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If Chrom is In As An EchoFighter, What's Going to Happen to Robin's Final Smash?


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29 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

There was a list of changes to the fighters during the direct though. Changes like updated Final Smashes. Now of all the characters to get a changed Final Smash, Robin wasn't one of them. Therefore, using basic logic skills, we can deduce that Robin's Final Smash hasn't changed at all from what it was originally.

Or it could be that Sakurai didn't want to reveal too many character or Echoes at once and is leaving both Chrom and Robin's hypothetical new Final Smash for a later reveal.

Saying outright that Robin got a new FS would hint very strongly at Chrom's inclusion, and I doubt Sakurai would want to potentially give away a reveal like that.

That said, I am not saying that's what I believe. I find the scenario you give to be the most likely, and Robin's FS isn't changed at all. But at this stage we have no way of knowing. And since we don't know, we speculate! Speculating is fun, if you don't take it too seriously.

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I don't see why Chrom and Lucina weren't alternates for the same slot. I get that Chrom's muscular and apparently being a Lord with muscle = Ike, but Lucina is said to have learned her fighting style from her father, and she's using literally the same sword, so it would make sense if they had the same moves. Of course, by that logic, they should both have been alternates of Marth. And even if Chrom didn't qualify as a Marth alternate, he could have just qualified as an Ike alternate.

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21 minutes ago, Captain Karnage said:

don't you think they'd want to give us a surprise at somepoint

I'm pretty sure we haven't seen all of the characters yet

That still doesn't mean that Chrom has a likely shot at getting into Smash, even as an Echo Fighter.

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1 hour ago, Motendra said:

Ah,but it was. In the very interview addressing why he wasn't. I'm on mobile now and don't have it on me, but the general idea, to my memory, was that even though they could have made a moveset for him, he wouldn't stand out when compared to the rest of the swords cast, which is where the "just another sword" thing comes from. 

Palutena& Viridi trolled 'em so hard that peeps actually went with their interpretation it seems lmao

I'll verify this with the actual interview in question for you when I get home

I don't exactly remember that-- I only recall Sakurai's Famitsu column right after Robin and Lucina's reveal where he said that Chrom was considered early on but ultimately removed due to being too similar to Ike.

I'll be interested to see if the weapon choice bit is as stressed as you claim it was.

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54 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

I don't exactly remember that-- I only recall Sakurai's Famitsu column right after Robin and Lucina's reveal where he said that Chrom was considered early on but ultimately removed due to being too similar to Ike.

I'll be interested to see if the weapon choice bit is as stressed as you claim it was.

Here it is:

Quote

“I played all the way through FE:A and really wanted to include a character from that rich cast in Smash Bros. Naturally, I considered adding Chrom to the roster, but the decision wasn’t easy by any means.”

“At the end of the day, Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder like Marth and Ike. Compared with other characters, he lacks any unique characteristics.

Perhaps, my slapdash explanation might have embellished it a little for you, but they were his exact words

Much as I'd still like for Chrom myself, at this point it's too-little-too-late for him. Still has the best cameo ever though

Edited by Motendra
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3 hours ago, NinjaMonkey said:

There was a list of changes to the fighters during the direct though. Changes like updated Final Smashes. Now of all the characters to get a changed Final Smash, Robin wasn't one of them. Therefore, using basic logic skills, we can deduce that Robin's Final Smash hasn't changed at all from what it was originally.

coming back to this, just watched the direct again, they made no mention to Link's missing hookshot, or that his smash attacks are ranged when he's at 0 damage

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4 hours ago, NinjaMonkey said:

There was a list of changes to the fighters during the direct though. Changes like updated Final Smashes. Now of all the characters to get a changed Final Smash, Robin wasn't one of them. Therefore, using basic logic skills, we can deduce that Robin's Final Smash hasn't changed at all from what it was originally.

Except "individual changes number in the thousands".

By that logic, Peach won't get a new final smash because they didn't directly touch upon it. Nothing was brought up about Snake being changed... but he's got several new attacks and a different Final Smash.

The Direct failed to mention that Cloud's limit charge goes away after 15 seconds, or that both his range and power have been toned down. It talked abou Marth's Dancing Blade bein faster and played it off like a buff-- but with slower start-up, greater endlag, and lower damage it's actually a nerf. 

