Is Leon really narcissistic? (super-minor Echoes spoilers)

[coldhand25]

Okay, so I was looking trough some character descriptions in Heroes out of boredom, and I found this at Leon:

Spoiler

So, it says he is narcissistic, which I found kinda strange, since I don't remember him acting like he was at all, so I took a look into this stuff. (I've spent more time then I should've to prove my point, and I will try to make this post as comprehensive as I can, even if it means it's going to be unnecessarily long) So, I'm pretty sure he is NOT narcissistic, because:

First of all, what does being narcissistic means? Narcissism is the pursuit of gratification from vanity or egotistic admiration of one's own attributes. - wikipedia

Looking trough his quotes, he does have some that indicates that he sees himself perfect, or at least better than others.

Spoiler

Echoes:

• "It's unfair how good I am."
• "Somebody's eager."

Heroes:

• "My, my, there are quite a number of handsome devils here. But none so handsome as myself, it seems."
• "Is it really so terrible to be this stylish?"
• "Is there no one who can best me?"
• "Oh, my, I have been made stronger? Why, sometimes I even startle myself!"

As you can see, in Heroes he has quite a few quotes in which he puts himself above the others, while in Echoes the quotes are from when he defeats an enemy. Imo he acts out of character in Heroes a bit, but everyone can decide for themselves, as I'm not yet finished.

Okay, so we've seen his "narcissistc" quotes, let's see the others:

Spoiler

Echoes:

• "Well, aren't you nice?" - being healed
• "I'm actually kinda impressed." - nearby ally defeats an enemy
• "I'm sorry I couldn't do more..." - ally dies

Heroes:

• "Hmm, you're looking a bit pale... Fatigue is the sworn enemy of beauty, so get some rest."
• "Valbar lost his family to a band of pirates. His cause is my own, and that includes his revenge."
• "Hello, Summoner! I've prepared some tea. Would you care to join me? I must admit, I was anxious when you first summoned me here. Ugh, don't laugh—it's rude! I may not look worried, but I have my fair share of concern, same as anyone else. Anyway, you've proven yourself more than capable, so I suppose I don't mind sticking around. To be honest, I am eager to return home... But that can wait, I think... Care for another cup?"

So, what do we have here... In Echoes he impresses his gratitude and him being impressed towards others, which a narcissist rarely ever does. And then, there is the most important thing: he feels sorry towards others, and blames himself for their death. True narcissists would never-ever blame themselves for anything. Like really, even if it's their fault, they would find a way to make it look like it isn't their fault. And here he is, blaming himself for something that's hardly his fault. But it doesn't stop here. In Heroes, in his lvl 40 quote he admits his anxiety, and as we know, a narcissist wouldn't admit his flaws to anyone, except if they would be in a beneficial situation by doing so. He clearly has no benefit coming from this.

Now, there is also something really-really important. He loves Valbar. He honestly loves Valbar. He feels empathy towards him, he feels the pain of him losing his family, and he wants to help him. He is willing to do anything for Valbar, and is always concerned for him:

Spoiler

"Don't wait to heal that up." (If Valbar's at low health.)

Also, he often compliments Valbar when he kills an enemy and stuff.

Now, why is this empathy so important? Because narcissistc people are not capable of feeling empathy towards others. They don't love the other, they love the feeling that others love them. They love themselves for being loved by others. And what do we have here? His unrequited love towards Valbar is not something a narcissist would be able to accept. He would either try to get Valbar to fall in love with him (which is kinda impossible given how Valbar feels), or turn Valbar's life into a living hell, by any means necessary (lying to others about him, emotionally blackmailing him, etc.) Given how Leon acts throughout the game, he doesn't look like someone who would do that. Also, he doesn't think of Valbar as a supply, he loves him, and thinks that he is perfect, with which he almost admits him not being perfect, seeing how different they are.

