagon with bad reasoning is pretty risky. If you had succeeded in getting people to lynch Rad, they'd get called out for it. As I said before, I think there were enough reasons to actually make up a good reason to jump on the Evan wagon. Scum worries about how they look, so they'll put more effort into making their jump look good.

I could very easily see you having planned on bussing RAD and being to stuck to switch and just rolling with it for the cred now. especially if the other scum was also voting elsewhere. Even without that, focusing on the whole wagon instead of the people you find scummy there reads like a scum agenda to me.

##Vote: RAD

##FoS: athena

When I said his case was good, I mostly meant it made Conq look good. I already mentioned I didn't think your response to focussing on the wagon was any good though, and the thing with your case evolving required a reread (not scumreading you on that btw, don't think your progression was bad).

Michelaar had played one game. He insisted on not reading into anything and how all cases people made were flimsy and not worth commenting on. Refa tried saving him from the lynch by picking up a quote and trying to play it off as a townslip.

 

(2) Refa - Shinori, Elemina

(3) RAD - athena, Baldrick, Bartozio

(1) athena - Conqueror

Notes: SB, Bartozio, and Baldrick were the Mafia

He got lynched, losing the game.

One thing I notice is he was a lot less formal and seemed more natural than he has in this game. I am baffled by that as town because you should not be more tense and uneven as town than as Mafia, so I'm going to chalk this up to him taking mentors advise in some cases, but being more natural in others.

This is the real scum tell for me, there is no town reason to have these uneven tones across your post.

You can tell these statements are prepared and copy pasted because of odd line breaks, so I'm not going to consider that the reason, before you try to defend and say you always type them up in a word document, I can see that line breaking in both games.

What's pinging is the difference in tone from one read to the next, where you seem casual in one breath and tense in the next.

Then there's the Satsuma vote. His Satsuma vote comes just one post after his Fable vote, and he quickly jumps on the grounds "Fable wagon isn't going anywhere". This is two easy vote swaps that lack actual strength compared to his Xandroj read in the space of a post.

On 6/20/2018 at 5:00 PM, Bartozio said:

I already mentioned I didn't mind you not having cases at the start of the game though. You did pick up there though, and I remember you posting suspision on Zeus or an early townread on Bibbons without seemingly waiting endlessly for it.

People will find a way it seems.

1 minute ago, EvanManManMan said:

On page 3 right now. I think that Athena is towny due to their early vote on Junk and the way they questioned Xandroj. I think the way that xandroj responded was scummy. Athena basically said "there is a lot of content go find stuff" and xandroj just basically said no and I don't like that for obvious reasons.

THANK YOU!

This THANK YOU is just bad and pings me really bad, and makes me look back at his Xandroj wagon and think he only dropped it because it wasn't gaining traction, and his read didn't actually change.

I'm pretty sure Bartozio is Mafia independent of who else is, based on these points and associations being all over the place.

[Bartozio]

7 minutes ago, Fable said:

You're missing both those cases involve time. 

 

I wanted to give mak time to back off and Evan time to come back because I didn't think he'd slank as long as he did which is why it stood out to me.  Just as I didn't vote you today because I wanted to give you time to post.

Can you explain why you think being patient is wolfy?

 

Spoiler

Being patient isn't always bad, but being too patient is. As I said before:

40 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

Town would want to actually push stuff they find scummy right away, since it gives them more time to convince others. Scum would love to wait with playing seriously if they can get away with it, because it's less opportunities to get caught.

I think I mentioned before that waiting for things to get intresting means you're relying on other people to get things going, and if everyone thinks like that, scum will be the one to benefit from it. Add to that the fact that as town you should consider your opinion to have a possitive effect on the thread, since you know you're trying to solve the game, and around 25% of the others are faking.

^meta talk that I really feel like sharing, but isn't really relevant right now, since I'm not scumreading Fable for it.

I can understand wanting to wait for Evan, even though I personally feel being away is NAI. The Makaze case feels like it's unnecessary to wait though. Like, you mentioned him not giving reasons when you or other people asked and him not trying to engage you. If you felt that to be true, why did you think time would make a difference?

Add to that the fact that you didn't really talk about what Mak had been doing in the time you waited (he did actually engage people about other suspects), and it makes me very doubtful you were expecting anything to change. Heck, your case should have felt good enough if he refused to talk to people about why you were scum.