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1 hour ago, Captain Karnage said:

coming back to this, just watched the direct again, they made no mention to Link's missing hookshot, or that his smash attacks are ranged when he's at 0 damage

Those show up in the Treehouse gameplay videos.

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2 hours ago, Dai said:

Those show up in the Treehouse gameplay videos.

Yes but they made no direct mention to them in the information blips on characters in the little "what we changed" segment. 

Which is just strange, but also led us to pay super attention to every character.

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1 minute ago, Jedi said:

Yes but they made no direct mention to them in the information blips on characters in the little "what we changed" segment. 

Which is just strange, but also led us to pay super attention to every character.

Imagine if they did show all the changes in the direct, though. Personally, I like that they didn't. Gives us more surprises down the road.

am glad, however, that they told us literally everyone was coming back, and showed proof straight off the bat. If they had done otherwise, I think there would have been an even saltier outcry about who might not have come back, or, had they said that without showing proof, people would have expected someone to get cut anyway and for Nintendo to have to backpedal.

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12 hours ago, Dai said:

Imagine if they did show all the changes in the direct, though. Personally, I like that they didn't. Gives us more surprises down the road.

am glad, however, that they told us literally everyone was coming back, and showed proof straight off the bat. If they had done otherwise, I think there would have been an even saltier outcry about who might not have come back, or, had they said that without showing proof, people would have expected someone to get cut anyway and for Nintendo to have to backpedal.

I think that if they showed off everything in the direct, it could have broken well over an hour.

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So, Lucina was chosen over Chrom because she's the first female sword user. 

I think the Ike simlarities go further than just muscle, since both fight with heavy handed and rough sword styles that have a bunch of flips... So, between having Chrom as an Ike clone. or Lucina as a Marth clone, I'd go with Lucina, too.

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On 6/19/2018 at 7:11 PM, NinjaMonkey said:

There was a list of changes to the fighters during the direct though. Changes like updated Final Smashes. Now of all the characters to get a changed Final Smash, Robin wasn't one of them. Therefore, using basic logic skills, we can deduce that Robin's Final Smash hasn't changed at all from what it was originally.

Sorry, but it's very likely that not every change was revealed. For one thing, Marth got an English VA, yet Roy hasn't been revealed to have one yet (and Ray Chase, Roy's VA, really likes the character, so I wouldn't be surprised if he lands the role). However, while Marth's playable in the demo, Roy is not. This may suggest Roy is getting new VA work, but recording hasn't finalized yet. Similarly, Robin is not available at all in the demo (and fellow avatar character Corrin was, so do with that what you will), and I find it odd that he's not available. He's already got a quick Final Smash, so there's a good possibility Chrom was taken out for whatever reason and maybe implemented as an Echo fighter behind the scenes, waiting to be revealed.

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There are definitely Final Smashes that are getting changed we don't know about yet. Sakurai did state that Transformation Final Smashes with buffed regular moves were gone, yet we haven't seen Lucario's FS, which was his Mega Form in Smash 4. For him they either they go back to Aura Storm from Brawl (which I doubt) or he gets a brand new one, but Mega Lucario as we know it is gone (although they might keep it but give Lucario a set cutscene combo, like they did with Wario-Man).

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 6/20/2018 at 3:31 PM, Altrosa said:

So, Lucina was chosen over Chrom because she's the first female sword user. 

I think the Ike simlarities go further than just muscle, since both fight with heavy handed and rough sword styles that have a bunch of flips... So, between having Chrom as an Ike clone. or Lucina as a Marth clone, I'd go with Lucina, too.

I think I've said this a million times, but I still think Lucina should've been an Ike clone instead of Marth. She's taught by Chrom, who fights rough like Ike. If you take away the sword toss in Aether, it looks a lot like that spinning move Lucina uses when she's fighting Chrom in the cutscene, and Ike's quickdraw looks very similar to Awakening's skill procs, which could easily suit Lucina. Most importantly though, a quick, weak Ike would have been a much more worthwhile addition than Marth minus his staple mechanic. Outside of her physical appearance, fake name, and the name of her weapon, Lucina shares no similarities with Marth, most notably fighting style.