So, umm, yeah, I guess this is all I wanted to say. The point of this whole thing is, I just wanted to show how heis not a narcissist, and how being a narcissist is not a positive trait, rather a negative one. Also, I hope I didn't offend anyone by saying all this. It was just kinda bothering to me to see how often narcissism is misused, and misunderstood. If anyone has anything to add, or anyone thinks I'm wrong, well, feel free to discuss here.

Edited June 19, 2018 by coldhand25
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[eclipse]

May I suggest reading his support with Kamui?

[coldhand25]

1 minute ago, eclipse said:

May I suggest reading his support with Kamui?

I was thinking about if acting like this would make him a narcissist, but the since his emotional level is pretty developed, as is his worry for others, I ultimately came to believe it's just to express how he doesn't really care about Kamui. That doesn't mean he is narcissistic,there are poeple who I know, but doesn't care that much about. We never really learn anything about his background with Kamui, do we? These conversations are kind of there for fun imho, not for character developement. Though it is a good point, he acts pretty egoistic there, I think he wouldn't refuse to gain another supply, was he a true narcissist.

[eclipse]

11 minutes ago, coldhand25 said:

I was thinking about if acting like this would make him a narcissist, but the since his emotional level is pretty developed, as is his worry for others, I ultimately came to believe it's just to express how he doesn't really care about Kamui. That doesn't mean he is narcissistic,there are poeple who I know, but doesn't care that much about. We never really learn anything about his background with Kamui, do we? These conversations are kind of there for fun imho, not for character developement. Though it is a good point, he acts pretty egoistic there, I think he wouldn't refuse to gain another supply, was he a true narcissist.

The reason why I brought it up is because Leon makes the conversation about him, rather than whatever Kamui wanted to talk about way back in the C support.

With the low amount of supports in Echoes, I think every single one of them has something to say about the characters.  In this case, Leon's definitely self-centered.  "Narcissistic" in this case may be referring to that, as opposed to the actual mental disorder.

[coldhand25]

1 minute ago, eclipse said:

The reason why I brought it up is because Leon makes the conversation about him, rather than whatever Kamui wanted to talk about way back in the C support.

With the low amount of supports in Echoes, I think every single one of them has something to say about the characters.  In this case, Leon's definitely self-centered.  "Narcissistic" in this case may be referring to that, as opposed to the actual mental disorder.

You are right, I instantly thought about the disorder. In this case it's true, as he is clearly self-centered, but I still think calling it narcissism is a bit inaccurate.

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

Narcissism doesn't necessarily mean narcissistic personality disorder. You can be a narcissist and be capable of empathy, it's really just an extreme sense of importance of self.

Either way, people love the character and he has some good traits :)

[coldhand25]

2 hours ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

Narcissism doesn't necessarily mean narcissistic personality disorder. You can be a narcissist and be capable of empathy, it's really just an extreme sense of importance of self.

Either way, people love the character and he has some good traits :)

Oh, don't get me wrong, Leon is my favourite male character from Echoes, and one of my all-time favourites from the whole series. It's just that, I found it unfitting to call him narcissistic, but now it's clear what they probably meant by that.

[bottlegnomes]

Going to echo the other sentiments here. He definitely has an inflated sense of self-importance. Also, I'd put the "I'm actually kinda impressed" line in favor of him being narcissistic. Given how he says it, both VA and wording, he's basically saying that he's surprised that someone else could do anything even remotely impressive, which is implying that he's the only one capable of being impressive in his own mind.

[redlight]

His narcissism might come from him trying to prove his skills to his bullies in contests

Edited June 19, 2018 by silveraura25

[SuperDK]

Based on the quotes that I have read on this page on would say that Leon has some narcissistic qualities to him. It would also not be out of ordinary to call a person with qualities like his a narcissist. However, I will say that he probably is not a narcissist and is probably hiding some things behind his narcissism. I also think that Heroes does tend to blow certain character traits out of proportion and make some people a little one-dimensional, but with as many units as it has it is slightly understandable. 

[Landmaster]

Yeah, in a sense he is rather narcissistic~ Still love him, tho~