[Bartozio]

10 minutes ago, Makaze said:

Alright.

When I was reading Bartozio's ISO there were some things that seemed tonally off to me.

This (in rvs) just seems weird to me. It's not natural, and the preparedness of his statements is pinging. I wanted to chalk it up to just way of talking, but there are inconsistencies. I'll talk more about that later.

I don't really understand what you mean by preparedness here, even after reading your whole post. Can you elaborate? Do you think I was expecting Xnads reaction and prepared a response before reading it?

10 minutes ago, Makaze said:

He spends all that time casing Xanodj and then switches to Fable with a one liner. As others pointed out to me, this isn't normal for him, and there is only a single lead up post before this.

There's two or three people in this game that have played with me enough to know my meta, and I can't remember them talking about my meta on this point. Your mentor shouldn't really know it either. Please post quotes or tell me who you were talking to in the scum chat?

10 minutes ago, Makaze said:

First he asked Fable to produce reads, and then when he did produce reads, his entire case was "Those reads weren't worth the wait". I'd expect something more damning than this, like, you don't believe the reads are real, they agree with your ideas of who else is Mafia, and so on.

I think you're mixing up his reads not being good enough and me thinking he had them about a full day before posting them.

Evan hadn't posted in eons and he already mentioned being frustrated with you several times earlier. That's what making me conclude he's stalling.

10 minutes ago, Makaze said:

None of that is really damning, but then when I read his reads list, something stuck out to me.

Some of his reads come off as overly formed, while others read more naturally. Some of them are first drafts, and others are revisions.

Most of the off ones are people I am town reading, and the Rapier is one we know is town, so this jumping between tone in one reads list is highly pinging.

To check on my sanity and see if this was his normal game, I read his day 1 from his recent scum game. Here are some examples:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Notes: SB, Bartozio, and Baldrick were the Mafia

He got lynched, losing the game.

One thing I notice is he was a lot less formal and seemed more natural than he has in this game. I am baffled by that as town because you should not be more tense and uneven as town than as Mafia, so I'm going to chalk this up to him taking mentors advise in some cases, but being more natural in others.

This is the real scum tell for me, there is no town reason to have these uneven tones across your post.

You can tell these statements are prepared and copy pasted because of odd line breaks, so I'm not going to consider that the reason, before you try to defend and say you always type them up in a word document, I can see that line breaking in both games.

What's pinging is the difference in tone from one read to the next, where you seem casual in one breath and tense in the next.

You're right in that I copied things from text documents both times. I don't get what you're trying to say with the bolded statement, but me typing them both out in notepad first isn't an explanation for anything (apart from the linebreaks, lol), so whatever.

I rethink what I'm typing a lot, as both scum and town, both in and outside mafia. Somethings I type out, think nah, that's not right, and maul over several minutes, and some thing I just write at once because my mind doesn't feel the need to rethink it. I guess the latter feels more natural to you?

Also, you checked it with a scumgame of mine, but did you bother checking a towngame as well to be sure I don't just always do that? I didn't post a lot in IDNSFMM, so you can probably check it with that? Any other recent game here apart from Brexitland (didn't play) and Persona 5 (scumgame) should do as well.

10 minutes ago, Makaze said:

Then there's the Satsuma vote. His Satsuma vote comes just one post after his Fable vote, and he quickly jumps on the grounds "Fable wagon isn't going anywhere". This is two easy vote swaps that lack actual strength compared to his Xandroj read in the space of a post.

I felt the Fable case was easy enough it didn't need more then one line, lol.

Satsuma was a consolidation, so it obviously doesn't have as strong a reason. Fable only had my vote a few hours before deadline, excuse me for assuming he wasn't getting lynched?

10 minutes ago, Makaze said:

This THANK YOU is just bad and pings me really bad, and makes me look back at his Xandroj wagon and think he only dropped it because it wasn't gaining traction, and his read didn't actually change.

As I said before, litterally nobody seemed to understand my reason for finding him scummy, so I was just happy someone arrived at the same conclusion.

It was Xnads later posts that made me change my read, I still think my initial reasoning was valid (as in, the right in 90% of the cases but Xnad was among the other 10% kind of thing).