It really isn't worth whining over, but I can't help but bring it up any time Lucina in SSB4 comes up.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've seen more than my share of requesting Grima being Robin's new final smash.

 

If anything else, I would be more upset with Chrom being an echo of Ike since that would mean Sakurai & his team wouldn't have more idea on future reps for Fire Emblem.

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On 6/19/2018 at 6:38 PM, Robert of Normandy said:

It's a new official designation for some clone characters. So far the only confirmed Echoes are Dark Pit, Lucina, and Daisy. 

The exact line between an Echo and a "regular" clone aren't clear, but it seems that Echoes aren't being counted as separate characters in the roster. Exactly what that means I'm not sure, as I don't believe any of the Echoes have been playable at any of the demos yet.

In the bit about the starting roster, Lucina has her own portrait as well as Marth. Odds are they will all be separate.

On 6/19/2018 at 7:11 PM, NinjaMonkey said:

There was a list of changes to the fighters during the direct though. Changes like updated Final Smashes. Now of all the characters to get a changed Final Smash, Robin wasn't one of them. Therefore, using basic logic skills, we can deduce that Robin's Final Smash hasn't changed at all from what it was originally.

That's some flawed logic.

On 6/19/2018 at 11:16 PM, The DanMan said:

The Direct failed to mention that Cloud's limit charge goes away after 15 seconds, or that both his range and power have been toned down. It talked abou Marth's Dancing Blade bein faster and played it off like a buff-- but with slower start-up, greater endlag, and lower damage it's actually a nerf. 

I've read that overall, Dancing Blade is still better.

On 7/4/2018 at 6:48 AM, Cornguy said:

I think I've said this a million times, but I still think Lucina should've been an Ike clone instead of Marth. She's taught by Chrom, who fights rough like Ike. If you take away the sword toss in Aether, it looks a lot like that spinning move Lucina uses when she's fighting Chrom in the cutscene, and Ike's quickdraw looks very similar to Awakening's skill procs, which could easily suit Lucina. Most importantly though, a quick, weak Ike would have been a much more worthwhile addition than Marth minus his staple mechanic. Outside of her physical appearance, fake name, and the name of her weapon, Lucina shares no similarities with Marth, most notably fighting style.

It really isn't worth whining over, but I can't help but bring it up any time Lucina in SSB4 comes up.

At this point, even her idle stance would be welcome, but apparently even that's too much to ask for. 

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On 7/16/2018 at 5:28 AM, Zangetsu said:

I've seen more than my share of requesting Grima being Robin's new final smash.

 

If anything else, I would be more upset with Chrom being an echo of Ike since that would mean Sakurai & his team wouldn't have more idea on future reps for Fire Emblem.

What do you mean they wouldn't have more ideas? If you're saying that like it's a sign of running out of ideas for FE movesets, I disagree; the reason for Chrom being an Echo fighter would probably be because Echo fighters are simply faster to create than a fighter with a new moveset. That, and the potential (if they act upon it) for axe/lance/pure dragon/pure magic/bow FE reps is likely irrelevant to making movesets for sword users.

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On 7/17/2018 at 12:32 PM, NoirCore said:

What do you mean they wouldn't have more ideas? If you're saying that like it's a sign of running out of ideas for FE movesets, I disagree; the reason for Chrom being an Echo fighter would probably be because Echo fighters are simply faster to create than a fighter with a new moveset. That, and the potential (if they act upon it) for axe/lance/pure dragon/pure magic/bow FE reps is likely irrelevant to making movesets for sword users.

Because Sakurai's history with Fire Emblem has been less than stellar. I don't mean that in a dramatic way but there's a lot of mistakes when it come to how Fire Emblem got repped. If there's that how Chrom becomes playable so be it, but I rather not have Chrom be know as Ike's clone when there's plenty difference between them.

Edited by Zangetsu
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/18/2018 at 1:35 AM, Zangetsu said:

Because Sakurai's history with Fire Emblem has been less than stellar. I don't mean that in dramatic way but there's a lot of mistakes when it come to how the Fire Emblem got rep. If there's that how Chrom becomes playable so be it, but I rather not have Chrom be know as Ike's clone when there's plenty difference them.