[Fable]

 

To be fair the process I went though with mak's vote was I didn't think it was serious to "wait wtf it is serious" to then trying to process that and only getting more frustrated as that went on.  So yeah that took a while. 

[Fable]

Can we talk about Evan shading me for the sake of it? He made a point of me describing the votes on Satsuma negatively but there was literally no point to do doing that. He made no conclusions. 

[Makaze]

32 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

I don't really understand what you mean by preparedness here, even after reading your whole post. Can you elaborate? Do you think I was expecting Xnads reaction and prepared a response before reading it?

There's two or three people in this game that have played with me enough to know my meta, and I can't remember them talking about my meta on this point. Your mentor shouldn't really know it either. Please post quotes or tell me who you were talking to in the scum chat?

It's a general rule that you don't need to prepare statements you believe in or come naturally to you. Your reads list reads as posturing.

lol

My mentor does know how you play, they were the one who pointed out your other scum game to me, but yeah, I meant that more generally in that others haven't defended you for that behavior on meta basis (which is the only basis I can see).

[Makaze]

3 minutes ago, Fable said:

Can we talk about Evan shading me for the sake of it? He made a point of me describing the votes on Satsuma negatively but there was literally no point to do doing that. He made no conclusions. 

Who are you talking to, in particular?

[Fable]

1 minute ago, Makaze said:

Who are you talking to, in particular?

The thread. 

[Makaze]

1 minute ago, Fable said:

The thread. 

Okay, he's shading you. But, he also had a point.

Do you think all three scum were on the Satsuma wagon?

[Fable]

Not thrilled with " Fable case is easy so I didn't have to put a lot of effort into it " from Bartozio. Almost feels TWTBAW though cuz it's almost admitting that you're pushing lhf for the sake of it.  Would think a wolf be more cautious about admitting that. 

[Fable]

1 minute ago, Makaze said:

Okay, he's shading you. But, he also had a point.

Do you think all three scum were on the Satsuma wagon?

What was the point? 

I think 1-2 wolves on Satsuma probably likely yeah.

[Makaze]

Just now, Fable said:

What was the point? 

I think 1-2 wolves on Satsuma probably likely yeah.

He was pointing that all of your lynch candidates were also all of the people on the wagon. Since its unlikely all 3 were on the wagon, you should have at least one suspect who's not.

[Fable]

1 minute ago, Makaze said:

He was pointing that all of your lynch candidates were also all of the people on the wagon. Since its unlikely all 3 were on the wagon, you should have at least one suspect who's not.

Psst, literally voting Evan at this very moment.

[Makaze]

Just now, Fable said:

Psst, literally voting Evan at this very moment.

... Fair.

[Iris]

Day 2: Automated Votals from #425 to #640

Fable (1): Bartozio
Zeonth (3): athena_57, Makaze, Fenrir Aesir
EvanManManMan (1): Fable
Bartozio (2): Junk, XnadrojX
Not voting (4): EvanManManMan, Mackc2, RADicate, Zeonth

Phase ends in 19h52m. Hammer at 8.

Vote history:

 

athena_57 (1): Zeonth

Bartozio (1): Fable

Fable (1): EvanManManMan

Fenrir Aesir (1): Zeonth

Junk (1): Bartozio

Makaze (1): Zeonth

XnadrojX (1): Bartozio

<Beta v2.0.4>

Edited June 22, 2018 by Iris

[EvanManManMan]

3 hours ago, Makaze said:

this is not doing you or me any favors.

here, ill paste them for you, it's a big post though

Bartozio

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fenrir Aesir

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I read the Bartozio ISO and I don't see any real problems. I think his push on Xandroj is well thought out as well as his Fable push. People were saying that Bart was tunneling but I don't see that. I do agree that his switch to Satsuma was bad but it's not extremely bad. I don't really see why Bart is that bad. I don't have them as super strong town but I'd prefer if they weren't lynched.

I'm probably going to end up reading Fenrir overnight but that's not the highest priority for me since they aren't really at risk of dying.

[Makaze]

##Vote: @EvanManManMan

[EvanManManMan]

42 minutes ago, Fable said:

Can we talk about Evan shading me for the sake of it? He made a point of me describing the votes on Satsuma negatively but there was literally no point to do doing that. He made no conclusions. 