Remember when Ike's fire was orange? That bugged me so much. I was kind of glad they didn't use Ike's Ranger idle stance, but the one they used managed to also be weird in it's own way.

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4 hours ago, Cornguy said:

Remember when Ike's fire was orange? That bugged me so much. I was kind of glad they didn't use Ike's Ranger idle stance, but the one they used managed to also be weird in it's own way.

I wasn't a Fire Emblem fan back then, but looking back. GOD ALMIGHTY!

Ike looked so damn awkward in Brawl. This teenager walking & moving like a slug was just so off.

 

While I'm at it, it's getting annoying how half the FE roster is portray inaccurately. Ike manage to look better for it (& Smash Bros in general just did wonders for him) but Lucina & Roy didn't. It's tiring to hear how Roy is just "Fire Marth" & Lucina being "Marth but actually a girl". Which is why I'm adamant on Chrom being Ike's echo fighter. I really don't need to hear Chrom being Ike's lost relative, especially when that's Priam's main gimmick.

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1 hour ago, Zangetsu said:

I wasn't a Fire Emblem fan back then, but looking back. GOD ALMIGHTY!

Ike looked so damn awkward in Brawl. This teenager walking & moving like a slug was just so off.

 

While I'm at it, it's getting annoying how half the FE roster is portray inaccurately. Ike manage to look better for it (& Smash Bros in general just did wonders for him) but Lucina & Roy didn't. It's tiring to hear how Roy is just "Fire Marth" & Lucina being "Marth but actually a girl". Which is why I'm adamant on Chrom being Ike's echo fighter. I really don't need to hear Chrom being Ike's lost relative, especially when that's Priam's main gimmick.

To be honest, Marth is a bit off as is, and it's kind of just trickled down to Roy. Not counting his cameos in the 3DS games, ALL of Marth's battle animations are stabs rather than slashes, as is Roy's non-SoS animation. Yet in Melee, his only stabbing move was one of four options of Dancing Blade, out of what, 9 options? Not a single move Marth has looks anything like any of his battle animations. Even his post-Brawl Shield Breaker doesn't quite resemble any of his attacks. As a result, Roy's moves also look very little like his animations.

However, since Roy's moveset has been touched up, his f-smash at least looks vaguely similar to the SoS animation, and his counter unlike Marth's at least has some relevance to his animations in FE6. I complained about Lucina already, tldr Ike's moves look way more like 3DS animations than Marth's.

It only applies to Marth and Roy right now, but post 3D FE doesn't have much to work off moveset wise. But if the characters have literally two animations each, it shouldn't be that difficult to at least make them central moves, let alone moves at all.

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42 minutes ago, Cornguy said:

To be honest, Marth is a bit off as is, and it's kind of just trickled down to Roy. Not counting his cameos in the 3DS games, ALL of Marth's battle animations are stabs rather than slashes, as is Roy's non-SoS animation. Yet in Melee, his only stabbing move was one of four options of Dancing Blade, out of what, 9 options? Not a single move Marth has looks anything like any of his battle animations. Even his post-Brawl Shield Breaker doesn't quite resemble any of his attacks. As a result, Roy's moves also look very little like his animations.

Fair enough. I would argue that just stabbing would get kind of dull, but than I remember Raphael from Soul Calibur & Charlotte from Samurai Showdown.

 

 

43 minutes ago, Cornguy said:

However, since Roy's moveset has been touched up, his f-smash at least looks vaguely similar to the SoS animation, and his counter unlike Marth's at least has some relevance to his animations in FE6. I complained about Lucina already, tldr Ike's moves look way more like 3DS animations than Marth's.

It only applies to Marth and Roy right now, but post 3D FE doesn't have much to work off moveset wise. But if the characters have literally two animations each, it shouldn't be that difficult to at least make them central moves, let alone moves at all.

I have to be realistic, I don't expect Sakurai & his team be that faithful to the source. I can only expect so much to begin with. But then I look Corrin's moves & be baffle on how faithful it is & ask why couldn't guys like Roy looked that good?

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