I think my concluaion on you is already clear

[EvanManManMan]

5 minutes ago, Makaze said:

##Vote: @EvanManManMan

Ok

[Bartozio]

17 minutes ago, Makaze said:

It's a general rule that you don't need to prepare statements you believe in or come naturally to you. Your reads list reads as posturing.

I get missinterpreted and misslynched basicly every game I play, so I think I have reasons to double check what I read.

And even if I didn't, it's mostly a habbit anyway.

17 minutes ago, Makaze said:

lol

My mentor does know how you play, they were the one who pointed out your other scum game to me, but yeah, I meant that more generally in that others haven't defended you for that behavior on meta basis (which is the only basis I can see).

Your mentor played one game with me, where he subbed in at a point where I was hard flaking. I'm honestly amazed if he thinks he can derive my general playstyle from that.He also never played town me. (Besides, SB would have convinced me to convince the rest fo the team to fear kill you purely for your mentor if I was scum.)

Second line is fine, but then your initial phrasing was pretty missleading.

33 minutes ago, Fable said:

Can we talk about Evan shading me for the sake of it? He made a point of me describing the votes on Satsuma negatively but there was literally no point to do doing that. He made no conclusions. 

The shading is bad, but it reminds me of my previous game with Evan (where he was town). His cases don't seem that bad, although some are missinformed (you trying to cw Evan when Mak had more votes is odd, but you did indeed suspect his earlier).

It's like... his posts are bad, but they're better then last game, so I'm not really scumreading him for it?

29 minutes ago, Fable said:

Not thrilled with " Fable case is easy so I didn't have to put a lot of effort into it " from Bartozio. Almost feels TWTBAW though cuz it's almost admitting that you're pushing lhf for the sake of it.  Would think a wolf be more cautious about admitting that. 

It makes no sense to me to not lynch people who I feel are obvious scum, just because it seems too obvious. Not every scum player is a good one, some are just easier to catch.

[Makaze]

Evan and Bart are never w/w

I believe lynching Evan clears the PoE significantly, and I don't think what he is doing is solving, including how he replied to that ISO read

Evan > Fable / Bart > Zeonth

And we have a three way tie, which should be fun, who is switching?

[EvanManManMan]

2 minutes ago, Makaze said:

Evan and Bart are never w/w

I believe lynching Evan clears the PoE significantly, and I don't think what he is doing is solving, including how he replied to that ISO read

Evan > Fable / Bart > Zeonth

And we have a three way tie, which should be fun, who is switching?

How am I not solving? I don't see a problem with how I read Bart's ISO. I didn't find it to be that scummy. I don't care if you disagree that's my read. And now after one post I'm suddenly your top scum? Lol

[Makaze]

Just now, EvanManManMan said:

How am I not solving? I don't see a problem with how I read Bart's ISO. I didn't find it to be that scummy. I don't care if you disagree that's my read. And now after one post I'm suddenly your top scum? Lol

You've been floating there for a little while, but yeah, these questions aren't going anywhere.

The right question is "How are you solving?"

[Makaze]

4 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

I get missinterpreted and misslynched basicly every game I play, so I think I have reasons to double check what I read.

And even if I didn't, it's mostly a habbit anyway.

Your mentor played one game with me, where he subbed in at a point where I was hard flaking. I'm honestly amazed if he thinks he can derive my general playstyle from that.He also never played town me. (Besides, SB would have convinced me to convince the rest fo the team to fear kill you purely for your mentor if I was scum.)

Second line is fine, but then your initial phrasing was pretty missleading.

The shading is bad, but it reminds me of my previous game with Evan (where he was town). His cases don't seem that bad, although some are missinformed (you trying to cw Evan when Mak had more votes is odd, but you did indeed suspect his earlier).

It's like... his posts are bad, but they're better then last game, so I'm not really scumreading him for it?

It makes no sense to me to not lynch people who I feel are obvious scum, just because it seems too obvious. Not every scum player is a good one, some are just easier to catch.

I'm really liking how you're responding to my case, and I don't think you make sense with my other scum reads, so you have moved down.

But, lines like this "It's like... his posts are bad, but they're better then last game, so I'm not really scumreading him for it?" ping me really bad, and make me doubt my never w/w statement.

You are the most likely lynch today. Evan has to be aware of that. What do you think of Evan's passive town read on you in light of how people have you as their top read?